Gary Capps: 00:00:00

to be completely honest, I do not like doing sales calls.

Gary Capps: 00:00:03

I know you are kinda like that too,

Vit Muller: 00:00:04

And also you've got a product that pretty much sell itself.

Gary Capps: 00:00:06

If you're expecting someone else to hire someone else

Gary Capps: 00:00:08

to solve your problems, a lot of the time that isn't gonna work out

Vit Muller: 00:00:12

there's nobody gonna be more invested than

Vit Muller: 00:00:13

you, the owner of the business.

Gary Capps: 00:00:15

So I believe that you need to be in the trenches in all those areas

Vit Muller: 00:00:18

How do you do it?

Gary Capps: 00:00:19

but having a full SOP of A to Z also reduces your

Gary Capps: 00:00:24

team members' ability to think.

Gary Capps: 00:00:25

And you do want people that can think a bit,

Vit Muller: 00:00:27

a good point.

Vit Muller: 00:00:28

With your product, makes perfect sense.

Vit Muller: 00:00:29

Go where the market is.

Vit Muller: 00:00:31

Highly saturated.

Gary Capps: 00:00:32

I really see it that people are Wanting to have a human connection.

Gary Capps: 00:00:35

go to these events, talk to people, shake a hand, see a real person.

Vit Muller: 00:00:39

when did you start your podcast?

Gary Capps: 00:00:40

We started SaaS Dads, podcast, which you are coming on soon.

Gary Capps: 00:00:43

I was doing a podcast once with Bryce.

Gary Capps: 00:00:45

we started talking about that, what the sacrifices that you make across your

Gary Capps: 00:00:48

family, between your kids and your wife.

Gary Capps: 00:00:51

I want to have more chats like that with people

Vit Muller: 00:00:53

I think it's important for mental health as well,

Vit Muller: 00:00:55

having those conversations,

Gary Capps: 00:00:57

Yeah, absolutely.

Gary Capps: 00:00:57

there's not one person that I've spoken to who hasn't had massive problems

Gary Capps: 00:01:01

on the way at some point or another,

Vit Muller: 00:01:06

Hello everybody.

Vit Muller: 00:01:07

Welcome to another episode on the High Level Experience Podcast.

Vit Muller: 00:01:10

today's guest is back for his third appearance, and, a lot has changed.

Vit Muller: 00:01:15

Gary Capps, he's the founder of myCRMSIM, one of the fastest growing tools in the

Vit Muller: 00:01:20

high level ecosystem now used by over 600 agencies and powering tens of millions of

Vit Muller: 00:01:24

messages across SMS WhatsApp and iMessage.

Vit Muller: 00:01:28

But what's more interesting is the journey behind it from engineering to

Vit Muller: 00:01:33

running a digital agency for over 20 years, to building a product out of pure

Vit Muller: 00:01:37

frustration, with the system he was using.

Vit Muller: 00:01:40

Gary, welcome back.

Gary Capps: 00:01:47

Thanks man.

Gary Capps: 00:01:48

Good to be back.

Gary Capps: 00:01:48

I spoke to you for ages.

Vit Muller: 00:01:50

I know it has been.

Vit Muller: 00:01:51

Yeah, mate, last time we spoke, we went pretty deep into, myCRMSIM, the product

Vit Muller: 00:01:56

I've had you on two episodes already.

Vit Muller: 00:01:59

so I think today maybe we can just have a bit of a different spin on it.

Vit Muller: 00:02:03

and go back and unpack the journey behind it.

Vit Muller: 00:02:05

'cause I think, that's where the real goal is.

Gary Capps: 00:02:08

Sure, mate.

Gary Capps: 00:02:09

Far away.

Gary Capps: 00:02:10

we can dive into anything you want, mate.

Vit Muller: 00:02:13

So, 28th of July, 2024 is when I had you on this podcast the first time.

Vit Muller: 00:02:20

So it's been almost two years.

Vit Muller: 00:02:22

So before myCRMSIM, what did your world actually look like day to

Vit Muller: 00:02:28

day inside the agency that you had?

Gary Capps: 00:02:30

day to day, I mean, we were still at that stage, we

Gary Capps: 00:02:34

were trying to grow our SaaS.

Gary Capps: 00:02:35

That was a thing that we were kind of focused on.

Gary Capps: 00:02:38

we were trying to build the SaaS basically, and SMS was a big part

Gary Capps: 00:02:42

of that in what we were doing.

Gary Capps: 00:02:43

And we were doing a lot of database reactivations, and

Gary Capps: 00:02:46

managing stuff for clients.

Gary Capps: 00:02:47

And we were trying to build our own little USP things inside of high level, which we

Gary Capps: 00:02:51

built a bunch of estimation calculators, and that's what day-to-day looked like.

Gary Capps: 00:02:56

And a lot of sales calls, I would say during that time as well.

Gary Capps: 00:02:59

particularly around the estimate calculators that we were building for

Gary Capps: 00:03:02

trade services, which were really cool.

Gary Capps: 00:03:04

awesome product.

Gary Capps: 00:03:05

We still have some clients that use them, and they were away for people

Gary Capps: 00:03:08

to come onto a website and they're looking for a quote for something.

Gary Capps: 00:03:11

They could just come onto a website and they could get an estimate.

Gary Capps: 00:03:13

And there's a difference between an estimate and a quote.

Gary Capps: 00:03:15

'cause the quote is, here's the price to do the job.

Gary Capps: 00:03:17

An estimate is a, here's what it will roughly cost to do the job, but we

Gary Capps: 00:03:20

need to come and give you a quote.

Gary Capps: 00:03:22

So we built all these online estimation tools for a bunch of different

Gary Capps: 00:03:25

verticals where people could go to the trade services website and I'll

Gary Capps: 00:03:29

give Roofing as the example and say, Hey, I need a new roof for my house.

Gary Capps: 00:03:34

How much is that gonna be?

Gary Capps: 00:03:35

And then you could go there and say, Hey, what type of roof do you want?

Gary Capps: 00:03:37

And just answer some basic questions.

Gary Capps: 00:03:39

The type of roof, how big is it?

Gary Capps: 00:03:41

has it got solar panels on it?

Gary Capps: 00:03:42

A few other things as well to qualify.

Gary Capps: 00:03:44

And then it say, Hey look, based on the information you've given us,

Gary Capps: 00:03:46

that will be around about $20,000.

Gary Capps: 00:03:49

If you'd like an official quote, please let us know.

Gary Capps: 00:03:51

And then would go into the pipeline and follow up and so on and so forth.

Gary Capps: 00:03:54

So you basically were qualifying leads for trade services.

Gary Capps: 00:03:58

Awesome product.

Gary Capps: 00:04:00

really hard to sell.

Gary Capps: 00:04:01

Like I've done so many sales calls and it was in that trade services niche and.

Vit Muller: 00:04:06

How did you pitch it?

Gary Capps: 00:04:07

how we pitch it.

Gary Capps: 00:04:08

We were talking about how to increase their qualified leads from their

Gary Capps: 00:04:11

existing traffic from their website.

Gary Capps: 00:04:12

'cause they've got people who come to their website and they may or

Gary Capps: 00:04:15

may not fill in a contact us form.

Gary Capps: 00:04:16

We're like, look, we'll put this on here.

Gary Capps: 00:04:18

And we had stats 'cause we got clients and we knew that it increased their,

Gary Capps: 00:04:22

I can't give you the numbers now off the top of my head, but like we knew

Gary Capps: 00:04:24

that increased their conversions from website visitors by X amounts.

Gary Capps: 00:04:28

Where you said, look, we know that we'll increase your number

Gary Capps: 00:04:30

of conversions by this much.

Gary Capps: 00:04:32

you then got qualified leads, you know you're gonna save time 'cause

Gary Capps: 00:04:35

you're not going out and doing quotes on jobs that you know,

Gary Capps: 00:04:38

you're not even in the ballpark for.

Gary Capps: 00:04:39

'cause you might

Gary Capps: 00:04:39

go out and give someone a quote and say, Hey, it's $20,000.

Gary Capps: 00:04:42

And go, oh, I can't afford that.

Gary Capps: 00:04:43

You've already given them an estimate.

Gary Capps: 00:04:45

So you've got qualified leads.

Gary Capps: 00:04:46

And we've talked to the, talked to it through that.

Gary Capps: 00:04:48

And yeah, I think it's, trade services I think are just quite a hard.

Gary Capps: 00:04:52

A hard basket to fit into, especially in Australia.

Gary Capps: 00:04:54

Like we were doing this in Australia as

Gary Capps: 00:04:55

well.

Gary Capps: 00:04:56

And I think just trade services in Australia generally quite

Gary Capps: 00:04:59

challenging to bring into the, the digital age, shall we say.

Vit Muller: 00:05:02

So was that something you were trying to fix or

Vit Muller: 00:05:07

just tolerate at the time?

Gary Capps: 00:05:09

At the time, we were trying to figure out how do we

Gary Capps: 00:05:10

make them see the value in this?

Gary Capps: 00:05:12

'cause we'd sold a number and we knew the uptick in terms of like

Gary Capps: 00:05:17

qualification through a website.

Gary Capps: 00:05:18

We knew all that we could give them stats and we were just trying to figure out

Gary Capps: 00:05:22

and go, why don't people love this as much as we can tell them that it works?

Gary Capps: 00:05:26

And that was quite frustrating to be honest.

Gary Capps: 00:05:28

You know, it was quite a frustrating time kind of going through that.

Gary Capps: 00:05:30

You go on these calls and you know, people, you know,

Gary Capps: 00:05:32

we had lead magnets, we had

Gary Capps: 00:05:33

ads running, we were getting a good number of leads that would come in

Gary Capps: 00:05:36

based on what we were putting out there.

Gary Capps: 00:05:37

As in, you know, we can help you.

Gary Capps: 00:05:40

Double or triple your qualified leads through your existing website traffic.

Gary Capps: 00:05:43

And people were interested in that, but as soon as you told them what it was, they're

Gary Capps: 00:05:46

like, oh yeah, no, that sounds hard.

Gary Capps: 00:05:47

And we are worried in case we give them an estimate that they then say,

Gary Capps: 00:05:52

oh, but you've told me it's gonna cost this much and now you come

Gary Capps: 00:05:54

out and quote me a different price.

Gary Capps: 00:05:55

We're like, yeah, no, but that's the difference between

Gary Capps: 00:05:57

an estimate and a quote.

Gary Capps: 00:05:58

We just end up in all these sales conversations with trades that didn't

Gary Capps: 00:06:01

even seem to understand the difference between an estimate and a quote.

Gary Capps: 00:06:03

So yeah, that's the point.

Gary Capps: 00:06:04

you give them an estimate and then you go out and give them

Gary Capps: 00:06:06

a quote like you qualify it.

Gary Capps: 00:06:08

yeah, we were trying to figure that out and it was challenging.

Gary Capps: 00:06:10

We were doing a lot of database reactivations at the time as well, and

Gary Capps: 00:06:12

we built out a system for us to do that.

Gary Capps: 00:06:14

'cause that was our own personal challenge with using Twilio and SMS services here.

Gary Capps: 00:06:19

so yeah, that's what, that's where we're at.

Gary Capps: 00:06:20

And also we had quite a number of, digital clients as well in that time as well for

Gary Capps: 00:06:25

SEO and just basic SEO, Facebook ads, Google Ads, that kind of stuff as well.

Gary Capps: 00:06:30

So managing that, juggling traditional agency life of.

Gary Capps: 00:06:34

Doing all the things you know, that you're trying to do for your clients.

Gary Capps: 00:06:38

While we were trying to niche into this, estimation calculator

Gary Capps: 00:06:41

or series of estimation calculators that were built out.

Gary Capps: 00:06:43

'cause we could see that as a good niche for us to get into.

Gary Capps: 00:06:45

And at the same time we were juggling the traditional agency problems of

Gary Capps: 00:06:48

saying yes to everything, that doing too much and overdelivering and all those

Gary Capps: 00:06:52

kind of things for ads and websites and updating things on other things as well.

Vit Muller: 00:06:57

I think this is a good topic we can stick on for a bit, you know, go to

Vit Muller: 00:07:00

market and the best way to sell a product.

Vit Muller: 00:07:03

Did you actually end up figuring out the formula to get it

Vit Muller: 00:07:06

across, or did you just park it

Gary Capps: 00:07:08

We didn't end up figuring out the formula, to be honest

Gary Capps: 00:07:10

with you because we, we launched myCRMSIM and then that took off and

Gary Capps: 00:07:16

it just overtook everything else.

Gary Capps: 00:07:18

And it's where do we put our energy?

Gary Capps: 00:07:19

And it's we're gonna put it in the place that was going.

Gary Capps: 00:07:21

It was easier to sell at the end of the day ultimately.

Vit Muller: 00:07:25

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:07:25

Yeah, absolutely.

Vit Muller: 00:07:26

I mean, that's a smart thing to do if go where the market

Vit Muller: 00:07:28

is and where the money's at.

Vit Muller: 00:07:30

Right.

Vit Muller: 00:07:30

sounds though, like that project could have come to a solid fruit.

Vit Muller: 00:07:34

Like it sounds like a problem for solving.

Vit Muller: 00:07:38

Do you know what I mean?

Vit Muller: 00:07:39

Like

Gary Capps: 00:07:40

I think it is a problem worth solving.

Gary Capps: 00:07:41

It's changed now.

Gary Capps: 00:07:42

So the way that we were doing it was through forms,

Gary Capps: 00:07:45

you know, and we actually ended up, 'cause this was at the start of AI as well,

Gary Capps: 00:07:49

when we transitioned from doing that into SMS and we were starting to experiment

Gary Capps: 00:07:53

with just AI chatbots, that you would just tell it and say, I mean that would

Gary Capps: 00:07:58

ask the questions rather than a form.

Gary Capps: 00:08:00

'cause our system worked on forms

Gary Capps: 00:08:02

and it would have like specific questions.

Gary Capps: 00:08:04

You fill those in and then it would spit out a number at the end of that basically.

Gary Capps: 00:08:08

And we were changing that to start using AI chatbots to ask the question.

Gary Capps: 00:08:13

And I know that there are some people that have done that now anyway.

Gary Capps: 00:08:15

They've kind of built these sort of.

Gary Capps: 00:08:17

Estimation tools through AI chat bots.

Gary Capps: 00:08:19

And I could see that is where it was going and that's what we

Gary Capps: 00:08:21

started playing with as well.

Gary Capps: 00:08:22

So I think that's maybe an easier thing to do now.

Gary Capps: 00:08:27

you know, 'cause you can put it onto a website instantly.

Gary Capps: 00:08:30

You know, we had demos that we could show people, but now you can

Gary Capps: 00:08:33

roll out a quick AI instant demo.

Gary Capps: 00:08:35

but yeah, that, that was really where it was.

Gary Capps: 00:08:37

And you've only got so many hours in a day.

Gary Capps: 00:08:38

Right.

Gary Capps: 00:08:39

And I could either spend all my hours doing sales calls

Gary Capps: 00:08:42

'cause they were calls Yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:08:43

That I had to do.

Gary Capps: 00:08:45

'cause you know, it was a, it was more of a higher ticket type item for the sub cost

Gary Capps: 00:08:48

and putting it in, and then it was a lower ticket for running it down the track.

Gary Capps: 00:08:52

But they all required a one-on-one sales call.

Gary Capps: 00:08:55

and then.

Gary Capps: 00:08:56

the model shifted in terms of the product and everything that we were

Gary Capps: 00:08:58

doing 'cause of my sim and that didn't require the sales calls.

Gary Capps: 00:09:01

And to be completely honest, I do not like doing sales calls.

Gary Capps: 00:09:06

Right.

Gary Capps: 00:09:06

I think most of us in the high level space don't really like that.

Gary Capps: 00:09:10

We, we are kind of techie people and we're not the sales people.

Gary Capps: 00:09:13

And I know you are kinda like that too, but you, you kinda wanna show people

Gary Capps: 00:09:16

and you want 'em to be excited and they should understand the value in it.

Gary Capps: 00:09:19

And having to drag people across the line as a salesperson isn't

Gary Capps: 00:09:24

the thing that we are good at.

Gary Capps: 00:09:25

Alright.

Gary Capps: 00:09:25

Or I'm not good at it

Gary Capps: 00:09:26

personally, or I don't enjoy it.

Gary Capps: 00:09:28

Alright.

Gary Capps: 00:09:30

You know, there are people that are brilliant at it and they enjoy it and

Gary Capps: 00:09:32

they love it and that's their thing.

Gary Capps: 00:09:34

but I'm not one of those people.

Gary Capps: 00:09:35

I can do it, but I don't enjoy it.

Gary Capps: 00:09:37

So, and I don't wanna spend my time doing stuff that I don't enjoy

Gary Capps: 00:09:41

ultimately.

Vit Muller: 00:09:42

And also you've got a product that pretty much sell itself.

Vit Muller: 00:09:44

The proposition is pretty straightforward, reduce the cost of SMS.

Vit Muller: 00:09:48

so when you have a product like that, it makes, it, makes it ton of easier.

Vit Muller: 00:09:51

But if you didn't, who, what would you do?

Vit Muller: 00:09:53

Like, how would you solve it?

Vit Muller: 00:09:54

Do you hire somebody or?

Gary Capps: 00:09:55

To solve the problem of selling

Gary Capps: 00:09:57

those?

Gary Capps: 00:09:58

Yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:09:59

I mean, ultimately it would've gone down that path to the point where

Gary Capps: 00:10:02

it's same as any business, right?

Gary Capps: 00:10:04

We were kind of building the market with that and at that point couldn't

Gary Capps: 00:10:08

afford to hire a sales person to do it.

Gary Capps: 00:10:10

And you're still figuring out what is the sales script, what are the

Gary Capps: 00:10:12

ejections, what are this, what are that?

Gary Capps: 00:10:14

I think you have to put yourself in the front line no matter how much you hate it.

Gary Capps: 00:10:18

You have to put yourself in the front line, first of all, so

Gary Capps: 00:10:20

that you can actually hand that process over to a sales person.

Gary Capps: 00:10:23

I think that if you just hire a salesperson off the bat, unless you

Gary Capps: 00:10:26

get really lucky or you know, maybe you've got an amazing compensation

Gary Capps: 00:10:31

scheme for them, you know, or something.

Gary Capps: 00:10:33

Generally you're kind of handing over to someone that's not got that much of

Gary Capps: 00:10:36

a vested interest and they're just not gonna try as hard as you are anyway.

Gary Capps: 00:10:39

They're not gonna try to figure it out.

Gary Capps: 00:10:42

They would hit the barriers and the walls I was hitting just go,

Gary Capps: 00:10:44

oh, this is really hard to sell and probably move on to another job

Gary Capps: 00:10:47

and find something easier to sell.

Gary Capps: 00:10:48

Whereas if you go through the trouble and the effort and then you figure

Gary Capps: 00:10:52

it out and you go, okay, this is the formula to selling it, and then you

Gary Capps: 00:10:56

can hand it over to someone, you go, yep, this is what you need to do.

Gary Capps: 00:10:58

Then they can sell it and then it's easier for them.

Gary Capps: 00:11:00

Then they're gonna stick around.

Gary Capps: 00:11:01

They're gonna sell more.

Gary Capps: 00:11:02

If you're expecting someone else to hire someone else to solve your

Gary Capps: 00:11:05

problems, a lot of the time that isn't gonna work out a lot of the time.

Gary Capps: 00:11:09

Sometimes it is, but a lot of the time it's not.

Vit Muller: 00:11:11

there's nobody gonna be more invested than

Vit Muller: 00:11:13

you, the owner of the business.

Vit Muller: 00:11:15

Yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:11:15

no, and I think that of all aspects of whatever business it

Gary Capps: 00:11:18

is you are in and running and I know, you know, people say, oh, you need

Gary Capps: 00:11:22

to get yourself out of the weeds and hire it out and get VAs for this and

Gary Capps: 00:11:26

a VA for that, and a VA for that, and you shouldn't know everything.

Gary Capps: 00:11:28

Right?

Gary Capps: 00:11:28

And I agree with that, but.

Gary Capps: 00:11:31

You do need to understand everything that's going on in your business no

Gary Capps: 00:11:34

matter what it is that you're doing.

Gary Capps: 00:11:35

So you should be in the trenches, I believe, at every single level at

Gary Capps: 00:11:40

certain points, so you can understand at least how it all kind of works.

Gary Capps: 00:11:43

You don't have to be the expert in it, but you've gotta be able

Gary Capps: 00:11:46

to relate to the people that you're hiring in to do these jobs.

Gary Capps: 00:11:49

Otherwise you just have no idea what's going on.

Gary Capps: 00:11:51

You dunno whether they're doing a good job or a bad job, or they're just,

Gary Capps: 00:11:54

you know, grifting on you basically.

Gary Capps: 00:11:56

So I believe that you need to be in the trenches in all those areas

Gary Capps: 00:11:59

just to be able to figure it out until you can pass it on to someone.

Gary Capps: 00:12:02

You go, Hey, look, this is how it runs.

Gary Capps: 00:12:04

These are the things that I need to do.

Gary Capps: 00:12:05

These are the problems that I've had.

Gary Capps: 00:12:07

There's some other challenges here that I need you to solve, and

Gary Capps: 00:12:09

this is how I would approach 'em.

Gary Capps: 00:12:10

'cause of all the things I've learned here.

Gary Capps: 00:12:12

So I want you to go away and solve them.

Gary Capps: 00:12:13

And if you've got better ideas around it, that's awesome.

Gary Capps: 00:12:16

But yeah, I just think if you haven't been in the trenches, then how can you

Gary Capps: 00:12:20

really understand everything that you're just trying to outsource to everyone.

Vit Muller: 00:12:23

It's, yeah, I'm, that's actually the process that I always take,

Vit Muller: 00:12:28

is I try to do everything myself and figure it out to the very detail to make

Vit Muller: 00:12:32

sure that, A, I understand it, and b, by doing it myself, I can then look at what's

Vit Muller: 00:12:37

the most optimized way of doing it Once I figured it out, record and SOP chuck

Vit Muller: 00:12:43

it in the clickup, and then the assigning of tasks just becomes so much easier.

Vit Muller: 00:12:47

You're like, you don't have to, I'm curious how you run it, but

Vit Muller: 00:12:50

you don't have to, if you do it, say, the way I've done it is I've

Vit Muller: 00:12:54

got, Clickup tasks as templates.

Vit Muller: 00:12:57

I've got Clickup list, which has all the tasks in there.

Vit Muller: 00:13:00

So I've got literally a template of new stand out from the puck

Vit Muller: 00:13:04

customer signs up on, which is our white level of high level.

Vit Muller: 00:13:07

They sign up and it's like some of the things that's just same for everybody.

Vit Muller: 00:13:11

And what I've done is inside each task I put a reference link to the SOP, which

Vit Muller: 00:13:15

lives in a centralized documentation.

Vit Muller: 00:13:17

So it's just a Clickup doc with lots of pages, each page being a different SOP.

Vit Muller: 00:13:23

And I've got it referenced across all the different clients, all the

Vit Muller: 00:13:27

clients that have a similar tasks.

Vit Muller: 00:13:29

But if the SOP changes, I just go to the one doc.

Vit Muller: 00:13:32

But what's really cool about it is like you just ping a VA and just, you

Vit Muller: 00:13:37

know, just assign her to the task.

Vit Muller: 00:13:39

Before I would have to have like meetings, you know, Hey, can you jump on a meeting?

Vit Muller: 00:13:42

I need to show you something that I need you to do or, and

Vit Muller: 00:13:45

now it's just assign and then.

Vit Muller: 00:13:47

The only thing I do when I onboard VA is like I jump on a call

Vit Muller: 00:13:50

like, Hey, here's how we work.

Vit Muller: 00:13:51

Whenever we assign you to a task, you just go into the task and you'll have a

Vit Muller: 00:13:56

link that'll take you directly to an SOP.

Vit Muller: 00:13:58

You can just watch a video.

Vit Muller: 00:14:00

If you have any questions, reach out.

Vit Muller: 00:14:03

we'll get you unstuck.

Vit Muller: 00:14:04

But otherwise, pretty straightforward.

Vit Muller: 00:14:06

That's like what I've found, like works really well 'cause

Vit Muller: 00:14:09

it's like very efficient.

Vit Muller: 00:14:10

How do you do it?

Gary Capps: 00:14:11

Depends on the role and the person, because I think

Gary Capps: 00:14:16

SOPs are great, but having a full SOP of A to Z also reduces your

Gary Capps: 00:14:23

team members' ability to think.

Gary Capps: 00:14:25

And you do want people that can think a bit,

Gary Capps: 00:14:27

right?

Vit Muller: 00:14:27

a good point.

Vit Muller: 00:14:28

' Gary Capps: cause you know, if they just go, to really grow and scale, you need

Vit Muller: 00:14:32

people that can follow instructions, but also think for themself and realize

Vit Muller: 00:14:37

that, you know, they could expand or they can make things better, right?

Vit Muller: 00:14:39

you don't want them, you don't necessarily want 'em just following an SOP.

Vit Muller: 00:14:43

You want 'em to follow an SOP and then go, how could I improve it?

Vit Muller: 00:14:46

Or

Vit Muller: 00:14:46

what's wrong here?

Vit Muller: 00:14:47

What could I do better?

Vit Muller: 00:14:48

Right.

Vit Muller: 00:14:50

So, so we have SOPs.

Vit Muller: 00:14:52

Most of mine are just done in the form of a video.

Vit Muller: 00:14:54

Like I'll just do a video and then just kind of get, and then I'll just

Vit Muller: 00:14:57

turn that into an s So p like take the transcript, check that into chat.

Vit Muller: 00:15:00

GPT turns into a list.

Vit Muller: 00:15:01

Done.

Vit Muller: 00:15:02

that's a doc, right?

Vit Muller: 00:15:03

They change a lot though.

Vit Muller: 00:15:04

And that's one of the challenges like that we are having now.

Vit Muller: 00:15:07

We, me and you chat about this in the little DM group the other day,

Vit Muller: 00:15:10

right?

Vit Muller: 00:15:10

About changing software platforms for the sake, not for the sake of changing

Vit Muller: 00:15:14

platforms, but you see, there's something that might be a little bit better, but now

Vit Muller: 00:15:18

you've gotta change your whole process.

Vit Muller: 00:15:19

You've gotta teach the team this whole new process.

Vit Muller: 00:15:21

So do you want to change the, platform or the software or

Vit Muller: 00:15:24

whatever it is that you're using?

Vit Muller: 00:15:25

'cause it means a whole new training that you've now gotta figure out or get your

Vit Muller: 00:15:28

team to do and all those kind of things.

Vit Muller: 00:15:30

So I would say I'm a lot more fluid now than I was rigid before with SOPs.

Vit Muller: 00:15:36

a lot more fluid, the.

Vit Muller: 00:15:39

So we hired a customer success manager, a little while ago.

Vit Muller: 00:15:41

So he's just been four months now.

Vit Muller: 00:15:44

So four months now.

Vit Muller: 00:15:45

we have our, he's our dedicated customer success manager.

Vit Muller: 00:15:48

So that's an important role and he's gotta know a lot of stuff to be able

Vit Muller: 00:15:52

to be put in front of customers.

Vit Muller: 00:15:53

He runs onboardings, he can do group demos.

Vit Muller: 00:15:57

He's the frontline for support calls for clients.

Vit Muller: 00:16:00

He's the frontline for support tickets.

Vit Muller: 00:16:02

There's a lot that he needs to know, right?

Vit Muller: 00:16:04

So in terms of SOPs for him, we ran through training, we put stuff together.

Vit Muller: 00:16:09

So there are some trainings and here's how you log into the support ticket system.

Vit Muller: 00:16:12

If you ask for a ticket, this is the way that you should do it.

Vit Muller: 00:16:15

And if you need to escalate that to someone else, this is

Vit Muller: 00:16:18

what you need to do as well.

Vit Muller: 00:16:19

But through that whole period, and even now, right?

Vit Muller: 00:16:22

it's still four months on, right?

Vit Muller: 00:16:23

Even now, I would go through the tickets with him each day to start

Vit Muller: 00:16:28

with and I would just go, this is how I would answer this ticket.

Vit Muller: 00:16:31

'cause there's nuances.

Vit Muller: 00:16:32

Right.

Vit Muller: 00:16:33

So the way to reply to people, so I gave him the guide of log in here.

Vit Muller: 00:16:37

Here's how you answer a ticket.

Vit Muller: 00:16:39

But then the how to respond to a customer can be different.

Vit Muller: 00:16:43

And I'll give you a good example, right?

Vit Muller: 00:16:44

So there was one even today, right?

Vit Muller: 00:16:46

The only thing that comes to me now in our support ticket

Vit Muller: 00:16:48

system is for refunds, right?

Vit Muller: 00:16:51

Or something really serious.

Vit Muller: 00:16:53

If there's a real problem with someone, you know, they

Vit Muller: 00:16:55

need to escalate to me, right?

Vit Muller: 00:16:57

But pretty much it's refunds.

Vit Muller: 00:16:59

And the only reason they come to me is just so I can just

Vit Muller: 00:17:02

keep an eye on what's going on.

Vit Muller: 00:17:04

'cause if I suddenly see that, oh, we had a bunch of refunds in one day, I'm

Vit Muller: 00:17:06

like, what's actually happening here?

Vit Muller: 00:17:08

Right?

Vit Muller: 00:17:09

That doesn't really happen a lot, but I just feel like I need to keep

Vit Muller: 00:17:12

in touch with what's going on there.

Vit Muller: 00:17:13

I watch the sales and I need to just keep a. Gauge on refunds.

Vit Muller: 00:17:16

So that's what comes to me.

Vit Muller: 00:17:18

And we had one today that came in and a lady said that she'd been double charged.

Vit Muller: 00:17:23

So she wanted to get refunded for her double charge.

Vit Muller: 00:17:26

So, okay, so that got escalated to me, had a quick look through.

Vit Muller: 00:17:30

And what it actually was that she had, she'd been, it looked like

Vit Muller: 00:17:34

she'd been charged twice, but she actually had an account with us

Vit Muller: 00:17:37

last year, and then she canceled it

Vit Muller: 00:17:40

at the end of December last year.

Vit Muller: 00:17:42

Her bill was due at the beginning of December and her credit card had failed.

Vit Muller: 00:17:47

Alright?

Vit Muller: 00:17:48

So she never paid the bill.

Vit Muller: 00:17:50

She canceled it at the end of the month, and then she just resubscribed now.

Vit Muller: 00:17:54

So Stripe went, okay, cool, we'll bill you, 'cause you've

Vit Muller: 00:17:57

just set up a new account.

Vit Muller: 00:17:58

Oh, you've got an outstanding invoice from four months ago, we're gonna

Vit Muller: 00:18:03

charge you for that now as well.

Vit Muller: 00:18:05

that's cool.

Vit Muller: 00:18:05

I didn't know that Troub does that.

Vit Muller: 00:18:07

That's.

Gary Capps: 00:18:08

I didn't know that it would do that, but it did.

Gary Capps: 00:18:10

she got charged the day.

Gary Capps: 00:18:11

She signed up again four months later.

Gary Capps: 00:18:13

And she got charged for her outstanding invoice in December.

Gary Capps: 00:18:17

And funnily enough, that client, she'd actually put in this ticket

Gary Capps: 00:18:21

saying, Hey, I want a refund.

Gary Capps: 00:18:23

I've been charged twice.

Gary Capps: 00:18:24

And then she'd actually put in a ticket soon after saying,

Gary Capps: 00:18:28

Hey, this isn't working.

Gary Capps: 00:18:30

my SIM card just got blocked.

Gary Capps: 00:18:32

I want a refund completely.

Gary Capps: 00:18:33

I wanna cancel my account.

Gary Capps: 00:18:35

Right?

Gary Capps: 00:18:36

this has been escalated to me, 'cause it's refunds or else it comes to me.

Gary Capps: 00:18:39

I looked at that and I'd figured out the part about, okay, she's

Gary Capps: 00:18:42

been double charged because of this.

Gary Capps: 00:18:44

she hasn't actually been double charged.

Gary Capps: 00:18:45

She's been charged for an account and she owes us for an invoice from December.

Gary Capps: 00:18:48

Right?

Gary Capps: 00:18:49

and then there's a separate ticket who's saying, oh, my SIM card doesn't work.

Gary Capps: 00:18:52

I've been blocked.

Gary Capps: 00:18:53

I wanna cancel this.

Gary Capps: 00:18:54

So then I have a look at the account and go, okay, why is, why has this happened?

Gary Capps: 00:18:58

Right?

Gary Capps: 00:18:59

But yes, her sim card had been blocked, but she'd done exactly the thing

Gary Capps: 00:19:03

that we tell everybody I wanna sue.

Gary Capps: 00:19:04

And it's in our training that she'd blasted

Gary Capps: 00:19:07

out like a thousand text messages in five minutes, all exactly the

Gary Capps: 00:19:12

same text, saying, you know, Hey Tim, we've got this deal on X, y,

Gary Capps: 00:19:16

z. Click here to buy it with a link.

Gary Capps: 00:19:19

Right?

Gary Capps: 00:19:19

So of course our SIM card got blocked immediately.

Gary Capps: 00:19:22

So now we're in the situation of, I've got a customer who's thinks they've been

Gary Capps: 00:19:26

double charged, so they're demanding a refund for one double charge.

Gary Capps: 00:19:29

And then they're upset because they, this doesn't work because my SIM card

Gary Capps: 00:19:31

just got blocked and I'm annoyed.

Vit Muller: 00:19:33

I wonder what it is.

Vit Muller: 00:19:34

You know that people tend to sometimes not take any ownership of their own

Vit Muller: 00:19:38

actions and just project outward.

Gary Capps: 00:19:42

Exactly right.

Gary Capps: 00:19:43

So, you know, the system works.

Gary Capps: 00:19:46

You didn't follow the instructions, but now we have to manage that.

Gary Capps: 00:19:49

So

Gary Capps: 00:19:50

that's a situation.

Gary Capps: 00:19:51

It's I don't have an SOP for that.

Gary Capps: 00:19:52

How do you manage that?

Gary Capps: 00:19:53

Right?

Gary Capps: 00:19:54

That's a relationship thing.

Gary Capps: 00:19:55

Because

Gary Capps: 00:19:56

now I wanna manage that client and their expectations and say, Hey look, the system

Gary Capps: 00:20:00

actually works alright, so we'll refund you and we'll refund her if she wants.

Gary Capps: 00:20:04

that's perfectly fine.

Gary Capps: 00:20:05

We have a 30 day money back guarantee.

Gary Capps: 00:20:06

We'll refund people.

Gary Capps: 00:20:07

that's fine.

Gary Capps: 00:20:08

But you know, it

Gary Capps: 00:20:10

doesn't work because of these

Vit Muller: 00:20:11

would you refund her the December one as well?

Gary Capps: 00:20:14

that's the thing, right?

Gary Capps: 00:20:15

So this is where I grabbed a cash, our CSM said, Hey look, come in here,

Gary Capps: 00:20:19

let's talk through this and what the response would be to this person.

Gary Capps: 00:20:22

'cause I don't have an SOP for this, right?

Gary Capps: 00:20:23

How do you reply to this person?

Gary Capps: 00:20:25

Because

Gary Capps: 00:20:25

I wanna keep them happy 'cause they've just signed up again as a customer.

Gary Capps: 00:20:29

But they were immediately upset because they've broken it because

Gary Capps: 00:20:32

they didn't follow the instructions.

Gary Capps: 00:20:34

they paid for this December invoice, which effectively they

Gary Capps: 00:20:37

actually owed us anyway, right?

Gary Capps: 00:20:39

we came up with a nice response to this person, like nicely.

Gary Capps: 00:20:42

Say, Hey, look, we can see this.

Gary Capps: 00:20:43

This is what's happened.

Gary Capps: 00:20:44

You've been, it looks like you've been double charged, but you

Gary Capps: 00:20:46

actually haven't because it's actually an invoice you owed us for.

Gary Capps: 00:20:49

And Stripe took that money.

Gary Capps: 00:20:51

And the reason why your account isn't working is because of these reasons.

Gary Capps: 00:20:54

But we've got help here for that.

Gary Capps: 00:20:56

We've got snapshots, we've got support.

Gary Capps: 00:20:58

You can join one of our onboarding calls, book a call with one of our

Gary Capps: 00:21:01

team, or just watch this training here.

Gary Capps: 00:21:03

This will step you through all the things that you need to do, and.

Gary Capps: 00:21:07

Download our snapshot, use our GPTs, write your messages, do

Gary Capps: 00:21:10

all this, and then it'll work.

Gary Capps: 00:21:11

'cause we've got hundreds of agencies and thousands of end

Gary Capps: 00:21:13

users doing this successfully.

Gary Capps: 00:21:15

It's not the system.

Gary Capps: 00:21:16

And we didn't say it like this.

Gary Capps: 00:21:17

This isn't a system problem.

Gary Capps: 00:21:18

This is a you problem, right?

Gary Capps: 00:21:20

Follow the steps.

Gary Capps: 00:21:21

We'd love to help you get this set up and working correctly.

Gary Capps: 00:21:24

And if you'd like to do that, we'll be more than happy to help you.

Gary Capps: 00:21:27

And as a goodwill gesture, I'll be happy to just refund you the December

Gary Capps: 00:21:30

payment, just as a goodwill gesture.

Gary Capps: 00:21:33

Let us know what you wanna do, because I'm thinking like honestly as a

Gary Capps: 00:21:37

business person too, and as you ask do we refund that December payment?

Gary Capps: 00:21:40

It's look to keep a client happy.

Gary Capps: 00:21:42

Sure, I'll refunder the December payment if you stay happy, we

Gary Capps: 00:21:46

keep you and we keep you going.

Gary Capps: 00:21:47

But if you don't want to and you just go, no, I wanna cancel

Gary Capps: 00:21:50

it all because it doesn't work.

Gary Capps: 00:21:51

You go, yep, no worries.

Gary Capps: 00:21:52

Look, we'll refund you now, but you actually owe us that

Gary Capps: 00:21:55

payment as an outstanding one.

Gary Capps: 00:21:56

So I think that we should.

Gary Capps: 00:21:58

I think that we should keep that ultimately.

Gary Capps: 00:22:00

'cause,

Gary Capps: 00:22:00

you know, that was for services rendered back then.

Gary Capps: 00:22:02

so, we'll see what they say.

Gary Capps: 00:22:03

this is literally a situation that came up this morning.

Gary Capps: 00:22:05

So how do you create an SOP for that?

Gary Capps: 00:22:07

'cause you've gotta keep a customer happy and then sacrifice one

Gary Capps: 00:22:10

thing to maybe for the future.

Gary Capps: 00:22:12

But if they don't want the future part with you and they go, you

Gary Capps: 00:22:14

know, you kind of owe us that money.

Gary Capps: 00:22:15

So, we'll see what happens.

Gary Capps: 00:22:16

Stay

Vit Muller: 00:22:17

There's, yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:22:18

And then this type of customer sounds like she would fall into that bucket

Vit Muller: 00:22:21

where, you know, it's more of an emotional response, very quick response,

Vit Muller: 00:22:25

not really assessing it, not, you know, being introspective into maybe it's her

Vit Muller: 00:22:29

own issue, what she's done or haven't done, or haven't followed instructions.

Vit Muller: 00:22:33

But in the end, ultimately the risk is somebody who, and I'm not saying she's

Vit Muller: 00:22:38

emotional, but I've had a customer that literally fell into that bucket.

Vit Muller: 00:22:42

Like he was pissed, no results.

Vit Muller: 00:22:44

He was working through another coach that we partnered up with, and the

Vit Muller: 00:22:48

problem wasn't with the coach either.

Vit Muller: 00:22:49

He just didn't get results because again, he didn't follow the instructions.

Vit Muller: 00:22:54

there's a process, there's a blueprint.

Vit Muller: 00:22:56

That's how it works, right?

Vit Muller: 00:22:56

Like we test things and then we see results and then we package it

Vit Muller: 00:23:00

up and like we're trying to help other businesses and, but there's a

Vit Muller: 00:23:03

process and there's stuff that we do.

Vit Muller: 00:23:05

Even if somebody pays you for full setup, there's always gonna be a

Vit Muller: 00:23:08

checklist for them to do stuff, like to provide stuff or whatever, right?

Vit Muller: 00:23:13

So he was emotional and it's straight away like just threatening, It's a thing.

Vit Muller: 00:23:17

And he was just like being real dick about it, you know?

Vit Muller: 00:23:20

I don't really wanna do it, but you know, there's a thing

Vit Muller: 00:23:21

called Google Reviews and yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:23:23

So it's how do you deescalate that?

Vit Muller: 00:23:25

You know?

Vit Muller: 00:23:26

because that's a still a risk if somebody, even though

Vit Muller: 00:23:28

you're, you've done everything.

Vit Muller: 00:23:29

You've checked everything.

Vit Muller: 00:23:30

how do you, because what's the bigger risk is you get somebody who starts

Vit Muller: 00:23:35

to get, go in a war against you and start throwing shit online and, you

Vit Muller: 00:23:40

know, and it's, you don't want that.

Vit Muller: 00:23:42

even though you can obviously fight it, you can argue against it,

Vit Muller: 00:23:46

you can be, you know, reasoning.

Vit Muller: 00:23:48

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:23:48

It's a tricky.

Gary Capps: 00:23:49

Yeah, but you just don't ever want the hassle, right?

Gary Capps: 00:23:52

And also, I try and take a step back and just go, all right,

Gary Capps: 00:23:55

where's this customer at?

Gary Capps: 00:23:56

In their head,

Gary Capps: 00:23:57

you know, this person's upset and they're annoyed because of these reasons.

Gary Capps: 00:24:01

Okay?

Gary Capps: 00:24:01

Can we rectify that?

Gary Capps: 00:24:02

Can we keep them happy?

Gary Capps: 00:24:04

Ultimately, you want keep customers happy, right?

Gary Capps: 00:24:06

So like I said, you might make some short term sacrifices for a long time gain,

Gary Capps: 00:24:11

but a lot of the time, if you can do that and actually go back to customers

Gary Capps: 00:24:14

and sort out with 'em, you end up with really good, lifelong happy customers.

Gary Capps: 00:24:18

You go,

Gary Capps: 00:24:18

Hey, again, we didn't tell the customer that, you know, system works.

Gary Capps: 00:24:22

This is a you issue.

Gary Capps: 00:24:23

We didn't obviously say that, but we did point out nicely.

Gary Capps: 00:24:25

And they say, Hey, look, this is a problem.

Gary Capps: 00:24:27

We can see here in your account.

Gary Capps: 00:24:28

This is what you've done.

Gary Capps: 00:24:29

These are the reasons why it's not working.

Gary Capps: 00:24:31

Here's the training, here's the support.

Gary Capps: 00:24:32

Here's all the things you can get.

Gary Capps: 00:24:34

If you need extra help, we offer.

Gary Capps: 00:24:36

You know, you can actually talk to a person.

Gary Capps: 00:24:38

We've got Zoom support, we do all these things, we wanna

Gary Capps: 00:24:40

help you get this working.

Gary Capps: 00:24:41

'cause you bought this for a reason, right?

Gary Capps: 00:24:43

You didn't just buy it because you wanted to spend some money today.

Gary Capps: 00:24:46

You bought this 'cause you wanted a reason, you wanted to get

Gary Capps: 00:24:48

results, you didn't get results.

Gary Capps: 00:24:49

Let's help you get results, right?

Gary Capps: 00:24:51

So again, you see some people don't come back on that path, some people do.

Gary Capps: 00:24:55

yeah, we just want, you just wanna keep things nice with customers and

Gary Capps: 00:24:58

just try and think where they are.

Gary Capps: 00:25:00

and again, going back to the SOP thing, that's just coming back

Gary Capps: 00:25:03

to like education and training.

Gary Capps: 00:25:04

So training my CSM and going, Hey, this is how I would handle this, right?

Gary Capps: 00:25:09

'cause we wanna handle this and think about the future for that customer.

Gary Capps: 00:25:13

And again, like we don't just wanna necessarily refund them that first

Gary Capps: 00:25:16

payment immediately now, because if they just cancel their account

Gary Capps: 00:25:19

and go, no, I just wanna cancel.

Gary Capps: 00:25:20

we've just refunded them two payments and we missed out and

Gary Capps: 00:25:23

like we didn't do anything wrong.

Gary Capps: 00:25:25

So it could end up that way anyway.

Gary Capps: 00:25:27

'cause you could get strike chargebacks and stuff, but.

Gary Capps: 00:25:29

You just try and handle situations, really, that just comes down

Gary Capps: 00:25:32

to communication really, and trying to be upfront with clients

Vit Muller: 00:25:35

Yeah, mate.

Vit Muller: 00:25:36

I've been looking at these events happening and you I'm here in Canberra.

Vit Muller: 00:25:42

I got my last event, I went to Dallas and I'm looking up Gary's

Vit Muller: 00:25:45

in, over there in South America now.

Vit Muller: 00:25:47

He's going, are you going to a lot of events these days?

Vit Muller: 00:25:50

What's been happening?

Gary Capps: 00:25:52

now to get around, go to Vegas in a couple of weeks, mate,

Gary Capps: 00:25:54

actually not even a couple of weeks in a week.

Vit Muller: 00:25:55

exciting.

Vit Muller: 00:25:56

What are you gonna do in Vegas?

Gary Capps: 00:25:58

so that's Dakota and Andy's, GHL Assembly.

Vit Muller: 00:26:02

Okay.

Vit Muller: 00:26:02

Andy Audate and Dakota Rought.

Gary Capps: 00:26:04

yes.

Gary Capps: 00:26:05

So I imagine this podcast will probably be out well after that's occurred.

Gary Capps: 00:26:08

'cause it's April the eighth that, sorry, April 9th.

Vit Muller: 00:26:11

yeah, we've got a seven week lead up time right now.

Gary Capps: 00:26:14

Yeah, so April 9th.

Gary Capps: 00:26:15

So yeah, it, two months ago this event happened.

Gary Capps: 00:26:18

You'll have probably seen it online or read all about it, but, yeah, in,

Gary Capps: 00:26:21

next week, we'll head off to that.

Gary Capps: 00:26:23

So we're gonna go to the GHL assembly.

Gary Capps: 00:26:25

I think they've got a hundred agency owners coming to that.

Vit Muller: 00:26:28

Brilliant mate.

Vit Muller: 00:26:29

With your product, makes perfect sense.

Vit Muller: 00:26:31

Go where the market is.

Vit Muller: 00:26:32

Highly saturated.

Vit Muller: 00:26:33

very specific audience.

Vit Muller: 00:26:35

You actually don't have to have a huge number, right?

Vit Muller: 00:26:37

A hundred is well, very much worth to go there, isn't it?

Gary Capps: 00:26:41

yeah, it's worth going and for us it's really good as well.

Gary Capps: 00:26:43

I think, you know, we've been in this Zoom world, this is my view of how

Gary Capps: 00:26:48

things have changed a little bit.

Gary Capps: 00:26:49

I know we've got ai, right?

Gary Capps: 00:26:50

We can talk about that.

Gary Capps: 00:26:50

How I, AI is, and you know, Gentech and people are using their avatars and

Gary Capps: 00:26:54

all that stuff, but I really see it that people are getting more and more.

Gary Capps: 00:26:59

Wanting to have a human connection.

Gary Capps: 00:27:01

go to these events, talk to people, shake a hand, see a real person.

Gary Capps: 00:27:05

And there's so much value in that.

Gary Capps: 00:27:06

we've done partnerships and deals with people now that just

Gary Capps: 00:27:10

wouldn't have happened over Zoom.

Gary Capps: 00:27:12

Alright.

Gary Capps: 00:27:12

We kind of started conversations on Zoom, but then we've gone and been in

Gary Capps: 00:27:16

the country with these people hung out.

Gary Capps: 00:27:18

You know, whether it's at the event, at the bar, playing a

Gary Capps: 00:27:21

game, whatever it might be.

Gary Capps: 00:27:23

Like, just getting to meet people.

Gary Capps: 00:27:25

and half of that is it's not even going and necessarily talking about

Gary Capps: 00:27:30

what you're gonna do, it's just like hanging out and getting to meet people.

Gary Capps: 00:27:32

Like just going have a conversation with people.

Gary Capps: 00:27:35

It's really important.

Gary Capps: 00:27:36

and I think I don't know AI's changing the landscape day by day, right?

Vit Muller: 00:27:41

It's ridiculous.

Gary Capps: 00:27:43

But I think people are missing the human connection,

Gary Capps: 00:27:46

you know, and it's all getting removed by ai.

Gary Capps: 00:27:49

Like we don't even know what's real anymore.

Gary Capps: 00:27:51

You're looking at AI videos of.

Gary Capps: 00:27:53

Influencers or bands or this or that, you know, how do we connect with real people?

Gary Capps: 00:27:59

And these events are a good opportunity to do that and go and see your customer base

Gary Capps: 00:28:02

and they get to meet the people behind it.

Gary Capps: 00:28:04

we've done a lot of talks, we had Raheem on, we run webinars as well.

Gary Capps: 00:28:08

And, Raheem from Brandify, come on

Gary Capps: 00:28:10

and talk about like personal branding, how important that is now.

Gary Capps: 00:28:14

And she showed us that when she came on and did a webinar with us.

Gary Capps: 00:28:16

So I've never even sort of considered or thought about, but the amount of

Gary Capps: 00:28:20

people that are searching on Google now for how to create a personal brand.

Gary Capps: 00:28:24

I forget the numbers, I'm probably gonna get wrong here, but it's doubled

Gary Capps: 00:28:27

or tripled in the last couple of years because people are seeing this stuff and

Gary Capps: 00:28:32

they're just like, how do I stand out?

Gary Capps: 00:28:34

Right?

Gary Capps: 00:28:34

how do you stand out now in this AI world where you can throw out a hundred

Gary Capps: 00:28:39

videos of you shorts talking about something within the day, like easily,

Gary Capps: 00:28:45

you know, and then have them published and posted and scheduled and whatever.

Gary Capps: 00:28:48

But you can't make a hundred videos in a day personally.

Gary Capps: 00:28:51

So how do you stand out from the person that's doing these a hundred

Gary Capps: 00:28:55

AI videos or all this AI stuff?

Gary Capps: 00:28:59

Being your true, authentic self and being out there

Gary Capps: 00:29:01

is the only way that you can really do that now.

Gary Capps: 00:29:04

And AI videos don't cut the mark as far as that goes.

Gary Capps: 00:29:08

I mean, they're very good,

Vit Muller: 00:29:09

I,

Gary Capps: 00:29:10

cut the mark as far as being like a real person and

Gary Capps: 00:29:12

going and meeting real people

Vit Muller: 00:29:14

yeah, I actually think, I mean, in a way I like how it's progressing

Vit Muller: 00:29:18

and the video's getting really good, but at the same time, I hope it doesn't

Vit Muller: 00:29:22

really get that good that you can't tell, because that's gonna ruin everything.

Vit Muller: 00:29:29

I think, you know, not everything, but you know, like I go to Facebook

Vit Muller: 00:29:33

these days and I'm just seeing so much more AI generated content, right?

Vit Muller: 00:29:38

We're seeing it and it's like, how much of it is real?

Vit Muller: 00:29:41

I think this is like an interesting thing.

Vit Muller: 00:29:43

I don't wanna sound all negative, but it's heading to a set, you know, to a, to

Vit Muller: 00:29:48

an interesting future where you wouldn't be able to tell if somebody's been.

Vit Muller: 00:29:52

You know, very creative of how they, you know, write their copy and how

Vit Muller: 00:29:55

they write their personal post.

Vit Muller: 00:29:57

'cause right now, like I'm looking at Facebook and everybody's copy

Vit Muller: 00:29:59

is just such a lot more clever, you know, thought out and you could

Vit Muller: 00:30:05

tell people are using AI a lot more.

Vit Muller: 00:30:08

But like I said,

Gary Capps: 00:30:09

They are.

Gary Capps: 00:30:10

But if you look at like some of the really big influencers out there, unless their

Gary Capps: 00:30:13

videos are amazing, ai, and they'll talk about like Gary V and Alex Hormozi, right?

Gary Capps: 00:30:18

They're not putting AI avatars out there.

Gary Capps: 00:30:21

All their videos are them.

Gary Capps: 00:30:22

They're clips of them talking at conferences.

Gary Capps: 00:30:24

Having a conversation with a person, you know, something from a consulting

Gary Capps: 00:30:28

clips from podcasts they've done, they're not using AI videos.

Gary Capps: 00:30:32

Now

Vit Muller: 00:30:33

that's, it's

Gary Capps: 00:30:33

why I asked that que I don't know the answer,

Gary Capps: 00:30:36

but why are they not doing it?

Gary Capps: 00:30:38

And if they're not doing it and everyone else is, and they're some of the

Gary Capps: 00:30:41

biggest marketers on the planet, right?

Gary Capps: 00:30:43

And everyone else is saying, yeah, use AI videos.

Gary Capps: 00:30:45

Use AI videos, but the biggest marketers on the planet and not doing that, why not?

Vit Muller: 00:30:50

I think that's just the, you know when they say everyone,

Vit Muller: 00:30:52

everybody's zig, you go to zag.

Vit Muller: 00:30:53

That's how you like, you gotta stand out 'cause it's human.

Vit Muller: 00:30:58

As humans, we're lazy by nature, so we're always looking for shortcuts and

Vit Muller: 00:31:01

for leverage and I think that's why.

Gary Capps: 00:31:03

Yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:31:04

And a lot of people just don't wanna get on camera.

Gary Capps: 00:31:06

Like they're nervous, they're.

Gary Capps: 00:31:07

You know, to worry how they look and they appear like we've done some

Gary Capps: 00:31:10

AI videos of me and, I've posted a couple just 'cause I made them and I

Gary Capps: 00:31:14

was clear that this is an AI video.

Gary Capps: 00:31:16

Like I've made this for a, you know, just to see how it is, what

Gary Capps: 00:31:18

do you think?

Gary Capps: 00:31:19

Ha ha ha type thing.

Gary Capps: 00:31:20

And we were trying to make some AI videos of me for a new website

Gary Capps: 00:31:25

that we're building or we're rebuilding the website, right?

Gary Capps: 00:31:28

So AI videos of me explaining the iMessage products, explaining SMS, explaining RCS,

Gary Capps: 00:31:33

our new products and stuff like that.

Gary Capps: 00:31:35

And they just don't look right to me.

Gary Capps: 00:31:37

I'm just like, ah, they're good, the voice is good.

Gary Capps: 00:31:39

You know, we've trained it, it's got two hours worth of my conversation.

Gary Capps: 00:31:42

So it's trained really well.

Gary Capps: 00:31:44

The AI avatar's pretty good, but it still struggles with certain words.

Gary Capps: 00:31:49

Like it's, it doesn't say our brand probably's, like myCRMSIM, you

Gary Capps: 00:31:53

know, it's not quite grabbing it.

Gary Capps: 00:31:54

I'm like, and I don't think anyone would probably pick it

Gary Capps: 00:31:57

up like they're pretty good.

Gary Capps: 00:31:58

But to me, I'm just like, that's not me.

Gary Capps: 00:32:01

And even if people.

Gary Capps: 00:32:02

Don't notice these things.

Gary Capps: 00:32:03

There's an intuition that people have got right inside where they'll kind of watch

Gary Capps: 00:32:07

something and it resonates or it doesn't and you don't even know why sometimes.

Gary Capps: 00:32:12

And I just feel like they don't resonate.

Gary Capps: 00:32:14

They definitely don't resonate with me 'cause I know it's not me anyway.

Gary Capps: 00:32:17

But I think other people will see that and go, yeah, that's not the actual person.

Gary Capps: 00:32:21

If they're not putting themself there on the camera to explain what

Gary Capps: 00:32:26

their product actually is, why not?

Gary Capps: 00:32:29

And I think it just subconsciously chucks a load of questions into

Gary Capps: 00:32:33

the back of someone's mind.

Vit Muller: 00:32:34

Mm-hmm.

Gary Capps: 00:32:35

Whereas if you are there front and center again, Hey, I'm Gary.

Gary Capps: 00:32:37

This is me.

Gary Capps: 00:32:38

This is our product.

Gary Capps: 00:32:39

This is how it works.

Gary Capps: 00:32:40

Got any questions, reach out to our support team.

Gary Capps: 00:32:42

Like I don't have to be answering their questions.

Gary Capps: 00:32:43

I don't answer the support team.

Gary Capps: 00:32:45

I do our open office hours, I do some of our demo calls.

Gary Capps: 00:32:49

I'm not always there anymore, but they still see that person behind it

Gary Capps: 00:32:53

kind of standing behind their product.

Gary Capps: 00:32:54

And I think that's, I think that's important.

Gary Capps: 00:32:56

So all these AI videos that we were gonna do, we kind of bend it and we

Gary Capps: 00:33:01

just recorded me instead actually in front of a screen doing the videos.

Vit Muller: 00:33:05

Good.

Vit Muller: 00:33:05

' Gary Capps: cause I just wasn't comfortable with it.

Vit Muller: 00:33:07

I went, no, I

Vit Muller: 00:33:08

And also, I mean, it is also a difference if it was like

Vit Muller: 00:33:10

creating a regular content every week, something fresh for socials.

Vit Muller: 00:33:14

Maybe that's if it's for your website, for a brand new website and it's like

Vit Muller: 00:33:18

you just do it once and it's, this is where the conversion happened,

Vit Muller: 00:33:22

it's, yeah, it just makes a lot more sense to make that actual real video.

Vit Muller: 00:33:25

Yeah, for sure.

Vit Muller: 00:33:27

And you know, aside from that, like you've been leveraging your time

Vit Muller: 00:33:32

since, when did you start your podcast?

Gary Capps: 00:33:34

we started doing webinars pretty soon after we launched 'cause

Gary Capps: 00:33:38

we were doing weekly webinars.

Gary Capps: 00:33:40

And it was just me basically talking about SMS.

Gary Capps: 00:33:43

And I think I did two or three months.

Gary Capps: 00:33:45

I was like, I can't keep doing this.

Gary Capps: 00:33:47

It can't just be me all the time.

Gary Capps: 00:33:48

So I started asking people in the high level community say, Hey look, would you

Gary Capps: 00:33:51

come on and teach our people something?

Gary Capps: 00:33:53

I know you've got this cool product or this cool service,

Gary Capps: 00:33:55

or you coach people on this.

Gary Capps: 00:33:57

Can you just come and teach our community about what it is that you do?

Gary Capps: 00:34:01

And I did that genuinely.

Gary Capps: 00:34:02

'cause I just wanted to bring in cool people that I knew and liked and trusted.

Gary Capps: 00:34:07

And I still, to this day, I think over, we've done somewhere

Gary Capps: 00:34:12

around 80 webinars now.

Gary Capps: 00:34:14

I think I've done affiliate links on two of them.

Gary Capps: 00:34:15

And that's 'cause when the people turn and, oh, we set up an affiliate link

Gary Capps: 00:34:18

for you for our products at the end.

Gary Capps: 00:34:20

And I was like, oh great.

Gary Capps: 00:34:20

Thank you very much.

Gary Capps: 00:34:21

I never asked for any of that.

Gary Capps: 00:34:22

I just generally try and bring people in.

Gary Capps: 00:34:24

'cause it's good for, it's good for our audience, it's good for me, it's

Gary Capps: 00:34:27

good for content, it's good for them.

Gary Capps: 00:34:29

Everybody kind of wins in that situation.

Gary Capps: 00:34:30

And.

Gary Capps: 00:34:31

again, talk, trying to be authentic, you know, with the video and all that stuff.

Gary Capps: 00:34:35

I didn't wanna do weekly webinars where every week I'm bringing someone

Gary Capps: 00:34:38

on to pitch and promote a product

Gary Capps: 00:34:41

so that we could make an affiliate commission out of it.

Gary Capps: 00:34:44

Because that, again, to me just seemed that's just me trying to pitch a product

Gary Capps: 00:34:47

for someone else every week, and I wanna bring in stuff that people will trust,

Gary Capps: 00:34:52

or actually I think is good for them.

Gary Capps: 00:34:53

Right?

Gary Capps: 00:34:54

Or we can educate 'em on, or whatever it might be.

Gary Capps: 00:34:55

Otherwise, people are just gonna, oh, you're just pitching every

Vit Muller: 00:34:57

You said the key word there.

Vit Muller: 00:34:59

Education.

Vit Muller: 00:34:59

Yeah, like I think you can still sell stuff at the webinars.

Vit Muller: 00:35:03

But if it's purely like a sales presentation, then it's,

Vit Muller: 00:35:07

that's gonna put people off.

Vit Muller: 00:35:08

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:35:08

But I think if you come across from Hey, we're gonna bring in this person.

Vit Muller: 00:35:11

He's gonna talk about some cool strategy, you get to learn.

Vit Muller: 00:35:15

And then obviously providing the shortcut in a form of a product or service on

Vit Muller: 00:35:19

how that strategy can be implemented.

Vit Muller: 00:35:21

I think it's always a good thing.

Vit Muller: 00:35:23

'cause it's serving the market and if you do it in a soft way and

Vit Muller: 00:35:28

mentioning, yeah, this is where we are a little bit different.

Vit Muller: 00:35:31

we've talked about it, right?

Vit Muller: 00:35:32

my approach is a little bit more I try to structure it in pretty much always

Vit Muller: 00:35:36

because it's like, it just makes sense.

Vit Muller: 00:35:40

But yeah, never in a way would it be like pure sales.

Vit Muller: 00:35:43

Like even this podcast, right?

Vit Muller: 00:35:45

Like bringing on guests, injuring people about different strategies.

Vit Muller: 00:35:48

You look, I mean, it's learning process too, right?

Vit Muller: 00:35:50

I've had some vendors, some episodes where it just turned a bit more of a. It would

Vit Muller: 00:35:54

just end up being a little bit more sales, more salesy than I would've wanted it.

Vit Muller: 00:35:58

but yeah, just oftentimes now it just comes across pretty good, I think.

Gary Capps: 00:36:02

Yeah, I think you do the right thing.

Gary Capps: 00:36:03

I mean, your podcast is like where we aspire to be.

Gary Capps: 00:36:06

'cause we do that, we do webinars.

Gary Capps: 00:36:07

Then we started a podcast as well.

Gary Capps: 00:36:09

We started SaaS Dads, podcast, which you are coming on soon.

Vit Muller: 00:36:12

Tomorrow.

Gary Capps: 00:36:14

tomorrow actually.

Gary Capps: 00:36:14

Is it tomorrow?

Gary Capps: 00:36:15

yeah, we started SaaS Dads and I started that because of a conversation

Gary Capps: 00:36:20

that I had with Bryce, from Close Bot and, Bryce from Close Bot.

Gary Capps: 00:36:24

And me.

Gary Capps: 00:36:25

We would like, me and Bryce are very similar as well in terms

Gary Capps: 00:36:29

of Hey, here's our product.

Gary Capps: 00:36:30

We think it's really cool.

Gary Capps: 00:36:30

We're gonna educate you about it.

Gary Capps: 00:36:31

If you wanna buy it, here's the option at the end kind of thing, right?

Gary Capps: 00:36:34

I've done webinars with Bryce where we've gone through the whole thing

Gary Capps: 00:36:38

and then we get to the end and we go, oh, have you got a link for people?

Gary Capps: 00:36:42

People ask it, have you got a deal or a link?

Gary Capps: 00:36:44

I go, yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:36:44

Sorry.

Gary Capps: 00:36:44

Yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:36:45

Here's the link.

Gary Capps: 00:36:45

Whatever.

Gary Capps: 00:36:46

Because we kind of forget about that part, right?

Gary Capps: 00:36:48

we are there to educate people, not to ram a sales pitch down their throat.

Gary Capps: 00:36:52

Right?

Gary Capps: 00:36:53

And I was doing a podcast once with Bryce.

Gary Capps: 00:36:55

And we were doing the normal thing where we were kind of talking

Gary Capps: 00:36:58

about our products and closed bot and my swim sim and then how they

Gary Capps: 00:37:00

work together and stuff like that.

Gary Capps: 00:37:01

And it was really nice.

Gary Capps: 00:37:02

And in halfway through also, we started talking about his journey that he's on.

Gary Capps: 00:37:08

'cause he wants to get to a nine figure valuation with closed bot,

Gary Capps: 00:37:12

which I just applaud him for every day.

Gary Capps: 00:37:14

And just go, mate, I hope you get there.

Gary Capps: 00:37:15

I don't have that aspiration 'cause that's really hard work,

Gary Capps: 00:37:18

but good luck for you and I'll support you in any way that I can.

Gary Capps: 00:37:22

Okay.

Gary Capps: 00:37:23

But talking about that and talking with him, and then this was, oh, almost a year

Gary Capps: 00:37:29

ago, I think that we did that podcast.

Gary Capps: 00:37:31

And at that point, I'm not saying we were in the same level of our companies

Gary Capps: 00:37:34

or whatever, but we were on the same journey, like we were scaling pretty fast.

Gary Capps: 00:37:37

They were scaling pretty fast.

Gary Capps: 00:37:39

he had much bigger aspirational goals than we did, but we were

Gary Capps: 00:37:41

still going at a fair rate as well.

Gary Capps: 00:37:44

And we started talking about that, what that was like, and the sacrifices

Gary Capps: 00:37:47

that you make across your family, between your kids and your wife.

Gary Capps: 00:37:51

And

Gary Capps: 00:37:51

then managing staff and having to hire new people and training people for SOPs and

Gary Capps: 00:37:56

keeping on top of everything and answering emails and all the things you have to

Gary Capps: 00:38:00

learn when you're in this scaling mode.

Gary Capps: 00:38:02

And the challenges around it, particularly around family

Gary Capps: 00:38:04

and balancing life and family.

Gary Capps: 00:38:06

So in the middle of our podcast where we were talking about like our

Gary Capps: 00:38:09

products, we had this 20 minute bit where we really spoke about like our

Gary Capps: 00:38:14

family and what it was like and how, you know, I struggle because I'm gonna

Gary Capps: 00:38:19

picking my son up at three o'clock from school and then I don't work.

Gary Capps: 00:38:21

So I work from roughly nine till three o'clock, which is a short day.

Gary Capps: 00:38:26

And then I've got my son, so I'll go back to work at eight o'clock at night.

Gary Capps: 00:38:29

And that's really tiring,

Gary Capps: 00:38:30

you know?

Gary Capps: 00:38:31

And it was such a good.

Gary Capps: 00:38:33

Conversation from one business owner to another.

Gary Capps: 00:38:36

just a genuine conversation.

Gary Capps: 00:38:38

I got off that podcast.

Gary Capps: 00:38:39

We finished it, wrapped it up, and I couldn't get out of my head

Gary Capps: 00:38:42

afterwards about that conversation.

Gary Capps: 00:38:44

I was like, I want to have more chats like that with people about

Gary Capps: 00:38:46

what it's like to grow and scale and the troubles that you have.

Gary Capps: 00:38:49

And not talking about the trouble so much, but just Hey, this is

Gary Capps: 00:38:53

the reality of what it's like.

Gary Capps: 00:38:54

You understand this?

Gary Capps: 00:38:54

Yep.

Gary Capps: 00:38:55

'cause then other people I think, can relate to that.

Gary Capps: 00:38:57

You know, all agency owners that are out there.

Gary Capps: 00:39:00

You, we all think, I say all people, right?

Gary Capps: 00:39:01

And no matter what you're doing, we're all our own special problem.

Gary Capps: 00:39:03

Right?

Gary Capps: 00:39:04

We all know our own problems.

Gary Capps: 00:39:05

And you kind of forget that other people have got the same problems too, right?

Gary Capps: 00:39:07

So it's good to hear that from other people.

Gary Capps: 00:39:09

Go, yeah, this is the struggles and this is how I overcome it.

Gary Capps: 00:39:12

And you can pick up really good information from that.

Gary Capps: 00:39:15

And I couldn't get that outta my head for months.

Gary Capps: 00:39:19

So.

Gary Capps: 00:39:20

It stuck in my head and then I don't even know where it came

Gary Capps: 00:39:23

from because why would I do that?

Gary Capps: 00:39:25

What do I talk about?

Gary Capps: 00:39:25

And then SaaS dads came into my head, I was like, oh, let's call it SaaS dads.

Gary Capps: 00:39:29

So that was the idea for a podcast.

Gary Capps: 00:39:31

We just started doing SaaS dads and interviewing dads

Gary Capps: 00:39:34

that are building SaaSes.

Gary Capps: 00:39:35

So you'll be one.

Gary Capps: 00:39:36

You'll coming on

Gary Capps: 00:39:37

And, I,

Vit Muller: 00:39:38

No, it's been brilliant, man.

Vit Muller: 00:39:39

I've been following it.

Vit Muller: 00:39:40

I remember when you reached out last year.

Vit Muller: 00:39:42

I dunno if it was you wanted me to help you with it or run it

Gary Capps: 00:39:45

yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:39:45

Yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:39:46

you did help us.

Gary Capps: 00:39:46

You did help us.

Gary Capps: 00:39:47

we got together and then you showed us like the process that you have for

Gary Capps: 00:39:51

this podcast and you know, some of the things that you do to actually put

Gary Capps: 00:39:55

this together, like production wise.

Gary Capps: 00:39:57

So you actually really helped us at the start.

Gary Capps: 00:39:59

'cause you kind of went through that with me and kind of gave

Gary Capps: 00:40:01

us some guidance at the end.

Gary Capps: 00:40:02

'cause I was like, I didn't know what I'm doing.

Gary Capps: 00:40:03

I had

Vit Muller: 00:40:04

I did

Gary Capps: 00:40:04

no idea.

Gary Capps: 00:40:05

I was like, we're just gonna do some Zoom calls with people.

Vit Muller: 00:40:07

you go.

Gary Capps: 00:40:08

Yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:40:08

So you actually really helped us with that.

Gary Capps: 00:40:10

And then my idea was that I would do, I said, I'm just gonna do 12.

Gary Capps: 00:40:14

I was like, if I can get 12 people on, that'd be great.

Gary Capps: 00:40:17

I just, I'm just going for 12 conversations.

Gary Capps: 00:40:19

That was my idea.

Gary Capps: 00:40:20

And I hit up some pretty big names in high level.

Gary Capps: 00:40:23

I've got like Matt Deseno's and Robb Baileys and Danny Clark,

Gary Capps: 00:40:26

like Diamond SaaSpreneurs,

Vit Muller: 00:40:28

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:40:28

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:40:28

Awesome people.

Vit Muller: 00:40:29

Yeah, I've heard them on this show too.

Gary Capps: 00:40:31

yeah, it got Sarah Cordiner on as well.

Gary Capps: 00:40:32

You know, we did a SaaS mums, I didn't wanna be prejudice, right.

Gary Capps: 00:40:35

SaaS dads, but I was like, come on, we can have mums in there too.

Gary Capps: 00:40:37

All right.

Gary Capps: 00:40:37

So we did SaaS mums with  Sarah Cordiner even got on Shaun Clark and Robin as well

Gary Capps: 00:40:44

to the founders from high level as well.

Gary Capps: 00:40:46

'cause they've both got young kids.

Gary Capps: 00:40:48

and I thought, we'll do 12 and that'll probably be it.

Gary Capps: 00:40:51

'cause I dunno, maybe I'll just be, I'll be boring after that.

Gary Capps: 00:40:54

I dunno what else I'll say to people.

Gary Capps: 00:40:56

And then as in.

Gary Capps: 00:40:58

We'd done the 12 and then I was in Dallas and they were

Gary Capps: 00:41:01

still coming out at that time.

Gary Capps: 00:41:02

'cause we recorded 12 and then we just started releasing 'em weekly.

Gary Capps: 00:41:06

And I was in Dallas and I had five people.

Gary Capps: 00:41:09

I had more than five people, but five people would actually came

Gary Capps: 00:41:12

up to me and said, Hey, can I be on your SaaS dads podcast?

Gary Capps: 00:41:14

I really liked that.

Gary Capps: 00:41:16

You know?

Gary Capps: 00:41:17

So then we started doing a season two, which is coming out now.

Gary Capps: 00:41:19

And it's fun.

Gary Capps: 00:41:20

Like it's, these are cool conversations to have with people.

Gary Capps: 00:41:24

'cause I think these are the conversations that agency owners don't hear, right?

Gary Capps: 00:41:28

They'll get told, do this, pick a niche and then scale that niche and hire a va.

Gary Capps: 00:41:34

Right?

Gary Capps: 00:41:34

That's kind of the instruction, the blueprint if you like.

Gary Capps: 00:41:37

But when you hear the backstory for these people, you know, talking to the Danny

Gary Capps: 00:41:40

Clarks, he's got like a thousand accounts.

Gary Capps: 00:41:42

how did he start?

Gary Capps: 00:41:43

How did that go?

Gary Capps: 00:41:44

What were the troubles that you went through to actually

Gary Capps: 00:41:45

getting that and scaling that?

Gary Capps: 00:41:47

You know, those are the lessons that people, or the stumbling

Gary Capps: 00:41:51

blocks that people will come across as you grow and scale.

Gary Capps: 00:41:54

So I think they're really good conversations.

Gary Capps: 00:41:56

That's been a lot of fun.

Gary Capps: 00:41:57

Enjoy that.

Vit Muller: 00:41:58

And the bit about relatability, I think it's important

Vit Muller: 00:42:00

because, I mean, I tend to beat myself or I don't often tend to reward myself for

Vit Muller: 00:42:08

the effort I put in during the day to day.

Vit Muller: 00:42:11

You know, like sometimes you just, you got this project and you just going all

Vit Muller: 00:42:14

in, you finish that, move straight on the next one because you're just trying

Vit Muller: 00:42:18

to get things of the list, trying to get traction and you never really like,

Gary Capps: 00:42:22

Sit

Vit Muller: 00:42:22

re sit back and re reconcile and all the good stuff.

Vit Muller: 00:42:26

You just tend to, you know, you just tend to take it for that's

Vit Muller: 00:42:29

just the way it is you just gotta hassle, just gotta work hard.

Vit Muller: 00:42:32

And then you get to a point where maybe you've worked a little bit

Vit Muller: 00:42:36

too long, too hard for too many days in a row and you start to maybe

Vit Muller: 00:42:40

have feeling a bit of burnout and.

Vit Muller: 00:42:43

some negative, you know, like feeling a body like, oh, but being able to speak to

Vit Muller: 00:42:49

somebody else who's in that same space.

Vit Muller: 00:42:51

The relatability is ah, somebody else is going through the set.

Vit Muller: 00:42:53

This, oh, this is normal.

Vit Muller: 00:42:55

This is not just me.

Vit Muller: 00:42:56

This is a regular thing.

Vit Muller: 00:42:57

Like we're all, you know, we're all going through it.

Vit Muller: 00:43:00

so I think it's important for mental health as well, having those

Vit Muller: 00:43:04

conversations, whether you've got thousands sub-accounts or trying

Vit Muller: 00:43:07

to get your first a hundred, you know, there's common problems.

Vit Muller: 00:43:11

Maybe different scale, but

Gary Capps: 00:43:13

yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:43:13

Yeah, absolutely.

Gary Capps: 00:43:14

Yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:43:14

And everybody's been through 'em and I, there's not one person that I've spoken

Gary Capps: 00:43:17

to who hasn't had massive problems on the way at some point or another, and

Gary Capps: 00:43:22

they might not have been the business problems, they might have been personal

Gary Capps: 00:43:25

problems they had to overcome while they were managing the business.

Gary Capps: 00:43:27

They go, oh, this happened.

Gary Capps: 00:43:28

maybe they, I dunno, like they, they got divorced or they just, their child

Gary Capps: 00:43:32

was really ill at a point, or their, you know, their car blew up or whatever

Gary Capps: 00:43:36

it was so they couldn't get out to calls or something, whatever it was.

Gary Capps: 00:43:38

Right.

Gary Capps: 00:43:39

Every single person has had some problem along the way.

Gary Capps: 00:43:41

Either personally or business wise, they've had to overcome.

Gary Capps: 00:43:44

And then you do just have to overcome it, right?

Gary Capps: 00:43:47

You have to just kind of sit back and just go, all right, this has

Gary Capps: 00:43:49

happened, but tomorrow is gonna be another day and a new day.

Gary Capps: 00:43:52

And that's part of business, right?

Gary Capps: 00:43:53

Every day is challenges to overcome every single day.

Gary Capps: 00:43:58

I mean, this, there's so many stupid little challenges that come up.

Gary Capps: 00:44:01

we were talking earlier, right about, so we're gonna go to, this event next week,

Gary Capps: 00:44:05

and I've got some new t-shirts printed.

Gary Capps: 00:44:06

So we've got some new t-shirts to, to go out and we've just got new

Gary Capps: 00:44:10

ones with a QR code on the back that says, Hey, ask us about iMessage,

Gary Capps: 00:44:13

right?

Gary Capps: 00:44:14

And I was like, right, that's cool.

Gary Capps: 00:44:16

I've already got the t-shirts, this logo, the t-shirts, they're all

Gary Capps: 00:44:19

uploaded in Vistaprint already, right?

Gary Capps: 00:44:21

That's done.

Gary Capps: 00:44:22

All I need to do is go in there and drop a QR code on the

Gary Capps: 00:44:25

back, put some text on there.

Gary Capps: 00:44:27

Hit order that's gonna be done in about five or 10 minutes.

Gary Capps: 00:44:31

Right?

Gary Capps: 00:44:31

Should be really easy.

Gary Capps: 00:44:33

So I did that and in five or 10 minutes I was done.

Gary Capps: 00:44:36

But when I went to order, there was a problem with the shopping cart on there.

Gary Capps: 00:44:40

And then because I've got a call to get on, like I, I started on live

Gary Capps: 00:44:45

chat going, Hey, there's a problem.

Gary Capps: 00:44:46

It's saying there's an error with my order.

Gary Capps: 00:44:47

What's the problem?

Gary Capps: 00:44:48

Kind of thing.

Gary Capps: 00:44:49

So you get the person comes on, they're like, gimme a minute, gimme two to

Gary Capps: 00:44:52

four minutes to check into this.

Gary Capps: 00:44:54

So I'm kind of waiting for them.

Gary Capps: 00:44:56

I've got a call that I'm supposed to get on.

Gary Capps: 00:44:57

I think we had a open office hours call 'cause it was on a Friday.

Gary Capps: 00:45:00

So we've got open office hours, which is when our clients just come and

Gary Capps: 00:45:02

just ask whatever questions they want.

Gary Capps: 00:45:04

So I'm like, okay, I need to get on this call in a minute, but I don't wanna

Gary Capps: 00:45:07

drop off of the live chat that I'm on.

Gary Capps: 00:45:09

'cause as soon as I lose it.

Gary Capps: 00:45:10

You know, you're Back to square one.

Gary Capps: 00:45:12

So I'm juggling both of those and it ended up taking an hour to get

Gary Capps: 00:45:17

this Vista print thing done while I'm juggling the open office hours.

Gary Capps: 00:45:19

I'm kind of talking on the screen over here and just

Gary Capps: 00:45:21

keeping like an eye over here.

Gary Capps: 00:45:22

Just go.

Gary Capps: 00:45:23

Okay.

Gary Capps: 00:45:23

'cause I've gotta ask them.

Gary Capps: 00:45:24

'cause otherwise they'll disappear.

Gary Capps: 00:45:25

'cause I had a couple of times where they went, are you

Gary Capps: 00:45:27

still with me?

Gary Capps: 00:45:27

If you're not with me, I'll time out.

Gary Capps: 00:45:29

So kinda go, no, I'm still here while I'm talking over there.

Gary Capps: 00:45:32

You know, so this thing takes me an hour while I'm juggling that, which should

Gary Capps: 00:45:35

have taken me 10 minutes and done before, so I could have focused over here.

Gary Capps: 00:45:38

You know, this, there's always just silly little things that will take up

Gary Capps: 00:45:40

your time and your day to big things.

Gary Capps: 00:45:42

Right?

Gary Capps: 00:45:43

And that's just the nature of business, right?

Gary Capps: 00:45:44

So if you're not prepared for problems, probably shouldn't be in business.

Gary Capps: 00:45:48

So I take out that,

Vit Muller: 00:45:49

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:45:49

It's always gonna be some And the definition between a loser and not being

Vit Muller: 00:45:55

a loser is really just not giving up.

Gary Capps: 00:45:57

yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:45:57

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:45:58

if you give up, that's, you lost it.

Vit Muller: 00:45:59

that's the definition of being a loser.

Vit Muller: 00:46:01

Like you lose it, you move on.

Vit Muller: 00:46:02

what else has been happening?

Gary Capps: 00:46:03

Oh, what else has been happening?

Vit Muller: 00:46:05

maybe yeah, no.

Vit Muller: 00:46:06

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:46:06

Go ahead.

Gary Capps: 00:46:07

I guess life.

Gary Capps: 00:46:08

Life is just life.

Gary Capps: 00:46:09

Life happens as it happens kind of thing in some ways.

Gary Capps: 00:46:12

I mean, you know, I've got a young son that's my priority in life really

Gary Capps: 00:46:15

is like my son and I tend to spend as much time as I can with him, which then

Gary Capps: 00:46:20

means I do work very odd hours or silly hours and I'm trying to pull those

Gary Capps: 00:46:24

back because like I mentioned earlier, I tend to work a lot in the evening.

Gary Capps: 00:46:28

which means I work at night, which that makes means I end up working late and then

Gary Capps: 00:46:31

I still gotta get up early in the morning 'cause I gotta get him to school, gotta

Gary Capps: 00:46:34

walk the dog, got all those things to do.

Gary Capps: 00:46:36

So I'm trying to pull that back.

Gary Capps: 00:46:37

you know, now, like we're in a decent place as far as the company goes

Gary Capps: 00:46:40

and everything, so I'm trying to pull all those hours back so that I

Gary Capps: 00:46:42

can get decent night's sleep again.

Gary Capps: 00:46:45

But really, yeah, focus around family, big.

Gary Capps: 00:46:48

Big focus around my son, really just spending time with him, trying to keep

Gary Capps: 00:46:51

him, not keep him, I mean, you know, just get to grow into a good young human.

Gary Capps: 00:46:55

I mean, he's eight years old.

Gary Capps: 00:46:57

your son's a bit younger, I think, isn't he

Vit Muller: 00:46:59

He's, yeah, he's six,

Gary Capps: 00:47:01

six?

Gary Capps: 00:47:01

Yeah, he's a couple of years younger.

Gary Capps: 00:47:03

But yeah, just

Vit Muller: 00:47:03

sorry.

Vit Muller: 00:47:04

turning six this year.

Gary Capps: 00:47:05

turning six.

Gary Capps: 00:47:06

Yeah, so just going through life and the challenges of

Gary Capps: 00:47:08

being a dad, figuring that out.

Gary Capps: 00:47:10

'cause there's no handbook, there's no SOP for kids, so that one, I have got

Gary Capps: 00:47:15

no manual as far as that goes, so just trying to figure that out and spend

Gary Capps: 00:47:19

as much time with him as possible.

Gary Capps: 00:47:20

We had a really cool trip.

Gary Capps: 00:47:22

So in December, we went over to Pakistan, saw all our dev team over there, which

Gary Capps: 00:47:27

was awesome.

Gary Capps: 00:47:28

And I took him with me because I wanted him to experience a different culture in

Gary Capps: 00:47:32

another part of the world and just see what's going on in, in other countries.

Gary Capps: 00:47:37

like we, he traveled with me a lot.

Gary Capps: 00:47:38

Like we take him a lot of places anyway, I mean the last six months he, again,

Gary Capps: 00:47:42

I'm trying to make him understand that this isn't necessarily normal.

Gary Capps: 00:47:47

'cause in six months he went to, Bali, Pakistan, China, which was only like a

Gary Capps: 00:47:52

sort of a layover for a day, but it was in China and then Mexico like in six months.

Gary Capps: 00:47:57

And just kind of explained to him like, you know,

Vit Muller: 00:47:59

did you go to the AI Unleash Summit, the one in January?

Vit Muller: 00:48:02

Is that the thing that you went

Gary Capps: 00:48:04

yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:48:04

So we went there in Mexico as well.

Gary Capps: 00:48:06

So him and my wife came over if we had a holiday before that.

Gary Capps: 00:48:10

So trying to give

Vit Muller: 00:48:10

I think Sarah did that as well.

Vit Muller: 00:48:12

She brought her family over there for that AI Unleash Summit.

Gary Capps: 00:48:15

Yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:48:15

Yeah, we went together.

Gary Capps: 00:48:15

So we all hung out.

Gary Capps: 00:48:17

So we had, so she brought her family.

Gary Capps: 00:48:19

I brought my family.

Gary Capps: 00:48:19

We hung out for 10 days before

Gary Capps: 00:48:21

and then our families went home and me and Sarah went off to the conference.

Gary Capps: 00:48:24

It was heaps of fun.

Vit Muller: 00:48:25

Except for the weather.

Vit Muller: 00:48:26

I heard the weather wasn't that great.

Gary Capps: 00:48:28

it was on and off, on

Gary Capps: 00:48:29

and off.

Gary Capps: 00:48:30

but yeah, trying to do that and, yeah, grow a good human as a son and show

Gary Capps: 00:48:34

'em the world while trying to keep him grounded, which is really hard when

Gary Capps: 00:48:38

they're young and eight years old.

Gary Capps: 00:48:39

'cause they just don't understand the value of money or anything.

Gary Capps: 00:48:42

They just don't get it.

Gary Capps: 00:48:43

yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:48:43

So just trying to do that and figure out what he's interested in, where we can take

Gary Capps: 00:48:47

him, what direction he wants to go in.

Gary Capps: 00:48:49

He doesn't know himself at eight, so trying to guide, not

Gary Capps: 00:48:52

push all those things really.

Vit Muller: 00:48:55

Yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:48:56

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:48:56

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:48:57

No, having kids is awesome.

Gary Capps: 00:48:58

It's definitely the most, it's the biggest growth

Gary Capps: 00:49:00

curve I think you can have as

Gary Capps: 00:49:02

a, an adult, like having kids,

Vit Muller: 00:49:04

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:49:05

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:49:05

It's the juggle is real sometimes for me.

Vit Muller: 00:49:08

A lot, actually.

Vit Muller: 00:49:09

I've been working a lot, but yeah, that's something I'm working on.

Vit Muller: 00:49:13

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:49:13

realizing I've been working way too much, so he's, anyway, that's

Vit Muller: 00:49:16

a, maybe I'll leave SaaS Dads

Vit Muller: 00:49:18

hey

Gary Capps: 00:49:19

maybe it's s that, but yeah, I mean, I know you've got that going on and

Gary Capps: 00:49:21

you are moving soon and stuff like that.

Gary Capps: 00:49:23

So it's just, it's what is the juggle?

Gary Capps: 00:49:27

what are we striving for?

Gary Capps: 00:49:28

I mean, I was having conversations with, some GHLs yesterday, like we caught up

Gary Capps: 00:49:31

and then, and a few people have told me this, we should do this with, a products

Gary Capps: 00:49:35

and have a done for you service that we should do for people and, you know,

Gary Capps: 00:49:38

to get 'em set up and all these things.

Gary Capps: 00:49:39

and we probably should, but it's another service that then we've gotta

Gary Capps: 00:49:43

do and hire people for and manage

Gary Capps: 00:49:45

and.

Vit Muller: 00:49:46

I think what you've done and what the business that you've

Vit Muller: 00:49:48

got right now, it's brilliant.

Vit Muller: 00:49:50

Like it's actually not a. You know, it's not a highly complex SaaS business.

Vit Muller: 00:49:55

Right?

Vit Muller: 00:49:56

It's, and there's a real demand for it actually.

Vit Muller: 00:49:59

Sometimes, think about myCRMSIM as a definition of a really lean type

Vit Muller: 00:50:04

of offering that makes good money.

Vit Muller: 00:50:05

And it's actually, I would think, I don't know the back end, but I mean, you've

Vit Muller: 00:50:09

highlighted some of the areas like how you now, you know, you don't work as

Vit Muller: 00:50:13

much and you only do the open office.

Vit Muller: 00:50:15

So Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:50:15

It's that's pretty cool.

Vit Muller: 00:50:16

I think that's what we all kinda striving towards, like with my SaaS Stand out

Vit Muller: 00:50:22

from the Pack, you know, I've designed it in a way where it to be the same way.

Vit Muller: 00:50:26

if you've got it, like just lean as possible on my time.

Vit Muller: 00:50:30

So having the support taken care of by HL PRO Tools has been great

Vit Muller: 00:50:34

just doing open office hours.

Vit Muller: 00:50:36

But I'm not there yet.

Vit Muller: 00:50:37

I'm still pitching fulfillment and.

Vit Muller: 00:50:40

Still that, but I think, but that's never gonna get, you know, you can't

Vit Muller: 00:50:44

compare it like the complexity or the range of things that can be

Vit Muller: 00:50:47

fulfilled with high level in comparison to fulfilling an my CMC account.

Vit Muller: 00:50:52

Do you know what I mean?

Vit Muller: 00:50:53

It's like

Gary Capps: 00:50:54

yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:50:55

it's, yeah, it's a way different beast.

Gary Capps: 00:50:57

Way different beast.

Gary Capps: 00:50:58

But there's things that we could do, but I look at all that stuff as well

Gary Capps: 00:51:00

and go, okay, there's stuff we could do and there's stuff we should do, and then

Gary Capps: 00:51:05

there's the stuff that we want to do.

Gary Capps: 00:51:07

And,

Vit Muller: 00:51:08

How do you pick it?

Gary Capps: 00:51:09

yeah, how do you pick it at the end of the day?

Gary Capps: 00:51:11

And it depends on, you know, how much time it's gotta take the energy that's

Gary Capps: 00:51:15

gotta invest and what do you need to do?

Gary Capps: 00:51:17

For your life.

Gary Capps: 00:51:18

You know, I really worked hard the last 12 months, or,

Gary Capps: 00:51:20

18 months since we launched.

Vit Muller: 00:51:22

Yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:51:23

you know, I put in massive hours, you know, and it was

Gary Capps: 00:51:25

late nights and all these things.

Gary Capps: 00:51:27

So I'm doing what we were talking about at the beginning there you're

Gary Capps: 00:51:30

saying, you know, you can sit there.

Gary Capps: 00:51:31

Sometimes you just work and you go from one task to the next task to

Gary Capps: 00:51:33

the next task ticking off the list.

Gary Capps: 00:51:34

I'm actually in a stage at the moment where I'm just kind

Gary Capps: 00:51:37

of sitting back a little bit.

Gary Capps: 00:51:38

I mean, it might not look like that 'cause I'm still doing so much, but compared

Gary Capps: 00:51:41

to what I was doing in the last year and a half, I'm actually just sitting back

Gary Capps: 00:51:44

a little bit and just kind of taking a bird's eye view, so to speak, of

Gary Capps: 00:51:50

where things are at, what we're doing.

Gary Capps: 00:51:52

We've got a great roadmap for the future, for our product,

Gary Capps: 00:51:55

and things that are coming out.

Gary Capps: 00:51:56

the product as it is awesome, but I can see so many things that we can do to make.

Gary Capps: 00:52:01

That better.

Gary Capps: 00:52:02

'cause we always do, you know, we're entrepreneurial.

Gary Capps: 00:52:05

We always look at things with a half critical eye.

Gary Capps: 00:52:06

I think.

Gary Capps: 00:52:07

So there's many things that I think that we can do.

Gary Capps: 00:52:09

And we've got in our pipeline to do.

Gary Capps: 00:52:12

but there's only so many hours in the day that you can do all of that stuff.

Gary Capps: 00:52:14

And, you know, that's speeding up as well with ai.

Gary Capps: 00:52:17

But that's also a challenge too, because there's all this AI stuff going on and

Gary Capps: 00:52:21

people vibe, coding, all these things.

Gary Capps: 00:52:22

But that doesn't help necessarily in a complex system like we've got.

Gary Capps: 00:52:26

It helps to a degree.

Vit Muller: 00:52:28

Yeah,

Gary Capps: 00:52:29

and I'm always pushing, like I'm always pushing our dev team go, come

Gary Capps: 00:52:32

on, we should be getting code this faster than yeah, but you don't understand, Gary.

Gary Capps: 00:52:35

You don't understand the complexities of these things.

Gary Capps: 00:52:38

And then what happens if and when it breaks, you know?

Gary Capps: 00:52:42

And

Vit Muller: 00:52:43

I think Cursor might be a good solution.

Vit Muller: 00:52:45

I've been looking at Cursor.

Vit Muller: 00:52:46

I know this is lovable, but, cursor is, you can actually, it's being built

Vit Muller: 00:52:49

for developers so you can actually see the code and you can highlight portion

Vit Muller: 00:52:53

of the code and get AI to help you.

Vit Muller: 00:52:55

And then you can also link it to GetHub, so you've got that there.

Gary Capps: 00:53:00

yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:53:00

we are doing all of that stuff, but, it's the way, and, I get it

Gary Capps: 00:53:05

when it's explained to me, right?

Gary Capps: 00:53:06

But the way I, when you've got a complex system, right, let's say you

Gary Capps: 00:53:10

want to do a simple change, alright?

Gary Capps: 00:53:13

So I just wanna change that button to blue instead, it's

Gary Capps: 00:53:15

red at the moment, away it blue.

Gary Capps: 00:53:17

So if you know the code and you are a developer, you can hop into the code

Gary Capps: 00:53:21

and you can just go in and it's my clawed cursor actually just popped

Gary Capps: 00:53:26

up when you were talking about it.

Gary Capps: 00:53:26

It heard it, it popped up on the screen, get rid of it.

Gary Capps: 00:53:29

you know, you can just go in and you can just change the hex color and you're done.

Gary Capps: 00:53:32

Right?

Gary Capps: 00:53:32

Really quick and simple, but little things like that can

Gary Capps: 00:53:36

actually be harder to do with ai.

Gary Capps: 00:53:38

Alright, so it

Gary Capps: 00:53:39

can change the button shape, it can move things around.

Gary Capps: 00:53:41

It can do whatever.

Gary Capps: 00:53:42

And you know, you've gotta be really clear on what you're doing.

Gary Capps: 00:53:45

So it's a help and a hindrance in some ways.

Gary Capps: 00:53:49

So we, are using it.

Gary Capps: 00:53:51

but, at a degree, I guess, 'cause it's complex.

Gary Capps: 00:53:53

It's complex systems that have to be put together and we've got a number

Gary Capps: 00:53:56

of complex systems that have to work together and then have to scale through

Gary Capps: 00:54:00

servers and through AWS to manage all the volume that goes through as well.

Gary Capps: 00:54:05

And we can't afford for that to go down, you know, we

Gary Capps: 00:54:08

cannot afford for it to break.

Gary Capps: 00:54:09

We've got so many people on there, we take that part obviously very

Gary Capps: 00:54:12

seriously in terms of keeping the thing, keeping the lights on.

Vit Muller: 00:54:15

Question to you about the software.

Vit Muller: 00:54:17

So you've been releasing some new features, I think made last year

Vit Muller: 00:54:20

or beginning of last year is when the iMessage product came out.

Vit Muller: 00:54:26

So you've got SMS now you've got WhatsApp, and you've got iMessage has the like.

Vit Muller: 00:54:32

How much focus is given towards adding new features or enhancing new features

Vit Muller: 00:54:37

versus, you know, just improving what's there and just making it more

Vit Muller: 00:54:41

better as user experience and making it easier, for people to not mess up.

Vit Muller: 00:54:47

For example, the rules around sending limits.

Vit Muller: 00:54:50

I think you were talking about it in one of the webinars last week.

Vit Muller: 00:54:53

You know how, because again, going back to that lady, right, she said my SMS is not

Vit Muller: 00:54:59

working because she burned that number.

Vit Muller: 00:55:01

She didn't follow the instructions, so there's always gonna be a human error.

Vit Muller: 00:55:05

I've even seen high level now they actually, the A two T and D or C, they're

Vit Muller: 00:55:09

trying to put a lot more in place to minimize the human errors that are there.

Vit Muller: 00:55:16

Just creating more guardrails so it becomes really out of box system

Vit Muller: 00:55:20

that you just follow it and you just can't mess it up where you're at

Vit Muller: 00:55:23

with, when you're looking at your, and trying to frame the question

Vit Muller: 00:55:27

when you're looking at your software.

Vit Muller: 00:55:30

How much focus, where's the priority for you?

Vit Muller: 00:55:33

More of the commercial aspect, meaning adding more bells and whistles versus,

Vit Muller: 00:55:40

the quality of the product itself.

Gary Capps: 00:55:42

I would say the priority is the quality of the product.

Gary Capps: 00:55:45

Alright.

Gary Capps: 00:55:45

Because every time we get any feedback, that's what goes in first.

Gary Capps: 00:55:48

And then it depends on how important is that thing.

Gary Capps: 00:55:51

So if it's a feature request, that's a nice to have, then that goes on the list.

Gary Capps: 00:55:56

But obviously it goes a bit down further.

Gary Capps: 00:55:58

If there's a problem that someone's had.

Gary Capps: 00:56:01

And we can see a way that we could fix that problem by adjusting something in

Gary Capps: 00:56:05

the code or the UI or whatever it might be that goes to the top of the list.

Gary Capps: 00:56:08

So those, and then there's the balancing act of the, how long does it take to

Gary Capps: 00:56:13

implement versus the priority, right?

Gary Capps: 00:56:16

So there is a balance act, but the quality of the product is

Gary Capps: 00:56:19

the most important thing for me.

Gary Capps: 00:56:20

And we've done a lot of stuff on that over the last, yeah, since we've launched, I

Gary Capps: 00:56:24

mean, we've, we will have a completely new app coming out that we've just completely

Gary Capps: 00:56:30

redone for SMS, which should eliminate, any problems with people blasting out.

Gary Capps: 00:56:36

'cause it's now controlled at the app level.

Gary Capps: 00:56:38

Like we have stuff in place at the server level to try and throttle

Gary Capps: 00:56:41

things, but we'll now have it in place at the actual app level as well.

Gary Capps: 00:56:46

So, that was a high priority problem.

Gary Capps: 00:56:51

But it was a long problem to build, like to rebuild the entire app from

Gary Capps: 00:56:56

scratch is not a five minute thing.

Gary Capps: 00:56:59

So that's been going on in the background.

Gary Capps: 00:57:01

And then it's the juggling of that between, okay, this needs to be done

Gary Capps: 00:57:05

'cause it's gonna fix a high priority problem, but it's a long problem to fix.

Gary Capps: 00:57:10

And then a small high priority problem might come in and you go, okay, we

Gary Capps: 00:57:14

can get this one done in a couple of hours or a day, for example.

Gary Capps: 00:57:18

So okay, just pause for a day on the app, just get that one done 'cause we get it

Gary Capps: 00:57:21

fixed, but that delays the app for a day.

Gary Capps: 00:57:23

Does that make sense?

Gary Capps: 00:57:24

So there's the constant juggling act, act between priority and

Gary Capps: 00:57:28

time with all those things.

Gary Capps: 00:57:29

So, the app has been out for a little while now, and then also

Gary Capps: 00:57:34

then there's the release of that.

Gary Capps: 00:57:35

So we've had the app out and there's the release of that to

Gary Capps: 00:57:38

make sure, or is that gonna work?

Gary Capps: 00:57:39

So it's in B two and we've got users using it.

Gary Capps: 00:57:42

And users, like new users now have the option to download the old

Gary Capps: 00:57:45

one or the new one if they want.

Gary Capps: 00:57:47

So.

Gary Capps: 00:57:48

Slowly over the next few weeks, we are gonna, actually next week or so, I

Gary Capps: 00:57:52

think we're gonna take off the option.

Gary Capps: 00:57:53

You can't even download the old one anymore, and users will only

Gary Capps: 00:57:56

get to download the old one, and then we have to sunset the old

Gary Capps: 00:57:59

one, transfer the users over.

Gary Capps: 00:58:01

So all these things take time.

Gary Capps: 00:58:02

Right.

Gary Capps: 00:58:03

and then, you know, in the meantime of that, there's other things going on.

Gary Capps: 00:58:06

So we've got new products that we're building.

Gary Capps: 00:58:07

So we've got RCS that we're building, which I'm very excited about.

Gary Capps: 00:58:10

'cause again, we'll be the first people.

Gary Capps: 00:58:12

We'll do this like we're the first to market with, iMessage.

Vit Muller: 00:58:15

rich content schema or.

Gary Capps: 00:58:17

communication service.

Vit Muller: 00:58:19

That's okay.

Vit Muller: 00:58:20

Yeah, those fancy messages, guys, when you're sending out a link to somebody

Vit Muller: 00:58:23

and then a beautiful SEO image, the social image pops up in that message.

Vit Muller: 00:58:29

I like that.

Vit Muller: 00:58:29

Whenever I'm sending it to like people I wanna have on a podcast, I've got

Vit Muller: 00:58:33

mine and it's got a little thumbnail with all the little faces of all

Vit Muller: 00:58:36

the people that I've interviewed.

Vit Muller: 00:58:37

It's kinda looks like a bit more, you know, punch to it when they see it.

Vit Muller: 00:58:42

Hey, we'd love to get you on a show, on an interview.

Vit Muller: 00:58:44

I like how that shows up in those messages that, that's in the iMessage.

Vit Muller: 00:58:48

It shows up everywhere.

Vit Muller: 00:58:49

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:58:49

So I think high level's working on as well.

Gary Capps: 00:58:52

yeah, so I think Twilio have got RCS and I don't think they've

Gary Capps: 00:58:55

got it across the lead connector yet,

Vit Muller: 00:58:57

Mm-hmm.

Gary Capps: 00:58:58

but again, we'll be doing that through, a mobile device.

Gary Capps: 00:59:01

So we've got that done.

Gary Capps: 00:59:02

we've beat tested as we've been running for a while, so that's all good.

Gary Capps: 00:59:05

again, just a case of getting that out and launched and building the

Gary Capps: 00:59:08

webpage for it and the product and all the other things that go with that.

Gary Capps: 00:59:12

So

Gary Capps: 00:59:12

that's been on the to-do's and then, you know, 'cause I've been away of

Gary Capps: 00:59:15

it and traveling, so I'm the blocker in a lot of these things now anyway.

Vit Muller: 00:59:18

People waiting for your, for your, feedback or for your approval.

Gary Capps: 00:59:22

Yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:59:23

so Yeah, that, so yeah, priority is the product and then the other

Gary Capps: 00:59:27

stuff is feature enhancement.

Gary Capps: 00:59:28

Yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:59:29

So adding, and again, it's like RCS is a feature enhancement, right.

Gary Capps: 00:59:33

But it also solves a problem, as in it does del it does offer better

Gary Capps: 00:59:37

deliverability and the option for, high resolution messages and video.

Gary Capps: 00:59:43

So it's a problem solver, but also a product enhancement.

Gary Capps: 00:59:48

'cause it's actually a separate product to SMS.

Gary Capps: 00:59:50

these actually two

Gary Capps: 00:59:50

different things.

Vit Muller: 00:59:52

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:59:53

It actually doesn't go through carriers, does it?

Vit Muller: 00:59:55

It's small,

Gary Capps: 00:59:55

Correct.

Gary Capps: 00:59:55

Goes Yeah.

Gary Capps: 00:59:56

It goes through RO

Vit Muller: 00:59:57

so it's, is it almost like what iMessage has been for?

Vit Muller: 01:00:01

Apple, RCS is gonna be for Androids.

Gary Capps: 01:00:04

is exactly that.

Gary Capps: 01:00:04

Yeah, it is.

Gary Capps: 01:00:05

It is the Android version of I of iMessage.

Gary Capps: 01:00:08

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:00:08

It's gonna be brilliant.

Vit Muller: 01:00:10

And with that, you know, cost is always the thing, right?

Vit Muller: 01:00:13

So sending lots of SMS messages comes at a cost, especially if you're in

Vit Muller: 01:00:18

country outside of us where Twilio charges is horrendous amount.

Vit Muller: 01:00:22

Guys, by the way, we've talked about all this.

Vit Muller: 01:00:25

If you wanna learn like about myCRMSIM, we've done an episode two years ago,

Vit Muller: 01:00:30

another one in July, last year in 2025.

Vit Muller: 01:00:33

So the whole product of myCRMSIM, we've, this is the reason why we're not

Vit Muller: 01:00:37

talking about it on it as much today.

Vit Muller: 01:00:39

'cause we've already done that.

Vit Muller: 01:00:41

The last one covers a lot bit.

Vit Muller: 01:00:43

So if you're running an agency, I'm just gonna go into the pitch mate.

Vit Muller: 01:00:45

I think,

Gary Capps: 01:00:46

I wasn't gonna know you do.

Vit Muller: 01:00:48

yeah, I mean, if you're running an agency, guys, if you've

Vit Muller: 01:00:50

got lots of sub accounts, lots of business owners, some of those business

Vit Muller: 01:00:53

owners who are sending lots of SMS messages, you can help them out.

Vit Muller: 01:00:57

And if you wanna reduce their costs, they're gonna love you for it.

Vit Muller: 01:01:00

You can actually, it's weird how you can actually make more money, as opposed

Vit Muller: 01:01:04

to making the money on the rebuilding and still make it, you know, that you

Vit Muller: 01:01:09

save a lot of money for the customer.

Vit Muller: 01:01:11

So it's a really a no brainer.

Vit Muller: 01:01:12

So yeah, if you want that's what my CRM is.

Vit Muller: 01:01:14

It works on a sim card that you plug it into your phone, Android or iPhone,

Vit Muller: 01:01:19

and then through Gary's, myCRM up and that you install on the phone.

Vit Muller: 01:01:23

And also, my CRM up in the marketplace of GHL is how you connect it

Vit Muller: 01:01:27

all basically then able to send SMS messages through or phone.

Vit Muller: 01:01:31

And if you have one of those, unlimited sim card planes, then

Vit Muller: 01:01:35

that's kind of the magic of it.

Vit Muller: 01:01:36

But yeah, check it out guys.

Vit Muller: 01:01:38

head over to high level experience.com/myCRMSIM.

Vit Muller: 01:01:42

You've got a good page, mate.

Vit Muller: 01:01:44

You've got a good website.

Vit Muller: 01:01:45

That kind of explains it.

Vit Muller: 01:01:46

You've now added some videos, so it really just, I don't need to say more guys.

Vit Muller: 01:01:50

Just check it out if this makes sense.

Vit Muller: 01:01:52

You wanna save, on your SMS costs.

Vit Muller: 01:01:55

If you want to improve, reply rates by implementing iMessage, the

Vit Muller: 01:01:59

Blue Bubble magic, it's all there.

Vit Muller: 01:02:02

That's my serum sim.

Vit Muller: 01:02:03

Gary, we're are at the end.

Vit Muller: 01:02:05

I'm gonna, we're gonna wrap it up.

Vit Muller: 01:02:07

I've got stuff to do.

Vit Muller: 01:02:08

You've got stuff to do, mate.

Vit Muller: 01:02:09

I just wanted to say you're awesome.

Vit Muller: 01:02:11

I appreciate you.

Vit Muller: 01:02:12

Thank you for sponsoring this show and, yeah, it's been

Vit Muller: 01:02:15

great to have you on again.

Gary Capps: 01:02:18

Pleasure, mate.

Gary Capps: 01:02:18

just keep doing what you are doing and educating the GHL community.

Gary Capps: 01:02:21

I think that's, it's a real valuable thing for people to, hear the stories, hear the

Gary Capps: 01:02:24

people that come on, hear their journeys.

Gary Capps: 01:02:27

figure out, you know, everyone's gotta figure out their own path,

Gary Capps: 01:02:29

but hopefully, this can help people to, you know, nudge and

Gary Capps: 01:02:33

keep them a little bit more linear than going off the rails maybe.

Vit Muller: 01:02:36

Absolutely.

Vit Muller: 01:02:37

This is probably a good segue to this next pitch guys.

Vit Muller: 01:02:40

I'm opening up until now the way I was always the one that was sort of reached

Vit Muller: 01:02:45

out to people who I thought would be great to have on the show for interview.

Vit Muller: 01:02:50

I wanna try something different.

Vit Muller: 01:02:51

I wanna interview any other fellow sapr.

Vit Muller: 01:02:55

I don't just wanna interview vendors or affiliates or sapr who

Vit Muller: 01:03:01

are like high up and they made it.

Vit Muller: 01:03:03

I know this is aspirational and it's cool.

Vit Muller: 01:03:05

I'm talking to you guys right now.

Vit Muller: 01:03:07

I know this is cool 'cause it's aspirational.

Vit Muller: 01:03:09

How cool how I've done it.

Vit Muller: 01:03:11

But, you know, hearing how somebody has been able to get to

Vit Muller: 01:03:15

thousand subaccounts may not be as relatable to you if you're only.

Vit Muller: 01:03:21

Got your first five or 10.

Vit Muller: 01:03:23

And so my thought is, why don't we interview some of the regulars in the

Vit Muller: 01:03:28

community who may be just starting out?

Vit Muller: 01:03:30

'cause that could be interesting.

Vit Muller: 01:03:31

what's your perspective of high level that you've just opened up

Vit Muller: 01:03:34

an account, it's been a month.

Vit Muller: 01:03:35

What are you struggling with?

Vit Muller: 01:03:37

It could be an interesting interview.

Vit Muller: 01:03:39

or maybe you've got 10, first 50, you know, somewhere, mid-range

Vit Muller: 01:03:43

at the beginning, whatever.

Vit Muller: 01:03:44

Really, I just wanna interview you guys and have a chat with you as well.

Vit Muller: 01:03:47

'cause we could create some pretty epic content that will help others relate

Vit Muller: 01:03:52

even more and provide more value.

Vit Muller: 01:03:54

And as you're hearing this, and if you're thinking, ah, yeah, but I don't really

Vit Muller: 01:03:58

have, you know, I haven't made it yet.

Vit Muller: 01:04:00

Why would I go on a podcast?

Vit Muller: 01:04:01

what could I share?

Vit Muller: 01:04:02

Trust me, there is, everybody's got some magic in them.

Vit Muller: 01:04:05

We'll dig it out.

Vit Muller: 01:04:06

It's that's one thing I enjoy doing.

Vit Muller: 01:04:07

So anyway, long story short, I've, last week it was at the Town record.

Vit Muller: 01:04:12

In this podcast, I spent a whole day and a half of.

Vit Muller: 01:04:16

Re-engineering the whole experience of booking on an episode.

Vit Muller: 01:04:20

so I create a new survey.

Vit Muller: 01:04:22

It's got a lot of questions, qualification questions that help

Vit Muller: 01:04:25

me understand better where you're at, where you, what's your journey.

Vit Muller: 01:04:29

And then you can basically book, it's called application, so you apply.

Vit Muller: 01:04:32

but, and then, you know, for the most part, everybody will come through

Vit Muller: 01:04:36

anyway, but it'll helps me understand.

Vit Muller: 01:04:38

So if you want to, if you want to be interviewed, this is a super long pitch.

Vit Muller: 01:04:41

Anyway, if you guys wanna be on the show, I would love to interview you.

Vit Muller: 01:04:45

I'd love to learn about your journey and create some epic content to help others.

Vit Muller: 01:04:49

head over to high level experience.com/interview.

Vit Muller: 01:04:53

And that's it.

Vit Muller: 01:04:54

Gary, thank you so much, mate.

Vit Muller: 01:04:56

Looking forward to, be on your podcast tomorrow.

Vit Muller: 01:04:58

That's, SaaS Dad podcast.

Vit Muller: 01:05:00

That's on Spotify.

Vit Muller: 01:05:01

You can just look it up.

Vit Muller: 01:05:02

SaaS dad, is it?

Gary Capps: 01:05:04

It's, yeah, it's on Spotify, YouTube, everywhere.

Gary Capps: 01:05:06

You can

Gary Capps: 01:05:06

download podcasts.

Gary Capps: 01:05:08

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:05:08

Awesome.

Vit Muller: 01:05:09

Alright guys, we'll put it in the show notes for you.

Vit Muller: 01:05:11

but yeah, Gary, thank you so much mate.

Vit Muller: 01:05:12

And, thank you guys as well.

Vit Muller: 01:05:14

Thank you for listening to today's episode on the high level experience.

Vit Muller: 01:05:17

If you enjoyed today's episode, then please share it with your fellow agency

Vit Muller: 01:05:20

mates and other high levelers that you think would also benefit from listening.

Vit Muller: 01:05:24

For show notes, links and extra tips to help you grow your agency

Vit Muller: 01:05:27

or your SaaS with high level, please go to high level experience.com.

Vit Muller: 01:05:31

Thank you and have a great rest of your day everybody.