Vit Muller: 00:00:04

Hello everybody.

Vit Muller: 00:00:04

Welcome to another episode on the High Level Experience Podcast.

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Our guest today is a dear friend of mine and a strategic partner in the

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martial art club management space, a master of scaling businesses and a true

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testament to the power of leveraging technology for business growth.

Vit Muller: 00:00:20

After transforming his own martial arts club, from a fledgling startup

Vit Muller: 00:00:24

to a thriving community with over 300 members across two bustling

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locations, he didn't stop there.

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Using go high level, he has carved a niche and helping other club

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owners smash through growth barriers and exceed the 500 k revenue mark.

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Please welcome to the show, Tom Adam from Curious Growth.

Tom Adam: 00:00:48

Thanks, man.

Tom Adam: 00:00:49

Thanks for having me.

Vit Muller: 00:00:51

great to have you here mate.

Vit Muller: 00:00:52

Mate, you've had a bit of a journey with Curious Growth, turning it

Vit Muller: 00:00:55

into, into, you know, what it is now.

Vit Muller: 00:00:58

could you share what initially inspired you to start Curious Growth

Vit Muller: 00:01:01

and, you know, help how you, you know, the first steps looked like,

Tom Adam: 00:01:05

Oh, absolutely.

Tom Adam: 00:01:06

I would actually blame, I would actually blame the pandemic a hundred percent.

Tom Adam: 00:01:10

I would say it's the pandemic's fault.

Tom Adam: 00:01:12

as a, as a club owner, I dunno, the people listening who were involved

Tom Adam: 00:01:15

with like, the sort of martial arts, fitness, dance, yoga, that sort of

Tom Adam: 00:01:19

stuff, we got smashed, we got absolutely smashed during, the lockdown periods.

Tom Adam: 00:01:25

and, one for me, I, I literally was the local business.

Tom Adam: 00:01:28

I'm the local trader, group, local business, community group president.

Tom Adam: 00:01:31

And during the lockdowns, I realized I was on the media, in the media, on the

Tom Adam: 00:01:35

news, on the radio, on tv, in the paper.

Tom Adam: 00:01:39

and then all of a sudden people started reaching out

Tom Adam: 00:01:41

to me and asking me questions.

Tom Adam: 00:01:42

And I realized I actually knew all of these things.

Tom Adam: 00:01:45

And I knew what was going on, and I, I actually hired a mentor.

Tom Adam: 00:01:48

I spent, oh, I mean, hundreds of thousands of dollars on, on

Tom Adam: 00:01:52

improving my own business skills and my, and my business itself.

Tom Adam: 00:01:55

And even my mentor was like, man, like you should be helping other people do this.

Tom Adam: 00:01:58

So Curious Growth became a natural element, and I, I chose the name, I

Tom Adam: 00:02:04

probably should change it, but I, I chose the name because I'm insanely curious.

Tom Adam: 00:02:08

all the time I'm always asking questions about how we can do things

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better and how we can improve.

Tom Adam: 00:02:12

And I'm all about growth, so it, it made sense.

Tom Adam: 00:02:15

Probably seems a bit weird now, but here, here we are now and I'm, I'm

Tom Adam: 00:02:18

really happy with how it's going and I look forward to helping more people.

Vit Muller: 00:02:23

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:02:23

And I love that because, you know, running business oftentimes we, we get to nerd out

Vit Muller: 00:02:27

on different things and, but ultimately it's, it's about like, if you're in it

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for the right reasons, you're in it to try to solve problems right day to day

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in your own business, or it might even sometimes be someone else's problem.

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And then you just try and generally help.

Vit Muller: 00:02:42

So I like what the, you know, the approach, like what, you know, the

Vit Muller: 00:02:45

thought process that went into, you know, come up without that name.

Vit Muller: 00:02:49

Now guys listening, for you, what I wanted to highlight is that today is

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kind of a unique episode in the sense that, you know, up until this point I've

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been interviewing lots of high level.

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Agencies, hell agencies and sapr and vendors.

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but you're not, not you, not neither of them, right.

Vit Muller: 00:03:04

We're, we're mates.

Vit Muller: 00:03:05

And, you know, I've known you for, I don't know, like five years or something, but

Vit Muller: 00:03:09

you know, your journey is kind of like, and then this is for you guys listening.

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Like you get to, actually, today you get to listen from somebody on the

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other side, regular business owner running a business and, and their

Vit Muller: 00:03:19

journey with high level and working with an agency and, and all that stuff.

Vit Muller: 00:03:23

So maybe let's start, let's start there.

Vit Muller: 00:03:25

Let's talk about, you know, the whole journey of what, how Berra Martial Arts,

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the name of your martial arts club, how did that, you know, came about?

Vit Muller: 00:03:32

How did you, why did you decide to, you know, launch Martial Arts Club

Vit Muller: 00:03:35

in the first place and what that journey's been like until this point?

Tom Adam: 00:03:38

Oh gosh.

Tom Adam: 00:03:38

I'll, I'll try to keep it brief 'cause there's a story to it.

Tom Adam: 00:03:40

So we, we've been open, four, we are now 15th year, so we're 14 years open.

Tom Adam: 00:03:45

And I, I trained, I did all my training on the Gold Coast.

Tom Adam: 00:03:47

I moved back to the Gold Coast in like 2005 to run a family business.

Tom Adam: 00:03:51

And I had all this time in the evenings that I'd never have, and I,

Tom Adam: 00:03:55

I'd done martial arts and I got into martial arts training again, and I,

Tom Adam: 00:03:58

it was just like breathing for me.

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And I, I did it, you know, four nights a week and Saturday

Tom Adam: 00:04:02

mornings and I trained my butt off.

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and before I came to Canberra, my wife got a job down here.

Tom Adam: 00:04:08

I just got my instructor certificate in my, my hapkido,

Tom Adam: 00:04:11

martial arts style called Hapkido.

Tom Adam: 00:04:13

And I thought, oh look, you know, I'll start a club and you know, I'll just

Tom Adam: 00:04:17

give it a go and see what happens.

Tom Adam: 00:04:19

And I opened my club, three people in a small room.

Tom Adam: 00:04:22

I used to load the, the, the mats that we trained on onto the top of the crappy

Tom Adam: 00:04:26

Hyundai that I had to buy with the money that I borrowed from my father-in-law.

Tom Adam: 00:04:29

'cause we had no money when we moved here.

Tom Adam: 00:04:31

And, three people in this little rented room.

Tom Adam: 00:04:34

and then somehow by the end of the first year we had a

Tom Adam: 00:04:37

full-time facility and 50 members.

Tom Adam: 00:04:40

and I didn't spend a cent on marketing, like advertising

Tom Adam: 00:04:44

online or anything like that.

Tom Adam: 00:04:45

It was, it was 2011.

Tom Adam: 00:04:46

This wasn't, it wasn't a thing that you really sort of like, it was just

Tom Adam: 00:04:49

really beginners for that sort of stuff.

Tom Adam: 00:04:51

I mean, you could have Google AdWords and stuff, but I didn't need to do that 'cause

Tom Adam: 00:04:55

I owned an online business before that.

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So I knew how to do SEO.

Tom Adam: 00:04:58

So just with word of mouth, website and email communications.

Tom Adam: 00:05:02

I've always been in communications.

Tom Adam: 00:05:04

I just grew my club and it grew and grew in 2016, somebody said that's a

Tom Adam: 00:05:08

really, really nice hobby business.

Tom Adam: 00:05:11

And I didn't sleep for two days.

Tom Adam: 00:05:12

I was so mad at myself for letting that bastard think

Tom Adam: 00:05:16

that it was a hobby business.

Tom Adam: 00:05:18

'cause I was working a full-time job earning six figures and then,

Tom Adam: 00:05:20

you know, three nights a week I was teaching and Saturday mornings.

Tom Adam: 00:05:24

And at that point I had 142 members and I was like, that's it, I'm not doing this.

Tom Adam: 00:05:27

I walked into my boss's office on the Monday and I said, I'm

Tom Adam: 00:05:30

going full-time in 12 months.

Tom Adam: 00:05:31

And she shot out of a chair and started clapping and I was so

Tom Adam: 00:05:35

pumped 'cause she knew that I could.

Tom Adam: 00:05:37

and, somehow wheeling and dealing.

Tom Adam: 00:05:39

I ended up with a part-time job for the last six months,

Tom Adam: 00:05:40

so it ended up being 14 months.

Tom Adam: 00:05:42

So it was for October, 2016.

Tom Adam: 00:05:44

December, 2017.

Tom Adam: 00:05:45

I took 12 months leave without pay and I never went back.

Tom Adam: 00:05:48

And in January, 2018, I went full time.

Tom Adam: 00:05:51

And then we grew the club and I had mentors that I worked with

Tom Adam: 00:05:55

and different guys, and I've learnt everything along the way.

Tom Adam: 00:05:58

I was doing my MBA at the same time, like mental.

Tom Adam: 00:06:02

and then, you know, we got to 2020 and we had 372 members.

Tom Adam: 00:06:06

I vividly remember it on the 20th of February, the 28th of February,

Tom Adam: 00:06:10

I handed in my last assessment for my MBAI was done with that.

Tom Adam: 00:06:15

I'd just been, voted in as the president of the local trader group.

Tom Adam: 00:06:17

And I was watching everything happening in the United States and I got ready.

Tom Adam: 00:06:22

And so we started putting screens in tv.

Tom Adam: 00:06:24

So we was tested on the Friday, we went live on the Saturday, and then

Tom Adam: 00:06:27

we were a hundred percent online from the Monday we went into lockdown.

Tom Adam: 00:06:31

and then I just, the club itself, we managed to keep 50% of our members.

Tom Adam: 00:06:36

And then during that time, I found another mentor and I, I doubled down,

Tom Adam: 00:06:40

and I say this to my clients all the time, whenever life gives you an

Tom Adam: 00:06:44

opportunity and you get a chance to double down, take the gamble on yourself.

Tom Adam: 00:06:49

and I doubled down and between the two lockdowns we had here

Tom Adam: 00:06:52

in Canberra, we cracked 500 K in revenue for the first time.

Tom Adam: 00:06:56

we cracked 400 members.

Tom Adam: 00:06:58

second lockdown hit us even harder and we had to rebuild from that.

Tom Adam: 00:07:01

And then the rebuilding is where I started getting into, involved with go high level.

Tom Adam: 00:07:06

And so the, when I rebuilt in the January of 2021, when we had 400

Tom Adam: 00:07:12

members, I'd had 90 trials sign up in something like six weeks and only.

Tom Adam: 00:07:18

35 of them converted to members, which for us was like, and I'd only really been

Tom Adam: 00:07:23

tracking the data for a year or two 'cause I just didn't understand until that point.

Tom Adam: 00:07:27

But when our KPIs were 70%, I was devastated.

Tom Adam: 00:07:31

And I was like, what do we do here?

Tom Adam: 00:07:32

And I, so I really looked at the experience journeys of people.

Tom Adam: 00:07:35

And I love this.

Tom Adam: 00:07:36

There's a great general, and I can never remember his name.

Tom Adam: 00:07:38

And he says, you gotta get people to say yes seven times before

Tom Adam: 00:07:40

you ask them an actual question.

Tom Adam: 00:07:42

Like you ask them for something, you gotta get them to say yes seven times.

Tom Adam: 00:07:45

So I was like, how do you build Yes, seven times into a process.

Tom Adam: 00:07:50

And I found go high level because I was looking for a better email solution.

Tom Adam: 00:07:54

I wasn't looking at an SMS, Facebook blah, blah, blah, blah blah, like

Tom Adam: 00:07:57

all this stuff that, you know, I wasn't looking at automations.

Tom Adam: 00:07:59

I was just looking at how do I do better newsletters?

Tom Adam: 00:08:02

and.

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Because I've been really good with email communications.

Tom Adam: 00:08:05

Like mean I send out six, 7,000 emails a week to my, to my list, you know?

Tom Adam: 00:08:10

And you know, and I got into the system and I realized there was a

Tom Adam: 00:08:13

great way to really manage the process.

Tom Adam: 00:08:17

And I didn't even understand automations.

Tom Adam: 00:08:18

Like I didn't even understand what that was.

Tom Adam: 00:08:21

and so, you know, over the later in that year, you and I actually met

Tom Adam: 00:08:24

and, and I was already using go high level and you were getting into it

Tom Adam: 00:08:28

and we started working together.

Tom Adam: 00:08:29

And it was like, I said it, I think you remember this quote.

Tom Adam: 00:08:31

I said, it was like digital jazz.

Tom Adam: 00:08:33

Like you and I were like back and forth, we're like, okay,

Tom Adam: 00:08:35

this is like back and forth.

Tom Adam: 00:08:36

This is fantastic.

Tom Adam: 00:08:37

And you were like, let's focus on this.

Tom Adam: 00:08:39

And I was like, well, how do I automate this?

Tom Adam: 00:08:41

And so the January of the first three months of 2022.

Tom Adam: 00:08:45

We converted 75% of our, trials.

Tom Adam: 00:08:47

We had 75 come through in a two month period.

Tom Adam: 00:08:50

And since then we've sort of gotten to the point where we're, we're

Tom Adam: 00:08:53

perfecting the, the trial process.

Tom Adam: 00:08:55

So now I generate over 30 paid trials a month.

Tom Adam: 00:08:58

So that's 30 paid new people coming in the door, and we convert 50, 50 to 75%

Tom Adam: 00:09:04

of those depending on the month and the, and the seasonal and things like that.

Tom Adam: 00:09:08

and we've opened the second location last year and we're

Tom Adam: 00:09:10

using the same process there.

Tom Adam: 00:09:12

And it just, it's just predictable revenue.

Tom Adam: 00:09:14

I don't pay for my own ads.

Tom Adam: 00:09:16

The new people coming in the door this month will pay for my ads for next month.

Tom Adam: 00:09:18

And it's just been a wild journey and I don't think I could have

Tom Adam: 00:09:21

done it without, go high level and of course you putting up with me.

Vit Muller: 00:09:25

Well, one of the things that, you know, one of the things that

Vit Muller: 00:09:28

was really cool is, is that, still cool to this day is that, you know, when

Vit Muller: 00:09:32

we first started working together, you were showing me, you know, how, you

Vit Muller: 00:09:35

know, you using clickup and all that, so you were like on the same game as me.

Vit Muller: 00:09:40

Like very systemized.

Vit Muller: 00:09:41

So I mean, that obviously helps, right?

Vit Muller: 00:09:43

'cause we can bounce ideas of each other and you being that same space

Vit Muller: 00:09:47

of being interested in systemization just makes things a lot easier.

Vit Muller: 00:09:50

Like, you understand the, the importance of staying systemized, right?

Vit Muller: 00:09:54

I just wanna go back to,

Tom Adam: 00:09:55

it, it really makes, just to add to that, it really makes it important.

Tom Adam: 00:09:58

I've got 20 staff, like I can't, I've gone from me running it by

Tom Adam: 00:10:02

myself to two locations, 20 staff.

Tom Adam: 00:10:05

I've got several full-timers and admin and things like that.

Tom Adam: 00:10:08

You can't rely on yourself.

Tom Adam: 00:10:10

You can't be the single point of failure.

Tom Adam: 00:10:12

And I was realizing that with one of my coaching clients today.

Tom Adam: 00:10:14

I look, I'm the single point of failure for their business.

Tom Adam: 00:10:16

'cause I was like, they're not learning.

Tom Adam: 00:10:18

So, but no, we'll come back to that.

Tom Adam: 00:10:19

It's good.

Tom Adam: 00:10:20

The systemization is really, really important.

Vit Muller: 00:10:21

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:10:22

I wanna just segue all the way back 'cause I mean, you know, you've, you've,

Vit Muller: 00:10:25

you've explained the whole journey.

Vit Muller: 00:10:26

I just wanna slide in and explain, just, well not explain, but at my,

Vit Muller: 00:10:30

2 cents on that is when you said, you know, you weren't able to grow

Vit Muller: 00:10:33

into 50 members in that, you know, in that first you, when you opened

Vit Muller: 00:10:37

within, within six months or something like that, you said, from memory.

Vit Muller: 00:10:40

And, and that just goes to show like the fundamentals,

Tom Adam: 00:10:43

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:10:44

you know, like you gotta get the fundamentals right?

Vit Muller: 00:10:46

Like the fundamentals of communicating with people, meaning of people, you know,

Vit Muller: 00:10:51

just back to basics, like get the basics right and then you scale from there.

Vit Muller: 00:10:56

sometimes people overcomplicate things too much and they forget about the basics.

Vit Muller: 00:11:01

You know, one of the basics I've been getting back to since I got

Vit Muller: 00:11:04

back to Canberra is just doing a lot of, you know, networking.

Vit Muller: 00:11:07

BNI, speaking to business owners.

Vit Muller: 00:11:09

Yes.

Vit Muller: 00:11:09

Very time consuming.

Vit Muller: 00:11:11

True.

Vit Muller: 00:11:12

But it's working.

Vit Muller: 00:11:13

And, And you kinda get to test your market a little bit.

Vit Muller: 00:11:15

Like if you're trying to get into a new market, especially, there's nothing better

Vit Muller: 00:11:18

than like, trying to speak to people and figure out what is that, what are

Vit Muller: 00:11:22

the problems they're facing, what is the impact that you can provide, you know,

Vit Muller: 00:11:26

what are the problems they're facing and what is the impact that you can provide?

Vit Muller: 00:11:29

And that then naturally then trickles down into the solutions

Vit Muller: 00:11:32

that, that you then deliver.

Vit Muller: 00:11:34

Right.

Vit Muller: 00:11:34

Which is a good segue to, to this, to the thing that you've introduced me to

Vit Muller: 00:11:38

when we started working together, which is, something that, be interesting for

Vit Muller: 00:11:41

the listeners and it's an approach that I use now since then, the double diamond.

Tom Adam: 00:11:46

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:11:46

you want, do you wanna explain that for the listeners what it is?

Vit Muller: 00:11:48

Because it's so powerful.

Tom Adam: 00:11:50

Yeah.

Tom Adam: 00:11:50

So, the UK Design Council came up with this years ago.

Tom Adam: 00:11:54

and it's really interesting.

Tom Adam: 00:11:55

You've gotta think about this.

Tom Adam: 00:11:56

you can, you can link Simon Cenek, start with why.

Tom Adam: 00:12:01

and people will often, if you start with that, it makes a lot of help.

Tom Adam: 00:12:03

So, Simon Sinek talks about whenever you sell a product, don't start, don't talk

Tom Adam: 00:12:07

about what it is or how you made it.

Tom Adam: 00:12:11

You talk about why.

Tom Adam: 00:12:13

And so if you start with the why, then you talk about how,

Tom Adam: 00:12:15

and then you talk about what.

Tom Adam: 00:12:17

And it's a brilliant framing for the way that people think.

Tom Adam: 00:12:20

And so I'm gonna use that framework to talk about the double diamond.

Tom Adam: 00:12:25

So why you use the double diamond is it's a consumer centric

Tom Adam: 00:12:30

approach to redesigning solutions.

Tom Adam: 00:12:35

So if you're going to come up with a product or a service, the double diamond

Tom Adam: 00:12:40

gives you an opportunity to step back.

Tom Adam: 00:12:42

So if I said to anybody, Hey guys, anybody listening or watching this

Tom Adam: 00:12:45

right now, I want you to imagine, I, I need, I need something that

Tom Adam: 00:12:49

can hold half a liter of a fluid.

Tom Adam: 00:12:52

And we all do it in our brains.

Tom Adam: 00:12:54

We immediately start to think of a container of some sort of shape.

Tom Adam: 00:12:57

You can see something in your mind.

Tom Adam: 00:12:59

If you're a beard drinker, you probably see a stein glass.

Tom Adam: 00:13:01

and so and so, you know, so.

Tom Adam: 00:13:06

How we do that is we, we frame this into, the problem statements don't

Tom Adam: 00:13:11

occur until you take a step back.

Tom Adam: 00:13:13

And so the two diamonds, if I was to show a graphic, one is before the

Tom Adam: 00:13:18

problem statement, and then one is after.

Tom Adam: 00:13:21

So we all know how to do the second diamond.

Tom Adam: 00:13:22

We've all done it a million times.

Tom Adam: 00:13:24

You develop a night, you, you've got your questions that you want to answer.

Tom Adam: 00:13:27

You develop a product, you test it, you make sure it works.

Tom Adam: 00:13:30

If it doesn't work, you go back and you retest your assumptions

Tom Adam: 00:13:33

and you go from there.

Tom Adam: 00:13:35

And so how the, how the double diamond does it, is it, it takes you back a step.

Tom Adam: 00:13:40

And so what it does here, I'm going, how, why, how, what?

Tom Adam: 00:13:43

So what it does is we actually go through and you look at an

Tom Adam: 00:13:46

experience that everybody has, how customers will interact with you.

Tom Adam: 00:13:49

So a customer doesn't go to the movies, they don't just go.

Tom Adam: 00:13:52

Turn up at the movies, they don't just appear there and then look at the screen.

Tom Adam: 00:13:56

They do research and it used to be newspapers, but now

Tom Adam: 00:13:58

it's an app on their phone.

Tom Adam: 00:14:00

and then they look up what time they're gonna do there, and then they figure

Tom Adam: 00:14:02

out how they're gonna get there, whether they pre-purchase popcorn or not.

Tom Adam: 00:14:05

And then they get to the movie and they go in there and there's

Tom Adam: 00:14:07

a whole experience journey.

Tom Adam: 00:14:10

And so what you do with, what you do with the Double Diamond method is, and design

Tom Adam: 00:14:13

thinking is that you actually go through and you map out those experiences and you

Tom Adam: 00:14:17

look at every single point along the way and you, and you ask a question, you know,

Tom Adam: 00:14:22

and I, I say roses, thorns, and buds.

Tom Adam: 00:14:23

So what's good, what's bad?

Tom Adam: 00:14:25

What could be better?

Tom Adam: 00:14:27

And if you map out every single interaction website, like, and you

Tom Adam: 00:14:30

map it, like if it's a product they interact with, if it's a service or

Tom Adam: 00:14:33

a website or a human or a car park or whatever it is, you map out every

Tom Adam: 00:14:37

interaction point along the way and you start to look at what's good, what's

Tom Adam: 00:14:40

got, what's bad, what could be better.

Tom Adam: 00:14:42

And then all of a sudden you start to see trends coming outta that.

Tom Adam: 00:14:45

And you realize that the experience, the experiences that come from

Tom Adam: 00:14:49

those things, and then there's some other steps involved.

Tom Adam: 00:14:51

You look at who they're connected to and, and all these sorts of things.

Tom Adam: 00:14:55

And so you go in through a divergent thinking process where you start

Tom Adam: 00:14:58

to look at everything possible.

Tom Adam: 00:15:00

And then you start to come back into a convergent thinking process and you

Tom Adam: 00:15:03

start to look at those similarities.

Tom Adam: 00:15:06

And then eventually what happens is that you start to frame questions

Tom Adam: 00:15:08

and you frame them differently.

Tom Adam: 00:15:10

And the questions always start with how might we or what if we, so

Tom Adam: 00:15:15

instead of me at the start saying.

Tom Adam: 00:15:18

Hey, I need a container that holds half a liter.

Tom Adam: 00:15:21

And it's like, what if we designed a container that can, to, could hold a

Tom Adam: 00:15:25

hundred, a half a liter of fluid that could be transported to the country.

Tom Adam: 00:15:29

It doesn't matter what temperature it is, and it doesn't matter

Tom Adam: 00:15:31

what solution is inside it.

Tom Adam: 00:15:33

Suddenly what you come up with is gonna be very different because

Tom Adam: 00:15:37

you have to think about all the interaction points along the way.

Tom Adam: 00:15:41

and, and, and I still to this day, can't understand why can

Tom Adam: 00:15:43

cans aren't hexagonal in shape.

Tom Adam: 00:15:46

But anyway, that's another story.

Vit Muller: 00:15:48

So here, here's where I, I'm gonna add a bit of our relevance to this.

Vit Muller: 00:15:51

If somebody's not getting the power of this concept right, let's

Vit Muller: 00:15:54

bring it back to a regular agency.

Vit Muller: 00:15:56

If you're looking at providing, if you're looking to propo, put together

Vit Muller: 00:16:00

a proposal for a client, right?

Vit Muller: 00:16:02

Wanna help businesses', an agency, you wanna provide a right solution, right?

Vit Muller: 00:16:06

you might have an agency a that just has their own way and they just are, you know,

Vit Muller: 00:16:10

selling, paid out, for example, paid out campaigns, paid out management, right?

Vit Muller: 00:16:14

And they've got their pricing and, and that's that.

Vit Muller: 00:16:16

And that's what you're trying to focus on selling.

Vit Muller: 00:16:18

'cause that's what, you know, like that's your interest for your business, but is

Vit Muller: 00:16:22

it the right solution for the client?

Vit Muller: 00:16:24

How do you know, right?

Vit Muller: 00:16:26

So you might have an agency A that just explains, Hey, that's what

Vit Muller: 00:16:29

you need and that's what we do.

Vit Muller: 00:16:30

And that's how, and that's full stop.

Vit Muller: 00:16:32

You can have an agency B that actually takes the whole double

Vit Muller: 00:16:36

diamond principle and actually does a thorough discovery with the client.

Vit Muller: 00:16:41

Let's face it, paid ads is not one all one, one be all

Vit Muller: 00:16:44

solution for everything, right?

Vit Muller: 00:16:46

It's generating traffic.

Vit Muller: 00:16:48

But what if, what if the business has shit reputation, they've got leaky

Vit Muller: 00:16:51

bucket, all those things, right?

Vit Muller: 00:16:53

So company B, like agency B that actually goes through that.

Vit Muller: 00:16:56

con convergent is open, wide and

Tom Adam: 00:16:59

So convergent.

Tom Adam: 00:17:00

Yeah, so divergent and then convergent.

Tom Adam: 00:17:02

Yeah.

Tom Adam: 00:17:02

Divergence wide and then convergent

Vit Muller: 00:17:03

That's right.

Vit Muller: 00:17:04

So basically taking it ground up, you have a discovery called the client.

Vit Muller: 00:17:07

You're trying to figure out, you know, what's working.

Vit Muller: 00:17:10

Maybe even have an opportunity to speak one of their, one of their

Vit Muller: 00:17:13

customers, get an extra feedback, really gathering all the intel that

Vit Muller: 00:17:16

you can, maybe even with their stuff.

Vit Muller: 00:17:18

Yeah, it's gonna be more time consuming, but you're gonna gather everything you

Vit Muller: 00:17:21

need to figure out all the different problems and friction points that are

Vit Muller: 00:17:24

there, that are limiting, currently limiting that business to grow.

Vit Muller: 00:17:29

If you do that, now you've got everything at your disposal,

Vit Muller: 00:17:31

that's when you start to distill it down, converge, convergent, right?

Vit Muller: 00:17:34

Distilling down all the different, info that you gathered into what?

Vit Muller: 00:17:39

Into patterns, right?

Vit Muller: 00:17:40

And then what is the core?

Vit Muller: 00:17:41

What is the core, main bottleneck?

Vit Muller: 00:17:43

And then what are the sub sub problems as

Tom Adam: 00:17:45

And, and that, yeah.

Tom Adam: 00:17:46

And you refer to those as, as problem statements.

Tom Adam: 00:17:49

And, and, and again, I do it with, I do it with my clients that I'm working

Tom Adam: 00:17:52

with, is that I've got a solution and it's, and it's very broad, but

Tom Adam: 00:17:55

then I go through and I, you have to, you can't just go one size fits all.

Tom Adam: 00:17:59

You have to go through every single client and go, all right, how do

Tom Adam: 00:18:03

I customize this to your solution?

Tom Adam: 00:18:05

So I choose my clubs.

Tom Adam: 00:18:07

We have really, really consistent three week trials.

Tom Adam: 00:18:10

I've got another client who wants two week trials.

Tom Adam: 00:18:11

I've got another client who wants to do a one only experience.

Tom Adam: 00:18:15

You know, like it's, it's, it's building out that giving them the redundancy,

Tom Adam: 00:18:19

but also having the flexibility in your own thinking to be able to say,

Tom Adam: 00:18:22

okay, how do I make sure that this interaction is the best for that client?

Tom Adam: 00:18:26

Like, how do I make sure that that client gets the most out of it and go high level

Tom Adam: 00:18:30

has possibly one of the most flexible solutions to allow you to do that.

Tom Adam: 00:18:34

And I think a lot of people are worried about wasting too much time

Tom Adam: 00:18:37

on, developing new things for clients.

Tom Adam: 00:18:40

No, no, no.

Tom Adam: 00:18:41

You are developing new things for future clients that could be yours.

Tom Adam: 00:18:45

It's a mindset when it comes down to that.

Tom Adam: 00:18:47

Like, I was doing something today and I got really mad

Tom Adam: 00:18:49

'cause I didn't have the time.

Tom Adam: 00:18:50

My client wants me to do X, Y, Z and I was thinking, okay, cool.

Tom Adam: 00:18:53

So now what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna mirror that across into my development

Tom Adam: 00:18:56

environment, make sure that I've got a process there that manages that.

Tom Adam: 00:19:00

So if a client in the future says, I do x, I go, cool, we can do that too.

Tom Adam: 00:19:04

or just make a minor change to it.

Vit Muller: 00:19:07

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:19:07

Yeah, so that's a good point, right?

Vit Muller: 00:19:09

You, you, now we're talking into the power of snapshots, where if

Vit Muller: 00:19:12

you're trying to go after particular niche, you should be going through it

Vit Muller: 00:19:15

really broad and then just distilling it out into the right solution.

Vit Muller: 00:19:18

But once you got it working.

Vit Muller: 00:19:20

You can replicate that to that same niche, to that same, that same

Vit Muller: 00:19:24

type of business with some nuances,

Tom Adam: 00:19:25

yeah, it doesn't stop you from selling a solution to somebody

Tom Adam: 00:19:28

who hasn't, has, doesn't have a clue.

Tom Adam: 00:19:30

'cause because again, part of the double diamond process is also

Tom Adam: 00:19:33

exploring what's not working.

Tom Adam: 00:19:35

So if I was a, if you were a, if, if you were a, a, a, dance, yoga, martial arts,

Tom Adam: 00:19:39

like club owner that I was dealing with, the first thing I'm just gonna talk to you

Tom Adam: 00:19:43

about what's working, what's not working.

Tom Adam: 00:19:44

I ask those questions.

Tom Adam: 00:19:45

I don't say Gimme your roses, thorns and buds.

Tom Adam: 00:19:47

I do it to my staff 'cause they know that's what I'm gonna ask in the

Tom Adam: 00:19:50

timely, in the time, the weekly meeting.

Tom Adam: 00:19:53

But I say, you know, what's going really well.

Tom Adam: 00:19:56

Okay, take notes.

Tom Adam: 00:19:57

I use Fathom 'cause it's easier.

Tom Adam: 00:19:58

What's going really well?

Tom Adam: 00:20:00

What's not working, what could be better?

Tom Adam: 00:20:02

Alright.

Tom Adam: 00:20:03

Now does an existing solution I've developed fit into that?

Tom Adam: 00:20:06

Yeah.

Tom Adam: 00:20:06

Can I sell something to them?

Tom Adam: 00:20:08

Like my trial management process?

Tom Adam: 00:20:10

Trial management system that I've got?

Tom Adam: 00:20:12

Yeah.

Tom Adam: 00:20:13

Most of them need it.

Tom Adam: 00:20:14

Desperately need it because they, they don't understand that they've,

Tom Adam: 00:20:17

they're literally trying to go from meeting someone to asking

Tom Adam: 00:20:20

them to marry them as a customer.

Tom Adam: 00:20:22

And quite often, you, you, you, you've gotta get people to know,

Tom Adam: 00:20:25

like trust you through a process.

Tom Adam: 00:20:27

I. You know, and if you're trying to increase your lead volumes or all of a

Tom Adam: 00:20:31

sudden you've gotta, you've gotta manage a process because suddenly you've got

Tom Adam: 00:20:35

more people coming through the door and more people you're interacting with,

Tom Adam: 00:20:37

more people know, like, trust you.

Tom Adam: 00:20:39

You, you can't, when you just had two people coming into you, when you just

Tom Adam: 00:20:41

have one-on-ones, it's really easy when you got five on one or 10 on

Tom Adam: 00:20:45

one, or, you know, like yesterday I had eight trials across two different

Tom Adam: 00:20:48

clubs coming through the door.

Tom Adam: 00:20:50

Like how to manage that.

Tom Adam: 00:20:51

There has to be a process that's replicable and scalable.

Tom Adam: 00:20:55

So if you've got a solution that can do that, great, but if your solution

Tom Adam: 00:20:58

doesn't quite do it, don't be so wedded to it can, you can change it.

Tom Adam: 00:21:02

you know, like it's, who cares?

Tom Adam: 00:21:03

Like seriously, who cares?

Tom Adam: 00:21:05

Like, is it that big a deal?

Tom Adam: 00:21:06

If someone makes one change, make notes of it, how you've made the change.

Tom Adam: 00:21:10

Sure.

Tom Adam: 00:21:10

But to be honest, can you really break, go high level?

Tom Adam: 00:21:14

Like can you really not unfix a break?

Tom Adam: 00:21:16

Like, it's not like a permanent backend coding thing, is it?

Vit Muller: 00:21:19

I think this is a good point about, you know, understanding when to,

Vit Muller: 00:21:22

you know, knowing when to kill the puppy,

Tom Adam: 00:21:24

Oh yeah, yeah.

Tom Adam: 00:21:25

Throw the baby out with the bath water.

Vit Muller: 00:21:27

you know, like sometimes we just get too married to an idea

Vit Muller: 00:21:30

or to a business plan or business model, and we just keep going at it.

Vit Muller: 00:21:34

But we haven't really done our due diligence.

Vit Muller: 00:21:35

We haven't gone through the customer feedback.

Vit Muller: 00:21:37

We haven't really tested the market if it actually is that something that they want.

Vit Muller: 00:21:41

And then now we've overinvested so much money into it that it's like, well

Vit Muller: 00:21:45

now we need, now we need to stick to it because we need to get our return.

Vit Muller: 00:21:48

Well, it may never happen.

Vit Muller: 00:21:50

You might just have to, can the whole project and move on.

Vit Muller: 00:21:52

That's, that's what I mean, like knowing when to kill the puppy.

Vit Muller: 00:21:55

'cause you know, the analogy of that is because you're

Vit Muller: 00:21:58

emotionally attached, right?

Vit Muller: 00:21:59

It's your little fury friend.

Tom Adam: 00:22:01

It's so vivid.

Tom Adam: 00:22:03

Good thing your son can't hear you.

Tom Adam: 00:22:05

Talking about killing a puppy in the other room.

Tom Adam: 00:22:06

Hey.

Vit Muller: 00:22:07

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:22:07

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:22:08

just on, on that double diamond, just to sum it up, guys, so you've

Vit Muller: 00:22:10

got that first diamond, which is figuring out a problem and fig, and

Vit Muller: 00:22:13

then distilling into the, into the core, you know, a problem, statements.

Vit Muller: 00:22:18

And then the second diamond is where the development of solution comes in.

Vit Muller: 00:22:22

So you start again with, convergence.

Vit Muller: 00:22:24

So open, wide,

Tom Adam: 00:22:25

Divergent.

Vit Muller: 00:22:26

divergent.

Vit Muller: 00:22:26

There we go.

Vit Muller: 00:22:27

Keep getting it wrong.

Vit Muller: 00:22:28

Sorry guys.

Vit Muller: 00:22:28

Divergent, open wide.

Vit Muller: 00:22:30

That's the first half of that second diamond, right?

Vit Muller: 00:22:32

And you go back into prototyping, testing, different, you know, ab split testing,

Vit Muller: 00:22:37

just trying to figure out what's the best solution, what's the most elegant

Vit Muller: 00:22:40

solution, most scalable solution, and, and most impactful solution for

Vit Muller: 00:22:44

the end, for the end client, right?

Vit Muller: 00:22:46

So once you figure that out, then you obviously distillate it

Vit Muller: 00:22:48

down to the, hmm, con convergent,

Tom Adam: 00:22:52

Divergent Convergent.

Tom Adam: 00:22:53

That's right.

Tom Adam: 00:22:53

No, no, sorry.

Tom Adam: 00:22:54

Divergence wide convergence coming in.

Tom Adam: 00:22:56

So we convert, we convert, converge down into, into the final,

Tom Adam: 00:23:01

the final product or solution.

Tom Adam: 00:23:02

That's, that.

Tom Adam: 00:23:03

That's, and that's the thing.

Tom Adam: 00:23:04

yeah, and I, yeah, absolutely.

Tom Adam: 00:23:07

And, and like, it's, it's, it's one of those things that like humans are

Tom Adam: 00:23:10

notoriously bad at Solutionizing.

Tom Adam: 00:23:14

We are very, very bad people, guys in particular, like, I've been married nearly

Tom Adam: 00:23:18

25 years and so, or married nearly 17 years together with my wife, 25 years.

Tom Adam: 00:23:22

And, and, and I've got guys that I know and they do the same thing,

Tom Adam: 00:23:25

is that somebody brings you a problem, you immediately try to,

Tom Adam: 00:23:27

to, to create a solution for it.

Tom Adam: 00:23:30

When sometimes you actually just need to ask more questions to

Tom Adam: 00:23:32

understand what the problem is.

Tom Adam: 00:23:34

And when you've been married, as long as I know, sometimes

Tom Adam: 00:23:36

you just don't have a solution.

Tom Adam: 00:23:37

You just need to listen and nod.

Tom Adam: 00:23:39

That's all they want.

Vit Muller: 00:23:40

that's a good, that's so

Tom Adam: 00:23:41

in trouble for that one.

Vit Muller: 00:23:42

Oh no, it's all good.

Vit Muller: 00:23:43

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:23:43

Sometimes it's the best thing, you know?

Vit Muller: 00:23:45

Yeah, I get it.

Vit Muller: 00:23:46

I've been married for, for a few years now as well, so yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:23:50

You live and learn.

Tom Adam: 00:23:51

That's right.

Vit Muller: 00:23:53

Which is also, let's segue to sales.

Vit Muller: 00:23:56

I mean, same thing.

Vit Muller: 00:23:57

You know, sometimes you're just trying to, you've got something you're trying

Vit Muller: 00:24:00

to sell, but that's a, that's an old way of selling, that's pushing.

Vit Muller: 00:24:03

You wanna be pulling, you wanna be, just like inbound marketing.

Vit Muller: 00:24:06

You wanna have inbound sales, right?

Vit Muller: 00:24:08

The, the conversion should be inbound where you have a conversation,

Vit Muller: 00:24:12

and if the customer speaks more than you are, then you're winning.

Vit Muller: 00:24:15

You're gathering all the intel that you need.

Vit Muller: 00:24:17

They feel great because you're landing them an ear they can

Vit Muller: 00:24:20

land on, they feel good, and

Tom Adam: 00:24:23

Oh yeah.

Tom Adam: 00:24:23

I had some, I had someone in tears in a sales call yesterday because I, I

Tom Adam: 00:24:27

genuinely just said to them, what's go, like, what's good, what's bad?

Tom Adam: 00:24:29

What's, what's not work?

Tom Adam: 00:24:30

What could be better?

Vit Muller: 00:24:31

mm-hmm.

Tom Adam: 00:24:32

And she just, everything just came out.

Tom Adam: 00:24:34

And then she was crying and I was like, do you need a minute?

Tom Adam: 00:24:37

Like, it's all good.

Tom Adam: 00:24:38

Like, you know, like it's.

Tom Adam: 00:24:40

It's definitely one of those things you've, you've got to, you've got to hear,

Tom Adam: 00:24:44

I think that there's a genuine connection.

Tom Adam: 00:24:46

I think a lot of salespeople are just looking for the kill.

Tom Adam: 00:24:48

Like, they're like, I've gotta be the shark.

Tom Adam: 00:24:49

I've gotta get this, I gotta get the kill.

Tom Adam: 00:24:51

I gotta get the kill.

Tom Adam: 00:24:53

I worked, I I I, before my, I worked in hotels back in the day.

Tom Adam: 00:24:57

I actually, my original business degree is in hotel management and I worked

Tom Adam: 00:25:00

in hotel sales and I worked with a guy called Nick Kent, and I will tag him when

Tom Adam: 00:25:04

this goes up and I will like, comment.

Tom Adam: 00:25:06

He lives in Tasmania now for a company called Finn Carlisle.

Tom Adam: 00:25:09

He's gonna be pumped that I remember his company name like 23 years later.

Tom Adam: 00:25:12

and it was really funny.

Tom Adam: 00:25:12

He was like, you know, you really gotta ask the question.

Tom Adam: 00:25:15

You really gotta listen to the person.

Tom Adam: 00:25:17

And you also have to propose, sometimes propose not a sale then and there,

Tom Adam: 00:25:23

but propose another opportunity to.

Tom Adam: 00:25:26

For you to better understand their problem and come back to it.

Tom Adam: 00:25:29

So, which I think the double like links sales link to double diamond as well.

Tom Adam: 00:25:33

Like, don't go straight for the kill, don't test refined, blah, blah, blah.

Tom Adam: 00:25:37

Like sometimes you've gotta take a back step.

Tom Adam: 00:25:39

So, you know, I had a meeting with a client yesterday and a potential client

Tom Adam: 00:25:42

and I literally said to them at some point, I've gotta come back to you.

Tom Adam: 00:25:46

Like I've, I I can't answer your questions today because, you know,

Tom Adam: 00:25:49

I don't know whether I have the capacity to do what you need me to do.

Tom Adam: 00:25:52

Be honest.

Tom Adam: 00:25:54

you know, like

Vit Muller: 00:25:54

and they're gonna remember you for that.

Tom Adam: 00:25:56

Oh yeah.

Tom Adam: 00:25:57

I hope they remember me positively.

Vit Muller: 00:25:59

No, no.

Vit Muller: 00:25:59

That's what I mean, like it's a positive experience.

Vit Muller: 00:26:01

It's like, oh, that's different.

Vit Muller: 00:26:02

This guy actually cares.

Tom Adam: 00:26:03

yeah.

Tom Adam: 00:26:04

Well, I, and I, and I also backed out of things saying, I can't

Tom Adam: 00:26:06

help, I can't, you can't afford me.

Vit Muller: 00:26:09

Oh, well that's, that's another thing as well.

Vit Muller: 00:26:10

Right?

Vit Muller: 00:26:10

The most profit, profitable answer sometime is knowing when

Vit Muller: 00:26:13

to say no, because it's just too outside of your regular

Tom Adam: 00:26:16

I'm gonna be spending too much time for, not enough money for them.

Tom Adam: 00:26:19

Like, and they, they're not ready.

Tom Adam: 00:26:20

They're not also, you are not ready for me.

Tom Adam: 00:26:23

So what, what can I do to help you get ready for me?

Tom Adam: 00:26:26

Because my, my, I'm i, your thinking processes of, of where I'm at, to get

Tom Adam: 00:26:30

you your business to this point, you have to do, sometimes people have to

Tom Adam: 00:26:34

understand that change is ne necessary.

Tom Adam: 00:26:36

They're gonna understand that there's a process involved with doing things.

Tom Adam: 00:26:39

If they don't believe that there's, there has to be a documented process

Tom Adam: 00:26:41

or they have to be a way to do things.

Tom Adam: 00:26:43

If they're like, I'll just fucking do it and see, sorry, I, well, if they

Tom Adam: 00:26:46

just think I'm just gonna do it and see, sometimes they're not the best clients.

Tom Adam: 00:26:49

You need clients that have proven that they've tried everything.

Tom Adam: 00:26:53

Like I often ask them, how many CRMs have you tried?

Tom Adam: 00:26:55

How many email marketing systems have you tried?

Tom Adam: 00:26:57

How many different marketing agencies have you worked with?

Tom Adam: 00:27:00

Like, I just wanna see that they've tried.

Tom Adam: 00:27:01

And they go, oh, I've spent so much money on different things

Tom Adam: 00:27:04

and it's always been a headache.

Tom Adam: 00:27:05

Great.

Tom Adam: 00:27:06

Perfect.

Tom Adam: 00:27:07

You are the person who's looking for something.

Tom Adam: 00:27:08

You are me.

Tom Adam: 00:27:09

Six years ago, I. Right.

Tom Adam: 00:27:12

Like, how do I, how might I, this is that question again.

Tom Adam: 00:27:15

How might I help you get to the thinking process of that you need a solution

Tom Adam: 00:27:22

that can do all these things, but it's flexible enough to be prepared for you.

Vit Muller: 00:27:25

Yeah.

Tom Adam: 00:27:26

Yeah.

Tom Adam: 00:27:26

I, I'm, I just, I've got, I, I'm a GHA sales person.

Tom Adam: 00:27:29

I'm like, duh, duh, duh.

Tom Adam: 00:27:31

Walking around with a flag.

Tom Adam: 00:27:32

Like anybody ask me, I'll be like, yep.

Tom Adam: 00:27:33

I go high level.

Tom Adam: 00:27:34

I'm like, really?

Tom Adam: 00:27:34

I'm like, yep, a hundred percent.

Vit Muller: 00:27:35

Well, this is, I mean, this goes to everything.

Vit Muller: 00:27:37

I mean, when it comes to sales and marketing, it's just trying to

Vit Muller: 00:27:40

really understand the buyer journey.

Vit Muller: 00:27:42

Some people in the awareness, some people are unaware, some

Vit Muller: 00:27:44

people are in consideration, some people are in decision.

Vit Muller: 00:27:47

And you know, you're trying to help every one of those people at every

Vit Muller: 00:27:50

one of those stages and provide them a solution to keep moving them forward.

Vit Muller: 00:27:54

And one of the really great ways to do it is educational marketing, you know,

Vit Muller: 00:27:58

and then naturally that becomes inbound.

Vit Muller: 00:28:00

That's leverage, obviously, a lot of effort on the front end.

Vit Muller: 00:28:03

You gotta put out, create all that content, webinars, videos, all that.

Vit Muller: 00:28:07

But it works, right?

Vit Muller: 00:28:08

I've got like my website, al.com, right?

Vit Muller: 00:28:10

I have, sometimes I wake up and somebody purchased a snapshot

Vit Muller: 00:28:15

because the page does it.

Vit Muller: 00:28:16

Because the, you know, other thing, all the other activities that I'm

Vit Muller: 00:28:19

doing as an example, I'm not trying to brag here, but, you know, I'm

Tom Adam: 00:28:22

come on, man.

Tom Adam: 00:28:23

Humble brag.

Tom Adam: 00:28:23

Come on.

Vit Muller: 00:28:24

I'm just support supporting

Tom Adam: 00:28:26

Woo.

Vit Muller: 00:28:26

that it works.

Vit Muller: 00:28:27

Right.

Tom Adam: 00:28:27

That's my trumpet.

Tom Adam: 00:28:28

Woo.

Tom Adam: 00:28:29

Anyway.

Vit Muller: 00:28:30

Alright, let's, let's segue to the, to this next thing

Vit Muller: 00:28:32

I wanted to talk to you about and, and share it with the listeners.

Vit Muller: 00:28:34

And this is, the, the, it's about a strategy and for you guys, a

Vit Muller: 00:28:39

strategy that I've implemented, with Tom and it's worked for both of us.

Tom Adam: 00:28:42

a hundred percent.

Vit Muller: 00:28:43

strategy of how specifically talking to you guys, SaaS entrepreneurs,

Vit Muller: 00:28:48

not just agency, but those of you selling software as a, like a subscription, right?

Vit Muller: 00:28:52

JHL you know, you can do your own different channels, you can do

Vit Muller: 00:28:55

your own acquisition channels.

Vit Muller: 00:28:57

but I'm big on leverage.

Vit Muller: 00:28:59

I'm big on leverage and there's many ways to leverage one to

Vit Muller: 00:29:01

many webinars, things like that.

Vit Muller: 00:29:04

But, you know, if you're trying to enter in a particular niche.

Vit Muller: 00:29:08

Let's say go with tradies, for example.

Vit Muller: 00:29:10

Like, I had no idea.

Vit Muller: 00:29:11

I mean, I used to do concreting jobs, but that's as far as it goes.

Vit Muller: 00:29:14

But I don't really have any clue in,

Tom Adam: 00:29:16

concrete as we'll come back to it.

Vit Muller: 00:29:18

yeah, we'll do okay, you know, tradies.

Vit Muller: 00:29:20

So, but if I want, like, but I know that with GHL, you know, maybe the nuance

Vit Muller: 00:29:25

is, is what I don't know, but I know what's possible with GHL and that's

Vit Muller: 00:29:29

what I'm passionate about because it, it gets the creative juices flowing and

Vit Muller: 00:29:32

that's, that's what I love doing about GHL is trying to figure out solutions.

Vit Muller: 00:29:35

I know what the tools are and there's really no limit when it comes to it.

Vit Muller: 00:29:39

Like, I spoke to somebody the other day and I showed them the whole thing

Vit Muller: 00:29:42

and then they said, oh, but you don't, but you don't have like a, a thing,

Vit Muller: 00:29:46

you know, it doesn't really help me.

Vit Muller: 00:29:48

Like with the, figuring out candidates for job applications, I'm like, well, we

Vit Muller: 00:29:52

don't have like a feature or like, that's called that, but with the automations,

Vit Muller: 00:29:57

like you can definitely do that anyway.

Vit Muller: 00:29:59

so if I'm trying to get in a separate niche that I don't really know much about.

Vit Muller: 00:30:02

There's, there's ways how I could get into it.

Vit Muller: 00:30:05

I could try and research, I could, I could do the student approach and work with

Vit Muller: 00:30:07

one client and learn everything that way.

Vit Muller: 00:30:10

Or I could take a shortcut.

Vit Muller: 00:30:11

I could work with a coach, business coach that is in that niche.

Vit Muller: 00:30:16

That means they already have a massive list.

Vit Muller: 00:30:19

And what they don't have is understanding of the tech side of things and the

Vit Muller: 00:30:22

marketing background and all those things.

Vit Muller: 00:30:24

from, from the implementation perspective, I mean, right.

Vit Muller: 00:30:27

Not, not a strategic, obviously they would have that, but you know what I mean.

Vit Muller: 00:30:30

So you partner with somebody like that, build that relationship and.

Vit Muller: 00:30:35

Then you can do co-branded or co-host it, you know, webinars where, you know, you

Vit Muller: 00:30:41

promote each other and it's just, there's a synergy is what I'm trying to say.

Vit Muller: 00:30:44

And it's leveraged again.

Vit Muller: 00:30:46

So you get in a shortcut, you get in a short pass access to, to a

Vit Muller: 00:30:50

list, to a database that you don't have any, you know, any like in.

Vit Muller: 00:30:56

But, so that's what we've done.

Vit Muller: 00:30:57

Like do you wanna, do you wanna talk on that a little bit?

Vit Muller: 00:30:59

What we've

Tom Adam: 00:30:59

Oh yeah.

Tom Adam: 00:31:00

Look, and I, and I think I could give, I'll quickly correct that joke too.

Tom Adam: 00:31:02

How do you, how do you know when a concrete is on site?

Vit Muller: 00:31:06

the.

Tom Adam: 00:31:06

Don't worry, you can smell him anyway, so, the, I

Tom Adam: 00:31:11

can't help myself, so No, no.

Tom Adam: 00:31:12

I mean, look, and, and this is, this is, the, the guy's listening.

Tom Adam: 00:31:16

There's a company here in Australia called The Entourage.

Tom Adam: 00:31:18

Sorry, I'm just taking my jacket off.

Tom Adam: 00:31:19

It's suddenly gotten above 20 degrees in Canberra for the first time today.

Tom Adam: 00:31:23

we had, we had summer and now it's, it's winter.

Tom Adam: 00:31:25

there was no autumn.

Tom Adam: 00:31:27

Anyway, the, that's Canberra, so No, no.

Tom Adam: 00:31:29

So, the, this company called The Entourage, which is like, you know,

Tom Adam: 00:31:32

they, they get people in a room business, owners, and they develop them

Tom Adam: 00:31:35

up through levels and stuff like that.

Tom Adam: 00:31:36

I actually know one of the founders have worked with him for years,

Tom Adam: 00:31:40

and they did this great thing.

Tom Adam: 00:31:41

And so they ran an event, and they went to, a NZ Bank, Australian, New Zealand

Tom Adam: 00:31:45

bank, and they said, we will give all of your business customers a free ticket to

Tom Adam: 00:31:52

our live event online, like free training.

Tom Adam: 00:31:57

Can you email this out to all of your customers?

Tom Adam: 00:32:01

They got 8,000 email addresses then and there because they didn't,

Tom Adam: 00:32:06

they didn't contact the customers.

Tom Adam: 00:32:08

A NZ went out to its tens of thousands of business customers and said, Hey, here's

Tom Adam: 00:32:12

a free event that these guys are running.

Tom Adam: 00:32:14

It's worth a thousand dollars.

Tom Adam: 00:32:15

We've got your free ticket from a z 'cause you're a business

Tom Adam: 00:32:18

customer, yada, yada, yada.

Tom Adam: 00:32:20

Strategic partnerships vitally important for everybody.

Tom Adam: 00:32:23

and it's something that I need to explore, myself a little bit more in terms of

Tom Adam: 00:32:27

working with other coaches and saying, Hey, this, you know, like having a niche.

Tom Adam: 00:32:33

And so I'm working with another marketing coach who doesn't

Tom Adam: 00:32:37

have the approach that I do.

Tom Adam: 00:32:39

So potentially there is an opportunity for me to sell my snapshot to her,

Tom Adam: 00:32:45

but she doesn't use go high level.

Tom Adam: 00:32:47

So who am I gonna get to her to talk to?

Tom Adam: 00:32:49

Or she does use Go high level, but she doesn't do it well.

Tom Adam: 00:32:52

So who do I get her to talk to?

Tom Adam: 00:32:53

I say, no, no, you gotta, you gotta, you've got a couple of

Tom Adam: 00:32:55

clients using go high level, right?

Tom Adam: 00:32:57

Bring him across here.

Tom Adam: 00:32:58

I've got a guy who's gonna help you, and if they want support setting

Tom Adam: 00:33:01

it up, they can pay him to do it.

Tom Adam: 00:33:02

They can do all that sort of stuff.

Tom Adam: 00:33:04

I know that they're gonna be working with go high level, but they're gonna

Tom Adam: 00:33:07

be working with a trusted partner.

Tom Adam: 00:33:08

But I also know they're gonna be working with someone who's gonna

Tom Adam: 00:33:11

message me and say, Hey Tom, can you call this person up and sort this out?

Tom Adam: 00:33:15

And so vice versa, vice versa.

Tom Adam: 00:33:17

So I've got a little bit of an in with that as well, but

Tom Adam: 00:33:19

also, I don't have the capacity.

Tom Adam: 00:33:21

I have the capability, but I don't have the cap, the capacity to

Tom Adam: 00:33:24

manage sub-accounts and do all that stuff and, and manage all that.

Tom Adam: 00:33:28

I, I'm, I'm, I've got my own clubs, I've got my own staff.

Tom Adam: 00:33:31

I've got three kids, a wife, two dogs, four cats, a fish tank, you know,

Tom Adam: 00:33:35

and, and I've got all these things.

Tom Adam: 00:33:36

I can't, I can't have the time.

Tom Adam: 00:33:38

So I need to outsource that.

Tom Adam: 00:33:39

So when I'm working with a client and they go, can you fix this?

Tom Adam: 00:33:41

And I go, is it, is it a software issue?

Tom Adam: 00:33:44

Is it a coding issue?

Tom Adam: 00:33:45

You know?

Tom Adam: 00:33:45

Yes.

Tom Adam: 00:33:46

Okay.

Tom Adam: 00:33:48

you know, is it a, like, can you fix an automation or an email or whatever it is?

Tom Adam: 00:33:51

I'm like, oh, here's a video that I've made showing you how to fix that.

Tom Adam: 00:33:54

Or I'll just do it while we're on a call, or whatever it is.

Tom Adam: 00:33:57

So there's that great sort of separate, but it also means that I don't have

Tom Adam: 00:34:00

to outsource someone and VIT doesn't have to outsource someone for a

Tom Adam: 00:34:04

particular part of his business as well.

Tom Adam: 00:34:05

So, you know, it's, it's really, it's a really fascinating thing and I, I

Tom Adam: 00:34:09

think there's, we've talked about this before, there's other opportunities

Tom Adam: 00:34:12

for us to tap into the local market because I've got my own local business

Tom Adam: 00:34:16

presence and vie has a solution.

Tom Adam: 00:34:18

So how do we work together to help people understand the power of whatever

Tom Adam: 00:34:23

that, you know, stand up from the pack is, you know, your example of whatever

Tom Adam: 00:34:26

that product is that we put to them.

Tom Adam: 00:34:27

What's the power of putting that product out?

Vit Muller: 00:34:30

And, and I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm not, I have no

Vit Muller: 00:34:33

problem with sharing guys, you know, I mean, this is strategy that works

Vit Muller: 00:34:36

work, you know, this relationship with Tom, you know, he's made of mine.

Vit Muller: 00:34:39

He is working really well for us.

Tom Adam: 00:34:40

Oh, and we are, we are fiercely frank with each other too.

Tom Adam: 00:34:43

To the point of you go, every now and then Vic sends me an email and I go, oh.

Tom Adam: 00:34:47

Oh, okay.

Tom Adam: 00:34:48

He means, well, no, I'm kidding.

Vit Muller: 00:34:51

yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:34:52

You know, yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:34:52

I mean, I'm, yeah, sometimes I can be blunt.

Vit Muller: 00:34:54

I get it.

Tom Adam: 00:34:55

I am too.

Tom Adam: 00:34:55

Don't worry.

Vit Muller: 00:34:57

but yeah, what I wanna just say is, Just to give you guys an example.

Vit Muller: 00:35:00

Like what, because this is like a flywheel, like Tom has got

Vit Muller: 00:35:03

his coaching program, right?

Vit Muller: 00:35:05

I've got the software and I've got the fulfillment side of things and I've

Vit Muller: 00:35:08

got snapshots and roadmaps things.

Vit Muller: 00:35:10

And Tom has built together, you know, Hilton together.

Vit Muller: 00:35:14

but based on his experience running his two clubs, he's put together

Vit Muller: 00:35:16

really solid snapshots specific for martial arts club, right?

Vit Muller: 00:35:20

So I helped to support that, right?

Vit Muller: 00:35:21

But in any case, we did, we did a thing back.

Vit Muller: 00:35:26

It was.

Vit Muller: 00:35:28

December last year.

Vit Muller: 00:35:29

we're gonna do it again actually.

Tom Adam: 00:35:30

Oh yeah, and we did it the year before as well.

Tom Adam: 00:35:32

It

Vit Muller: 00:35:32

yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:35:33

So the idea was let's do a webinar, right?

Vit Muller: 00:35:36

So Tom, you marketed to all the martial art contacts that you

Vit Muller: 00:35:39

have and we got them onto webinar.

Vit Muller: 00:35:40

Now, the webinar was, wasn't me presenting on my own.

Vit Muller: 00:35:43

It was, we actually did one for one.

Vit Muller: 00:35:46

We had, you know, slides where you talked about strategy and related to martial

Vit Muller: 00:35:49

arts running, and that was that relevance.

Vit Muller: 00:35:51

And they could, they could empathize because you are, you're

Vit Muller: 00:35:54

an northern of a martial arts club.

Vit Muller: 00:35:55

And then I would take a slide and then talk about AI and like open the

Vit Muller: 00:35:59

eyes about, like, open their mind about the possibilities of tech.

Vit Muller: 00:36:02

And we just kept supporting each other and kept like, you

Vit Muller: 00:36:05

know, it was very synergistics.

Vit Muller: 00:36:06

And at the end we had an offer for, what do we do?

Vit Muller: 00:36:08

We did the, we did a 30 day bootcamp, right?

Vit Muller: 00:36:11

So we said, guys, you're gonna get it first.

Vit Muller: 00:36:13

Get a 30 day access to, you know, my version of GHL stand out from the pack.

Vit Muller: 00:36:18

As part of the 30 days, me and Tom we're gonna guide you and you at the end of the

Vit Muller: 00:36:22

30 days, you will have, and we just picked things that are low hanging through.

Vit Muller: 00:36:26

They're not too complex.

Vit Muller: 00:36:27

They're really scalable.

Vit Muller: 00:36:29

Me call back, what else we do, chat, chat widget, on the website, like

Vit Muller: 00:36:33

little things, but they're impactful.

Vit Muller: 00:36:34

You know, some of these,

Tom Adam: 00:36:35

Oh, we also, but also did, I did stuff like brand

Tom Adam: 00:36:37

awareness campaigns on their

Vit Muller: 00:36:38

oh yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:36:38

So I'm just talking the software side.

Vit Muller: 00:36:41

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:36:41

And then obviously you had the, you had the educational aspects and we

Vit Muller: 00:36:44

just, we just, you know, put that into a program, into the syllabus.

Vit Muller: 00:36:47

And every week we covered different things, but it was sort

Vit Muller: 00:36:50

of building up upon each other.

Vit Muller: 00:36:51

So by the time 30 days in, they, they actually helped themselves

Vit Muller: 00:36:55

build stuff with our support.

Vit Muller: 00:36:57

Naturally they would not roll over into the first pain month.

Vit Muller: 00:37:01

And now the other, the other kick side of it was, well then that's where the

Vit Muller: 00:37:05

upsell comes in for, for, for you.

Vit Muller: 00:37:06

That's what we did there.

Vit Muller: 00:37:07

So they then sign up with you for their ongoing coaching.

Vit Muller: 00:37:10

And, but it's like, you gotta think about it like a flywheel, like right, so Tom,

Vit Muller: 00:37:14

he can send people to me and then I can send them back to him and then vice versa.

Vit Muller: 00:37:20

So it's, you know, it just becomes a leverage relationship.

Vit Muller: 00:37:23

And I hope you're taking some notes.

Vit Muller: 00:37:25

'cause I think, you know, I think I'm not, I just think, and I know it works, it's

Vit Muller: 00:37:29

what's worked for us and you know, for me is now how do I apply that same principle

Tom Adam: 00:37:35

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:37:35

industries industry that to is not a subject matter

Vit Muller: 00:37:38

expert, but there are other people, there are, you know, maybe Eric or

Tom Adam: 00:37:41

can't wait to see how awesome that's gonna work out

Vit Muller: 00:37:43

Ah mate.

Vit Muller: 00:37:43

Yeah.

Tom Adam: 00:37:44

and, but also it means that it, it means that I know that you are,

Tom Adam: 00:37:47

you know, that you've got, it's, you've got revenue coming from my clients.

Tom Adam: 00:37:52

So that you are also invested in it, like that you have an investment in it as well.

Tom Adam: 00:37:58

that you know that it's not that thing where you just, you know, I'm

Tom Adam: 00:38:00

not, if I'm asking you for help, it's not you going, oh, I have

Tom Adam: 00:38:04

to do this for free for this guy.

Tom Adam: 00:38:06

Like, 'cause that, that does wear on you when you get people who just

Tom Adam: 00:38:08

constantly ask for free advice.

Tom Adam: 00:38:10

I've got several people in my life like that.

Vit Muller: 00:38:12

So you, I mean, there there is that's a good point.

Vit Muller: 00:38:14

So there is, you, you wanna make sure that that relationship is,

Vit Muller: 00:38:17

is, makes business sense as well.

Vit Muller: 00:38:19

Right.

Vit Muller: 00:38:20

There's a couple of ways, you know, the old school way is reciprocal, right.

Vit Muller: 00:38:22

But unfortunately it's like BNI, right?

Vit Muller: 00:38:25

The idea is that you refer somebody, you give back and then

Vit Muller: 00:38:27

they, they hopefully refer back to you, which is, which is nice.

Tom Adam: 00:38:30

cards that you end up with that don't mean anything.

Vit Muller: 00:38:33

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:38:33

Which, oh well it can, but it's, it takes a lot of work.

Vit Muller: 00:38:36

But unfortunately the, the main thing is that the reciprocal thing, it, it's,

Vit Muller: 00:38:39

it's, it's quite often not even scale.

Vit Muller: 00:38:42

Like, I might be able to get more referrals from somebody that'd

Vit Muller: 00:38:45

be able to give them referrals.

Vit Muller: 00:38:47

So what I'd like to say is, well, and I'm upfront with that, let's say

Vit Muller: 00:38:50

in some of the networking groups, because, you know, may they have,

Vit Muller: 00:38:53

maybe have more connections, whatever.

Vit Muller: 00:38:55

That's when you wanna bring in an affiliate to it.

Vit Muller: 00:38:58

Say, look, I might not always have somebody to refer back to you,

Vit Muller: 00:39:01

but anybody referred you to me.

Vit Muller: 00:39:03

You know, I'll give you a kickback.

Vit Muller: 00:39:04

We'll just do the affiliate thing.

Vit Muller: 00:39:06

So you just gotta work out like, ways to make it work for, for

Vit Muller: 00:39:09

everybody to be, to be a win-win.

Vit Muller: 00:39:11

Yeah.

Tom Adam: 00:39:13

a hundred

Vit Muller: 00:39:13

Where do we go from here?

Tom Adam: 00:39:15

Where do we, where do we go from here?

Tom Adam: 00:39:17

That's an old song.

Tom Adam: 00:39:18

the, you don't remember that one anyway?

Tom Adam: 00:39:20

no.

Tom Adam: 00:39:20

Oh, gosh.

Tom Adam: 00:39:21

there was a, a, a, a cake company took it up and used it

Tom Adam: 00:39:24

as an ad on TV in the nineties.

Tom Adam: 00:39:26

Like it was like a, a thing, but it was an actual song.

Tom Adam: 00:39:29

I, I look, I think it, I think it's like been, it's been, I think it's one

Tom Adam: 00:39:32

of those things like I, you know, I am looking for, I'm, I am, I really like.

Tom Adam: 00:39:38

Working in the niche that I've got.

Tom Adam: 00:39:40

So I work with dance, yoga, martial arts movement clubs.

Tom Adam: 00:39:44

A swim school reached out to me and I was like, ah, brilliant.

Tom Adam: 00:39:48

'cause it's exactly the same model.

Tom Adam: 00:39:50

So can you, this is the whole thing we talk about, a Americans

Tom Adam: 00:39:54

say niche, it drives me nuts.

Tom Adam: 00:39:55

It's niche anyway.

Tom Adam: 00:39:56

It's the word, it's a French word anyway.

Tom Adam: 00:39:58

but the, the, the, my wife's French, so I have to be a

Tom Adam: 00:40:01

pedantic little thing about it.

Tom Adam: 00:40:02

But the, the, if you are looking at what your, your niche niche

Tom Adam: 00:40:06

is, whatever it is, there is a potential for you to think about.

Tom Adam: 00:40:11

Don't think symmetrically, think asymmetrically.

Tom Adam: 00:40:13

Like what, what are other businesses?

Tom Adam: 00:40:15

So I started out in martial arts and then I, dance school

Tom Adam: 00:40:18

is one of my main customers.

Tom Adam: 00:40:19

And I was like, well, hang on a minute.

Tom Adam: 00:40:21

This is not, this is not a bad thing.

Tom Adam: 00:40:25

'cause that's the same model as I've, I've got.

Tom Adam: 00:40:27

So what?

Vit Muller: 00:40:28

the vehicle is the same.

Vit Muller: 00:40:29

It's

Tom Adam: 00:40:29

Yeah, exactly.

Tom Adam: 00:40:30

Exactly.

Tom Adam: 00:40:30

It's a different, different brand.

Tom Adam: 00:40:31

Exactly.

Tom Adam: 00:40:31

Right.

Tom Adam: 00:40:32

So what is, what is the model that we're offering?

Tom Adam: 00:40:34

Parents bring their, like children and adults come to our facility.

Tom Adam: 00:40:38

Our instructors teach them to do something, and the parents in, in return,

Tom Adam: 00:40:42

we, we generate revenue from that service.

Tom Adam: 00:40:45

So what other, what other models are there out there for that?

Tom Adam: 00:40:49

So there's a park horse school.

Tom Adam: 00:40:51

there's, and this is why I went to movement clubs 'cause it's

Tom Adam: 00:40:53

not just dance, yoga, fitness.

Tom Adam: 00:40:55

It's, you know, it is, it is a swim school.

Tom Adam: 00:40:58

It is a park hall school's, park hall school down the road.

Tom Adam: 00:41:00

I'm like totally gonna hit this guy up.

Tom Adam: 00:41:01

it's even after school programs who, who are looking to expand what they do.

Tom Adam: 00:41:08

There's, there's so much to this.

Tom Adam: 00:41:11

And then I start, I've gotta take a step back and go, okay, what parts

Tom Adam: 00:41:13

of, what snapshot that I've got together do people actually need?

Tom Adam: 00:41:18

and so, you know, some people, I'm gonna bring them on board and I go,

Tom Adam: 00:41:20

okay, you only need this element, right?

Tom Adam: 00:41:22

And when you are ready, I will then give you the next step.

Tom Adam: 00:41:26

And when you are ready for the next step, I'll ne because sometimes if you give

Tom Adam: 00:41:29

everybody everything, they just go into.

Tom Adam: 00:41:31

Overwhelmed when they just break them.

Vit Muller: 00:41:33

And also if, if it was a massive thing, you would've to

Vit Muller: 00:41:36

charge a lot more money to fulfill on that, which is a friction, right?

Vit Muller: 00:41:39

So, I mean, this is a good segue into the importance of actually thinking

Vit Muller: 00:41:43

modules and thinking functions of a particular, you know, subset or,

Vit Muller: 00:41:48

you know, set of workflows that's a function for this, and that might

Vit Muller: 00:41:51

just be enough for, for the status.

Vit Muller: 00:41:52

You know, just give them something winning.

Vit Muller: 00:41:55

and then you build from there.

Vit Muller: 00:41:56

And now you know, like that's the idea, right?

Vit Muller: 00:41:58

You give 'em something, they start winning, they're gonna open that wallet.

Vit Muller: 00:42:02

Next time you ask, you know, offer them the next thing, it's gonna be a no

Tom Adam: 00:42:04

yeah, I've got a client that I'm starting to work with

Tom Adam: 00:42:07

who's not ready for go high level.

Vit Muller: 00:42:08

Mm-hmm.

Tom Adam: 00:42:09

She's just not ready for it.

Tom Adam: 00:42:10

'cause she uses blah, blah, blah, blah.

Tom Adam: 00:42:12

She's got all these spinning plates.

Tom Adam: 00:42:14

I use it, spinning plates everywhere.

Tom Adam: 00:42:15

And I'm like, okay, let's get you going.

Tom Adam: 00:42:18

All right.

Tom Adam: 00:42:18

But the thing is, she's gonna get to the point where she's generating 20,

Tom Adam: 00:42:21

30 plus leads a week and, and I'm gonna make sure I keep track of all of that.

Tom Adam: 00:42:26

Don't worry.

Tom Adam: 00:42:26

Then I'm gonna say to her, what are you doing with 'em all?

Tom Adam: 00:42:28

Oh, I'm trying to do, I'm like, you emailing them?

Tom Adam: 00:42:31

Are you doing this?

Tom Adam: 00:42:31

Oh, it's all too hard.

Tom Adam: 00:42:32

Really?

Tom Adam: 00:42:33

Why is it too hard?

Tom Adam: 00:42:35

Ah, because I've gotta log into here and I've got, and I go spend, and I go, let's

Tom Adam: 00:42:38

put a spreadsheet, all the money that you spend on these different programs,

Vit Muller: 00:42:42

And time logging in, logging out all

Tom Adam: 00:42:44

hundred percent.

Vit Muller: 00:42:45

data not being congruent.

Tom Adam: 00:42:47

And you know, are you having, you know, do things talk to each other?

Tom Adam: 00:42:51

No.

Tom Adam: 00:42:51

Okay, cool.

Tom Adam: 00:42:51

Let's do this.

Tom Adam: 00:42:52

Let's put it all here.

Tom Adam: 00:42:53

Right now you've got all your staff on here.

Tom Adam: 00:42:55

Instead of using Twilio for Kanbans, you've got pipelines.

Tom Adam: 00:42:59

You

Vit Muller: 00:42:59

What if you, so I know you said you're gonna let her do that for

Vit Muller: 00:43:02

now, but what if you, what if you like show her the future kind of thing?

Vit Muller: 00:43:06

Like here's what's gonna

Tom Adam: 00:43:07

Oh, I've showed her.

Tom Adam: 00:43:08

No, it's budget for her.

Tom Adam: 00:43:09

Right now.

Tom Adam: 00:43:09

It's, it's purely budget.

Tom Adam: 00:43:11

So it's like, okay, cool.

Tom Adam: 00:43:12

I'm gonna flood your school with, with leads.

Tom Adam: 00:43:14

Let's work on that first.

Tom Adam: 00:43:15

And it's like, and so this is the thing.

Tom Adam: 00:43:17

So like I. Don't be afraid.

Tom Adam: 00:43:20

I'm saying to the people that the other sapr that are working

Tom Adam: 00:43:22

with, with, with partners.

Tom Adam: 00:43:23

Don't be afraid to work with people that sometimes they don't

Tom Adam: 00:43:26

have clients that are ready yet.

Tom Adam: 00:43:27

Because I'm sure as shit, making sure that she's gonna have a high level and she's

Tom Adam: 00:43:32

a, she's gonna be a customer of yours.

Tom Adam: 00:43:34

And it's like, so how do I nurture her in the meantime to make sure that when

Tom Adam: 00:43:38

she's ready to go, that she's ready to go.

Tom Adam: 00:43:40

And so that may be even me doing some stuff in the background and having

Tom Adam: 00:43:46

a chat of it and saying, Hey, let's set up a, like a sub account, right?

Tom Adam: 00:43:49

And then, you know, just sit, let it sit there, ready to go.

Tom Adam: 00:43:52

So when she's ready to go, it's, it's on, like it's, it's, it's, it's ready to go.

Tom Adam: 00:43:57

Like when I, when I know that she's ready for it, and I go, oh, that's really good.

Tom Adam: 00:44:00

Here we go.

Tom Adam: 00:44:01

You know?

Tom Adam: 00:44:01

And I, I roll it into my fees and I pay it, right?

Tom Adam: 00:44:04

'cause, you know, or, or whatever the solution is.

Tom Adam: 00:44:06

But you've got this thing.

Tom Adam: 00:44:08

'cause then for the client, it's not so much of a, it's not a sudden.

Tom Adam: 00:44:12

I've gotta do all this extra thing.

Tom Adam: 00:44:13

It's like, no, no, no.

Tom Adam: 00:44:13

We've already, I'm, I'm gonna be getting her to think the way that I want.

Tom Adam: 00:44:19

That I, that, okay, we've got this coming in here.

Tom Adam: 00:44:21

What are you doing?

Tom Adam: 00:44:21

How are you managing these people?

Tom Adam: 00:44:23

Are we doing that there?

Tom Adam: 00:44:23

Okay, cool.

Tom Adam: 00:44:24

So you've got a trial management system that manages people over two weeks.

Tom Adam: 00:44:27

Cool.

Tom Adam: 00:44:28

How are you using it?

Tom Adam: 00:44:28

Are we using, Trello, not Twilio.

Tom Adam: 00:44:30

Trello.

Tom Adam: 00:44:31

She's using Kanbans.

Tom Adam: 00:44:32

Alright, so you are used to that tile system.

Tom Adam: 00:44:34

Adding notes sounds like a pipeline to me.

Tom Adam: 00:44:38

So like it's, you know, like, it's like, oh, you use email system.

Tom Adam: 00:44:40

So you log in here and you've gotta have everybody's details here.

Tom Adam: 00:44:43

Yeah.

Tom Adam: 00:44:43

You've got a CRM and it's got an API.

Tom Adam: 00:44:45

Okay.

Tom Adam: 00:44:46

So we can, we can get 'em to talk.

Tom Adam: 00:44:48

Okay.

Tom Adam: 00:44:49

You know what I mean?

Tom Adam: 00:44:50

Like, so there's, there's things, there's, there's, there's already

Tom Adam: 00:44:52

modules in a way that she does things and then it's just moving across and,

Tom Adam: 00:44:55

and I think that's, that's nurturing, but knowing that I have somebody

Tom Adam: 00:44:57

that I can take her to straight away.

Tom Adam: 00:44:59

Rather than me as a coach getting to a point and going, I, I can't assist you.

Tom Adam: 00:45:03

Go and figure it out for yourself.

Tom Adam: 00:45:04

And this is where my coaches failed me in the past, is that

Tom Adam: 00:45:07

they never gave me solutions.

Tom Adam: 00:45:09

They said, here is the way I want you to do this.

Tom Adam: 00:45:12

Go and

Vit Muller: 00:45:12

is, which is which, let's face it, anything new is a disruption

Vit Muller: 00:45:15

to the way you're used to doing it.

Vit Muller: 00:45:17

So if, if a main goal is to provide value and be valuable to the client,

Vit Muller: 00:45:23

you know, it's what you just said is just being, being, thinking ahead

Vit Muller: 00:45:27

two steps ahead of the client so that their experience is smooth.

Vit Muller: 00:45:31

And also you're creating the aspect of over delivery, which is

Vit Muller: 00:45:37

they're gonna love you more for it.

Vit Muller: 00:45:38

So then naturally that the word's gonna spread out.

Vit Muller: 00:45:42

You're gonna have great reputation than that leads naturally into getting

Vit Muller: 00:45:45

motor fellows, which is, I mean, I, I keep talking about this concept of,

Vit Muller: 00:45:50

you know, reputation and referrals.

Vit Muller: 00:45:52

It should be the, the should be the, the, the foundation of any solid business.

Vit Muller: 00:45:56

Like, everybody's too concerned with, I need more leads.

Vit Muller: 00:45:58

I need more leads.

Vit Muller: 00:45:59

I need more leads.

Vit Muller: 00:46:00

Well, no, you got a shit reputation.

Vit Muller: 00:46:02

You got a leaky bucket.

Vit Muller: 00:46:03

So you, why are you pissing money away, giving money to Zach?

Vit Muller: 00:46:06

Fix that.

Vit Muller: 00:46:07

Now you've earned your right to ask that client for a referral

Vit Muller: 00:46:09

because now they love you.

Vit Muller: 00:46:11

because, you know, you, you, you took it to heart.

Vit Muller: 00:46:13

Whatever they said, whatever the feedback was, you took it to heart

Vit Muller: 00:46:16

rather than being emotional about it and you improved your quality of

Vit Muller: 00:46:19

service, whatever that is that you do, it's just like, it just makes,

Tom Adam: 00:46:23

it's funny, I'm, I'm doing this training on how to advertise my own

Tom Adam: 00:46:26

product better, and one of the guys gave me the most brutal pieces of fa feedback.

Tom Adam: 00:46:32

It was absolutely brutal.

Tom Adam: 00:46:34

And I literally wrote a comment, ha ha, ha, burn.

Tom Adam: 00:46:37

Okay, I'll do what I can.

Tom Adam: 00:46:39

And that's literally the amount of time it took me to type.

Tom Adam: 00:46:42

That is the amount of time that I was upset about it.

Vit Muller: 00:46:44

Mm-hmm.

Tom Adam: 00:46:45

And you have to.

Tom Adam: 00:46:47

Grow the fuck up and not be upset when somebody says to you, I'm, I'm

Tom Adam: 00:46:51

sorry, I'm having this conversation with my 16-year-old daughter.

Tom Adam: 00:46:54

When someone says, I'm not happy with how this happened, don't hear, oh, woe is me.

Tom Adam: 00:47:00

I'm shit, and I'm a horrible person and no one likes me.

Tom Adam: 00:47:04

What you should be hearing is this is an opportunity for me to grow and this

Tom Adam: 00:47:07

is an opportunity for me to better.

Vit Muller: 00:47:09

Yeah, I mean, this is like understanding how you get yourself outside

Vit Muller: 00:47:13

of that emotional state because, you know, this is the same thing, like when

Vit Muller: 00:47:16

you have a, when you have an argument with your wife, you know, and then you

Vit Muller: 00:47:18

go into the, they call it, I think the, the, therapist, they call it, you know,

Vit Muller: 00:47:21

you, you go into this washing machine.

Vit Muller: 00:47:23

Like now, once you're in the washing machine, you gotta wait

Vit Muller: 00:47:26

until that program runs out.

Vit Muller: 00:47:27

There's nothing to do.

Vit Muller: 00:47:28

You can't do anything if it's, if it's a wife that's like, gone into that

Vit Muller: 00:47:32

state or, or myself, like, she might wind me up and I'm like, fucking, like,

Vit Muller: 00:47:36

you know, I get, I get, I get cranked up, so I'm in an emotional state.

Vit Muller: 00:47:40

But then what, you know, are you, I'm, I'm sure everybody's been through this.

Vit Muller: 00:47:43

You have a fight, you have an argument, and then it's a period of being quiet.

Vit Muller: 00:47:47

Everybody goes to their own corner or whatever, then a few hours later

Vit Muller: 00:47:50

you go apologetic back to each other.

Tom Adam: 00:47:53

tanty in your bed.

Tom Adam: 00:47:54

That's all right.

Vit Muller: 00:47:55

You know, you realize you were dick and you realize,

Vit Muller: 00:47:57

yeah, yeah, that wasn't cool.

Vit Muller: 00:47:59

That wasn't cool, whatever.

Vit Muller: 00:48:00

So.

Tom Adam: 00:48:01

one of those ba the, yeah, those that, what is it on?

Tom Adam: 00:48:03

was it big Mouth.

Tom Adam: 00:48:04

The cartoon.

Tom Adam: 00:48:05

She's like, that's it, honey, the hormone Monster.

Tom Adam: 00:48:07

Jump into your bed and cry so hard that you don't make any noise.

Vit Muller: 00:48:11

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:48:11

Yeah.

Tom Adam: 00:48:12

Sorry.

Vit Muller: 00:48:13

All right.

Vit Muller: 00:48:13

So we've, we've covered, we've covered some strategy.

Vit Muller: 00:48:16

We've, we've, we've been philosophical a little bit as well.

Vit Muller: 00:48:18

I think values there.

Vit Muller: 00:48:20

Let's go into some nuts and bolts of, technical questions.

Vit Muller: 00:48:23

I've got a couple of rapid fire questions.

Vit Muller: 00:48:25

it's a good little segment.

Vit Muller: 00:48:26

so what,

Tom Adam: 00:48:27

Ready?

Tom Adam: 00:48:27

Go.

Vit Muller: 00:48:29

yeah, what, what, lemme bring up my note here.

Vit Muller: 00:48:31

What about high level originally grabbed your attention.

Vit Muller: 00:48:33

Was there something specific or a problem you were trying to solve?

Tom Adam: 00:48:37

Yeah, I think it's, really quickly it was the fact is that I had

Tom Adam: 00:48:40

email SMS, like all the communication cha, I'm a communication specialist,

Tom Adam: 00:48:44

so all the communication channels in some, a simple place that all of

Tom Adam: 00:48:48

my staff could access and see the same information at the same time.

Vit Muller: 00:48:51

I love it.

Vit Muller: 00:48:52

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:48:52

That's a big draw card.

Vit Muller: 00:48:53

That one.

Vit Muller: 00:48:53

A hundred percent.

Vit Muller: 00:48:54

And still to this day, what new high level feature or, or, or digital

Vit Muller: 00:48:59

marketing solution in general are you most excited about using right now and why?

Tom Adam: 00:49:03

if I could figure out how to use custom objects, that'd be gold.

Tom Adam: 00:49:07

But, I think like for us, like the building on things that other

Tom Adam: 00:49:10

solutions don't do really well.

Tom Adam: 00:49:12

So for me as a martial artist, it's like styles.

Tom Adam: 00:49:15

Of martial arts, having belt ranks and then connecting gradings

Tom Adam: 00:49:19

so that I can manage people.

Tom Adam: 00:49:21

'cause I'm managing people through a timeline of experience.

Tom Adam: 00:49:25

So if I can manage, like I, you know, I, I, I'm trying to do it

Tom Adam: 00:49:28

through pipelines, but it's quite difficult because it's over years.

Tom Adam: 00:49:31

It's not over weeks and days.

Tom Adam: 00:49:33

So it's like, how do I build in this sort of ranking system into

Tom Adam: 00:49:36

go high level, for my own clubs?

Tom Adam: 00:49:39

I don't give a shit whether I sell it to clients or not.

Vit Muller: 00:49:41

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:49:42

Yes.

Vit Muller: 00:49:42

You wanna have something.

Vit Muller: 00:49:43

Yeah, that sounds, and I, I had that thought as well.

Vit Muller: 00:49:45

Like, I mean, could be custom objects.

Vit Muller: 00:49:47

You've got a custom object, which is called white label, sorry,

Vit Muller: 00:49:51

white belt, you know, yellow belt.

Vit Muller: 00:49:53

Each one being that.

Vit Muller: 00:49:54

And then you have association with all the contacts that are in that belt category.

Vit Muller: 00:49:58

That could be maybe that way.

Vit Muller: 00:50:00

yeah, I mean, this is one of those things with high level, right?

Vit Muller: 00:50:03

Sometimes you just gotta dig in and then go down the rabbit hole, the Alice in

Vit Muller: 00:50:06

the Wonderland, and you figure it out.

Vit Muller: 00:50:08

I mean, the beautiful thing about high level is it just keeps evolving.

Vit Muller: 00:50:12

It just keeps getting better.

Vit Muller: 00:50:13

I mean, we, we've talked about it so many times.

Vit Muller: 00:50:15

We get, we get, you know, we, we tend to nitpick right?

Vit Muller: 00:50:18

When we have our calls, right?

Vit Muller: 00:50:19

It's like, oh, this thing, I mean, we should do that, that thing, and

Vit Muller: 00:50:21

I'm gonna, but then you hear other people and then they just say,

Vit Muller: 00:50:24

you know, oh, it doesn't do that.

Vit Muller: 00:50:25

You know, I, I'm not using it for that.

Vit Muller: 00:50:27

I, I'm using this other software.

Vit Muller: 00:50:28

But that's like going.

Vit Muller: 00:50:30

Two steps back as well, you know, because then few months later you look and like,

Vit Muller: 00:50:34

Hey, by the way, you know, I know you're using that separate thing because high

Vit Muller: 00:50:36

level didn't have it, but it has it

Tom Adam: 00:50:38

Oh mate.

Tom Adam: 00:50:39

If they could do like better like attendance records and

Tom Adam: 00:50:43

better subscription management.

Tom Adam: 00:50:44

Oh, that's like one that's like 150 bucks a month for software.

Tom Adam: 00:50:48

I don't need

Vit Muller: 00:50:49

Yeah.

Tom Adam: 00:50:50

the high level's.

Tom Adam: 00:50:50

Not there yet.

Vit Muller: 00:50:51

It's not there yet.

Vit Muller: 00:50:52

But the point I'm trying to say is I am fully on high level.

Vit Muller: 00:50:56

'cause I know the things will be there,

Tom Adam: 00:50:58

Oh yeah.

Tom Adam: 00:50:58

Absolutely.

Tom Adam: 00:50:58

Yeah.

Tom Adam: 00:50:59

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:50:59

I'm happy to.

Vit Muller: 00:51:00

Yeah, it's it's that.

Tom Adam: 00:51:01

Next question.

Vit Muller: 00:51:02

next question.

Vit Muller: 00:51:03

What are you looking forward most, in the upcoming, how will future releases?

Tom Adam: 00:51:06

Oh my God, I don't look at that.

Tom Adam: 00:51:08

I gotta be honest with you.

Tom Adam: 00:51:09

I, I, I'll be really, really, really honest with you.

Tom Adam: 00:51:11

I think that's your problem.

Tom Adam: 00:51:12

Um, no, no.

Tom Adam: 00:51:15

I think it's, it's, for me, it's like, my clients like, it's, it's stability

Tom Adam: 00:51:20

is really, really important for my clients and I, so I, I tend to not

Tom Adam: 00:51:24

explore new features until they've been rolled out and tested by other people.

Tom Adam: 00:51:28

I am an early adopter, so for myself, I would love to spend more time, playing

Tom Adam: 00:51:33

with things, but often find that if I do that, I take away time from other things.

Tom Adam: 00:51:36

So I have to be really ruthless.

Tom Adam: 00:51:38

So I'm managing my club, or I'm consulting people, or I'm spending a little bit

Tom Adam: 00:51:42

of time on, on future development.

Tom Adam: 00:51:44

And that little bit of time each week has gotta be playing with things

Tom Adam: 00:51:46

that are already tested and working.

Tom Adam: 00:51:48

So I'm can't wait to see what happens in the future, but I'm

Tom Adam: 00:51:51

really, it's not even on my radar,

Vit Muller: 00:51:52

Yeah, no, you're doing, you're doing the right thing.

Vit Muller: 00:51:54

You're doing the smart thing.

Vit Muller: 00:51:55

It's not getting, you're not getting distracted by

Tom Adam: 00:51:58

the shiny syndrome.

Vit Muller: 00:52:00

You know, I used to, I used to call this like my

Vit Muller: 00:52:02

morning coffee thing with Sean.

Vit Muller: 00:52:04

Like I would log in every morning, go to Facebook and look

Vit Muller: 00:52:07

at Sean's coming at your videos.

Vit Muller: 00:52:10

I haven't done those in a while because, you know, now we have,

Vit Muller: 00:52:14

we have the guys doing the weekly one, you know, it's a bit longer.

Vit Muller: 00:52:17

Ryan and Chase, right.

Vit Muller: 00:52:18

Chase Buckner and Ryan Howell.

Vit Muller: 00:52:19

They do the weekly release rate they call it, which is a, basically a

Vit Muller: 00:52:23

summary of everything that's shown has been, you know, explaining

Vit Muller: 00:52:26

all the little, little, updates.

Vit Muller: 00:52:28

So they put it into one nice long video.

Vit Muller: 00:52:30

It is 44 minutes, but it's once a week and you just play it.

Vit Muller: 00:52:32

And to expect, for me, it's important, right?

Vit Muller: 00:52:34

I'm in, I'm in the SaaS space, so for me, I gotta be on top of it to understand

Vit Muller: 00:52:38

what's coming, what's available now.

Vit Muller: 00:52:39

Right.

Vit Muller: 00:52:40

but yeah, I mean, it's important to stay focused nevertheless.

Vit Muller: 00:52:43

Hmm.

Tom Adam: 00:52:43

mm.

Vit Muller: 00:52:44

yeah, you're not an agency, you're not a sapr, but you

Vit Muller: 00:52:48

providing solution in your market and you're using high level for it.

Vit Muller: 00:52:53

What would be your advice to somebody else, another business owner that is,

Vit Muller: 00:52:58

you know, trying to implement high level and or looking to start using high level?

Vit Muller: 00:53:03

What would be your recommendation?

Vit Muller: 00:53:04

Where should they start?

Tom Adam: 00:53:06

Oh, look, I, I would say that don't, don't make the mistake

Tom Adam: 00:53:09

that I made, and actually go straight for the $97 plan and do it yourself.

Tom Adam: 00:53:14

Like that was a nightmare.

Tom Adam: 00:53:16

Like having to set it up myself, like, get some help.

Tom Adam: 00:53:19

the only reason is 'cause they, I didn't even know that sa like

Tom Adam: 00:53:21

these SaaS agencies, I don't think they even really existed.

Tom Adam: 00:53:24

Like, you know, five years ago, four years ago.

Tom Adam: 00:53:26

Like this was the thing I found out about go high level because I got access to

Tom Adam: 00:53:30

it because a, It was a marketing agency.

Tom Adam: 00:53:34

They used Subaccounts for all of their clients to manage all of

Tom Adam: 00:53:37

their, their advertising for them.

Tom Adam: 00:53:39

And I got

Vit Muller: 00:53:40

but they didn't provide the access to those, they, they do as

Tom Adam: 00:53:43

well, they gave me access to it, but, but they gave,

Tom Adam: 00:53:45

it was just contacts in there.

Tom Adam: 00:53:47

They didn't even, so I, I literally learnt go high level because someone

Tom Adam: 00:53:52

else gave me access to it for free.

Tom Adam: 00:53:54

And, and then I was like, what is this?

Tom Adam: 00:53:56

And then I built my own and then said, gimme my data.

Tom Adam: 00:53:59

And so I built a lot of the stuff myself.

Tom Adam: 00:54:02

So I built all of my, my op, my pathways and my automations

Tom Adam: 00:54:07

around my trial management.

Tom Adam: 00:54:08

I built that myself.

Tom Adam: 00:54:10

So, but if you are gonna go into it yourself is really spend the time

Tom Adam: 00:54:14

mapping out the experiences that you want your customers to go through.

Vit Muller: 00:54:19

yeah.

Tom Adam: 00:54:19

And as I go, I'll circle back.

Tom Adam: 00:54:20

So I wanted people to say se yes.

Tom Adam: 00:54:21

Seven times.

Tom Adam: 00:54:22

So for me, the three week pay trial is what we do.

Tom Adam: 00:54:26

So for me the yes is do they want to come in and check out the club?

Tom Adam: 00:54:30

Give it a go.

Tom Adam: 00:54:30

Yes.

Tom Adam: 00:54:31

They came in.

Tom Adam: 00:54:32

Yes.

Tom Adam: 00:54:33

Do you wanna purchase a trial?

Tom Adam: 00:54:34

Yes.

Tom Adam: 00:54:35

Did you enjoy your first class?

Tom Adam: 00:54:36

Yes.

Tom Adam: 00:54:37

You're halfway through.

Tom Adam: 00:54:38

Are you enjoying it?

Tom Adam: 00:54:39

Yes.

Tom Adam: 00:54:40

Right.

Tom Adam: 00:54:40

Are you liking everything that's going?

Tom Adam: 00:54:42

Would you like me to send you a membership offer?

Tom Adam: 00:54:44

Yes.

Tom Adam: 00:54:45

All right.

Tom Adam: 00:54:45

Here's the membership offer.

Tom Adam: 00:54:47

Do you wanna sign up as a member?

Tom Adam: 00:54:48

Yes.

Tom Adam: 00:54:49

So that's, that's what I went through the seven yeses.

Tom Adam: 00:54:52

So it's like how do I map out the experience for them?

Tom Adam: 00:54:55

Because before that I was literally going here, come and try a class.

Tom Adam: 00:54:58

Would you like a membership?

Tom Adam: 00:54:59

And I'm asking them for a lot of money.

Tom Adam: 00:55:01

Now I'm going, here's a, here's a, I'm asking you to do something.

Tom Adam: 00:55:05

I'm asking you to make a small payment.

Tom Adam: 00:55:07

I'm asking you to commit for a couple of weeks, and now I'm

Tom Adam: 00:55:09

asking you for a bigger payment.

Tom Adam: 00:55:10

And they get to know, like trust.

Tom Adam: 00:55:12

So map out your experience journey, going back to the using that design thinking.

Tom Adam: 00:55:17

What is the experience that you want your customers to go through your funnel?

Tom Adam: 00:55:21

All right?

Tom Adam: 00:55:21

To use the vernacular in the opportunities, map it out,

Tom Adam: 00:55:24

and then figure out what.

Tom Adam: 00:55:25

Processes you want around that?

Tom Adam: 00:55:27

What do you want automated and what do you want manually done?

Tom Adam: 00:55:30

Don't automate everything.

Tom Adam: 00:55:32

Don't automate everything.

Tom Adam: 00:55:34

I automate my staff being reminded to call my customers.

Tom Adam: 00:55:38

Don't automate the call, don't go through the track of doing everything automated.

Tom Adam: 00:55:42

You can automate the crap out of lots of it, but people

Tom Adam: 00:55:45

still like people to call them.

Tom Adam: 00:55:48

People still like human touch.

Tom Adam: 00:55:49

So automate the reminder for you to reach out to your customer, even if it's

Tom Adam: 00:55:53

leaving a voicemail saying, Hey Viet, you know, how's Luca going with his class?

Tom Adam: 00:55:59

Right?

Tom Adam: 00:56:00

Like that.

Tom Adam: 00:56:01

The people love that stuff because they go, oh, they genuinely reached out.

Tom Adam: 00:56:05

Like, you know, you may not speak to them, but they're gonna remember that you did.

Tom Adam: 00:56:08

Or I know most of 'em, the parents who work with me, it doesn't matter.

Tom Adam: 00:56:11

They don't read email, they don't read SMS, they don't listen to

Tom Adam: 00:56:13

voicemail and they don't even read the fo the fake tattoo that you

Tom Adam: 00:56:16

put on their child's forehead about that you closed for a long weekend.

Tom Adam: 00:56:19

Right?

Vit Muller: 00:56:19

and I dare say that as you know, as, as the AI is going,

Vit Muller: 00:56:25

AI is gonna be adopted more and more globally in the business world and

Vit Muller: 00:56:29

consumers for, you know, everywhere.

Vit Muller: 00:56:32

I dare said that I think.

Vit Muller: 00:56:34

The value of personal connection is just gonna rise up because people

Vit Muller: 00:56:37

will start to get overwhelmed if it's way too much digital, way too

Vit Muller: 00:56:41

much, synthetic, non-real, that they will value this stuff even more.

Vit Muller: 00:56:46

Right.

Tom Adam: 00:56:47

that phone call, that phone call work might be worth, just think about the

Tom Adam: 00:56:51

lifetime value of any particular customer.

Tom Adam: 00:56:53

So my lifetime value for a particular customer is kids is 1500 bucks, adults

Tom Adam: 00:56:57

is about three and a half grand.

Tom Adam: 00:56:59

That phone call could be potentially be worth three and a half thousand

Tom Adam: 00:57:02

dollars, and at no point on that call am I asking for money.

Vit Muller: 00:57:06

yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:57:07

You're just moving them to the next step.

Vit Muller: 00:57:09

To the next.

Vit Muller: 00:57:09

Yes.

Vit Muller: 00:57:10

And out of anything that we talked about today, I think what you just said

Vit Muller: 00:57:15

there, the example of how you structured in your specific example of your gym,

Vit Muller: 00:57:19

those yeses, what are those questions?

Vit Muller: 00:57:21

At what point you asked those?

Vit Muller: 00:57:23

That's, you know, just take note on that one.

Vit Muller: 00:57:26

You can forget about everything else we talked about today, but that one thing.

Vit Muller: 00:57:30

It's applicable to any industry, any business, any use case.

Vit Muller: 00:57:34

And if you're gonna approach that and you go as a sales entrepreneur, as an

Vit Muller: 00:57:37

agency, you go to any small business and you, you, you, you do that scope, you do

Vit Muller: 00:57:41

the discovery, you do the double diamond.

Vit Muller: 00:57:43

You come up with this, this process, man, you're winning.

Vit Muller: 00:57:47

Everybody's gonna be winning

Tom Adam: 00:57:48

Yeah, a hundred

Vit Muller: 00:57:49

client.

Vit Muller: 00:57:49

You'll be winning your, they'll be winning.

Vit Muller: 00:57:52

you snapshot it out.

Vit Muller: 00:57:53

Now you've got scale.

Vit Muller: 00:57:55

It's, yeah, it's great.

Tom Adam: 00:57:58

absolutely.

Tom Adam: 00:57:59

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:57:59

Right.

Vit Muller: 00:57:59

We've covered everything.

Vit Muller: 00:58:01

I do have this one segment that, you may have heard about me saying about it.

Vit Muller: 00:58:06

It's called The Beef, where we discuss constructive feedback, discussed

Vit Muller: 00:58:10

constructive feedback, on high level, you know, what we find that not quite

Vit Muller: 00:58:14

working the way we like and, you know, ultimately mention, you know, an, an

Vit Muller: 00:58:18

idea that we've up, you know, submitted on the ideas board and ultimately shared

Vit Muller: 00:58:22

with you guys listening so that if you agree with it, you can click a link in

Vit Muller: 00:58:26

the show notes and give it an output.

Vit Muller: 00:58:28

are there any challenges or frustrations you're currently facing, a higher level

Vit Muller: 00:58:32

that, that you'd like to talk about?

Tom Adam: 00:58:34

Ah, mate, I, I think one, number one would be load time issues.

Tom Adam: 00:58:37

Like sometimes it can be an absolute dog and I've got a hundred megabits a second

Tom Adam: 00:58:43

here at my office, and it can load up.

Tom Adam: 00:58:45

I think, overall I would love if Facebook's not gonna do it, if, Go high

Tom Adam: 00:58:51

level could help us get rid of some of that spam crap without having to build

Tom Adam: 00:58:55

amazing automations and things like that.

Tom Adam: 00:58:57

We, as a business owner, I am getting Absolutely.

Tom Adam: 00:59:00

You run ads on Facebook.

Tom Adam: 00:59:01

I'm getting between 20 and 30 fake, you know, your account has been closed.

Tom Adam: 00:59:09

reach outs from these spam accounts, like 20 to 30 a week.

Vit Muller: 00:59:12

Yeah, it's a real problem.

Vit Muller: 00:59:13

I, I get more of them from Instagram, to be honest, and Facebook.

Vit Muller: 00:59:16

But it in both.

Tom Adam: 00:59:17

I don't see where they come from.

Tom Adam: 00:59:18

I just go spam tag and they disappear.

Tom Adam: 00:59:21

but it's, it's like that, that thing there is like to really filter out.

Tom Adam: 00:59:26

I think, an acknowledgement.

Tom Adam: 00:59:27

I think the other thing would be an acknowledgement.

Tom Adam: 00:59:29

In Australia, we don't have a two P, so stop trying to force

Tom Adam: 00:59:33

feed that crap down my throat.

Tom Adam: 00:59:35

it doesn't impact us.

Tom Adam: 00:59:37

in Australia.

Tom Adam: 00:59:38

There's no legal obligation

Vit Muller: 00:59:39

Do you find it, do you find it that way?

Vit Muller: 00:59:40

I'm not finding any experience.

Vit Muller: 00:59:41

I mean, I.

Tom Adam: 00:59:42

oh God, uh uh, but also finally, stop pushing new features on us.

Tom Adam: 00:59:47

Without going through your SaaS guys first, like that menus like ai,

Tom Adam: 00:59:52

blah, blah, blah, like just pushing it out to a sub account without it

Tom Adam: 00:59:55

being approved at the SaaS level.

Tom Adam: 00:59:57

Whoa.

Tom Adam: 00:59:58

See, as a cus as a, as a, as a, as a customer, I find that stuff really

Tom Adam: 01:00:04

like, really encroaching because I also go, I know that my SAS guy hasn't

Tom Adam: 01:00:08

done it, but also my clients are using the program and I don't want

Tom Adam: 01:00:12

them looking at that yet because some of them aren't ready for that yet.

Tom Adam: 01:00:15

You know, whether your clients are ready for that yet.

Vit Muller: 01:00:17

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:00:18

That's, you're talking about that change, that that was, that just

Vit Muller: 01:00:20

happened last week where the AI and, AI agents, they were buried in the settings

Vit Muller: 01:00:24

and now they're in the main menu.

Vit Muller: 01:00:26

yeah, which is

Tom Adam: 01:00:27

but they do that all the time.

Tom Adam: 01:00:28

There's ads for things all the time in sub-accounts that have not been approved

Tom Adam: 01:00:31

at the, at the, at the top level.

Tom Adam: 01:00:34

I don't think that's a really good practice.

Tom Adam: 01:00:36

I think there's actually gonna, they're burning, burning people like yourself.

Vit Muller: 01:00:40

Well, I think, I mean, in their defense, I would say, 'cause you,

Vit Muller: 01:00:43

you, you're probably maybe not looking at the ideas board as much as I do.

Vit Muller: 01:00:46

So they do have a roadmap.

Vit Muller: 01:00:47

So they, they, they do have a roadmap, but you have to live in it.

Vit Muller: 01:00:50

Right?

Vit Muller: 01:00:51

So if you're not living in that space, you wouldn't know

Tom Adam: 01:00:52

But as a

Vit Muller: 01:00:53

going to be

Tom Adam: 01:00:54

just, it's noise.

Vit Muller: 01:00:55

yeah,

Tom Adam: 01:00:56

I want, I want my SaaS guy to educate me on that stuff.

Tom Adam: 01:01:02

I'm not a customer of, of go high level as far as I'm concerned.

Tom Adam: 01:01:06

I'm a I'm your customer.

Vit Muller: 01:01:07

yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:01:08

Of course.

Tom Adam: 01:01:08

Yeah.

Tom Adam: 01:01:09

I use go high level as a software program, but I'm not their customer.

Tom Adam: 01:01:13

I'm your customer.

Tom Adam: 01:01:14

Don't push stuff over my, your agent.

Tom Adam: 01:01:18

My agent.

Tom Adam: 01:01:19

Don't push it over the top at me.

Vit Muller: 01:01:21

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:01:21

Because I wasn't ready for that one.

Vit Muller: 01:01:22

Yeah,

Tom Adam: 01:01:23

No, but that, but I wasn't ready for that and my clients were,

Tom Adam: 01:01:25

I've had to literally in three calls this week, go, don't touch that.

Vit Muller: 01:01:29

Yeah.

Tom Adam: 01:01:30

touch that.

Tom Adam: 01:01:31

Why?

Tom Adam: 01:01:31

Because it's 'cause just don't,

Vit Muller: 01:01:33

We have to, yeah, we have to figure out how we onboard you on that.

Vit Muller: 01:01:36

Yeah, no, that's a good point.

Vit Muller: 01:01:37

That's a fair point.

Vit Muller: 01:01:38

No, I agree.

Vit Muller: 01:01:38

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:01:39

guys, if you, if you have any, any, any suggestions like that, and obviously,

Vit Muller: 01:01:43

we'll, we'll put a by the way, we'll put, we'll put a link in the show

Vit Muller: 01:01:45

notes on this particular thing.

Vit Muller: 01:01:46

We'll make sure that's submitted on the ideas, but, as a feedback.

Vit Muller: 01:01:49

So if you guys agree, Especially those you running SaaS, I'm,

Vit Muller: 01:01:52

I'm sure you might agree.

Vit Muller: 01:01:53

then click a link in the show notes for this particular episode

Vit Muller: 01:01:56

where you can give it an up output.

Vit Muller: 01:01:57

But also, you know, this show is kind of democratic, you know, like I'm, I'm

Vit Muller: 01:02:01

open, open to you guys, to participate on how this show gets curated to a point.

Vit Muller: 01:02:06

So if you have a beef, if you have, and it's not to shed on high level,

Vit Muller: 01:02:11

it's about, you know, it's, it's high level is awesome platform.

Vit Muller: 01:02:14

It's, but it's a technological po it's a software.

Vit Muller: 01:02:17

Like any software, it's, it's, you know, it's got, it's, it's

Vit Muller: 01:02:19

got it's growing pains, right?

Vit Muller: 01:02:21

It's just the nature of it.

Vit Muller: 01:02:22

but long story short, if you do have a suggestion, if you've got something

Vit Muller: 01:02:25

that you've put on the a DS board and you do want to get more people to

Vit Muller: 01:02:29

hear about it, and not just wait for it to get discovered naturally, which

Vit Muller: 01:02:33

might take ages, you know, the way high level works, they've got seven

Vit Muller: 01:02:36

or more, more than that actually.

Vit Muller: 01:02:38

hundreds of developers and the way they decide on what they're gonna prioritize

Vit Muller: 01:02:42

as far as the roadmap goes is based on.

Vit Muller: 01:02:45

Uploads.

Vit Muller: 01:02:46

So yeah, long story short, submit your upload head over

Vit Muller: 01:02:49

to har experience.com/debe.

Vit Muller: 01:02:53

There's a s small little form you submit your, you submit your upload and

Vit Muller: 01:02:57

I'll feature it in the next episode.

Vit Muller: 01:02:59

and with that, Tom, thank you mate.

Vit Muller: 01:03:02

This has been really, really good.

Vit Muller: 01:03:03

Oh, actually, no, I've got one more.

Vit Muller: 01:03:05

I like to, I like

Tom Adam: 01:03:06

surprise question.

Vit Muller: 01:03:08

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:03:08

The tricky question mate.

Vit Muller: 01:03:09

Tricky question.

Vit Muller: 01:03:11

tell me something that's true that almost nobody agrees with you on.

Tom Adam: 01:03:15

Something that's true that almost nobody agrees with me on.

Tom Adam: 01:03:20

Oh, I, I could get really political here.

Tom Adam: 01:03:23

no.

Tom Adam: 01:03:23

I, I've got.

Vit Muller: 01:03:24

Maybe, maybe leave that aside.

Tom Adam: 01:03:25

I've got lots of, I've got lots of, of of things.

Tom Adam: 01:03:28

Something that's true that nobody believes me on.

Tom Adam: 01:03:31

Um, yeah, I could, I, I, I see.

Tom Adam: 01:03:34

I'm really deep in the business community here, and I, I genuinely

Tom Adam: 01:03:39

believe that, I genuinely believe that small businesses need a better go.

Tom Adam: 01:03:46

and politicians don't believe me.

Tom Adam: 01:03:49

They think, oh, small businesses are doing great.

Tom Adam: 01:03:51

Like they're really, they're really, they just, you know, they rip everybody off

Tom Adam: 01:03:55

and they're making huge profits, so I have

Vit Muller: 01:03:57

They're living their own bubble.

Vit Muller: 01:03:58

Yeah.

Tom Adam: 01:03:59

Yeah, absolutely.

Tom Adam: 01:03:59

But, but I have to say to remind people all the time, profit

Tom Adam: 01:04:02

equals my wage profit for a small business profit equals my wage.

Tom Adam: 01:04:08

And so I often have to remind them that I'm an agent of the tax office, so I

Tom Adam: 01:04:13

collect more tax revenue from the a, from the tax office than I often get paid.

Tom Adam: 01:04:17

And so, you know, that that's the thing.

Tom Adam: 01:04:19

So I, I would say that, you know, the one thing that, that a lot of people don't

Tom Adam: 01:04:23

understand, that small business owners aren't rolling in cash all the time.

Tom Adam: 01:04:27

We don't go, most of us don't go into business to be insanely wealthy.

Tom Adam: 01:04:31

We like to get money, we like to pay for things, but we go into business

Tom Adam: 01:04:36

because we're really, really passionate about, passionate about whatever we do.

Tom Adam: 01:04:40

and sure as, shit, if I did, if I did it for the money, I would've

Tom Adam: 01:04:43

closed this place long ago.

Tom Adam: 01:04:46

Okay.

Tom Adam: 01:04:46

So I suppose there's other things I could get right into political health

Tom Adam: 01:04:50

beliefs and business stuff, but I would think, I would think that was

Tom Adam: 01:04:53

the one thing is like, don't, if you are dealing with a local business

Tom Adam: 01:04:56

and you are, and you want something, don't keep asking for a discount.

Tom Adam: 01:05:00

The price that they put on something is often the best price they can offer you.

Tom Adam: 01:05:04

And you, you asking for a discount on top of something is.

Tom Adam: 01:05:08

Is it Sometimes it's difficult.

Tom Adam: 01:05:10

It's a difficult conversation.

Tom Adam: 01:05:12

And I'm lucky 'cause I'm, I'm a bit forthright, so I have customers go

Tom Adam: 01:05:15

and they go, oh, I give 'em a 10% off.

Tom Adam: 01:05:16

And they go, oh, can I have more of a discount?

Tom Adam: 01:05:18

And I go, I wish I could get a discount on my rent.

Tom Adam: 01:05:20

My rent's 10 grand a month.

Tom Adam: 01:05:21

And they're like, oh.

Tom Adam: 01:05:22

And I'm like, yeah, and it costs me 150 bucks an hour just

Tom Adam: 01:05:24

to turn the lights on in here.

Tom Adam: 01:05:25

And they're like, oh.

Tom Adam: 01:05:27

And I'm like, so we need to have, you know, 15 customers in here

Tom Adam: 01:05:30

paying to pay for each class.

Tom Adam: 01:05:31

And I'm like, oh.

Tom Adam: 01:05:32

And I'm like, that doesn't include this.

Tom Adam: 01:05:34

And they're like, oh.

Tom Adam: 01:05:34

So I'm like, cool.

Tom Adam: 01:05:35

So are you happy with the 10% that I've given you?

Tom Adam: 01:05:38

Yes, I am.

Tom Adam: 01:05:38

So, you know, like it's, it's the whole thing.

Tom Adam: 01:05:41

So, yeah, I think businesses, business owners need to be appreciated a

Tom Adam: 01:05:44

little bit more by general customers.

Tom Adam: 01:05:45

So, hey guys, SAPR knows you're in business too.

Tom Adam: 01:05:48

you know, like your overheads might not be as high.

Tom Adam: 01:05:50

So just remember the local store, you, they've got rent, electricity, gas,

Tom Adam: 01:05:54

wage costs, you know, like insurance.

Tom Adam: 01:05:56

I was on the news about insurance.

Tom Adam: 01:05:58

I'm gonna inquiry next week about it, the week after next rather.

Tom Adam: 01:06:01

You know, like it's, you know, 1% of my $300,000 a year wage

Tom Adam: 01:06:05

cost is just insurance, so,

Vit Muller: 01:06:08

Look, overall running a business is a tough kick.

Vit Muller: 01:06:10

I spoke to a mate of mine yesterday.

Vit Muller: 01:06:12

He runs an IT business and two of his, two of his, tech people,

Vit Muller: 01:06:16

two of his staff members dropped one week apart from each other.

Vit Muller: 01:06:21

Massive hole in the business, couldn't replace it.

Vit Muller: 01:06:23

And he's now contemplating to actually shut the whole business down.

Tom Adam: 01:06:27

hmm,

Vit Muller: 01:06:28

I mean, there's ups and downs in small business.

Vit Muller: 01:06:29

It's tough.

Vit Muller: 01:06:30

It's

Tom Adam: 01:06:30

hmm.

Tom Adam: 01:06:31

A

Vit Muller: 01:06:32

So, yeah, I agree.

Vit Muller: 01:06:33

Yeah, we need a bit more appreciation from the government, sometimes, in general.

Vit Muller: 01:06:36

anyway.

Vit Muller: 01:06:37

mate, thank you so much for jumping on.

Vit Muller: 01:06:38

Is there anything that you want, I, I forgot to ask you that actually at

Vit Muller: 01:06:41

the beginning we started recording.

Vit Muller: 01:06:42

Is there anything that you had in mind to, that you wanted to pitch?

Tom Adam: 01:06:47

Yeah.

Tom Adam: 01:06:47

I think if you are, if you've got a, if you've got a, clients that you're

Tom Adam: 01:06:51

working with that are movement clients that are, you know, yoga, martial

Tom Adam: 01:06:55

arts, fitness, things like that.

Tom Adam: 01:06:57

to reach out and have a chat with me.

Tom Adam: 01:06:58

'cause I, I have the Club Mastery Consortium where I actually coach,

Tom Adam: 01:07:02

business owners, but I've got no problem with going to another, agency

Tom Adam: 01:07:06

and saying, okay, like, you know, this is, this is the perspective of how

Tom Adam: 01:07:10

they're dealing with things or even even presenting on ways to do things.

Tom Adam: 01:07:14

because none of what we do really is, is, is new.

Tom Adam: 01:07:19

We're not reinventing the wheel.

Tom Adam: 01:07:21

What we're doing is all we do is we frame things in a way

Tom Adam: 01:07:23

that everybody can understand.

Tom Adam: 01:07:25

but yeah, look, I would say big plug to, to vid.

Tom Adam: 01:07:27

I you've put in more hours than you, than than a lot of people I

Tom Adam: 01:07:31

know into growing your business.

Tom Adam: 01:07:32

So I commend you on that, mate, and I really appreciate

Tom Adam: 01:07:35

the opportunity to come here

Vit Muller: 01:07:36

I appreciate that.

Vit Muller: 01:07:37

Thank you mate.

Vit Muller: 01:07:38

And with that, thank you for being on mate.

Vit Muller: 01:07:41

Thank you guys for listening to today's episode on high level experience.

Vit Muller: 01:07:45

If you've enjoyed today's episode, then please share it with fellow agency

Vit Muller: 01:07:48

mates and other high levelers that you think would also benefit from listening.

Vit Muller: 01:07:51

For show notes, links and extra tips to help you grow your agency

Vit Muller: 01:07:54

or your SaaS with high level, please go to high level experience.com.

Vit Muller: 01:07:58

Thank you and have a great rest of your day, everybody.