Frank Sondors: 00:00:00

my sales team of five today produces more

Frank Sondors: 00:00:03

output than my sales team of 50.

Vit Muller: 00:00:06

I mean, let's face it, this AI revolution is just, every

Vit Muller: 00:00:10

day I wake up, there's something new.

Vit Muller: 00:00:12

It's just going real fast.

Vit Muller: 00:00:14

So there is no, there's no time to waste, there's no time to sleep, and

Vit Muller: 00:00:17

this is massive Leverage this technology.

Vit Muller: 00:00:20

So

Frank Sondors: 00:00:20

Don't expect people to be always knocking on your doors, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:00:23

And coming to your website, et cetera.

Frank Sondors: 00:00:24

Go and do the outreach.

Frank Sondors: 00:00:25

And what you'll find, by the way, is that your inbound results will

Frank Sondors: 00:00:28

massively improve if you do outbound.

Vit Muller: 00:00:30

a post two days ago, 433 comments, 174 likes, that's a, a lot

Vit Muller: 00:00:37

of engagement that you're getting,

Frank Sondors: 00:00:38

you are warming up your audience, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:00:40

You're warming up your audience maybe for weeks, months.

Frank Sondors: 00:00:43

And then when you actually reach out to them with the cold email

Frank Sondors: 00:00:45

or the dm, guess what conversion rates are through the roof.

Vit Muller: 00:00:50

and this is my little secret, but I'll share as well.

Vit Muller: 00:00:52

so by providing value, it's

Frank Sondors: 00:00:54

it's not just about educating the audience, doesn't matter

Frank Sondors: 00:00:57

what it is, but it's more important about a edutaining the audience.

Vit Muller: 00:01:06

Hello Everybody.

Vit Muller: 00:01:07

Welcome to another episode on the High Level Experience Podcast.

Vit Muller: 00:01:10

Our guest today is a master of modern sales warfare - the kind

Vit Muller: 00:01:15

of operator who doesn't just follow trends, he breaks them.

Vit Muller: 00:01:18

From building high performing sales orgs to engineering scalable outreach systems.

Vit Muller: 00:01:24

He's helped hundreds of B2B businesses, including high level

Vit Muller: 00:01:28

agencies, crush client acquisition with cutting edge tactics, whether

Vit Muller: 00:01:32

it's leveraging AI powered strategies or building entire campaigns through

Vit Muller: 00:01:36

LinkedIn that cut through the noise.

Vit Muller: 00:01:39

He's on the mission to help sales teams get more replies, more meetings,

Vit Muller: 00:01:44

and way more wins without burning through budgets or spamming in boxes.

Vit Muller: 00:01:49

Now he's a startup mentor, multilingual sales leader, and someone whose

Vit Muller: 00:01:53

beliefs that, performance, commitment, and culture are the real force

Vit Muller: 00:01:58

multipliers in revenue growth.

Vit Muller: 00:02:01

Now, please welcome to the show, Frank Sondors.

Frank Sondors: 00:02:09

Thanks for having me.

Frank Sondors: 00:02:10

yeah, it's good to be here.

Frank Sondors: 00:02:11

yeah, being in sales essentially.

Frank Sondors: 00:02:13

Maybe the other way to look at maybe, I've been in sales for over a decade,

Frank Sondors: 00:02:16

software sales, been selling a lot of different softwares, in frontline sales.

Frank Sondors: 00:02:19

Then over to, yeah, being a vp sales with a sales team of 50, and now building a

Frank Sondors: 00:02:25

sales technology company, essentially.

Frank Sondors: 00:02:26

Yeah.

Frank Sondors: 00:02:26

Helping hello agencies and, and anybody in B2B really that meets a bunch more

Frank Sondors: 00:02:32

meetings and wants just to do it in the leanest and meanest possible way.

Frank Sondors: 00:02:36

just to get an idea, we generate over 600 meetings on the monthly basis.

Frank Sondors: 00:02:40

Not, not all of them come from our software, but a good chunk

Frank Sondors: 00:02:43

of them come from our software.

Frank Sondors: 00:02:44

and we just want to, replicate, a lot of the things that we do

Frank Sondors: 00:02:48

to a lot of other businesses.

Frank Sondors: 00:02:50

And, and the, the, I think the type of businesses that particularly,

Frank Sondors: 00:02:53

do what we do are the ones that don't believe in hiring just more

Frank Sondors: 00:02:57

people to get to the results.

Frank Sondors: 00:02:59

They wanna build systems, and have the right processes in place and,

Frank Sondors: 00:03:03

and everything to, to scale, output.

Frank Sondors: 00:03:05

Right.

Frank Sondors: 00:03:06

just to give you an, an example of that just quickly is my, my sales

Frank Sondors: 00:03:09

team of 50 that I have back then.

Frank Sondors: 00:03:10

I have a sales team of five people right now, and my sales

Frank Sondors: 00:03:13

team of five today produces more output than my sales team of 50.

Frank Sondors: 00:03:18

So that's not a way to look at it.

Frank Sondors: 00:03:19

So, yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:03:20

Very impressive mate.

Vit Muller: 00:03:21

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:03:21

you, you've been very consistent as well in your career, so that's,

Vit Muller: 00:03:25

something I'd like to know, like what made you always stick to your line,

Vit Muller: 00:03:28

like stick to the it and tech industry?

Vit Muller: 00:03:32

Have you, have you always been like, kind of nerdy and like wanting to

Vit Muller: 00:03:34

get into this space or what was the, how did you get into this?

Frank Sondors: 00:03:39

So, yeah, fun fact, I, I finished my degree in

Frank Sondors: 00:03:41

the UK in international security.

Frank Sondors: 00:03:43

I always felt like gonna work for NATO or like the European Commission.

Frank Sondors: 00:03:47

And I did join the European Commission and I, I did join the bureaucrats and

Frank Sondors: 00:03:51

I, I and the, and when I started to work there, for the first few months and

Frank Sondors: 00:03:55

the type of people that worked there, I didn't feel like it was my cup of tea.

Frank Sondors: 00:03:58

I like, efficiency, I like progress and I like when things just move fast.

Frank Sondors: 00:04:02

And that was not the case in, if you're going down that the

Frank Sondors: 00:04:05

public sector kind of path.

Frank Sondors: 00:04:07

And

Vit Muller: 00:04:07

of red tape.

Frank Sondors: 00:04:08

I did 180 degree kinda, turn.

Frank Sondors: 00:04:12

I was like, damn, I'm never gonna work in the public sector ever again.

Frank Sondors: 00:04:15

And, and then I went to work naturally in the private sector and I was like,

Frank Sondors: 00:04:18

what, what are some of the coolest companies I could just work for?

Frank Sondors: 00:04:21

And I just joined Google.

Frank Sondors: 00:04:22

And then I was like, like day and night essentially.

Frank Sondors: 00:04:24

And from then on, you know, I got essentially indoctrinated into the

Frank Sondors: 00:04:28

world of essentially digital Google ads, analytics, whatever you name it.

Frank Sondors: 00:04:31

And then, I, I worked then later on for a bunch of different software companies

Frank Sondors: 00:04:35

on the data front, machine learning front, like the old AI essentially.

Frank Sondors: 00:04:39

I mean it's still this machine learning is still a thing.

Frank Sondors: 00:04:41

and yeah, it sort of cut.

Frank Sondors: 00:04:42

I was compounding essentially my, my competence, I think all things

Frank Sondors: 00:04:45

digital, but I was typically selling to marketing people.

Frank Sondors: 00:04:48

So like VP marketing at Lego, for example.

Frank Sondors: 00:04:50

I dunno, something like that.

Frank Sondors: 00:04:51

some sort of marketing technology software.

Frank Sondors: 00:04:53

I was always frontline selling, typically doing full sales cycle,

Frank Sondors: 00:04:57

that means I had to generate my own pipeline, I had to close deals.

Frank Sondors: 00:05:00

It was very typical, very normal for me.

Frank Sondors: 00:05:02

a concept of an SDRA sales development rep, somebody that actually books

Frank Sondors: 00:05:05

pipeline for me was very alien, overall.

Frank Sondors: 00:05:08

And then when I had a sales team of 50, I had 20 SDRs, like damn.

Frank Sondors: 00:05:11

And and back then the main sort of, you know, we were looking

Frank Sondors: 00:05:15

at how do you actually generate more pipeline, more revenue.

Frank Sondors: 00:05:18

We were look looking from, with our CFO, from a headcount standpoint, we need

Frank Sondors: 00:05:21

more bodies to generate more output.

Frank Sondors: 00:05:24

And I thought that was just a wrong way to look at things really.

Frank Sondors: 00:05:27

And, but there was nothing in the market that will allow you to, to

Frank Sondors: 00:05:30

increase output levels or increase conversion rates significantly.

Frank Sondors: 00:05:34

so that you stop hiring people.

Frank Sondors: 00:05:36

And we were always like hiring a lot of people every month, firing

Frank Sondors: 00:05:39

a lot of people every month.

Frank Sondors: 00:05:40

I think within a year I fired like a hundred people, but also

Frank Sondors: 00:05:42

hired like a hundred people.

Frank Sondors: 00:05:44

So there's a lot of like.

Frank Sondors: 00:05:45

Turnover in sales that a lot of sales leaders would know.

Frank Sondors: 00:05:47

And, and I think a lot of start startup founders will know you, you hire a lot

Frank Sondors: 00:05:50

of people, you fire a lot of people, you know, what I typically call Deadwood.

Frank Sondors: 00:05:53

and yeah, I was like, this is like madness and you must be a better way.

Frank Sondors: 00:05:57

So when I started to build Salesforce, I was always on a, on

Frank Sondors: 00:06:00

yeah, the mission figuring out how do I build like a software stack.

Frank Sondors: 00:06:02

So software stack means, you know, in our case we have seven softwares that we've

Frank Sondors: 00:06:05

built over the last two years, but how do I do it in, in a way, that, you implement

Frank Sondors: 00:06:10

this, this sort of system or these, the, the stack and allows you to reduce the

Frank Sondors: 00:06:15

pressure to harm more people, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:06:16

So, so yeah, that's how we think about building software and I think a lot of

Frank Sondors: 00:06:19

people are, think about software building software in, in, in a way where you don't

Frank Sondors: 00:06:23

need more humans operating the software.

Frank Sondors: 00:06:25

So yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:06:27

I mean, let's face it, this AI revolution is just, every

Vit Muller: 00:06:31

day I wake up, there's something new.

Vit Muller: 00:06:33

It's just going real fast.

Vit Muller: 00:06:35

So there is no, there's no time to waste, there's no time to sleep, and

Vit Muller: 00:06:39

this is massive Leverage this technology.

Vit Muller: 00:06:41

So you know, different stacks.

Vit Muller: 00:06:43

I see it.

Vit Muller: 00:06:44

I've been through a lot of people, a lot of us high levelers in this space,

Vit Muller: 00:06:47

high level is bringing a lot of.

Vit Muller: 00:06:49

Lot of cool, cool things in, we got the agent studio, a

Vit Muller: 00:06:52

lot of, I mean, it's unreal.

Vit Muller: 00:06:55

Now, your LinkedIn profile, you say that you help businesses bring more bacon.

Vit Muller: 00:06:59

Let's talk about that.

Vit Muller: 00:07:00

by the way, life to branding, it's, it's pretty clever.

Vit Muller: 00:07:02

Literally guys, if you go check out Frank Sondors on LinkedIn, he's got name next

Vit Muller: 00:07:07

to, he's got two bacon strips, and then the first thing you'll read is I make

Vit Muller: 00:07:11

you bring home more bacon.

Vit Muller: 00:07:13

So that's brilliant.

Vit Muller: 00:07:14

I had a chuckle on that one when I saw that one.

Vit Muller: 00:07:17

so let's dive into it.

Vit Muller: 00:07:18

go into this topic of cold outreach.

Vit Muller: 00:07:20

How do you help businesses bring more bacon, Frank?

Frank Sondors: 00:07:24

So, this space is like super good.

Frank Sondors: 00:07:26

It's like hundreds of different softwares there have hundreds of competitors, but

Frank Sondors: 00:07:29

ultimately, what I understood, you know, having been in Salesforce such a long time

Frank Sondors: 00:07:32

and having used a lot of these competitive softwares is that I really wanna use a

Frank Sondors: 00:07:35

software that essentially scales and.

Frank Sondors: 00:07:37

we, you wanna pick a kind of a lane like in, when it comes to generating

Frank Sondors: 00:07:41

pipeline and booking meeting, et cetera.

Frank Sondors: 00:07:42

so we know that there's a lot of technology, what we call

Frank Sondors: 00:07:44

on the inbound front, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:07:45

So when you generate leads and then you need to send the onboarding

Frank Sondors: 00:07:47

email or whatever, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:07:48

And there's a lot of good technology in that front, but what technology really

Frank Sondors: 00:07:51

sucks today is on the front of actually reaching out to, to people cold out

Frank Sondors: 00:07:56

of the blue, either via cold email or maybe via social, typically LinkedIn

Frank Sondors: 00:08:01

and, and then maybe cold calling.

Frank Sondors: 00:08:02

So these channels, there's a, the software in, in this space is not really great.

Frank Sondors: 00:08:06

So I thought to myself, Hey, let's pick this lane.

Frank Sondors: 00:08:09

Let's do outbound.

Frank Sondors: 00:08:10

But, but, we started with email back in the days, like two years ago.

Frank Sondors: 00:08:13

And the reason why we started with email two years ago, because about

Frank Sondors: 00:08:16

two, three years ago, it, it became much harder to deliver emails into

Frank Sondors: 00:08:20

the primary inbox of the recipient.

Frank Sondors: 00:08:23

So when, if you're sending, an unsolicited email, meaning you're reaching out code

Frank Sondors: 00:08:26

to somebody, the probability of landing in the primary inbox consistently and

Frank Sondors: 00:08:30

being able to do that at scale, so you hit your targets around booking

Frank Sondors: 00:08:33

meetings became so, so, so difficult.

Frank Sondors: 00:08:36

So a lot of the older softwares don't specialize in the

Frank Sondors: 00:08:38

email durability as a topic.

Frank Sondors: 00:08:39

So email deliverability is a, is a big, big problem because a lot

Frank Sondors: 00:08:42

of businesses have been built.

Frank Sondors: 00:08:44

over the last few decades, just purely on the email, purely

Frank Sondors: 00:08:47

on reaching out to people.

Frank Sondors: 00:08:48

So we decided this is a fantastic thing that needs to be solved.

Frank Sondors: 00:08:52

And, and, and because the, it's a big market, meaning a lot of people

Frank Sondors: 00:08:55

send emails and it's a big problem.

Frank Sondors: 00:08:57

It's a fantastic thing to go after and, and solve it for because, most

Frank Sondors: 00:09:01

of the tools are, are really horrible and especially the, the older ones.

Frank Sondors: 00:09:04

and so yeah, so we started to solve that.

Frank Sondors: 00:09:06

And, and apart from solving deliverability, we also thought,

Frank Sondors: 00:09:09

you know, back in the days of two, three years ago, chat, GPT came out.

Frank Sondors: 00:09:11

let's send emails, what we call unique to every single individual, and instead of

Frank Sondors: 00:09:17

sending a template, so we're big believers that templates are essentially dying out.

Frank Sondors: 00:09:21

Because what Google does today is if you're receiving any spam

Frank Sondors: 00:09:25

reports from any of your prospects.

Frank Sondors: 00:09:27

Is, and, and, and Google starts to associate the piece of content.

Frank Sondors: 00:09:30

So emails, email templates are static naturally.

Frank Sondors: 00:09:32

So this piece of email content with your domain and essentially email start

Frank Sondors: 00:09:36

landing in spam if some of the people start reporting your emails as spam.

Frank Sondors: 00:09:40

So the only way to tackle this, or the best way to tackle this

Frank Sondors: 00:09:42

rather, is if e edgery email is unique to every individual.

Frank Sondors: 00:09:45

So then Google cannot really recognize the patterns.

Frank Sondors: 00:09:48

so that's benefit one better doability, if you actually use AI within the email and

Frank Sondors: 00:09:52

benefit two if, if you are actually using proper ai, I'm gonna call it proper ai.

Frank Sondors: 00:09:57

There's also bad ai, but if you're gonna use proper AI where emails

Frank Sondors: 00:10:00

look like they, they actually.

Frank Sondors: 00:10:02

The address to you, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:10:03

It talks about some of the pains maybe you're having in the business,

Frank Sondors: 00:10:05

how this could be solved, et cetera.

Frank Sondors: 00:10:07

It addresses you and you feel like it has been written to you

Frank Sondors: 00:10:09

rather than not a template, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:10:10

That you kind report a spam, then you are more likely to respond back and more

Frank Sondors: 00:10:14

likely actually is a two x relative list.

Frank Sondors: 00:10:16

So if you compare a typical email template and a email that has been

Frank Sondors: 00:10:20

computed very well by ai, there's a two x relative lift in performance.

Frank Sondors: 00:10:25

so

Vit Muller: 00:10:25

about spin?

Vit Muller: 00:10:27

Sorry to stop you there.

Vit Muller: 00:10:28

What about spin techs?

Vit Muller: 00:10:29

Is that still a thing?

Vit Muller: 00:10:30

People still use that for cold email?

Vit Muller: 00:10:31

Or is it really better just to go all in on ai?

Frank Sondors: 00:10:34

So, after templates, Spinx came in, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:10:37

To solve that problem.

Frank Sondors: 00:10:37

So Spinx essentially means you're saying the same thing, using

Frank Sondors: 00:10:39

different words, Hey, hi, hello.

Frank Sondors: 00:10:41

And at least 50% of the initial email should be spintax if you'd

Frank Sondors: 00:10:44

really want to use templates.

Frank Sondors: 00:10:46

The reason why you use, you know, non-AI stuff in a lot of the cases,

Frank Sondors: 00:10:48

because AI stuff costs money, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:10:51

So if you don't wanna really spend money on unique emails.

Frank Sondors: 00:10:54

Just spin tax, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:10:55

So at least 50% of con content should be spin taxed.

Frank Sondors: 00:10:57

but yeah, truly, AI is the ultimate form or the, the best, way to, to,

Frank Sondors: 00:11:03

to eliminate this sort of the spam issue with, with within the content.

Frank Sondors: 00:11:07

but, so yeah, content was one piece, email was another one.

Frank Sondors: 00:11:10

But generally, like whenever I speak to anybody, let's say in the bar

Frank Sondors: 00:11:13

or anybody that says, Frank, how do I make sure my emails are very,

Frank Sondors: 00:11:16

or how, how do I make sure my cold email challenge is super successful?

Frank Sondors: 00:11:19

I typically try to dumb it down into what I call four pillars.

Frank Sondors: 00:11:23

So one hand, we've already talked about the copy.

Frank Sondors: 00:11:25

Copy is one of the four pillars.

Frank Sondors: 00:11:27

If the copy is isn't great, nothing's gonna happen.

Frank Sondors: 00:11:31

And, what will happen definitely is if the copy isn't great, that

Frank Sondors: 00:11:33

people will, will click on the spam button and nothing will really work.

Frank Sondors: 00:11:37

then the pillar two is what's called the email infrastructure pillar.

Frank Sondors: 00:11:40

So like you need infrastructure these days, unlike three years ago.

Frank Sondors: 00:11:44

And infrastructure means, is essentially you should never be sending any form of

Frank Sondors: 00:11:48

cold emails from your primary business domain because like I mentioned, so if

Frank Sondors: 00:11:52

you're sending emails, you definitely are at risk of receiving spam reports and

Frank Sondors: 00:11:57

at risk of being blacklisted, and you're definitely gonna receive spam reports.

Frank Sondors: 00:12:00

And, so the only way to safeguard your primary business domain

Frank Sondors: 00:12:03

is by setting up this sort of infrastructure of additional domains.

Frank Sondors: 00:12:06

So these domains are permutation of your primary business domain.

Frank Sondors: 00:12:09

So let's take an example.

Frank Sondors: 00:12:10

Let's say our primary business domain is salesforce.ai.

Frank Sondors: 00:12:14

So we would set up then secondary domains like try Salesforce, ai,

Frank Sondors: 00:12:17

get Salesforce AI team, Salesforce ai, and so on and so forth, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:12:21

by the way, we would never typically buy.ai domains because

Frank Sondors: 00:12:23

the I domains are very expensive.

Frank Sondors: 00:12:24

So the typical recommendation is to buy.com domains because most

Frank Sondors: 00:12:27

of the internet was built on.com as a top level, domain, extension.

Frank Sondors: 00:12:32

So, so you set up these domains and how many you need depends on the, how big your

Frank Sondors: 00:12:37

total adjustable market is and what sort of volume you wanna run emails at, but

Frank Sondors: 00:12:42

against every domain you typically set up today, like two or three, email accounts.

Frank Sondors: 00:12:46

And again, every email account can maybe send about 30

Frank Sondors: 00:12:49

called emails maximum per day.

Frank Sondors: 00:12:51

So the, this is a very typical guidance.

Frank Sondors: 00:12:53

There's some variation at, in, in here as well, depending on who

Frank Sondors: 00:12:56

is your ideal customer profile, which industry you are in.

Frank Sondors: 00:12:59

But essentially the more difficult it is the industries.

Frank Sondors: 00:13:02

So, for example, cybersecurity or enterprise companies, the more

Frank Sondors: 00:13:05

difficult it is to land the lower the volume, it should be per domain.

Frank Sondors: 00:13:09

So infrastructure is pillar two.

Frank Sondors: 00:13:11

Pillar three is, is, data or leads targeting, essentially, who is

Frank Sondors: 00:13:15

it that you're sending emails to?

Frank Sondors: 00:13:17

If you're sending people to the right, if you're sending emails to

Frank Sondors: 00:13:19

the right people, and it's a great copy, you will not get spam reports.

Frank Sondors: 00:13:22

People will respond back to you.

Frank Sondors: 00:13:24

But if you're sending emails to the wrong people, you will get spam reports.

Frank Sondors: 00:13:27

It'll, it'll destroy your infrastructure.

Frank Sondors: 00:13:29

You'll burn that infrastructure.

Frank Sondors: 00:13:31

So, so you wanna reduce also the burn rate, the way you reduce the burn rate.

Frank Sondors: 00:13:35

Good leads, good copy, good infrastructure set up.

Frank Sondors: 00:13:38

These are the three pillars.

Frank Sondors: 00:13:39

And then in the last pillar is what I, I typically say orchestration or execution.

Vit Muller: 00:13:44

I I'm gonna slow you down a little bit, Frank, if that's okay.

Vit Muller: 00:13:47

We've got, we've got a vast range of experiences here with, with our

Vit Muller: 00:13:52

listeners as well.

Vit Muller: 00:13:53

Some of us have done cold email.

Vit Muller: 00:13:56

I'm doubling into it.

Vit Muller: 00:13:57

I understand this concept, but I just wanna make sure that we don't,

Vit Muller: 00:14:00

we, we give some of the guys like chance to catch, catch up on it.

Vit Muller: 00:14:03

So, you mentioned one of the, before you move to the next pillar, Google leads.

Vit Muller: 00:14:07

So you're saying, Google qualified, contacts is what you're talking

Vit Muller: 00:14:11

about through the, like Google Maps API and things like that.

Frank Sondors: 00:14:15

No, no.

Frank Sondors: 00:14:15

So, the, the leads, I, me, is you can get, it depends on what sort

Frank Sondors: 00:14:20

of leads are you looking for.

Frank Sondors: 00:14:21

So if you're looking to reach out to local businesses, then yes, you may

Frank Sondors: 00:14:24

wanna extract that data through Google Maps and there's a lot of extractors.

Frank Sondors: 00:14:29

That can extract leads from Google Maps.

Frank Sondors: 00:14:31

So let's say you're going to, after, I dunno, barbers or whoever that is, is, is

Frank Sondors: 00:14:35

on Google Maps, restaurants, et cetera.

Frank Sondors: 00:14:37

Yes.

Frank Sondors: 00:14:37

The best, the best, sort of, let's call it, leads or email

Frank Sondors: 00:14:40

addresses that you could get from it is literally from Google Maps.

Frank Sondors: 00:14:44

And so there are tools that can do the extraction.

Frank Sondors: 00:14:47

and you could just Google them.

Frank Sondors: 00:14:48

There's a bunch of them.

Frank Sondors: 00:14:49

but

Vit Muller: 00:14:50

high, high level is a good example of that one.

Vit Muller: 00:14:52

We've got a prospecting tool bill directly in, now we've got a bulk

Vit Muller: 00:14:54

function in there, so I hope you guys know about that one because that one's,

Frank Sondors: 00:14:58

Yeah, so that's a, that's a really good one.

Frank Sondors: 00:15:00

yeah, so this is like the best source, of leads, but it, it depends on, on the

Frank Sondors: 00:15:04

sort of requirement and there's just so, so, so many places you can get the leads.

Frank Sondors: 00:15:08

But, yeah, if you're not really sure, just ask at GPT, just write

Frank Sondors: 00:15:12

down, I, I think, you know, the way that I would do it, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:15:14

So if I'm using high level, you just say, Hey, I'm using high level

Frank Sondors: 00:15:17

and this is who I'm targeting.

Frank Sondors: 00:15:18

what, what are the best?

Frank Sondors: 00:15:19

Where can I get, you know, the best leads and chat.

Frank Sondors: 00:15:21

GPT will typically give you some ideas on that.

Frank Sondors: 00:15:23

And this is just the best way to just use, essentially chat GPT

Frank Sondors: 00:15:26

as a sort of a, a coach maybe.

Frank Sondors: 00:15:28

and so yeah, it helps you then to narrow down which are the, the place you should

Frank Sondors: 00:15:31

look at, because there's just so many ways to pull the lead, but you definitely want

Frank Sondors: 00:15:35

to get the, the right ones because as I said, then it makes a huge difference in

Frank Sondors: 00:15:38

terms of kind of your performance there.

Vit Muller: 00:15:41

Absolutely.

Vit Muller: 00:15:41

Yeah, because then, then you can, you can, if, if they're qualified, like if

Vit Muller: 00:15:45

their quality contacts are real, real data from like through the API through

Vit Muller: 00:15:49

the maps API like, then you're more likely to know, okay, this is a legit email.

Vit Muller: 00:15:53

Would you still recommend to do the verification of emails anyway,

Vit Muller: 00:15:56

like the validated email addresses?

Frank Sondors: 00:15:58

on those?

Frank Sondors: 00:15:59

actually no.

Frank Sondors: 00:16:00

So typically if it's in Google, Google Maps, API, and essentially if they're

Frank Sondors: 00:16:04

on Google, they should be valid.

Frank Sondors: 00:16:06

Like I would not validate those.

Frank Sondors: 00:16:08

however, let's say you have some sort of list lying around and gathering dust.

Frank Sondors: 00:16:12

You have some Excel sheet, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:16:13

Well, it doesn't matter how you got it.

Frank Sondors: 00:16:15

that, that one, yeah, definitely.

Frank Sondors: 00:16:16

Yes.

Frank Sondors: 00:16:17

But the information Google Maps is typically up to date, typically.

Frank Sondors: 00:16:20

So I would not do it.

Frank Sondors: 00:16:22

but if you had a bad experience for whatever reason, like essentially

Frank Sondors: 00:16:25

email's bouncing, then I would definitely do it, the next time round.

Frank Sondors: 00:16:29

But like my first instinct says, okay, go maps.

Frank Sondors: 00:16:31

And go Map's data is typically up to date.

Frank Sondors: 00:16:34

I would not do it.

Frank Sondors: 00:16:35

I don't wanna spend my credits in that.

Frank Sondors: 00:16:36

but if you, yeah, if you have some sort of, if you believe that that data is,

Frank Sondors: 00:16:39

is stale, it's actually, data decay is a big, big problem in the data space.

Frank Sondors: 00:16:43

if data doesn't get refreshed frequently enough, then you always want to validate.

Frank Sondors: 00:16:47

But my typical guidance in any business, typical guidance in any business,

Frank Sondors: 00:16:51

if you want to send out an email to anybody, you always validate always.

Frank Sondors: 00:16:55

Like typically 99% you, you say you always validate, you always

Frank Sondors: 00:16:58

verify because that balance that you're getting from the prospect is

Frank Sondors: 00:17:02

really bad for your infrastructure.

Frank Sondors: 00:17:03

Google is very smart when Google sees high bounce rate and high bounce

Frank Sondors: 00:17:06

rate is literally like over 1%.

Frank Sondors: 00:17:08

If your bouncer is already over 1%, Google is noticing that and Microsoft is noticing

Frank Sondors: 00:17:12

that and it'll negatively impact you.

Frank Sondors: 00:17:15

So, yeah, that's a way, way maybe to look at it.

Vit Muller: 00:17:18

exactly.

Vit Muller: 00:17:18

And guys, just so you understand this is why would Google, app penalize you for it?

Vit Muller: 00:17:22

Well, it kind of makes sense, right?

Vit Muller: 00:17:23

So by sending a lot of emails and then getting a lot of bounces,

Vit Muller: 00:17:27

it's you kind of telling Google, Hey, I'm actually doing cold email.

Vit Muller: 00:17:29

It's a lot easier for 'em to pick it up.

Vit Muller: 00:17:32

And what's really happening with this whole bouncing thing, in my bounce?

Vit Muller: 00:17:35

What does that really mean?

Vit Muller: 00:17:36

Well, that's, somebody had a business and they no longer have it.

Vit Muller: 00:17:40

Maybe they let that domain lapse, the emails no longer existent.

Vit Muller: 00:17:43

Or it could be, it could be that you've got some trap email addresses that are

Vit Muller: 00:17:48

designated, and this is what Google and these big email providers do.

Vit Muller: 00:17:52

They put it out in a marketplace just to, it's like going fishing , you know?

Vit Muller: 00:17:57

And they see if somebody's gonna use that to do cold email.

Vit Muller: 00:17:59

If they do, then it's you've just fallen into that trap too.

Vit Muller: 00:18:02

Literally designated email addresses to catch, called email.

Vit Muller: 00:18:05

I was gonna say spams, we're not all spams.

Vit Muller: 00:18:08

There's a right way to do.

Vit Muller: 00:18:09

I mean, I, I said it in an intro for you as well, so we'll dive, dig

Vit Muller: 00:18:13

into that to make that distinction.

Vit Muller: 00:18:14

But yeah, so you wanna make sure you got legit email addresses that

Vit Muller: 00:18:17

are currently active, being used.

Vit Muller: 00:18:21

and, and they got really good tools out there that can help you validate.

Vit Muller: 00:18:24

I mean, one of the, one of them that you actually may not even realize

Vit Muller: 00:18:28

high level actually does that for you.

Vit Muller: 00:18:30

It validates every e email address that you have.

Vit Muller: 00:18:32

But I wanna make a bit of distinction here, guys.

Vit Muller: 00:18:35

High level is not a software that's good to use for cold email.

Vit Muller: 00:18:41

It's a really good software for everything sales and marketing related.

Vit Muller: 00:18:44

But for cold email, you don't wanna do that because high level

Vit Muller: 00:18:47

doesn't have infrastructure to support different burner domains.

Vit Muller: 00:18:51

Now this is what Frank mentioned.

Vit Muller: 00:18:52

I hope we, I'm not not sure if he caught it at the earlier.

Vit Muller: 00:18:55

He does talk fast.

Vit Muller: 00:18:56

This guy doesn't he?

Vit Muller: 00:18:57

but I know if he, I don't know if he caught it, but, he did say you have

Vit Muller: 00:18:59

to have variations of your domain.

Vit Muller: 00:19:01

This is the crucial bit, right?

Vit Muller: 00:19:03

So like for me, I've got 10 different domains, 10 different variations

Vit Muller: 00:19:06

of my SaaS, white level SaaS.

Vit Muller: 00:19:08

They're now from the back, 10 different variations, and I

Vit Muller: 00:19:10

got three accounts per each.

Vit Muller: 00:19:12

I've got 30 actually, I've got, Now I've got 12 domains and I've got

Vit Muller: 00:19:15

three accounts per each, and I just buy them through, resellers through

Vit Muller: 00:19:19

India because they're cheaper.

Vit Muller: 00:19:20

Otherwise, you're gonna be paying a lot of money.

Vit Muller: 00:19:22

And, one thing I haven't done, it's typing into the outlook.

Vit Muller: 00:19:24

All of mine are just Google Workspace based, but yeah, I've got like 36 of them.

Vit Muller: 00:19:28

I pay for them like two to $3 a month per each account, times 36.

Vit Muller: 00:19:33

You multiply it, it does cost a bit of money plus the software, but

Vit Muller: 00:19:36

yeah, that's, that's kinda what I do.

Vit Muller: 00:19:38

and, and you can't really set that up in high level, so I just wanted

Vit Muller: 00:19:40

to make sure that, that you have that distinction because if you're

Vit Muller: 00:19:43

gonna start doing cold email at mass,

Frank Sondors: 00:19:46

Mm-hmm.

Vit Muller: 00:19:46

you're gonna burn your really good domain.

Vit Muller: 00:19:48

You're gonna burn that one, and, and then you're gonna be crying out loud.

Vit Muller: 00:19:51

So, back to you Frank, where we go from here?

Frank Sondors: 00:19:55

Yeah.

Frank Sondors: 00:19:55

just to kind of double, double down on that.

Frank Sondors: 00:19:57

Yeah, exactly.

Frank Sondors: 00:19:58

So High level is really, really good.

Frank Sondors: 00:20:00

As CRM has a lot of marketing and automation, everything.

Frank Sondors: 00:20:02

it's very good essentially when you're not receiving a lot of spam reports,

Frank Sondors: 00:20:05

essentially from, from the audience, high levels IP infrastructure is

Frank Sondors: 00:20:09

built for not receiving spam reports.

Frank Sondors: 00:20:11

and it highly encourages you actually to never send cold emails, just generally.

Frank Sondors: 00:20:15

So that means this is why you need to, you have something adjacent to hard

Frank Sondors: 00:20:19

level if you want to cold email, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:20:21

So, there's other things naturally that are, you know, that are also important

Frank Sondors: 00:20:26

just generally on top of cold email.

Frank Sondors: 00:20:27

But we always say multi-channel generally is something that you wanna do to maximize

Frank Sondors: 00:20:30

the converse rate with your audience.

Frank Sondors: 00:20:32

So that means, you know, there's the, there's also think about, you know, are

Frank Sondors: 00:20:35

you, are your, prospects potentially on, on social, specifically LinkedIn

Frank Sondors: 00:20:38

or maybe some other social channel?

Frank Sondors: 00:20:40

Could you add that sort of additional sort of touch points

Frank Sondors: 00:20:42

within, within the funnel there?

Frank Sondors: 00:20:44

Then the, the final one, which is more rare maybe to do, is like

Frank Sondors: 00:20:47

doing cold calling as well, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:20:48

So we do all three.

Frank Sondors: 00:20:50

So we see results in all three channels typically.

Frank Sondors: 00:20:52

but the, just to recap on the pillars, so there's four pillars.

Frank Sondors: 00:20:56

We cover the copy pillar, but it's important to send the right, copies to

Frank Sondors: 00:20:59

the right people so it resonates, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:21:01

And people like to respond back.

Frank Sondors: 00:21:02

We covered the infrastructure pillar, why you need multiple domains.

Frank Sondors: 00:21:05

and we covered the data pillar, getting the, the leads, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:21:08

So, and the final one is, is, is the software that you

Frank Sondors: 00:21:12

use to send the cold demos.

Frank Sondors: 00:21:13

And this is where essentially what you mentioned, High level is not

Frank Sondors: 00:21:16

the software to do essentially large scale, outbound, outbound campaigns.

Frank Sondors: 00:21:20

So you need to use, a, any software, whether it's our software or any

Frank Sondors: 00:21:24

other software that does that piece and integrates nicely into high level

Frank Sondors: 00:21:28

and that has a bidirectional sync.

Vit Muller: 00:21:30

and

Frank Sondors: 00:21:30

and.

Vit Muller: 00:21:31

by the way, not a bad thing.

Vit Muller: 00:21:34

That high level doesn't focuses on that, right?

Vit Muller: 00:21:36

Because what is high level really trying to do is provide good quality CRM to

Vit Muller: 00:21:40

help you generate lates, like inbound lates ideally, that you, I mean, when

Vit Muller: 00:21:47

you think about it, like when you do advertising, that's kind of outbound,

Vit Muller: 00:21:50

but it's done through intent or impulse.

Vit Muller: 00:21:52

So people actually do make their own decision to then come through the funnel.

Vit Muller: 00:21:55

So when it comes to doing things the legit way, the, the

Vit Muller: 00:21:59

traditional way of marketing, that's what high level focuses on.

Vit Muller: 00:22:02

You know, cold outreach kind of falls on the outskirts and not everybody kind

Vit Muller: 00:22:05

of feels like that's the right way.

Vit Muller: 00:22:07

it's different, different thoughts about it.

Vit Muller: 00:22:10

It does work though.

Vit Muller: 00:22:11

So, just wanted to make that distinction, right, because high level as same,

Vit Muller: 00:22:15

same goes for HubSpot or Salesforce.

Vit Muller: 00:22:17

All those big companies, they don't do call outreach.

Vit Muller: 00:22:20

They don't, right.

Vit Muller: 00:22:21

They focus on, you have a business, you serve your customers, products,

Vit Muller: 00:22:26

services, you do it well, you advertise, you build reputation, people come to

Vit Muller: 00:22:30

you, and then you have a really good sales and marketing system, like high

Vit Muller: 00:22:33

level that helps you nurture, capture, close remarket and all that stuff.

Vit Muller: 00:22:38

but yeah, for call you have to have a something separate.

Vit Muller: 00:22:41

just wanted, I just thought be good to Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:22:44

Add that little distinction

Frank Sondors: 00:22:45

just the, it boils down to sort of the data architect,

Frank Sondors: 00:22:48

how the software is architect, how it's being built, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:22:50

So, it just needs to be built very differently and it's very hard.

Frank Sondors: 00:22:54

So, no, no c like, no CRM does that, to be honest.

Frank Sondors: 00:22:57

and it's just not a focus area.

Frank Sondors: 00:22:59

The problem, the thing is, yeah, like I mentioned, not everybody does that.

Frank Sondors: 00:23:01

So it applies to like, specific segment of users that wanna do that.

Frank Sondors: 00:23:06

and, and, and because this problem is like very tricky, like delivering emails

Frank Sondors: 00:23:10

in primary and, and all the things that you need to do, that's why there's a

Vit Muller: 00:23:14

It's a lot.

Vit Muller: 00:23:14

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:23:15

Now, it doesn't mean you can't do cold outreach from high level at all.

Vit Muller: 00:23:18

You can, but like you're talking about maybe like 10 businesses a day

Vit Muller: 00:23:22

and you're just writing out a highly

Frank Sondors: 00:23:24

low volume.

Frank Sondors: 00:23:24

Yeah,

Vit Muller: 00:23:25

you know, you're doing, that's fine.

Vit Muller: 00:23:27

But this is not gonna get you much traction, as if you do big volume, which

Vit Muller: 00:23:31

is what, what there's big opportunity.

Vit Muller: 00:23:33

This is why, you know, Frank's got this thing, you know, bring, bring more bacon.

Vit Muller: 00:23:37

So

Frank Sondors: 00:23:38

yeah, exactly.

Frank Sondors: 00:23:39

Bring more, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:23:40

So you already, you know, bring home the bacon through high level, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:23:44

Through the, all the things that you're doing on the, on the

Frank Sondors: 00:23:46

typical marketing funnels, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:23:48

And, and you are looking to bring home more bacon.

Frank Sondors: 00:23:50

So, like I always say, there's you are, if you are on B2B and you have a way to

Frank Sondors: 00:23:55

identify your customers on the internet, you wanna generate this additional,

Frank Sondors: 00:24:00

you know, business, why wouldn't you?

Frank Sondors: 00:24:02

so, it's not smart not to add what, what we call the elbow emotionism

Frank Sondors: 00:24:06

and reaching out code to people.

Frank Sondors: 00:24:09

Just set up the right systems in place and you will be very thankful,

Frank Sondors: 00:24:12

to see, you know, sometimes up to 50% of your revenue will be coming from

Frank Sondors: 00:24:17

outbound, and that's very normal.

Frank Sondors: 00:24:19

To be honest.

Frank Sondors: 00:24:19

A lot of businesses in the US, to be honest, 50% or more of

Frank Sondors: 00:24:22

the revenue is through outbound.

Frank Sondors: 00:24:24

Don't expect people to be always knocking on your doors, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:24:26

And coming to your website, et cetera.

Frank Sondors: 00:24:28

Go and do the outreach.

Frank Sondors: 00:24:29

And what you'll find, by the way, is that your inbound results will

Frank Sondors: 00:24:32

massively improve if you do outbound.

Frank Sondors: 00:24:33

Because what happens is, let's say, I'm gonna send an email to you today.

Frank Sondors: 00:24:38

So you're gonna look at this email and you'll be like, who's this guy Frank?

Frank Sondors: 00:24:41

What is this company?

Frank Sondors: 00:24:41

Salesforce.

Frank Sondors: 00:24:42

So you're gonna go on Google, you'll Google my company, you're gonna go

Frank Sondors: 00:24:45

by SEO to my side, and you check out, oh cool, I like this stuff.

Frank Sondors: 00:24:48

And then you're gonna go and sign up.

Frank Sondors: 00:24:50

And guess what?

Frank Sondors: 00:24:50

In high level it'll say you got a new lead.

Frank Sondors: 00:24:53

You know, but this lead actually came by sending that cold email, actually.

Frank Sondors: 00:24:58

So just to give you an idea, it doing the outreach actually improves

Frank Sondors: 00:25:02

your results on inbound as well.

Frank Sondors: 00:25:04

So I, I like, think of also a bit, the other way I think about like cold

Frank Sondors: 00:25:08

email, any form of outreach is, is, actually in particular cold email and

Frank Sondors: 00:25:10

setting up large cold email systems.

Frank Sondors: 00:25:13

It's, it's like advertising actually.

Frank Sondors: 00:25:15

So what are you advertising through Google and by having banners on websites

Frank Sondors: 00:25:18

or, or, or having ads on Google search?

Frank Sondors: 00:25:21

Well, the email copy that you're sending off, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:25:24

And it is like an ad copy, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:25:26

It's an impression that you generate when an open happens with an email.

Frank Sondors: 00:25:29

It's kinda similar thing.

Frank Sondors: 00:25:30

So in a lot of case so don't always think that from a cold email, you

Frank Sondors: 00:25:33

have to book a, maybe a meeting or particular thing happens.

Frank Sondors: 00:25:36

Sometimes you can think about cold email as a form of advertising your

Frank Sondors: 00:25:39

business, educating your audience, trying to maybe get people, to, to

Frank Sondors: 00:25:43

get to your site essentially, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:25:45

We have a lot of customers, for example, that just send cold

Frank Sondors: 00:25:48

emails just to invite to a webinar.

Frank Sondors: 00:25:49

And that webinar is on the website or it's on a social media

Frank Sondors: 00:25:52

channel or something, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:25:53

So, but they're trying to invite a new audience, to that particular event.

Frank Sondors: 00:25:58

And, and when people sign up, let's say to that webinar, suddenly you're

Frank Sondors: 00:26:01

building a list in, in high level, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:26:03

Of these additional individuals in an extra audience that

Frank Sondors: 00:26:05

you just generated, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:26:06

So, so how can you, you know, increase the audience, you know, size there

Frank Sondors: 00:26:10

is by reaching out to people and, and figuring out how can they opt in, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:26:13

And then you have a bunch of cool, funnels then within a high level, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:26:16

To, to convert them, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:26:18

And so that's how you think you have to think about overall,

Frank Sondors: 00:26:21

overall about your business.

Frank Sondors: 00:26:22

You have naturally this strong inbound funnel, you're adding the

Frank Sondors: 00:26:25

outbound funnel and there could be other funnels as well, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:26:26

So, but these are the very two typical ones in in, in B2B.

Frank Sondors: 00:26:30

So, but just to give you an idea about our operation, right, so we

Frank Sondors: 00:26:34

naturally have set in place we send right now, and that's because we

Frank Sondors: 00:26:38

have a big total just of market.

Frank Sondors: 00:26:39

But we send about 10,000 emails a a week.

Frank Sondors: 00:26:43

That means 40,000 emails a month, roughly, if not more.

Frank Sondors: 00:26:47

That's a lot of emails that you need to send out and to support

Frank Sondors: 00:26:50

that sort of infrastructure.

Frank Sondors: 00:26:51

We have hundreds of email accounts and, and domains to support that scale.

Frank Sondors: 00:26:55

That's the only way to do that really.

Frank Sondors: 00:26:57

It's called horizontal scaling.

Frank Sondors: 00:26:59

Horizontal scaling means setting up these multiple domains and email accounts

Frank Sondors: 00:27:02

and that horizontal scaling it allows you to, and this is why I've also think

Frank Sondors: 00:27:05

about my emails when I'm reaching out to people a bit like advertising, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:27:09

But it is definitely not, not like an ad copy.

Frank Sondors: 00:27:11

the copy doesn't look like an ad copy, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:27:13

But just, just think, how can you educate your audience?

Frank Sondors: 00:27:15

How can you prime your audience?

Frank Sondors: 00:27:17

and the other reason why it's important to scale is because let's say, let's

Frank Sondors: 00:27:22

say on called email, just to give you an idea about reply rates, typical

Frank Sondors: 00:27:24

pilots on called email, if you're doing a good job, is one to 5%.

Frank Sondors: 00:27:28

and the reason why, you need to big systems is because one of the

Frank Sondors: 00:27:31

problems, generally in marketing and sales is that you can't control

Frank Sondors: 00:27:35

the timing once of the best time.

Frank Sondors: 00:27:37

to, let's say reach out to, to, to a customer or to advertise them, et

Frank Sondors: 00:27:40

cetera, because at any given moment in B2B, you only got, I would say, up

Frank Sondors: 00:27:45

to 3% of the individuals in the, in that are in market for your product

Frank Sondors: 00:27:50

or your service only up to 3%.

Frank Sondors: 00:27:52

So if you know these sort of average stats in the market and you can Google

Frank Sondors: 00:27:55

them as well, that you're just not sure, who are these people that are in market

Frank Sondors: 00:27:59

for, what is it that you're selling?

Frank Sondors: 00:28:01

And this is why it's important to be touching base with your

Frank Sondors: 00:28:04

ideal customer once a quarter.

Frank Sondors: 00:28:06

So here's an example.

Frank Sondors: 00:28:08

If my, if my total addressable market is 30,000 businesses that I wanna

Frank Sondors: 00:28:15

reach out to, I typically say that on a monthly basis, these 30,000

Frank Sondors: 00:28:19

businesses, let's say none of them are my customers yet, I would reach out to

Frank Sondors: 00:28:22

a third of my market once a quarter.

Frank Sondors: 00:28:25

So let's say, in January I'll reach out to 10,000 businesses.

Frank Sondors: 00:28:30

And, that's batch one in February, another 10,000 businesses and March

Frank Sondors: 00:28:35

another 10,000 businesses, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:28:36

So I covered all my total adjustable market within the quarter and then

Frank Sondors: 00:28:40

come say April, I gotta go and reprocess my batch one, so the people

Frank Sondors: 00:28:46

that reach out to in, in January.

Frank Sondors: 00:28:48

So if you have this sort of cadence where you are reaching out to a prospect once

Frank Sondors: 00:28:53

a quarter, which means essentially three to four times a year, you're knocking

Frank Sondors: 00:28:57

on doors to your potential customers saying, Hey, do you need my service?

Frank Sondors: 00:29:00

Et cetera, blah, blah, blah.

Frank Sondors: 00:29:01

This is how you're maximizing your overall century pipeline meetings revenue that

Frank Sondors: 00:29:06

you're generating for your business.

Frank Sondors: 00:29:07

And this is a strategy that I highly recommend.

Vit Muller: 00:29:10

I think I know where you're le leading with this.

Vit Muller: 00:29:12

So this is basically the, what you mentioned.

Vit Muller: 00:29:14

So there's only one to 3% are in the market now, right?

Vit Muller: 00:29:18

So you never know when the rest of it is gonna be in the market.

Vit Muller: 00:29:20

So by doing it cyclically, that's how you, you had, you capture the most of those

Vit Muller: 00:29:25

opportunities, potential opportunities.

Vit Muller: 00:29:27

And then the other reason, let me guess, the other reason why you have a bit of a

Vit Muller: 00:29:30

gap is that you don't burn those lists.

Vit Muller: 00:29:32

Otherwise you'd just be, yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:29:34

If you'd be sending out too frequently, then that's it.

Vit Muller: 00:29:36

Like it's game

Frank Sondors: 00:29:36

Exactly.

Frank Sondors: 00:29:37

You'll receive, hmm.

Frank Sondors: 00:29:39

You'll receive spam reports and you are damaging your brand.

Frank Sondors: 00:29:43

spam.

Frank Sondors: 00:29:44

These spam reports will kill your infrastructure, so it'll burn your, you're

Frank Sondors: 00:29:47

damaging your brand potential, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:29:48

If you're too, being too aggressive, like essentially pacing or knowing

Frank Sondors: 00:29:53

the frequency is very important.

Frank Sondors: 00:29:55

So for example, also, how many emails do I send to my customer?

Frank Sondors: 00:29:58

you know, in, in a campaign or a sequence.

Frank Sondors: 00:30:00

And actually the typical answer is two emails maximum.

Frank Sondors: 00:30:03

So you only have the two copies that you can send off, to a customer.

Frank Sondors: 00:30:08

and this is optimal and, and that is very normal.

Frank Sondors: 00:30:10

A lot of people don't want to send like 10 emails in a campaign.

Frank Sondors: 00:30:13

That's not

Vit Muller: 00:30:14

in a follow up sequence and going crazy

Frank Sondors: 00:30:16

Yeah.

Frank Sondors: 00:30:17

Very, very, very crazy.

Frank Sondors: 00:30:18

Yeah.

Frank Sondors: 00:30:19

if you want to have more touch points with a customer, so let's say an email you,

Frank Sondors: 00:30:23

typical recommendation is only two emails, and they have to be very short and snappy.

Frank Sondors: 00:30:27

And in a follow-up email, just give me, essentially provide me

Frank Sondors: 00:30:30

more reasons why I should respond back to in that follow-up email.

Frank Sondors: 00:30:33

So don't be like a, like a nagging wife where you're like,

Frank Sondors: 00:30:36

Hey, any thoughts on this?

Frank Sondors: 00:30:37

Hey, what do you think about this?

Frank Sondors: 00:30:39

so the first email, like typically I would say, the subject line

Frank Sondors: 00:30:42

should talk about the pain that you are addressing for that business.

Frank Sondors: 00:30:45

This is my, you know, just the defaults or framework.

Frank Sondors: 00:30:47

so for example, let's say if I'm in a business to solve your durability

Frank Sondors: 00:30:51

problems, then the, the problem that I'm addressing is email deliverability.

Frank Sondors: 00:30:54

So I can literally put email deliverability, lowercase works very

Frank Sondors: 00:30:57

well, like two words, lowercase, email deliverability as a subject line.

Frank Sondors: 00:31:00

And that's what I would put, that's the problem that I, I I solve you.

Frank Sondors: 00:31:03

So if you have, if you have this problem in the business, you're

Frank Sondors: 00:31:05

likely then to open it, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:31:06

So in particular, and then the email talks about, it doesn't have to talk about

Frank Sondors: 00:31:10

your product to be honest necessarily.

Frank Sondors: 00:31:11

It can just talk about.

Frank Sondors: 00:31:12

The pain that you're solving, and you can ask, Hey, I was just wondering whether

Frank Sondors: 00:31:16

you, your emails are currently landing in spam question mark, you know, and

Frank Sondors: 00:31:21

just doesn't talk about our products.

Frank Sondors: 00:31:22

Right?

Frank Sondors: 00:31:23

You essentially, what you're doing in the, in the outreach is you're

Frank Sondors: 00:31:25

qualifying whether they even have the pain in the first place.

Frank Sondors: 00:31:28

And the idea is you get an answer quickly, yes and no.

Frank Sondors: 00:31:31

do I have this problem or I don't have this problem.

Frank Sondors: 00:31:33

Right?

Frank Sondors: 00:31:33

If you don't, if they don't have this problem, well

Frank Sondors: 00:31:36

there's nothing to sell, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:31:36

So think of this way.

Frank Sondors: 00:31:38

And so that's maybe the other way to,

Vit Muller: 00:31:41

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:31:42

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:31:42

Abso, I mean, you wanna start a conversation.

Vit Muller: 00:31:44

That's what it is.

Vit Muller: 00:31:45

It's just like going out to the bar.

Vit Muller: 00:31:47

you wanna talk to somebody, at the bar.

Vit Muller: 00:31:48

You, you wanna start a conversation.

Vit Muller: 00:31:50

You're not gonna go and, Hey, here, here's, here's my spare key.

Vit Muller: 00:31:53

come to my place after, you know, so it's se sending, oh.

Vit Muller: 00:31:58

I'm gonna ask you, I'm gonna ask you some specifics, like what, what are

Vit Muller: 00:32:01

the good, the big no-nos and stuff, but the one I already know is like in

Vit Muller: 00:32:05

that first gold outreach, you should not be pitching an offer at all.

Vit Muller: 00:32:10

You shouldn't be adding links at all.

Vit Muller: 00:32:12

it's, it should be persuasive copy.

Vit Muller: 00:32:14

It should be building interest for them to be, wanting to follow up and

Vit Muller: 00:32:19

ask you or answer your question always that the email should always, end,

Vit Muller: 00:32:24

end with question as well, right?

Vit Muller: 00:32:26

Ideally, like a yes, no question, that is easy, low, low effort to answer, and

Vit Muller: 00:32:31

then you go into more like this or that question or open-ended question in the

Vit Muller: 00:32:35

follow-ups, or would you recommend having an open-ended question on the first email?

Vit Muller: 00:32:39

I don't know.

Frank Sondors: 00:32:40

in the first email, yes.

Frank Sondors: 00:32:42

And the open-ended question, like you said, is short.

Frank Sondors: 00:32:44

So an example of short, is this a priority question mark?

Frank Sondors: 00:32:48

is this of interest?

Frank Sondors: 00:32:49

open to chat, open to having a quick chat about this.

Frank Sondors: 00:32:52

Just question mark.

Frank Sondors: 00:32:52

Right?

Frank Sondors: 00:32:53

So, So essentially low friction, but in the second follow up email, I

Frank Sondors: 00:32:57

wouldn't, I would have what's called a hard CTA so hard, like hard meaning.

Frank Sondors: 00:33:00

Can we grab 15 minutes next week on Tuesday to chat about this?

Frank Sondors: 00:33:04

And that's what I would do in the second one.

Frank Sondors: 00:33:05

So essentially we where your, you have attempt one in the first email, soft CTA.

Frank Sondors: 00:33:10

Is this a priority?

Frank Sondors: 00:33:10

Yes.

Frank Sondors: 00:33:11

No.

Frank Sondors: 00:33:11

and in the second one, I would just really ask for time.

Frank Sondors: 00:33:14

Some people want to qualify whether this is, something for them or not.

Frank Sondors: 00:33:18

Over email while other people actually like to jump on the

Frank Sondors: 00:33:21

call and you're not sure.

Frank Sondors: 00:33:23

How do they prefer to, to assess whether there's an opportunity here or not?

Frank Sondors: 00:33:27

whether there can problem that can be solved and some people

Frank Sondors: 00:33:28

really wanna jump on the call.

Frank Sondors: 00:33:30

So in the second email, I would do a hard CTA, but in the second email, I

Frank Sondors: 00:33:33

will not actually try and talk about the same problem necessarily, if my

Frank Sondors: 00:33:37

product solves multiple problems.

Frank Sondors: 00:33:40

Then I would try and mention a second problem, that my product may be solving or

Frank Sondors: 00:33:44

my other pro, pro product may be solving.

Frank Sondors: 00:33:46

So let's say now case we have seven products.

Frank Sondors: 00:33:48

so the way I think about it, imagine you have multiple services that you're

Frank Sondors: 00:33:50

offering or multiple things that you're offering to the same ideal customer.

Frank Sondors: 00:33:54

So I would start with maybe the, the first problem, that we're

Frank Sondors: 00:33:57

solving for them in email one.

Frank Sondors: 00:33:58

And I'll ask them a question whether I have this problem,

Frank Sondors: 00:34:00

you could mention the product.

Frank Sondors: 00:34:02

This is the product we have that could solve that problem,

Frank Sondors: 00:34:04

and they don't respond, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:34:05

And I typically say one email a week.

Frank Sondors: 00:34:07

So I would just send one email in week one and email two the follow up e in week two.

Frank Sondors: 00:34:12

The reason why I don't send a second email in week one is because sometimes

Frank Sondors: 00:34:15

people just very busy in week one or they're on holidays, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:34:18

So just don't like sending two.

Frank Sondors: 00:34:20

if you have especially smaller total addressable market, you're

Frank Sondors: 00:34:23

better off sending that next week.

Frank Sondors: 00:34:24

And then next week I'll, I'll talk about problem two or product two

Frank Sondors: 00:34:27

or service two that I have, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:34:28

So it's just a different angle, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:34:30

So, and you'll find that like by trying to have these.

Frank Sondors: 00:34:34

Two different angles, or two different problems mentioned, or two

Frank Sondors: 00:34:37

different pro products mentioned.

Frank Sondors: 00:34:38

You're maximizing your chances of reply.

Frank Sondors: 00:34:41

And so once you're done with these two emails and you don't get the replies

Frank Sondors: 00:34:44

and you feel very sad, this is why you, you transition to another channel.

Frank Sondors: 00:34:47

So this is where, for example, we would go on LinkedIn and we would, start with a

Frank Sondors: 00:34:51

LinkedIn connection request, and we would start with, initial, message on LinkedIn.

Frank Sondors: 00:34:56

And the, so the messages on LinkedIn are very different to email and on

Frank Sondors: 00:34:59

LinkedIn it's literally just a one liner.

Frank Sondors: 00:35:00

It's a question and it'll be something along the lines of I don't even, I'm

Frank Sondors: 00:35:04

not gonna even mention the first name.

Frank Sondors: 00:35:06

It's Hey, good to connect.

Frank Sondors: 00:35:07

I was just wondering whether you have any email deliverability issues right now.

Frank Sondors: 00:35:10

Question mark.

Frank Sondors: 00:35:11

And this is what, what literally I send today on LinkedIn and and then it fire

Frank Sondors: 00:35:17

off a second message essentially, and again in week two, so you can see that.

Frank Sondors: 00:35:22

So I, I would, my typical approach is sending two emails.

Frank Sondors: 00:35:25

Yeah, in emails you have liability problems.

Frank Sondors: 00:35:27

So yes, like you mentioned, no links.

Frank Sondors: 00:35:29

you can also remove HTML, that's another kind of strategy.

Vit Muller: 00:35:32

a plain text.

Vit Muller: 00:35:33

Yeah.

Frank Sondors: 00:35:34

yeah, always do what's called, yeah, plain text.

Frank Sondors: 00:35:36

No, HTML, no links.

Frank Sondors: 00:35:38

signature is very like plain as well.

Frank Sondors: 00:35:40

Like first name,

Vit Muller: 00:35:41

No, no.

Vit Muller: 00:35:42

Click here to unsubscribe.

Frank Sondors: 00:35:44

Yes.

Frank Sondors: 00:35:45

yes.

Frank Sondors: 00:35:46

So you, you and you, you can make a, like a funny unsubscribed piece of text,

Frank Sondors: 00:35:50

like at about ps I do something like, I dunno, you just gotta make something up.

Frank Sondors: 00:35:53

Hey, if, if this wasn't relevant, please tell me, to go away and I'll go

Frank Sondors: 00:35:58

and see my email doctor or whatever.

Frank Sondors: 00:36:00

you can make it funny, think of it this way, if people read your email copy,

Frank Sondors: 00:36:04

yes, it wasn't interest, whatever.

Frank Sondors: 00:36:05

But there's something funny about the email, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:36:07

You can make it funny.

Frank Sondors: 00:36:08

it wasn't a good line, but you put that in the PS section, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:36:10

So.

Frank Sondors: 00:36:11

To essentially to opt out, but you make it very funny and then

Frank Sondors: 00:36:13

people actually respond to you.

Frank Sondors: 00:36:15

The reason why responses matter on email is because getting any form of

Frank Sondors: 00:36:19

reply, even a negative reply, is good for your email deliverability any reply.

Frank Sondors: 00:36:24

so just say something that will make them respond.

Frank Sondors: 00:36:28

And sometimes it's just a funny line in the PS section, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:36:31

So do you capitalize on my ps?

Vit Muller: 00:36:33

if you don't want my bacon, I'll pass it on to someone else.

Vit Muller: 00:36:36

Just let me

Frank Sondors: 00:36:36

yes.

Frank Sondors: 00:36:37

Yeah, something like ps if you, if you're not looking to bring home more

Frank Sondors: 00:36:40

bacon, I assume you're a vegetarian, like some, I don't know, you, you

Frank Sondors: 00:36:44

can definitely make money, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:36:45

So I need to think about it.

Frank Sondors: 00:36:46

I assume you're a vegetarian and in that case we shouldn't be doing business.

Frank Sondors: 00:36:49

you know, you can definitely spice things up.

Frank Sondors: 00:36:52

but what is it that you can say?

Frank Sondors: 00:36:53

So, my sales rep do it really funny actually.

Frank Sondors: 00:36:54

I, I've seen some of the PS lines and because communication or outreach or

Frank Sondors: 00:36:59

whatever, it doesn't have to be boring.

Frank Sondors: 00:37:00

It doesn't have to be it.

Frank Sondors: 00:37:02

I always say spice things up.

Frank Sondors: 00:37:03

Try to be, try to, to do in a way that feels like a pattern interrupt, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:37:06

Because people get a lot of emails, they get a lot of link and messages, but how

Frank Sondors: 00:37:09

can you stand out in the inbox, right in the noise of all the emails you can.

Frank Sondors: 00:37:14

So you start with a simple thing, like a subject line, lowercase.

Frank Sondors: 00:37:17

Every single, every single letter is lowercase.

Frank Sondors: 00:37:20

because all the automation softwares, you know, don't do that.

Frank Sondors: 00:37:22

So it feels, you know, that's already, that is a pattern interrupt.

Frank Sondors: 00:37:25

You know, what else could I do, you know?

Frank Sondors: 00:37:27

to make it look like just all different, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:37:29

So, and people do respond to that.

Frank Sondors: 00:37:32

save on LinkedIn as well, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:37:33

So make it funny.

Frank Sondors: 00:37:34

sometimes on LinkedIn, what I like to do, is provide something, for example,

Frank Sondors: 00:37:38

something that's free of value.

Frank Sondors: 00:37:40

It doesn't have to be on LinkedIn.

Frank Sondors: 00:37:40

It could be also an email.

Frank Sondors: 00:37:42

and I will do that in an email in a second.

Frank Sondors: 00:37:44

so the follow up email, so the second email, and same on LinkedIn actually.

Frank Sondors: 00:37:47

So the value that you could provide, let's say we are in the outreach space, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:37:52

So we help people to, to bring home more vacant, meaning book more meetings,

Frank Sondors: 00:37:55

during more revenue, et cetera.

Frank Sondors: 00:37:57

And one of the things I would do is, is try to provide value, but it

Frank Sondors: 00:38:01

feels odd to do that in the first email because you're like, ah, you

Frank Sondors: 00:38:05

never do that in the first message.

Frank Sondors: 00:38:06

It, it always feels like odd.

Frank Sondors: 00:38:07

You're like, you, you, you're smelling the sales, breath here, a bit.

Frank Sondors: 00:38:10

So you definitely do wanna do that in a second follow-up e message.

Frank Sondors: 00:38:13

And, and one thing that I would do is something that would be typical, what

Frank Sondors: 00:38:17

people typically would do is learn about outreach, how to outreach on YouTube.

Frank Sondors: 00:38:21

So I do a lot of different webinars maybe, or I would just make a video and

Frank Sondors: 00:38:26

I would just put it on YouTube and, and something that's of high, high value that

Frank Sondors: 00:38:30

literally I'm, I'm telling you everything.

Frank Sondors: 00:38:32

Everything, literally on, on how to do, let's say, LinkedIn outreach really well.

Frank Sondors: 00:38:35

So we did it, for example, last week, with my sales rep, one hour long,

Frank Sondors: 00:38:41

masterclass on how to do LinkedIn outreach really, really well.

Frank Sondors: 00:38:45

And so we talked about everything literally.

Frank Sondors: 00:38:46

You can talk about social selling, how many profiles you need and a

Frank Sondors: 00:38:49

whole bunch of different things.

Frank Sondors: 00:38:50

And we would put that video in the follow-up emails.

Frank Sondors: 00:38:53

It's Hey, if you're, if you're doing, LinkedIn outreach at

Frank Sondors: 00:38:56

any point, here's a really good masterclass on, on how to do this.

Frank Sondors: 00:39:00

And some people will say, wow, this is really cool.

Frank Sondors: 00:39:02

I learned something really nice.

Frank Sondors: 00:39:04

and so people will, reciprocate, by, you know, responding back saying,

Frank Sondors: 00:39:09

yes, I would love to check this out.

Frank Sondors: 00:39:11

And and, and then sometimes they'll say, no, this is not of interest to us.

Frank Sondors: 00:39:15

But I have a friend of mine.

Frank Sondors: 00:39:17

That would definitely love this stuff, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:39:18

So, so try to provide value without maybe sometimes asking anything in

Frank Sondors: 00:39:22

return that also can work really well.

Frank Sondors: 00:39:24

So just being in the mindset of always, I would say AB testing, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:39:28

so especially if you have never done outreach, you, you don't

Frank Sondors: 00:39:30

know what, what's gonna work.

Frank Sondors: 00:39:32

So if that is, and so the typical strategy is okay, I have a, this

Frank Sondors: 00:39:35

my big total adjustable market.

Frank Sondors: 00:39:36

I don't know what's gonna work, but at least I gonna test these,

Frank Sondors: 00:39:39

maybe, I dunno, three to five, maybe different copies styles, you know,

Frank Sondors: 00:39:44

pain points I'm gonna try and address.

Frank Sondors: 00:39:46

And then you'll find that after a few weeks, one or two out of

Frank Sondors: 00:39:50

let's say five variants, different messages works really well.

Frank Sondors: 00:39:54

So you just double down on that, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:39:55

And you kill the other one, other copies that don't work really well.

Frank Sondors: 00:39:59

so yeah, that's not a tip.

Frank Sondors: 00:40:00

Like always be, you know, testing, trying to find what really

Frank Sondors: 00:40:04

works for you, what resonates.

Frank Sondors: 00:40:06

And you'll find some, some assets, videos or some copies, specific angles, like what

Frank Sondors: 00:40:11

really, really magically well, so yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:40:15

Now at the beginning we talked about like the importance of

Vit Muller: 00:40:18

the, the copy needs to be unique per each, for each, email you send it

Vit Muller: 00:40:22

to, or, or especially with email.

Vit Muller: 00:40:24

maybe, maybe it's not as important.

Vit Muller: 00:40:27

With LinkedIn you can be more of a same copy of LinkedIn.

Vit Muller: 00:40:30

Okay.

Frank Sondors: 00:40:30

exactly.

Frank Sondors: 00:40:31

The reason for that is because on email, Google uses Gemini to associate,

Frank Sondors: 00:40:36

essentially, you know, if this domain is receiving spam reports,

Frank Sondors: 00:40:39

then they start looking at content.

Frank Sondors: 00:40:41

And when they see it's the same content that gets spam reports,

Frank Sondors: 00:40:44

they start sending you to spam.

Frank Sondors: 00:40:46

the only re, the only so it's good for durability, but if you have a very

Frank Sondors: 00:40:49

strong offer, that means whatever you, whatever your offer is in the market,

Frank Sondors: 00:40:52

it's so strong and a lot of people positively respond for that strong offer.

Frank Sondors: 00:40:56

You don't need to use AI because.

Frank Sondors: 00:40:59

If you're gonna get a lot of replies, we're talking about a lot of replies

Frank Sondors: 00:41:01

coming back, a lot of replies means over 5% of people are responding back to you.

Frank Sondors: 00:41:05

A lot of the positive replies saying, well definitely I want this, et cetera.

Frank Sondors: 00:41:09

You don't need to use the eye.

Frank Sondors: 00:41:10

'cause you have a super, super strong offer where you have so much positive

Frank Sondors: 00:41:14

engagement coming from the other audience and you don't need to use

Frank Sondors: 00:41:17

the, but that's not typically the case.

Frank Sondors: 00:41:19

Like 90% of businesses do not have strong offers.

Frank Sondors: 00:41:22

Whatever is it they're trying to sell is not a good offer.

Frank Sondors: 00:41:25

so you need to do you, you know that you're gonna receive spam reports and this

Frank Sondors: 00:41:28

is why you want to use AI then a bit more.

Frank Sondors: 00:41:30

But there are some companies I know.

Frank Sondors: 00:41:32

Where they don't need to use, ai, at all.

Frank Sondors: 00:41:34

I'll give you one example, maybe in my case when I would not use AI at all.

Frank Sondors: 00:41:38

So it it has to do with the fact that I know who is in this

Frank Sondors: 00:41:42

list that I'm targeting, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:41:43

So let's say imagine I, I got a bunch of leads and these leads.

Frank Sondors: 00:41:47

I, what, what is my typical strategy, for example, in the business?

Frank Sondors: 00:41:49

So I think one thing I mentioned is I have over a hundred competitors and I

Frank Sondors: 00:41:53

have the ability to extract the followers of my competitors on social media.

Frank Sondors: 00:41:58

So I know that these people are following my competitor, and I

Frank Sondors: 00:42:01

know that in this list there are a lot of what's called super fans or

Frank Sondors: 00:42:04

potential customers of my competitor.

Frank Sondors: 00:42:07

And if I'm very certain that my product is better and or cheaper,

Frank Sondors: 00:42:11

faster, whatever that is, then I know how should I address this audience?

Frank Sondors: 00:42:16

What should be my angle?

Frank Sondors: 00:42:17

Because I know why we are better.

Frank Sondors: 00:42:20

I can, I can drill down on this pain point of my competitor and

Frank Sondors: 00:42:23

position my product better, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:42:24

So I don't need to use ai.

Frank Sondors: 00:42:25

Because my reply rates will be very high, and that is literally the case.

Frank Sondors: 00:42:29

So whenever I'm doing the outreach done to this audience via email on

Frank Sondors: 00:42:33

LinkedIn, I have 20 to 40% reply rates.

Frank Sondors: 00:42:35

Pretty much very, it's very stable.

Frank Sondors: 00:42:37

that's because, you know, I'm targeting my competitor's accounts.

Frank Sondors: 00:42:40

I'm, I'm trying to position my product better.

Frank Sondors: 00:42:42

you are likely to switch over from competitive software over to mine,

Frank Sondors: 00:42:46

and I don't need to use AI for that.

Frank Sondors: 00:42:48

But when I have a, what's called a weaker list, what is a weaker list?

Frank Sondors: 00:42:51

I just gonna go to some, you know, random place and pull a lot of low leads.

Frank Sondors: 00:42:55

for example, like head of sales, I'm just gonna target head of

Frank Sondors: 00:42:57

sales and I don't have anything, you know, a really good angle.

Frank Sondors: 00:43:03

You could position your product in a hundred different

Frank Sondors: 00:43:04

ways, like that's an example.

Vit Muller: 00:43:06

what they're using.

Vit Muller: 00:43:07

They might not have even been with the competitor, like the nothing.

Frank Sondors: 00:43:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Frank Sondors: 00:43:11

So I typically say any, any list is better than like a generic list.

Frank Sondors: 00:43:14

so if you have a way to find a list that nobody's targeting or you have a very

Frank Sondors: 00:43:18

strong angle, that competitors are using.

Frank Sondors: 00:43:20

So they're using competitor, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:43:22

Or, like there's something, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:43:24

So you have a good angle that you can, use to write a good copy.

Frank Sondors: 00:43:28

Always do that, always, because these lists perform so, so much better than

Frank Sondors: 00:43:33

some sort of generic list that you pull.

Frank Sondors: 00:43:35

So, again, just to give an example, yes, we can extract email addresses from

Frank Sondors: 00:43:39

Google Maps, but then potentially your competitors are also doing that, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:43:41

They're extracting the same email address.

Frank Sondors: 00:43:43

And in sales, when you're doing outreach, you always wanna reach out to people

Frank Sondors: 00:43:46

that nobody else is reaching out, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:43:48

Because you're the only then company that's sending them an email.

Frank Sondors: 00:43:51

No other competitors are reaching out.

Frank Sondors: 00:43:52

So who are the people that's, nobody else is reaching out.

Frank Sondors: 00:43:54

How can you find that list?

Frank Sondors: 00:43:55

Where can you find it?

Frank Sondors: 00:43:57

sometimes you, maybe you need to scrape whatever, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:43:58

Whatever, however that is.

Frank Sondors: 00:44:00

So you need to be creative and you always have to think, where are my customers?

Frank Sondors: 00:44:03

and that's how, that's the mindset that I'm in always.

Frank Sondors: 00:44:06

because I know my competitors are reaching out to my, my, you know, customers,

Frank Sondors: 00:44:10

for example, stuff like that, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:44:11

So, and always think outside a box.

Frank Sondors: 00:44:13

Try to think and, How do I generate, like where do I get really, really good lists

Frank Sondors: 00:44:18

that nobody else is typically reaching out

Vit Muller: 00:44:20

I, I just watched the, I dunno if you guys seen this movie on Netflix,

Vit Muller: 00:44:24

the, the grand charisma, based on the real story, you know, market, it's all about

Vit Muller: 00:44:29

creative marketing and even sometimes creating markets altogether if the

Vit Muller: 00:44:33

market doesn't exist for it yet, right?

Vit Muller: 00:44:36

So in the movie, the, the head of marketing guy for Nissan, he goes,

Vit Muller: 00:44:41

well, we've got electric cars.

Vit Muller: 00:44:43

A lot of people are it's not like it used to be.

Vit Muller: 00:44:45

A lot of people are not passionate about, sports cars and all that.

Vit Muller: 00:44:49

So we need to find a new market.

Vit Muller: 00:44:51

And he goes, there is one market, there is, there's sim racers, simulator, right?

Vit Muller: 00:44:55

People who play these computer games, big fans and and egos like,

Vit Muller: 00:44:59

there's actually quite a lot of them.

Vit Muller: 00:45:01

It goes into millions.

Vit Muller: 00:45:02

and they are the ones who always.

Vit Muller: 00:45:04

Like, why would they, why are they playing these games?

Vit Muller: 00:45:07

Like they, they're fans of driving those cars.

Vit Muller: 00:45:09

So wouldn't it be quite likely to be true that, they would, they might be

Vit Muller: 00:45:14

dreaming about actually having that real car as well in their garage to drive it.

Vit Muller: 00:45:18

So he goes, well, what are we gonna do?

Vit Muller: 00:45:20

Which we are gonna do competition and we're gonna get some of these

Vit Muller: 00:45:22

sim races to raise a real car.

Vit Muller: 00:45:25

And we are gonna, and we're gonna pick the best one, and then we're gonna put

Vit Muller: 00:45:28

'em into the actual real world races.

Vit Muller: 00:45:30

And true story.

Vit Muller: 00:45:31

Not kidding.

Vit Muller: 00:45:32

Go check it out.

Vit Muller: 00:45:33

It's on Netflix.

Vit Muller: 00:45:34

There is a guy, Jen, sorry, Jan. I forgot his last name, Jan. But he

Vit Muller: 00:45:40

wins, he wins the Leman, or I think he plays his third, but LeMans 24 hour

Vit Muller: 00:45:45

race, one of the most like physically mentally challenging races in the world.

Vit Muller: 00:45:49

And you know, he goes against the grain, you know, like the, the whole

Vit Muller: 00:45:52

industry, ah, you're a sim racer.

Vit Muller: 00:45:54

go back to your room and go play.

Vit Muller: 00:45:56

And yeah, but he wins it.

Vit Muller: 00:45:57

And so the whole tactic that the Nissan marketing the head of

Vit Muller: 00:46:01

marketing guy had was, if we can show their dream, could be a reality.

Vit Muller: 00:46:06

Then, now we are addressing that market and then we can increase the number of

Vit Muller: 00:46:10

sales of our, sports cars and Nissan cars.

Vit Muller: 00:46:12

So, yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:46:12

So just back to what you're saying, like you just be creative.

Vit Muller: 00:46:15

Don't be like, you know, so like blunt, straight up, sometimes you have

Vit Muller: 00:46:19

to go around or, or look at trends.

Vit Muller: 00:46:22

What's happening and is that, and, and is that relating and like figuring

Vit Muller: 00:46:26

out a clever segues to your copy.

Vit Muller: 00:46:28

And that's how you also stand out.

Vit Muller: 00:46:30

Like especially if you're selling marketing services.

Vit Muller: 00:46:33

If you can do creative marketing, then your customers will realize,

Vit Muller: 00:46:36

oh, well you got me this way.

Vit Muller: 00:46:39

This is very creative.

Vit Muller: 00:46:40

So that means if you do marketing for me, that most likely be creative as well.

Vit Muller: 00:46:45

So yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:46:46

So it's, that's what it's Right.

Frank Sondors: 00:46:47

I have a, yeah, we have a similar story also, like maybe I

Frank Sondors: 00:46:52

could just mention with high level, so.

Vit Muller: 00:46:53

yeah.

Frank Sondors: 00:46:54

you know, we exist in, we are been around

Frank Sondors: 00:46:56

so for coming three years now.

Frank Sondors: 00:46:58

And, we were thinking like, who, which CM should we integrate, et cetera.

Frank Sondors: 00:47:02

and we're like, damn, everybody talks about these, typical top

Frank Sondors: 00:47:05

CRMs like Salesforce and HubSpot.

Frank Sondors: 00:47:06

I was like, okay, we're gonna integrate with them, but we're trying

Frank Sondors: 00:47:09

to figure out, okay, which CRMs are like really strong CRMs, but not

Frank Sondors: 00:47:13

maybe as many people know about 'em, but they really need what we do.

Frank Sondors: 00:47:18

And that's high level if for damn, like high level is really

Frank Sondors: 00:47:21

like a very strong CRM, has, it's a top, top CRM in the world.

Frank Sondors: 00:47:25

And, and just like any other CRM, yeah, it doesn't do a lot of, cold emailing.

Frank Sondors: 00:47:30

What if we could build.

Frank Sondors: 00:47:31

The, compatible kind of stack with high level, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:47:34

So, that people will see a lot of benefit and I bet there's a lot of people that

Frank Sondors: 00:47:37

would do cold email by, and then we thought to ourselves, and then we started

Frank Sondors: 00:47:40

to kind of maybe brand it a bit more where like the high level for outbounds.

Frank Sondors: 00:47:43

So if you wanna do anything outbound related, you would use

Frank Sondors: 00:47:46

us in tandem with high level.

Frank Sondors: 00:47:47

so that's my just kinda, thinking through my head, why we decided

Frank Sondors: 00:47:51

to, to integrate with GHL.

Frank Sondors: 00:47:52

Because we also thought it's not very usual to do cold email, but there,

Frank Sondors: 00:47:55

there's plenty of people that would want to have extra bacon essentially, through

Frank Sondors: 00:47:59

an album motion, by sending cold emails or doing LinkedIn very well, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:48:03

So, and yeah, that, that's how also we think like how can we unlock essentially

Frank Sondors: 00:48:07

a new market, where maybe it's not typical to, to send cold emails, et cetera, but.

Frank Sondors: 00:48:13

but it can be essentially, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:48:16

So, and so that's why we think about what typically, like in our

Frank Sondors: 00:48:19

lens, we think about an integration partner or, yeah, something else.

Frank Sondors: 00:48:24

But yeah, it kind of reminds me of this sort of story, how we would unlock a,

Frank Sondors: 00:48:28

a a a market, maybe that that is not typical or it's not, it doesn't feel like,

Frank Sondors: 00:48:33

it's a typical, let's say, integration like with HubSpot, Salesforce, like

Frank Sondors: 00:48:35

which are the other kind of companies I could integrate with to unlock a,

Frank Sondors: 00:48:39

a significant sort of user segment.

Frank Sondors: 00:48:41

but it's not typical.

Frank Sondors: 00:48:42

it is not a saying in business.

Frank Sondors: 00:48:44

you probably have heard that as well while they zig wee zag, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:48:47

So while all the competitors and everybody's going off this

Frank Sondors: 00:48:51

in, in this swimming lane.

Frank Sondors: 00:48:53

Nobody is going after this swimming lane, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:48:55

So, and now, now our line of business is not just integration

Frank Sondors: 00:48:58

partners, it's actually also markets.

Frank Sondors: 00:49:00

So for example, most of our competitors and us, what we do is we

Frank Sondors: 00:49:03

all go into the Yes market, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:49:04

It's the biggest software market in the world.

Frank Sondors: 00:49:07

But then you, what you wanna do, if you're very smart in business, you

Frank Sondors: 00:49:10

wanna analyze, okay, what are the top markets like for software in the world?

Frank Sondors: 00:49:14

And you, you realize when you look at the top list of companies, sorry, countries,

Frank Sondors: 00:49:18

is that there are markets like Japan in there, and Japan buys a lot of software.

Frank Sondors: 00:49:23

and then you start to think about to yourself, oh, none of

Frank Sondors: 00:49:26

my competitors are in Japan.

Frank Sondors: 00:49:28

What if we would just localize the software and we just start

Frank Sondors: 00:49:30

selling our software in Japan?

Frank Sondors: 00:49:32

right.

Frank Sondors: 00:49:32

So that's an example of where, you know, while there's Zig, we Z So

Frank Sondors: 00:49:37

you essentially go into territories where you have no competition,

Frank Sondors: 00:49:41

you're the only, play in the market.

Frank Sondors: 00:49:43

Yes, there's a barrier to entry, localization, et cetera.

Frank Sondors: 00:49:45

And you just go in.

Frank Sondors: 00:49:47

and that, that

Vit Muller: 00:49:47

you're absolutely

Vit Muller: 00:49:48

right.

Vit Muller: 00:49:49

You're absolutely right.

Vit Muller: 00:49:50

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:49:50

I spoke to made mind.

Vit Muller: 00:49:51

he's now looking at getting into the Indian market.

Vit Muller: 00:49:54

'cause the population is huge.

Vit Muller: 00:49:56

Huge, right?

Vit Muller: 00:49:57

With the right offer.

Vit Muller: 00:49:58

It's a untapped market for a lot of these things.

Vit Muller: 00:50:01

So, yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:50:02

Brilliant.

Vit Muller: 00:50:02

Now I wanna talk to you about this LinkedIn strategy.

Vit Muller: 00:50:04

So I, I mean, me personally, I know how the cold email works,

Vit Muller: 00:50:07

and I think we've done the job on that, explaining to the guys.

Vit Muller: 00:50:10

I hope you guys have been taking notes, by the way, we'll have

Vit Muller: 00:50:13

an offer, so keep on listening.

Vit Muller: 00:50:15

Frank does have an offer, so you get to find out a little

Vit Muller: 00:50:17

bit more about it through that.

Vit Muller: 00:50:19

but a LinkedIn outreach, just from the technical standpoint,

Vit Muller: 00:50:22

how do you set that up?

Vit Muller: 00:50:24

how do you do it so that you don't get banned?

Vit Muller: 00:50:26

because LinkedIn, every platform has some rules and they wanna make sure

Vit Muller: 00:50:30

that they, they stay a quality platform.

Vit Muller: 00:50:32

And how do you do it?

Vit Muller: 00:50:34

what's the process to make it work?

Vit Muller: 00:50:37

Because I don't know much about it.

Frank Sondors: 00:50:40

Yeah.

Frank Sondors: 00:50:40

So, LinkedIn is very, very tough because LinkedIn naturally is meant

Frank Sondors: 00:50:44

to be, and is, a social network.

Frank Sondors: 00:50:48

right, so the idea the, you don't really scale on LinkedIn.

Frank Sondors: 00:50:52

typically now, the only way you scale on LinkedIn is just like you scale

Frank Sondors: 00:50:56

on, on, called email is through a concept called horizontal scaling.

Frank Sondors: 00:51:01

So if there are all limitations on a domain level or email level or

Frank Sondors: 00:51:05

LinkedIn profile, level, then the only way to increase the number

Frank Sondors: 00:51:09

of, the, the output level is true.

Frank Sondors: 00:51:11

More of the same.

Frank Sondors: 00:51:12

That means more LinkedIn profiles.

Frank Sondors: 00:51:14

So a typical sales person or business owner would just use their own

Frank Sondors: 00:51:18

LinkedIn profile, but imagine if you had at your disposal suddenly five

Frank Sondors: 00:51:23

profiles, 10 profiles, 20 profiles.

Frank Sondors: 00:51:25

Sometimes some companies have a hundred profiles.

Frank Sondors: 00:51:28

Then that means this is how you scale digitally.

Frank Sondors: 00:51:30

and the way that it works in Salesforce is.

Frank Sondors: 00:51:33

You, you can connect not just unlimited email accounts, but you can also

Frank Sondors: 00:51:36

connect unlimited LinkedIn profiles.

Frank Sondors: 00:51:38

So the thought process is that you connect at least your whole team

Frank Sondors: 00:51:41

from your company into the software, and you're leveraging essentially

Frank Sondors: 00:51:44

the capacity of each of the profile.

Frank Sondors: 00:51:46

So the capacity of a typical, LinkedIn profile is you can, connect up to a

Frank Sondors: 00:51:50

hundred people on the weekly basis, one LinkedIn profile, and that's a

Frank Sondors: 00:51:54

very typical human behavior that you connect to up to a hundred per week.

Frank Sondors: 00:51:57

And, and then it LinkedIns will cap cap you, out essentially it'll, send

Frank Sondors: 00:52:01

you this warning saying, that's it.

Frank Sondors: 00:52:02

You're done for the week.

Frank Sondors: 00:52:03

See you next week, kind of for another a hundred, connections.

Frank Sondors: 00:52:06

So the only way to go beyond a hundred, on a typical kind of behavior con organic

Frank Sondors: 00:52:10

behavior is, is using, multiple profiles.

Frank Sondors: 00:52:13

So in our case, an example, I have about 20.

Frank Sondors: 00:52:17

LinkedIn profiles.

Frank Sondors: 00:52:18

That means, with 20 LinkedIn profiles I can connect with 2000 individuals.

Frank Sondors: 00:52:22

And a typical stat that you get is like you connect with, let's say 2000

Frank Sondors: 00:52:25

individuals or even a lower volume.

Frank Sondors: 00:52:27

You, you acceptance rate is about 40 to 50%.

Frank Sondors: 00:52:30

So only half the people actually accept you as a connection.

Frank Sondors: 00:52:35

And then out of that, when you actually send a message to them,

Frank Sondors: 00:52:39

the reply rates are anywhere between 10 to 50%, somewhere in that range.

Frank Sondors: 00:52:44

But, but if I would narrow it down, and in our case like 20 to 40% in our case,

Frank Sondors: 00:52:49

but it can be as low as 10 typically, but as high as sort of 50, if you're doing a,

Frank Sondors: 00:52:53

a really good job, really good targeting.

Frank Sondors: 00:52:55

and the reason why LinkedIn is a crucial, crucial component of your outreach is

Frank Sondors: 00:52:59

because something I was mentioning, you know, so for every positive reply that

Frank Sondors: 00:53:02

you're getting on, called email, even though it scales much, much better, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:53:06

And you can drum up a lot of in absolute numbers on LinkedIn, eh, it's, you know,

Frank Sondors: 00:53:11

two, three positive replies for every.

Frank Sondors: 00:53:14

Call, email, post reply.

Frank Sondors: 00:53:16

so especially if your total addressable market is tiny, like you need to add

Frank Sondors: 00:53:20

more channels, into the equation to actually, increase the conversion

Frank Sondors: 00:53:23

rate and, and get to the numbers that you're looking to get to, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:53:25

So it's super, super important, LinkedIn and, and small markets.

Frank Sondors: 00:53:29

And, yeah, so horizontal scaling, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:53:32

So multiple LinkedIn profiles.

Frank Sondors: 00:53:33

Typically it's your team, that you're using.

Frank Sondors: 00:53:36

but it could be also your, you know, your wife, your, your parents.

Frank Sondors: 00:53:40

Just, just ask anybody who's not using a LinkedIn.

Frank Sondors: 00:53:42

There's a bunch of people, most people on LinkedIn don't

Frank Sondors: 00:53:44

use their profiles actually.

Vit Muller: 00:53:45

okay?

Frank Sondors: 00:53:45

a,

Vit Muller: 00:53:46

there another way?

Vit Muller: 00:53:47

Is there another way to get those profiles as well?

Frank Sondors: 00:53:50

there are, there are definitely ways.

Frank Sondors: 00:53:52

So one way could be to rent profiles.

Frank Sondors: 00:53:55

Actually, you are renting literally profiles from other humans.

Frank Sondors: 00:53:59

so they don't use their profile and they're happy to rent their

Frank Sondors: 00:54:03

profile and their identity.

Frank Sondors: 00:54:04

And essentially to you, it's like hiring a sales rep, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:54:07

You're paying a sales rep like a few thousand bucks a month.

Frank Sondors: 00:54:10

And yes, you also get their profile.

Frank Sondors: 00:54:12

and then the sales rep will do, send some emails and do some

Frank Sondors: 00:54:14

cocos, but you could just rent some profiles from real other humans.

Frank Sondors: 00:54:17

So there are companies that do that.

Frank Sondors: 00:54:18

We don't, we don't offer that.

Frank Sondors: 00:54:19

But, there are companies that do that, and that helps you then to

Frank Sondors: 00:54:22

rent from other people, profile.

Frank Sondors: 00:54:24

And it, it is a business to be honest out there.

Frank Sondors: 00:54:26

And that, that's like the only way to, to figure out how to actually

Frank Sondors: 00:54:29

increase the number of profiles.

Frank Sondors: 00:54:31

But if you're, if you're serious about LinkedIn and reaching out

Frank Sondors: 00:54:34

on social, I always say you need a minimum, a minimum of five profiles,

Frank Sondors: 00:54:38

at least in, in your outreach system.

Frank Sondors: 00:54:41

five is the minimum.

Frank Sondors: 00:54:42

Optimally 10, and you will, you will see the difference.

Frank Sondors: 00:54:46

It's a huge, huge difference to your result if you're able to do

Frank Sondors: 00:54:49

the actual outreach to multitude of different profiles on top of the

Frank Sondors: 00:54:53

cold email activity that you do.

Frank Sondors: 00:54:54

And a typical multi-channel sort of sequence or campaign setup is because

Frank Sondors: 00:54:59

cold edema scales better, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:55:00

And you are able to buy, you know, what, 12, 12 domains and, and, and so many

Frank Sondors: 00:55:04

more mailboxes, like super easily and pay some money, whatever, off you go.

Frank Sondors: 00:55:07

and you could even scale more if you want, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:55:09

You.

Frank Sondors: 00:55:09

And so, because you can scale easier, you always typically

Frank Sondors: 00:55:13

wanna start with email as a first.

Frank Sondors: 00:55:15

these two, step one, initial email, step two, follow up email, and then

Frank Sondors: 00:55:18

you go over to LinkedIn, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:55:19

So because LinkedIn doesn't scale that well, you always wanna keep LinkedIn,

Frank Sondors: 00:55:23

as a phase two of your outreach.

Frank Sondors: 00:55:26

and that will minimize, if you're doing email, that will minimize

Frank Sondors: 00:55:28

the need to actually connect with peoples and messages, et cetera.

Frank Sondors: 00:55:31

But, today, based on everything that we're seeing in the market.

Frank Sondors: 00:55:35

LinkedIn and if, if your customers are on LinkedIn, you have to deal LinkedIn.

Frank Sondors: 00:55:38

You have to figure out how to do that.

Frank Sondors: 00:55:39

you'll be thankful to me later by implementing the LinkedIn strategy.

Frank Sondors: 00:55:44

it is tougher than setting up called email mailbox, but I believe it is doable.

Frank Sondors: 00:55:47

maybe you're not gonna solve in the week how to get the profiles

Frank Sondors: 00:55:50

and how to set up, et cetera.

Frank Sondors: 00:55:51

but you will be able to, it's definitely a bit of a process.

Frank Sondors: 00:55:54

Like how can increase pro, have another profile, add it, whatever.

Frank Sondors: 00:55:58

but the other thing that you need to do to increase, you know, just

Frank Sondors: 00:56:01

generally performance LinkedIn, you also need to make sure you are

Frank Sondors: 00:56:03

optimizing the LinkedIn profile.

Frank Sondors: 00:56:05

so, that means, you know, how there, there's, I could talk about it, like for

Frank Sondors: 00:56:09

now, how to optimize LinkedIn profile, but like everything from having a banner,

Frank Sondors: 00:56:12

to optimizing, the headline and what goes into your, the job history, many things.

Frank Sondors: 00:56:17

it's definitely a bit of work.

Frank Sondors: 00:56:19

I, it's typically, sometimes do like a training session issue for an hour.

Frank Sondors: 00:56:22

to, to optimize that.

Frank Sondors: 00:56:23

And actually leads me to the one final thing I wanna say around

Frank Sondors: 00:56:26

how do you get more profiles?

Frank Sondors: 00:56:28

So we do this growth hack, I don't typically share this, but I'm

Frank Sondors: 00:56:31

gonna share it, here, like a growth hack, how to get LinkedIn profiles.

Frank Sondors: 00:56:35

So you have to think about, who are the people in the world that

Frank Sondors: 00:56:38

don't really need their profiles?

Frank Sondors: 00:56:40

And yes, generally speaking, you could say a lot of people don't use LinkedIn

Frank Sondors: 00:56:42

profiles as well, but there are segments of the, of the population that don't

Frank Sondors: 00:56:47

really have a need for their profile.

Frank Sondors: 00:56:50

And one of them is students.

Frank Sondors: 00:56:53

Students in local universities and colleges.

Frank Sondors: 00:56:55

Don't really need approvals.

Frank Sondors: 00:56:57

They're busy studying whatever, but they did create their profile.

Frank Sondors: 00:57:00

But one of the things that students know is in order to get a job in the

Frank Sondors: 00:57:04

proper company, well proper, whatever the proper company is, let's say they

Frank Sondors: 00:57:07

want to work in some corporate company or some tech company, some startup like

Frank Sondors: 00:57:11

ours, et cetera, they that a lot of them will agree, most of them, like 99%

Frank Sondors: 00:57:15

would agree that if you have a strong LinkedIn profile, it increases your

Frank Sondors: 00:57:19

probability of actually landing a job.

Frank Sondors: 00:57:22

With that company, whatever the company they're applying for.

Frank Sondors: 00:57:25

So students are definitely, motivated to improve their LinkedIn profile

Frank Sondors: 00:57:29

standing, but they are very lazy.

Frank Sondors: 00:57:31

They're not gonna do a lot of work, and they're looking for

Frank Sondors: 00:57:34

hacks of how to improve their essentially brand on LinkedIn.

Frank Sondors: 00:57:39

so here's the hack that we did earlier this year, because we thought

Frank Sondors: 00:57:42

ourselves, damn, there could be a bunch of students where, where we

Frank Sondors: 00:57:44

could use their profiles to actually maybe, add them to, to, to our pool.

Frank Sondors: 00:57:48

And we actually did that.

Frank Sondors: 00:57:49

So what we did is we went to local, university careers Fair, to a few

Frank Sondors: 00:57:54

universities and we just literally paid for a stand, like a few hundred bucks.

Frank Sondors: 00:57:59

And, and, and we, the only thing we were advertising at that stand is, join

Frank Sondors: 00:58:02

our free LinkedIn bootcamp where we're gonna optimize your LinkedIn profile.

Frank Sondors: 00:58:07

For a couple hours, literally a two hour session on how to

Frank Sondors: 00:58:10

optimize your LinkedIn profile.

Frank Sondors: 00:58:12

And, and together with that bootcamp, you also gotta get free pizza.

Frank Sondors: 00:58:16

Very important.

Frank Sondors: 00:58:17

Students are all about free pizza.

Frank Sondors: 00:58:18

You wanna make sure that it's part, you have the free pizza.

Frank Sondors: 00:58:21

Guess what?

Frank Sondors: 00:58:21

Over a hundred students turned up to the session and they were listening for two

Frank Sondors: 00:58:26

hours and how to optimize the profile.

Frank Sondors: 00:58:28

Some of them want to get an internship, et cetera.

Frank Sondors: 00:58:31

But one of the things that we said, and, and it's, it is true,

Frank Sondors: 00:58:34

is that you need to have at least 500 to a thousand connections on

Frank Sondors: 00:58:39

your profile, to look credible.

Frank Sondors: 00:58:41

Otherwise, if you have below 500, you look like a bot.

Frank Sondors: 00:58:44

There's also some bots on LinkedIn, so, you, you wanna look credible, you need

Frank Sondors: 00:58:48

to have at least 500 plus connections.

Frank Sondors: 00:58:50

It's like a, you know, check mark.

Frank Sondors: 00:58:51

You are a legit human.

Frank Sondors: 00:58:52

and so everybody in the table knows that, but students are lazy to connect

Frank Sondors: 00:58:55

with a lot of people, et cetera.

Frank Sondors: 00:58:57

So at the end of the boot camp, you're saying, Hey, here's an offer two,

Frank Sondors: 00:59:01

essentially the offer two is what's we call the LinkedIn accelerator offer.

Frank Sondors: 00:59:04

So we said, you need to have at least 500 connections, and guess what?

Frank Sondors: 00:59:07

All of them have less than a hundred connections.

Frank Sondors: 00:59:10

And we said if you, so the way that we could help you grow your connections

Frank Sondors: 00:59:14

is by connecting to our software.

Frank Sondors: 00:59:16

And we would use your profiles to connect to a lot of CEOs, CMOs, whatever,

Frank Sondors: 00:59:19

salespeople and stuff like that.

Frank Sondors: 00:59:21

And essentially, what you're doing is value exchange.

Frank Sondors: 00:59:24

So by, by getting the profile where you don't pay anything for that in,

Frank Sondors: 00:59:27

at least in our case, we connected the profile to our LinkedIn profile page.

Frank Sondors: 00:59:31

We branded the profile and everything, optimized it, and we're able to use the

Frank Sondors: 00:59:35

profile, as at least six to 12 months.

Frank Sondors: 00:59:38

Um.

Frank Sondors: 00:59:39

without any issues to generate a bunch of meetings for ourselves.

Frank Sondors: 00:59:42

And what the student gets is these additional connections,

Frank Sondors: 00:59:46

them growing the network.

Frank Sondors: 00:59:47

So there's fair value exchange.

Frank Sondors: 00:59:49

You didn't have to pay any field to the profile, you just

Frank Sondors: 00:59:51

managed some communication.

Frank Sondors: 00:59:52

And that's not a sort of go hack, but it could be any, segment.

Frank Sondors: 00:59:56

but there are universities everywhere, right?

Frank Sondors: 00:59:57

So you can kind of replicate us if you

Vit Muller: 00:59:59

like it.

Vit Muller: 00:59:59

It's clever.

Frank Sondors: 01:00:01

so it's other segment spot, right?

Frank Sondors: 01:00:02

So, so, so yeah, just kind of think about outside the box, what can you do to,

Frank Sondors: 01:00:06

to generate these additional profiles.

Frank Sondors: 01:00:07

But that's the really, the only way, there's no other ways really to, to drum

Frank Sondors: 01:00:11

up, more replies than she on LinkedIn.

Vit Muller: 01:00:13

Okay, so that's where the, the barrier to entry is the profiles.

Vit Muller: 01:00:16

Now

Frank Sondors: 01:00:17

Hmm.

Vit Muller: 01:00:18

you mentioned six to 12 months.

Vit Muller: 01:00:19

Why wouldn't you keep going with that arrangement longer?

Vit Muller: 01:00:22

I was just wondering, is it because the profiles burn or what's the goal?

Frank Sondors: 01:00:27

No, they don't burn at all.

Frank Sondors: 01:00:29

what happened, the six to 12 months, like these students like have to commit.

Frank Sondors: 01:00:33

So we typically tell them, Hey, can you commit to at least six to 12 months?

Frank Sondors: 01:00:36

So, it depends who, like we say, six months, sometimes you gotta say 12 months.

Frank Sondors: 01:00:40

six months feels like a, a easy yes.

Frank Sondors: 01:00:44

12 months feels like a stretch.

Frank Sondors: 01:00:45

but what, what has happened so far?

Frank Sondors: 01:00:47

None of the students have disconnected their profile.

Frank Sondors: 01:00:50

actually, no, I'm sorry, I'm lying.

Frank Sondors: 01:00:51

There is one student that did a disconnected profile, but the rest didn't.

Frank Sondors: 01:00:54

So that means majority, 90 plus percent of students are totally

Frank Sondors: 01:00:58

happy to keep on increasing the number of connections and they feel

Frank Sondors: 01:01:01

like they're getting value for free.

Frank Sondors: 01:01:03

so they keep on having them in, that pool.

Frank Sondors: 01:01:05

somebody early on this week told me, well, why don't you do it

Frank Sondors: 01:01:08

with not a big population segment?

Frank Sondors: 01:01:09

so if you're looking after students, like where the profiles typically

Frank Sondors: 01:01:12

created, what about later on, like elderly people and and elderly people.

Frank Sondors: 01:01:16

I don't think elderly people would do that, but think of any segment,

Frank Sondors: 01:01:19

essentially population, where there's a lot of profiles and you can builda system

Frank Sondors: 01:01:23

where you are, building the, or accumulate or onboarding people and, and using them.

Frank Sondors: 01:01:28

The reason why you wanna do this, why don't you just rent

Frank Sondors: 01:01:31

the profiles, is because renting a profile, is anywhere between a

Frank Sondors: 01:01:35

hundred to 150 bucks per profile.

Frank Sondors: 01:01:37

And, and that means, if you're getting, if you're renting like 10

Frank Sondors: 01:01:40

profiles, it's quite a huge cost.

Frank Sondors: 01:01:42

and if you're getting

Vit Muller: 01:01:42

That's a monthly and that's a monthly fee.

Vit Muller: 01:01:44

You're talking monthly.

Vit Muller: 01:01:45

, Frank Sondors: yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:01:45

It's a monthly fee.

Vit Muller: 01:01:47

And, and you could do that if you don't want, but a lot of businesses

Vit Muller: 01:01:50

can't afford like a thousand bucks or whatever, 2000 bucks per month paying.

Vit Muller: 01:01:54

Just for profiles, I always would say, you don't have to if you, if you're being

Vit Muller: 01:01:58

smart and if you, if you figure out how to get profiles for free, but, the, as

Vit Muller: 01:02:02

I said, the easiest profiles to get, additional ones is, is just ask your, your

Vit Muller: 01:02:05

wife, your girlfriend, your mom and dad.

Vit Muller: 01:02:07

These are the easiest profile.

Vit Muller: 01:02:08

And if every employee in the company just could do that and could get like

Vit Muller: 01:02:12

one or two extra profiles, but if you're struggling and many businesses

Vit Muller: 01:02:15

are struggling, because they have a big total adjustable markets and

Vit Muller: 01:02:18

there's a lot of people to reach out to either renting or growth

Vit Muller: 01:02:21

hacking are the two on the, options.

Vit Muller: 01:02:24

I have not heard anything else, in the market that that will work.

Vit Muller: 01:02:27

And, there's no other option really.

Vit Muller: 01:02:29

Because horizontal scaling is the only answer to actually

Vit Muller: 01:02:33

seeing a lot of replies.

Vit Muller: 01:02:35

And just to give you an idea, how many replies we get on a daily basis is 200

Vit Muller: 01:02:40

to 400 replies every day by having 20 plus, LinkedIn profiles right now and

Vit Muller: 01:02:48

like 400 email accounts right now.

Vit Muller: 01:02:50

What I have, and this is one human, this is just me, by the way.

Vit Muller: 01:02:53

I have other people under my company, but I'm talking actually here

Vit Muller: 01:02:56

about just my own data, by the way.

Vit Muller: 01:02:57

so the Frank's data, or Frank's workspace essentially in Salesforce

Vit Muller: 01:03:01

generates 200 to 400 replies right now.

Vit Muller: 01:03:03

This is the largest workspace that we have, but I also have sales reps and

Vit Muller: 01:03:07

they have their own stuff happening, you know, and they're doing their own things.

Vit Muller: 01:03:10

But, yeah, and what we generate right now.

Vit Muller: 01:03:12

naturally across the business, like over 600 roughly meetings on a monthly basis.

Vit Muller: 01:03:16

so we, we have built this sort of machine and, but about 30%, maybe 40% of the

Vit Muller: 01:03:21

business does come through outbound.

Vit Muller: 01:03:22

So a lot of that from Salesforce are software.

Vit Muller: 01:03:23

The other 60% comes from the inbound.

Vit Muller: 01:03:26

So this is where you can think, like high level gives you 60% of the bacon.

Vit Muller: 01:03:30

The forge gives you 40%, as an example, how can you split?

Vit Muller: 01:03:32

So there's definitely a lot of bacon that you can make on by just reaching

Vit Muller: 01:03:35

out to people, so you never discount the, it's a stupid thing to do if you don't

Vit Muller: 01:03:40

do anything when it comes to outreach.

Vit Muller: 01:03:41

Stupid things to do.

Vit Muller: 01:03:42

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:03:43

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:03:44

I've got more questions, right?

Vit Muller: 01:03:46

So, uh, this LinkedIn thing, it's, it sounds pretty powerful.

Vit Muller: 01:03:51

now doing all this outreach at scale, let's say you've got those 10

Vit Muller: 01:03:55

accounts, that's a lot of manual work.

Vit Muller: 01:03:58

I assume that's where you leverage Salesforce for

Vit Muller: 01:04:00

footage, your platform for it.

Vit Muller: 01:04:02

can you explain how that works on the backend?

Vit Muller: 01:04:04

How easy it is?

Vit Muller: 01:04:05

What does it do?

Vit Muller: 01:04:06

Because I, I have no idea.

Vit Muller: 01:04:08

yeah.

Frank Sondors: 01:04:09

Yeah.

Frank Sondors: 01:04:09

so because on LinkedIn you don't have the, the requirement to sort of, to warm up the

Frank Sondors: 01:04:14

infrastructure, anything, it's super easy.

Frank Sondors: 01:04:15

You set up Salesforce, you go into the software, you connect the profile, you,

Frank Sondors: 01:04:19

so you can invite these users to connect the profiles in the, in the workspace.

Frank Sondors: 01:04:22

And, and connection takes, you know, a few minutes just to connect one

Frank Sondors: 01:04:26

profile and, we connect all 10 and or whatever, however many you want.

Frank Sondors: 01:04:30

the beautiful thing about Salesforce is that we don't charge per profile.

Frank Sondors: 01:04:33

all the other softwares in the market, they charge per, per profile, like

Frank Sondors: 01:04:36

$50 to a hundred dollars per month.

Frank Sondors: 01:04:38

So that's just another example of a cost.

Frank Sondors: 01:04:39

damn, there's a cost to use a software to automate.

Frank Sondors: 01:04:42

In our case, we just don't charge per profile.

Frank Sondors: 01:04:44

We charge for the actual usage.

Frank Sondors: 01:04:45

if you're actually sending like dms on LinkedIn or

Frank Sondors: 01:04:48

connecting, we charge for that.

Frank Sondors: 01:04:49

But that is like much cheaper for any company, like by 20 to 50%.

Frank Sondors: 01:04:53

But yeah, anyway, you connect and profile and you could start

Frank Sondors: 01:04:56

immediately sending, to be honest, there's no research in there.

Frank Sondors: 01:04:59

there's nothing to think about.

Frank Sondors: 01:05:00

The only thing I would say is what are you optimizing on LinkedIn for?

Frank Sondors: 01:05:03

So I'm optimizing for having this sort of social communication, just

Frank Sondors: 01:05:06

like it's on WhatsApp, et cetera.

Frank Sondors: 01:05:07

So it has to be very light, very conversational, right?

Frank Sondors: 01:05:10

The other thing that you can think of, why would you use LinkedIn?

Frank Sondors: 01:05:14

Is, is part of our strategy and we actually have a whole masterclass on

Frank Sondors: 01:05:17

this, is you are connecting with your ideal customers, but you're not, you're

Frank Sondors: 01:05:21

not actually DMing them about anything.

Frank Sondors: 01:05:24

Sometimes maybe you can just DM and just give them free value, as well.

Frank Sondors: 01:05:27

Maybe something that's could be valuable, et cetera.

Frank Sondors: 01:05:29

We can test that out.

Frank Sondors: 01:05:30

but the reason why we're connecting with a lot of the ideal customer profiles,

Frank Sondors: 01:05:34

thousands of people every single week is because I, I, I do a lot of content.

Frank Sondors: 01:05:38

So if you go to my profile today, Frank Saunders, the guy with the

Frank Sondors: 01:05:41

bacon emoji, you will see my feature section, the type of content I

Vit Muller: 01:05:45

I was gonna ask.

Vit Muller: 01:05:45

Yeah, you get a lot of comments.

Vit Muller: 01:05:48

you have a post two days ago, 433 comments, 174 likes, that's

Vit Muller: 01:05:54

a, a lot of engagement that you're getting, so yeah, let's.

Frank Sondors: 01:05:58

Yeah, but I'm targeting with my content, my ideal customer.

Frank Sondors: 01:06:01

But you need to connect with these ideal customers, right?

Frank Sondors: 01:06:04

and because LinkedIn caps you every week, you need to consistently

Frank Sondors: 01:06:07

connect with your ideal customers.

Frank Sondors: 01:06:09

And then you do what's called social selling, right?

Frank Sondors: 01:06:12

So you educate them with your content and you're trying to, build valuable content.

Frank Sondors: 01:06:17

And we, what, what is valuable?

Frank Sondors: 01:06:20

Well, if you have engagement on your post, you have people liking

Frank Sondors: 01:06:22

it, people commenting, that means they finding value in that.

Frank Sondors: 01:06:25

Great.

Frank Sondors: 01:06:25

Try and do more of that, right?

Frank Sondors: 01:06:27

And, and then you are warming up your audience, right?

Frank Sondors: 01:06:30

You're warming up your audience maybe for weeks, months.

Frank Sondors: 01:06:33

And then when you actually reach out to them with the cold email

Frank Sondors: 01:06:35

or the dm, guess what conversion rates are through the roof.

Frank Sondors: 01:06:40

Because you warmed up the audience.

Frank Sondors: 01:06:41

They know who Frank is, they know what the Forge does.

Frank Sondors: 01:06:45

they like your content potentially, and they wouldn't mind to jump

Frank Sondors: 01:06:48

on the call to actually finally check out your software, right?

Frank Sondors: 01:06:51

Because we've been feeding them with good content consistently week out.

Frank Sondors: 01:06:55

you know, we can week out and feeding consistently in my case

Frank Sondors: 01:06:59

because a lot of my ideal customer, ideal customers are on LinkedIn.

Frank Sondors: 01:07:03

I'm trying to do like once a day, Monday to Friday, typically.

Frank Sondors: 01:07:06

Sometimes I'll do it during the weekend, but like literally once a day.

Frank Sondors: 01:07:10

And it is tough, to be honest, to figure out what content to produce.

Frank Sondors: 01:07:13

but I'm a founder.

Frank Sondors: 01:07:13

I'm a CEO, right?

Frank Sondors: 01:07:14

So I can share some content, maybe what's happening in the business, you

Frank Sondors: 01:07:16

know, trying to educate the audience how to do LinkedIn, maybe cold email,

Frank Sondors: 01:07:20

maybe talk about deliverability, not landing spam, email copy.

Frank Sondors: 01:07:23

So I have quite a few topics.

Frank Sondors: 01:07:25

I'm trying to recycle some of the topics.

Frank Sondors: 01:07:27

if you want the most sophisticated way to generate content on LinkedIn, the most

Frank Sondors: 01:07:31

sophisticated way is to, to transcribe your conversations with your customers

Frank Sondors: 01:07:36

over a meeting and use these transcripts to generate content on LinkedIn.

Frank Sondors: 01:07:42

This is probably the most powerful way, the most valuable way, because you're

Frank Sondors: 01:07:46

taking the meat from the conversation, the outputs of the conversation, of your

Frank Sondors: 01:07:50

idea customers, and you are passing and then you're amplifying that to the other.

Frank Sondors: 01:07:54

to the, to the net new ICPs or ideal customers on LinkedIn.

Frank Sondors: 01:07:59

Super powerful.

Frank Sondors: 01:08:00

this is the most sort of programmatic way I would put,

Frank Sondors: 01:08:02

probably would say, to do that.

Frank Sondors: 01:08:04

It can be set up as a thing.

Frank Sondors: 01:08:05

Super, super powerful.

Frank Sondors: 01:08:07

but if I have one, yeah, go.

Vit Muller: 01:08:10

I was gonna follow up on that one.

Vit Muller: 01:08:11

This is literally, and this is my little secret, but I

Vit Muller: 01:08:13

guess I'll, I'll share as well.

Vit Muller: 01:08:15

so by providing value, it's doing podcasting.

Vit Muller: 01:08:18

So I've got another podcast.

Vit Muller: 01:08:19

Now.

Vit Muller: 01:08:19

This one is for high level community, right?

Vit Muller: 01:08:21

And it's positioning, it's making more connection.

Vit Muller: 01:08:24

It's speaking to people like you, learning about new cool things

Vit Muller: 01:08:27

to implement in my stack and, and for you guys to learn as well.

Vit Muller: 01:08:31

but I also have another podcast that I used to run called Success Inspired,

Vit Muller: 01:08:34

and it was just conversations with local business owners through BNI and going

Vit Muller: 01:08:38

to them and saying, Hey, you probably never been on a podcast before, but

Vit Muller: 01:08:41

you luck, you run a local business.

Vit Muller: 01:08:45

Would you like me to interview you on the podcast?

Vit Muller: 01:08:47

I'll create a bunch of content.

Vit Muller: 01:08:48

We'll, we'll create a bunch of content together.

Vit Muller: 01:08:51

I'm sure you've got something to say that would be valuable and then you

Vit Muller: 01:08:54

can share it in your local market.

Vit Muller: 01:08:57

And you're gonna position yourself.

Vit Muller: 01:08:58

'cause a lot of people in your local market, they might know you, but now

Vit Muller: 01:09:01

you're gonna raise your credibility, your profile, 'cause you talk about it.

Vit Muller: 01:09:04

but really what what I'm doing is I'm building a relationship

Frank Sondors: 01:09:08

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:09:08

and I'm learning, learning about what they do.

Vit Muller: 01:09:10

And they might also say some talk about some setbacks and some weaknesses in their

Vit Muller: 01:09:15

business, which gives me a, a, an opening.

Vit Muller: 01:09:17

After recording, I can go back to them and say, Hey, look, you know, that thing

Vit Muller: 01:09:20

you mentioned, we actually can help that.

Vit Muller: 01:09:23

But on top of that I can take the transcript and do

Vit Muller: 01:09:27

what you just said as well.

Vit Muller: 01:09:28

Repurpose it, create content.

Frank Sondors: 01:09:31

The one thing, just to spice things up here is one thing I've

Frank Sondors: 01:09:35

learned from, an another, sales rep, well, that's called LinkedIn influencer.

Frank Sondors: 01:09:38

It, it's not just about educating the audience, doesn't matter what

Frank Sondors: 01:09:41

it is, but it's more important about a edutaining the audience.

Frank Sondors: 01:09:47

So how can you craft a post or experience on social in a way that when you're

Frank Sondors: 01:09:54

consuming it, you're having a good time, but you're also learning along the way.

Vit Muller: 01:09:58

Yeah,

Frank Sondors: 01:09:59

So,

Vit Muller: 01:09:59

clever.

Frank Sondors: 01:10:00

we do a lot of creative stuff and we

Frank Sondors: 01:10:02

actually invest a lot of time.

Frank Sondors: 01:10:03

How can we educate audience?

Frank Sondors: 01:10:05

How can we make it funny?

Frank Sondors: 01:10:06

How can we spice things up?

Frank Sondors: 01:10:08

so one of the LinkedIn posts, you probably have not seen it,

Vit Muller: 01:10:10

I've seen it.

Vit Muller: 01:10:11

The Wolf of All Street one.

Vit Muller: 01:10:13

Is that what you're talking

Frank Sondors: 01:10:13

no, actually no.

Frank Sondors: 01:10:14

There's one with Margaret.

Frank Sondors: 01:10:15

Robbie.

Frank Sondors: 01:10:16

I was in the bathtub, a few weeks back, and I was talking about, you

Frank Sondors: 01:10:20

know, a problem that exists in the data space and how we address that.

Frank Sondors: 01:10:23

And I was literally in the bathtub talking about it.

Frank Sondors: 01:10:25

I'll send that later to you.

Frank Sondors: 01:10:27

and so I'm talking about this problem, and then by the end of it, I'm

Frank Sondors: 01:10:30

explaining how we would solve that.

Frank Sondors: 01:10:33

But I'm, we are taking, we're taking, you know, a, a scene from

Frank Sondors: 01:10:36

a movie, with somebody famous so you can resonate with it quickly.

Frank Sondors: 01:10:40

But in that bathtub, it's me and you definitely, it is a definite pattern up

Frank Sondors: 01:10:45

when you're seeing that on your LinkedIn.

Frank Sondors: 01:10:48

You're like, I'm not sure what I'm looking at.

Frank Sondors: 01:10:50

So what could be the pattern interrupt from entertainment standpoint?

Frank Sondors: 01:10:54

So lead, like sometimes you can think of it this way, sometimes you

Frank Sondors: 01:10:57

can lead with the en entertainment first kind of approach, but as

Frank Sondors: 01:11:02

you're getting entertained on LinkedIn, you learn something

Vit Muller: 01:11:06

Yeah,

Frank Sondors: 01:11:06

and

Vit Muller: 01:11:07

strong hook.

Vit Muller: 01:11:07

The, the what?

Vit Muller: 01:11:08

The hell?

Frank Sondors: 01:11:10

yeah, yeah.

Frank Sondors: 01:11:10

Pattern drop, like super strong.

Frank Sondors: 01:11:12

That is very hard to master.

Frank Sondors: 01:11:13

And I have literally a team for this.

Frank Sondors: 01:11:16

So, there's a combination of a couple of people there.

Frank Sondors: 01:11:18

I have the head of YouTube, so my, my, I have a person that

Frank Sondors: 01:11:20

does a lot of YouTube videos.

Frank Sondors: 01:11:21

He does a lot of the shooting part, but the head of growth comes up with the ideas

Frank Sondors: 01:11:25

and what to do, how to spice things up.

Frank Sondors: 01:11:27

And we are trying to go viral on LinkedIn once a month at least.

Frank Sondors: 01:11:31

So we do invest quite a, a bit of time into this, to just to, yeah.

Frank Sondors: 01:11:35

spice things up, because it doesn't matter what the feed is, the

Frank Sondors: 01:11:38

Facebook feed, the, whatever the feed is, how can you be, you know.

Frank Sondors: 01:11:43

The pattern trip.

Frank Sondors: 01:11:44

How can, because you'll have a much stronger, what's called brand

Frank Sondors: 01:11:47

recall on your brand for years.

Frank Sondors: 01:11:50

People literally, after five years will say, oh wow, I remember that

Frank Sondors: 01:11:53

video from from five years ago.

Frank Sondors: 01:11:54

There's another kind of thing that we did on, on April 1st, for example,

Frank Sondors: 01:11:58

where I told you the whole LinkedIn audience that I was cooking the books

Frank Sondors: 01:12:02

and I got fired by the board and a lot of people on LinkedIn believed me, that

Frank Sondors: 01:12:07

I got fired and I got literally like over 500 dms from new investors even,

Frank Sondors: 01:12:12

whatever, current investors, whatever.

Frank Sondors: 01:12:14

I didn't even tell to the current investors, about the post and literally

Frank Sondors: 01:12:17

of April Fools just said I got fired.

Frank Sondors: 01:12:19

And if that went viral, that was the number one post, of, of this year.

Frank Sondors: 01:12:24

so this year I was fired.

Frank Sondors: 01:12:25

And to be honest, it literally took us, took me and my co-founders,

Frank Sondors: 01:12:28

we agreed to this, night before.

Frank Sondors: 01:12:30

In an hour.

Frank Sondors: 01:12:30

We drafted the post, we faked the news article as well.

Frank Sondors: 01:12:33

So we did that as well.

Frank Sondors: 01:12:35

We make it like really, that, was real.

Frank Sondors: 01:12:37

but yeah, some, in that case, the goal was nothing.

Frank Sondors: 01:12:40

Not to talk about Producting, et cetera, but just, just do, ultimately

Frank Sondors: 01:12:45

do employer branding, we call it.

Frank Sondors: 01:12:46

so how can we go viral with a story but justify how do we,

Frank Sondors: 01:12:52

how can we push it, you know?

Frank Sondors: 01:12:53

And I think on April Fools, you can just do whatever, literally,

Frank Sondors: 01:12:57

whatever, and they, and people, but it has to sound like crazy.

Frank Sondors: 01:13:00

Again, a patent truck, right?

Frank Sondors: 01:13:01

You got fired by the board.

Frank Sondors: 01:13:03

Back in those days, there were a lot of companies were.

Frank Sondors: 01:13:06

Where things were not going well, and we thought, let's just spice things up

Frank Sondors: 01:13:08

and let's just say I also got fired.

Frank Sondors: 01:13:10

You know?

Frank Sondors: 01:13:10

there were other CEOs that were getting fired and I was like,

Frank Sondors: 01:13:12

ah, we also gotta get fired.

Frank Sondors: 01:13:13

Let's do that.

Frank Sondors: 01:13:14

so yeah, and literally we just came up with it, night before.

Frank Sondors: 01:13:17

Took us like an hour or two just to put it together, the post links

Frank Sondors: 01:13:19

and post, and we generated I think 300,000 impressions, over 500

Frank Sondors: 01:13:24

messages, people reaching out to us.

Frank Sondors: 01:13:26

definitely.

Frank Sondors: 01:13:27

And, and you know, I speak to people even today and everybody remembers

Frank Sondors: 01:13:30

that post the April Fools joke.

Frank Sondors: 01:13:32

Everybody remembers it.

Frank Sondors: 01:13:33

So it's very important to work on your brand, on top of, the,

Frank Sondors: 01:13:38

just, having a like, direct impact from your outreach, right?

Frank Sondors: 01:13:40

How can you, in tandem, apart from like expecting direct response from every

Frank Sondors: 01:13:45

individual, like compound the brand effect on how do you ensure you have a

Frank Sondors: 01:13:49

stronger brand recall, essentially, on your brand and any other competitor?

Frank Sondors: 01:13:54

Right.

Frank Sondors: 01:13:54

So yeah, so there's a lot of 'em.

Frank Sondors: 01:13:56

So, yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:13:57

I love it, mate.

Vit Muller: 01:13:58

This is, we broke it down.

Vit Muller: 01:13:59

The whole strategy.

Vit Muller: 01:14:00

This is very engineered and very effective.

Vit Muller: 01:14:03

So you're getting all those LinkedIn profiles you're doing.

Vit Muller: 01:14:05

Let me just sum it up for you guys as well.

Vit Muller: 01:14:07

It's just a real summary and see if I got it right.

Vit Muller: 01:14:10

You getting those accounts, you're doing this outreach, you get, you getting this

Vit Muller: 01:14:13

connections by connecting with people.

Vit Muller: 01:14:15

People on LinkedIn, when you post content, they're gonna be seeing it on

Vit Muller: 01:14:19

their feed because, you know, LinkedIn shows it to a certain percentage.

Vit Muller: 01:14:22

If they're not in your contact connections, they

Vit Muller: 01:14:24

may not see it, obviously.

Vit Muller: 01:14:25

so then you amplify that through good content, through vial content.

Vit Muller: 01:14:30

And then after some time, you then reach out with a DM to them.

Vit Muller: 01:14:34

now do you automate all this process on the backend of Salesforce?

Vit Muller: 01:14:38

Do you have a thing that says, you know, this has been connected

Vit Muller: 01:14:41

on this date, we're gonna do a DM in, in the, in this timeframe.

Vit Muller: 01:14:45

Do you, do you have all that?

Vit Muller: 01:14:46

Is that how that works?

Vit Muller: 01:14:47

I.

Frank Sondors: 01:14:48

I mean, you can set it up in high level like, but I don't

Frank Sondors: 01:14:50

think there's a. There's that, you know, there's a, maybe good tracking on that.

Frank Sondors: 01:14:55

We, we definitely have what we call, monthly sort of targets of

Frank Sondors: 01:14:58

muscles that we're looking to hit.

Frank Sondors: 01:14:59

so going viral once a month, right.

Frank Sondors: 01:15:00

We have a target to figure out what can we do on social to go viral?

Frank Sondors: 01:15:04

What is that?

Frank Sondors: 01:15:05

What is the video?

Frank Sondors: 01:15:06

So for, so, you know, one thing I'm gonna say.

Frank Sondors: 01:15:08

So this month we're gonna shoot a Star Wars movie, like a skit.

Frank Sondors: 01:15:12

A skit essentially.

Frank Sondors: 01:15:13

So, and, and the reason why we, we decided to go with Star Wars, as the,

Frank Sondors: 01:15:17

and taking, scene from the movie.

Frank Sondors: 01:15:19

It's because we have a, you know, there's, the force in Star Wars, right?

Frank Sondors: 01:15:23

And then we have the Forge.

Frank Sondors: 01:15:23

So we're thinking, how can we, combine these two things?

Frank Sondors: 01:15:26

So, I'm not the creative guy.

Frank Sondors: 01:15:28

That's why I have the head of YouTube and, and the head of growth, they,

Frank Sondors: 01:15:30

they're gonna come up with, what we're gonna say there, et cetera.

Frank Sondors: 01:15:32

But this month we are going viral with something that, that has to do with

Frank Sondors: 01:15:35

Star Wars and something that we're gonna say, may the Forge be with you,

Frank Sondors: 01:15:40

instead of may the Forge be with you, so there's definitely an angle there.

Frank Sondors: 01:15:42

We have to work on that.

Frank Sondors: 01:15:44

And you have this sort of process, right?

Frank Sondors: 01:15:45

So, and, and every month we're trying to go viral, but this month

Frank Sondors: 01:15:49

is gonna be the Star Wars month.

Frank Sondors: 01:15:50

We are gonna put something you together, and again, gonna try and go viral again.

Frank Sondors: 01:15:54

so it can't be too frequent.

Frank Sondors: 01:15:55

Like once a month is a good pacing.

Frank Sondors: 01:15:57

you need definitely the right people, people that think

Frank Sondors: 01:15:59

outside of box, they're creative.

Frank Sondors: 01:16:00

Typically, they're not system thinkers.

Frank Sondors: 01:16:03

They're more of a, they're creative people, right?

Frank Sondors: 01:16:05

They're trying to think of, you know.

Frank Sondors: 01:16:07

They're definitely more strong on the branding side instead of

Frank Sondors: 01:16:09

the kind of system building side.

Frank Sondors: 01:16:11

Right?

Frank Sondors: 01:16:11

You need some people.

Frank Sondors: 01:16:12

Somebody needs to be that person.

Frank Sondors: 01:16:14

I'm not very good on that side, by the way.

Frank Sondors: 01:16:15

The creative

Vit Muller: 01:16:16

I've got an angle for you that you might wanna pass on to the guy.

Vit Muller: 01:16:18

So Disney has been spending millions a lot of money on trying to develop

Vit Muller: 01:16:24

this new lightsaber that is, you know, actually you just have the holder and then

Vit Muller: 01:16:29

nothing comes out of it until the press.

Vit Muller: 01:16:31

Like in the real movie, I read an article the other day, they spend millions

Vit Muller: 01:16:36

on it, a lot of money to to get it.

Vit Muller: 01:16:38

And now they got it.

Vit Muller: 01:16:40

But there's this kid in, I don't know, somewhere, Japan somewhere.

Vit Muller: 01:16:44

He's made his own version.

Vit Muller: 01:16:47

He's selling and he's riding this wave now because like on the back

Vit Muller: 01:16:51

of everybody's anticipating Disney and he goes, Hey, I already did it.

Vit Muller: 01:16:55

there is a story and there is hey, if you're, if you're running a business

Vit Muller: 01:16:58

and if you're trying to do something like don't, try to cook it behind the

Vit Muller: 01:17:01

scenes for so long because you never know a kid from, you know, build something

Vit Muller: 01:17:06

in the garage and it'll overpass you.

Vit Muller: 01:17:08

Some, there might be some clever analogy, I'm just thinking, you know,

Vit Muller: 01:17:11

like you mentioned Salesforce, star Wars, like the lights saber thing.

Vit Muller: 01:17:14

That could be something creative there.

Vit Muller: 01:17:16

but we are, we are, edging on a 90 minutes of this interview.

Vit Muller: 01:17:19

We've gone through a lot of specifics here and, and, and that's really cool.

Vit Muller: 01:17:24

Now I'd like to make sure that we, we leave with the guys with something

Vit Muller: 01:17:28

actionable and also, let 'em know where they can find out about, the offer.

Vit Muller: 01:17:33

This is for people who are like me, like a little bit left brainless, like I'm nerdy.

Vit Muller: 01:17:36

I kind of not wanna know the technical aspects.

Vit Muller: 01:17:39

The software does the outreach for you, right?

Vit Muller: 01:17:41

So you automate that and does the outreach at scale for you?

Vit Muller: 01:17:44

That's, that's what it does.

Vit Muller: 01:17:45

Okay.

Vit Muller: 01:17:46

so what, yeah, and then the integration of high level, we haven't tapped into that.

Vit Muller: 01:17:50

So can we cover that?

Vit Muller: 01:17:51

Like how does it integrate with high level so the guys get it?

Frank Sondors: 01:17:55

Yeah, so currently it's one directional integration, but we're

Frank Sondors: 01:17:58

just waiting for high level to approve what we call bidirectional integration.

Frank Sondors: 01:18:01

That means data comes from high level and from Salesforce

Frank Sondors: 01:18:04

it goes back to high level.

Frank Sondors: 01:18:05

just waiting for the high level team to just to approve the integration.

Frank Sondors: 01:18:08

so that is available.

Frank Sondors: 01:18:09

also the other thing that is just, about waiting for approval by the

Frank Sondors: 01:18:13

high level team is if you are white labeling the high level software.

Frank Sondors: 01:18:16

So there's also white label version to integrate, which is not

Frank Sondors: 01:18:18

a way to integrate, essentially integrating the white label,

Frank Sondors: 01:18:20

high level with the white label.

Frank Sondors: 01:18:21

Salesforce also super powerful.

Frank Sondors: 01:18:23

highly recommend, these things.

Frank Sondors: 01:18:25

and yeah, and that's kind of general integration.

Frank Sondors: 01:18:26

It's kind of super straightforward in the market.

Frank Sondors: 01:18:28

We're in the marketplace of high level, so you'll find us there if you're just

Frank Sondors: 01:18:31

searching for, for Salesforce right now.

Frank Sondors: 01:18:34

and that's about it really on, on kind of high level front.

Frank Sondors: 01:18:36

And if you, yeah, there's a lot of information just generally on

Frank Sondors: 01:18:38

Salesforce if you wanna find out more.

Frank Sondors: 01:18:40

The other thing where there's a ton of information is on the

Frank Sondors: 01:18:42

Salesforce YouTube channel as well.

Frank Sondors: 01:18:44

You can just, you know, binge watch essentially how to do LinkedIn and

Frank Sondors: 01:18:48

see more of my face essentially if you want to, and, and kind of strategies.

Frank Sondors: 01:18:52

but yeah, practice makes perfect meaning launch campaigns, do ab tests, see what

Frank Sondors: 01:18:57

works, what doesn't, and then what works scale that, what doesn't kill that.

Frank Sondors: 01:19:01

it's kind of simple as that.

Frank Sondors: 01:19:03

so, so yeah, that's how you can sort of look at, you know, your, your kind of out,

Frank Sondors: 01:19:07

what should be your outreach strategy.

Vit Muller: 01:19:09

Now I'm gonna put my, marketing brain on, brain on,

Vit Muller: 01:19:12

can I twist your arm for a little special offer for my listeners?

Vit Muller: 01:19:15

I don't know what you charge.

Vit Muller: 01:19:16

I don't know what the pricing is.

Vit Muller: 01:19:18

Can we do something?

Frank Sondors: 01:19:20

sure.

Frank Sondors: 01:19:21

so I mean, here, here's a good one then.

Frank Sondors: 01:19:23

so if you're just gonna, if you're going for, with, just with Salesforce and if

Frank Sondors: 01:19:26

you just wanna start the plan, if you're just entering at the end of the checkout,

Frank Sondors: 01:19:31

essentially Friends of Frank, then yes, you, you can get a little offer and it's

Frank Sondors: 01:19:36

gotta be a secret what the offer is.

Frank Sondors: 01:19:38

so you can go and check it out.

Frank Sondors: 01:19:39

So you just enter the call Friends of Frank, and then

Frank Sondors: 01:19:42

you'll get, the offer at the end.

Vit Muller: 01:19:45

Awesome.

Vit Muller: 01:19:45

All right, so now what I'm gonna, I'm gonna, bundle it all nicely for you guys.

Vit Muller: 01:19:49

if you're listening.

Vit Muller: 01:19:50

So head over to highlevelexperience.com/salesforge,

Vit Muller: 01:19:55

with g, not Salesforce.

Vit Muller: 01:19:58

Okay.

Vit Muller: 01:19:59

head over to highlevelexperience.com/salesforge.

Vit Muller: 01:20:02

you learn about Frank's offer, you learn about Sales Forge.

Vit Muller: 01:20:05

There'll be some links.

Vit Muller: 01:20:06

Full disclosure, I'm an affiliate.

Vit Muller: 01:20:08

we, we've got, we, we've got what a bit of a deal for you

Vit Muller: 01:20:10

guys, but it's a no brainer.

Vit Muller: 01:20:11

I mean, if you've been listening up until now, you get the offer.

Vit Muller: 01:20:14

and so go there.

Vit Muller: 01:20:16

I've got some lead magnets for you available as well below the fold.

Vit Muller: 01:20:19

Also, you can check out our sponsor offers, so it's all there on one page, all

Vit Muller: 01:20:23

wrapped up nicely with a bow tie for you.

Vit Muller: 01:20:25

Head over to highlevelexperience.com/salesforge

Vit Muller: 01:20:28

to find out more.

Vit Muller: 01:20:30

Now, Frank, we're at the end of the episode.

Vit Muller: 01:20:32

I wish we had more time, but you know, when you are having

Vit Muller: 01:20:35

fun time, time goes fast, right?

Vit Muller: 01:20:37

So, I guess, let's just leave with.

Vit Muller: 01:20:40

A final piece of advice for the guys listening.

Vit Muller: 01:20:42

all of us highlevelers Saas entrepreneurs who are trying to get,

Vit Muller: 01:20:47

you know, capture more market help people, help business owners with

Vit Muller: 01:20:51

all the amazing stuff that we do.

Vit Muller: 01:20:54

what would be the advice for you, for somebody who's trying

Vit Muller: 01:20:56

to grow their high level agency?

Frank Sondors: 01:20:59

I always say, and Alex Hormozi actually says that if

Frank Sondors: 01:21:02

somebody knows who Alex Hormosi is, and many people will do scale trumps

Frank Sondors: 01:21:05

luck, or scale beats luck, whatever.

Frank Sondors: 01:21:08

Essentially, if you are se setting up scalable systems through high level

Frank Sondors: 01:21:12

true sales, forge in, in any other, really softwares out there, you own

Frank Sondors: 01:21:16

your essentially destiny a lot more.

Frank Sondors: 01:21:18

You own your ability to generate a ton more meetings, a ton more

Frank Sondors: 01:21:21

pipeline, a ton more bacon essentially that you, that you bring in.

Frank Sondors: 01:21:25

So, so always, always, always build systems with.

Frank Sondors: 01:21:29

Scale in mind, right?

Frank Sondors: 01:21:31

and, and, and there's a lot that you can do.

Frank Sondors: 01:21:33

We, we, we, we, for example, we only run tests that have scale.

Frank Sondors: 01:21:37

We do not run any other tests unless we are naturally thinking about LinkedIn and

Frank Sondors: 01:21:40

branding and kind of things like that.

Frank Sondors: 01:21:42

But typical, a serious business has serious scale always.

Frank Sondors: 01:21:46

it's very hard to find businesses, that do a lot of revenue making,

Frank Sondors: 01:21:50

meaning making millions of dollars in annual recurring revenue without

Frank Sondors: 01:21:54

having scalable systems in place.

Frank Sondors: 01:21:56

so that's my advice.

Frank Sondors: 01:21:57

we typically just joke about it.

Frank Sondors: 01:21:59

We don't do rookie numbers.

Frank Sondors: 01:22:01

just think about, you know, what I said, don't do rookie numbers.

Frank Sondors: 01:22:04

Do real scale whatever you're thinking that I need to do.

Frank Sondors: 01:22:07

I wanna send 10 emails.

Frank Sondors: 01:22:09

Just think 10 x you, you wanna send a hundred emails, not 10.

Frank Sondors: 01:22:13

So if you are thinking like 10 x and everything that

Frank Sondors: 01:22:15

you do, that is real scale.

Frank Sondors: 01:22:17

Typically, and that trumps luck.

Frank Sondors: 01:22:20

That means you are likely to achieve your targets, whatever

Frank Sondors: 01:22:25

you, you are looking to achieve.

Frank Sondors: 01:22:26

So yeah, my last piece of advice,

Vit Muller: 01:22:29

Brilliant, Frank, thank you so much, mate.

Vit Muller: 01:22:32

Appreciate you being on sharing your, wisdom, your, your advice,

Vit Muller: 01:22:36

even sharing those special sources that, that you normally don't share.

Vit Muller: 01:22:39

So that's a much appreciated.

Vit Muller: 01:22:41

There's been ton of value bombs.

Vit Muller: 01:22:43

I hope you guys been taking notes because there is some real easy to, you know,

Vit Muller: 01:22:48

like step by step applicable tips here, that will help you grow your business.

Vit Muller: 01:22:51

So appreciate you for doing that, Frank.

Frank Sondors: 01:22:54

worries.

Frank Sondors: 01:22:54

See you next time.

Vit Muller: 01:22:56

Awesome guys.

Vit Muller: 01:22:58

thank you so much for listening to today's episode on the high level experience.

Vit Muller: 01:23:01

If you've enjoyed today's episode, then please share it with your fellow agency

Vit Muller: 01:23:04

mates and other high levelers that you think would also benefit from listening.

Vit Muller: 01:23:08

For show notes, links and extra tips to help you grow your agency

Vit Muller: 01:23:11

or your SaaS, the high level, please go do a highlevelexperience.com.

Vit Muller: 01:23:14

Thank you and have a great rest of your day, everybody.