Vit Muller: 00:00:00

marketing to me is it should be an ongoing thing.

Chris Dillon: 00:00:02

I couldn't agree more.

Vit Muller: 00:00:03

I'm sure there's more to it.

Vit Muller: 00:00:04

There's a better framework, do you wanna break it down a little bit?

Chris Dillon: 00:00:07

My favorite sentence, which is weird, so

Chris Dillon: 00:00:09

please bear with me for a second.

Chris Dillon: 00:00:11

But the sentence is: I didn't tell you to kill him

Vit Muller: 00:00:13

Is there any particular niches that you find this works really well?

Chris Dillon: 00:00:17

I don't look industry specific because I'm very much a believer

Chris Dillon: 00:00:20

that you're not selling to an industry, you're still selling just to one person.

Chris Dillon: 00:00:23

WhatsApp all the time, it's a more personal platform, so it's

Chris Dillon: 00:00:26

more customer service orientated.

Vit Muller: 00:00:28

it's the worst question you can hear from somebody when

Vit Muller: 00:00:30

you go to a networking event.

Vit Muller: 00:00:31

You don't even know them, and then they start with that question.

Chris Dillon: 00:00:34

it's just laced with, "I wanna try and sell to you."

Chris Dillon: 00:00:36

and we're smart, like human beings are smart, they can sense that.

Vit Muller: 00:00:38

That's interesting.

Vit Muller: 00:00:40

See, I would've thought something like CloseBot would be something

Chris Dillon: 00:00:43

do it.

Chris Dillon: 00:00:43

Yeah, don't get me wrong, like AI could do bits and pieces of this.

Chris Dillon: 00:00:46

also think there is a point at which what I call the Netflix problem,

Vit Muller: 00:00:49

know WhatsApp or have integrated or have set up

Vit Muller: 00:00:52

WhatsApp in their GHL properly.

Vit Muller: 00:00:54

There is some restrictions, right?

Chris Dillon: 00:00:56

Yeah, 100%.

Chris Dillon: 00:00:57

It-- you framed it perfectly as well.

Chris Dillon: 00:00:58

My talk at Level Up is called WhatsApp Isn't SMS, and how to

Chris Dillon: 00:01:02

use and harness it properly.

Vit Muller: 00:01:07

Hello, everybody.

Vit Muller: 00:01:08

Welcome to another episode on the HighLevel Experience Podcast.

Vit Muller: 00:01:11

Our guest today is a WhatsApp automation expert, bestselling

Vit Muller: 00:01:14

author, and a fellow GHL agency owner who is obsessed with conversations.

Vit Muller: 00:01:18

The kind that feel human, move fast, and turn into bookings, conversions,

Vit Muller: 00:01:22

and referrals for him and his clients.

Vit Muller: 00:01:25

He's been speaking all over the world about it.

Vit Muller: 00:01:27

His whole play is simple but deadly.

Vit Muller: 00:01:29

Design the customer journey, then let WhatsApp do the heavy lifting

Vit Muller: 00:01:33

so your team can do the human stuff.

Vit Muller: 00:01:36

Today, we're digging into the exact workflow that boosted sales call show up

Vit Muller: 00:01:40

rates using WhatsApp inside HighLevel.

Vit Muller: 00:01:42

What messages land, where to automate versus hand off, and how

Vit Muller: 00:01:47

other GHL agencies can do the same.

Vit Muller: 00:01:49

Please welcome to the show, Chris Dillon

Chris Dillon: 00:01:57

Thank you very much for having me, my friend.

Chris Dillon: 00:01:59

Looking forward to it

Vit Muller: 00:02:00

Yeah, great to have you on, Chris.

Vit Muller: 00:02:02

great to have you on, mate.

Vit Muller: 00:02:03

I've seen your name around.

Vit Muller: 00:02:04

I've been in the HighLevel community for the last six years.

Vit Muller: 00:02:06

I know your big thing is WhatsApp.

Vit Muller: 00:02:09

I am very interested to know, the details of it.

Vit Muller: 00:02:12

But before we dive into all the technicalities, and I'm sure that a

Vit Muller: 00:02:14

lot of listeners are excited to know about it as well, 'cause WhatsApp is

Vit Muller: 00:02:18

a big thing, especially in certain countries like Spain and South America.

Vit Muller: 00:02:21

Anyway, I just wanted to… Bit of a backstory for people who don't know you.

Vit Muller: 00:02:25

Who is Chris?

Vit Muller: 00:02:25

How did you, I dunno, how did you get into this whole space

Vit Muller: 00:02:28

of, HighLevel and agency work?

Vit Muller: 00:02:30

What's your backstory?

Chris Dillon: 00:02:32

The, so I've been in sales and marketing for about, say, 15 to 20

Chris Dillon: 00:02:35

years now, and started with organic social media, went to then paid social media.

Chris Dillon: 00:02:41

was doing a few bits and pieces freelance, worked in-house for a

Chris Dillon: 00:02:44

little bit, and then when COVID hit, set up my own paid ads agency.

Chris Dillon: 00:02:49

And what I realized very quickly is generating leads isn't

Chris Dillon: 00:02:53

actually that challenging.

Chris Dillon: 00:02:54

That's really, like a lot of marketers will scream at me for that sentence,

Chris Dillon: 00:02:57

but generating leads, you could go out and network, you could speak,

Chris Dillon: 00:03:00

you could throw budget at ads.

Chris Dillon: 00:03:03

Generating the leads isn't the tough bit, generating the sales is.

Chris Dillon: 00:03:06

And we noticed that at the time, the amount of businesses that had the

Chris Dillon: 00:03:11

next step not done blew my mind a little bit, where people just hadn't

Chris Dillon: 00:03:16

thought about what happens next.

Chris Dillon: 00:03:18

And I started going down a bit of a rabbit hole going, what is the experience?

Chris Dillon: 00:03:22

What do peop- what happens when people fill out the form, which is what most

Chris Dillon: 00:03:25

marketers, their job finishes at.

Vit Muller: 00:03:28

Mm-hmm

Chris Dillon: 00:03:29

and I looked at, okay, I could put them through an

Chris Dillon: 00:03:31

email sequence, but I know if I WhatsApp them, they're gonna pick up.

Chris Dillon: 00:03:34

So I stumbled across about four or five years ago, WhatsApp's

Chris Dillon: 00:03:38

API and what it can do and the automation, and dove straight in.

Chris Dillon: 00:03:43

Realized after a while that I wanted to focus on just helping

Chris Dillon: 00:03:47

businesses with that last bit.

Chris Dillon: 00:03:49

So, and I think it's such an underspoken about part of business, is you've

Chris Dillon: 00:03:55

got your marketing on the one hand, you've got sales on the other hand,

Chris Dillon: 00:03:58

and ultimately the thing that bridges that gap is the customer's experience.

Chris Dillon: 00:04:04

And I just don't see a huge amount of people speaking about it.

Chris Dillon: 00:04:06

I see nobody speaking about it about WhatsApp.

Chris Dillon: 00:04:09

And yet I very rarely, in those countries that you mentioned where WhatsApp is

Chris Dillon: 00:04:13

like the primary communication platform, when I say to people, "Oh, WhatsApp is

Chris Dillon: 00:04:18

more effective," none of them go anything other than, "Yeah, no, of course it is."

Chris Dillon: 00:04:21

But none of them know what you can actually do with it.

Chris Dillon: 00:04:24

sort of realized there was a bit of a niche in terms of the offering

Chris Dillon: 00:04:26

and, dived headfirst into that.

Chris Dillon: 00:04:28

And yeah, that's led to, as you said, speaking around the world this year

Chris Dillon: 00:04:32

and inevitably the same next year, and I'm literally, as we record this,

Chris Dillon: 00:04:36

on a flight in about nine days to, according to my app that tracks my

Chris Dillon: 00:04:40

flights, potentially complete my second trip around the Earth this year.

Vit Muller: 00:04:44

Wow.

Vit Muller: 00:04:45

Nice.

Vit Muller: 00:04:46

Okay, so you brought a really good point with customer journey.

Vit Muller: 00:04:49

I think that's-- There is, there's something that I started to look at,

Vit Muller: 00:04:54

I don't know, maybe eight years ago when I had my fitness business back

Vit Muller: 00:04:57

then, and I was like approaching my own marketing for my business.

Vit Muller: 00:05:01

Maybe it was a book, I read it somewhere, but it's like marketing

Vit Muller: 00:05:04

isn't just something that you should look at as a way to, target market

Vit Muller: 00:05:10

and generate interest, generate leads.

Vit Muller: 00:05:12

But marketing should be across every step of the way.

Vit Muller: 00:05:15

It's like even once they become customer, you should still market to them.

Vit Muller: 00:05:18

You should still market the experience is better, market,

Vit Muller: 00:05:22

the value that you provide.

Vit Muller: 00:05:24

Like from an agency perspective, some clients don't realize the value

Vit Muller: 00:05:27

if you don't provide reporting on results and things like that, right?

Vit Muller: 00:05:31

So I think marketing to me is it should be an ongoing thing.

Vit Muller: 00:05:34

It should just never be like a part of the, just one part

Vit Muller: 00:05:38

of the, the journey, right?

Vit Muller: 00:05:40

what would you say,

Chris Dillon: 00:05:41

I couldn't agree more.

Chris Dillon: 00:05:42

I just think the purpose of the book that I wrote was I wanted businesses

Chris Dillon: 00:05:46

to realize that as a business owner, you know the answers to questions

Chris Dillon: 00:05:51

that your customers don't know.

Chris Dillon: 00:05:53

You know what the process is, so you know what the next step is.

Chris Dillon: 00:05:56

You know what they have to do.

Chris Dillon: 00:05:57

and ultimately, you know the benefit they'll get from working with you, but

Chris Dillon: 00:06:03

they don't yet, specifically on agency owners and the solutions that you provide.

Chris Dillon: 00:06:08

The problem is when you know all of that, and that's your mindset going

Chris Dillon: 00:06:11

into everything, what you lay out as a customer experience is based around

Chris Dillon: 00:06:15

your approach, not somebody who doesn't care about you and goes through it.

Chris Dillon: 00:06:20

And, one of the biggest eye-openers for me was, starting to do local

Chris Dillon: 00:06:25

business exhibitions, so where you've got a stand and you're there for

Chris Dillon: 00:06:28

the whole day and you're speaking to people that come over to the stand.

Chris Dillon: 00:06:31

We do quite a few of those, and we also train businesses on how to do it now.

Chris Dillon: 00:06:37

'Cause I was stood at this business show about five years ago, and

Chris Dillon: 00:06:40

I looked round and I was like, there's about 40 stands there.

Chris Dillon: 00:06:44

And I'm looking round and half of the people are sat down behind

Chris Dillon: 00:06:46

the stand, and most people aren't trying to grab people's attention.

Chris Dillon: 00:06:51

And the vast majority of people around me who were having good conversations

Chris Dillon: 00:06:56

were going, "Thank you so much. Here's our flyer. If you just go on the

Chris Dillon: 00:06:59

website and when you wanna sign up."

Chris Dillon: 00:07:00

And then they go and put that flyer into a tote bag that they got from another stand.

Chris Dillon: 00:07:05

And I'm like: In what world has anybody ever gone home, emptied their

Chris Dillon: 00:07:09

bag, laid out all of the business cards that are there and gone, these

Chris Dillon: 00:07:13

people I'm gonna give money to"?

Chris Dillon: 00:07:15

Just, it just, it doesn't happen.

Chris Dillon: 00:07:18

know at a conference, whether it's me speaking, whether it is me,

Chris Dillon: 00:07:22

at an exhibition, whether it's tr- whatever it is, you don't

Chris Dillon: 00:07:25

generally make money on that day.

Chris Dillon: 00:07:27

You can do, but that's not the, that's not the norm.

Chris Dillon: 00:07:30

You usually make money from the follow-up afterwards.

Chris Dillon: 00:07:33

And I'm looking around going, "Am I the only one that knows this?" Because nobody

Chris Dillon: 00:07:36

around me is taking the information of the person in front of them and it

Chris Dillon: 00:07:41

just made me realize that there are so many examples of we understand what the

Chris Dillon: 00:07:45

customer experience should look like.

Chris Dillon: 00:07:47

I do this exercise with people all the time, which is think

Chris Dillon: 00:07:51

about your favorite restaurant.

Chris Dillon: 00:07:53

Think about everything about it.

Chris Dillon: 00:07:54

If you could go there tonight, where would it be?

Chris Dillon: 00:07:57

All of the reasons why it is your favorite restaurant.

Chris Dillon: 00:08:00

And then I ask them to pause and I say, "Now think of the place that you've

Chris Dillon: 00:08:03

had the best food you've ever had."

Chris Dillon: 00:08:05

And the majority, not everyone, but the majority of people will respond to me and

Chris Dillon: 00:08:08

say that the two places are different.

Chris Dillon: 00:08:11

And yet on paper, a restaurant is there to provide good food.

Chris Dillon: 00:08:15

So we know that the experience is what makes something like that a lot better.

Chris Dillon: 00:08:20

we know that.

Chris Dillon: 00:08:20

What's also really funny is when you ask the people where was the best food,

Chris Dillon: 00:08:24

most of them will say they've only ever been there once, and restaurants

Chris Dillon: 00:08:27

don't thrive on you only going there once, unless they're in tourist traps.

Chris Dillon: 00:08:31

So, we know as people and business owners when we're physically in

Chris Dillon: 00:08:35

somewhere that the experience matters.

Chris Dillon: 00:08:38

It's why business class is different to economy class.

Chris Dillon: 00:08:40

It's why a five-star hotel is different to a Travelodge.

Chris Dillon: 00:08:43

Like none of that's bad or good, it's just we know and we

Chris Dillon: 00:08:45

pay for the extra experience.

Chris Dillon: 00:08:47

And yet when you've moved your business online or parts of your business are

Chris Dillon: 00:08:50

online, we forget that the bit in between, just because it isn't happening in person,

Chris Dillon: 00:08:55

it's still happening for that person.

Chris Dillon: 00:08:57

We just need to make it better.

Chris Dillon: 00:08:59

And it's never gonna be as good as if you're with somebody in person.

Chris Dillon: 00:09:02

I'm an automation guy and I would say the best conversations you can ever have

Chris Dillon: 00:09:05

are standing in front of somebody else.

Chris Dillon: 00:09:08

But just filling out a form and it says, "Thanks, we'll be in touch," and then

Chris Dillon: 00:09:12

you get one email in six days, brilliant

Vit Muller: 00:09:15

So the obvious solution, you could say, you just need to

Vit Muller: 00:09:19

be more empathetic, put yourself in your customer's shoes and try

Vit Muller: 00:09:23

and experience from their point of view and then make adjustments.

Vit Muller: 00:09:27

Easy to say, right?

Vit Muller: 00:09:28

but I'm sure there's more to it.

Vit Muller: 00:09:30

There's a better framework, or there's more specific framework to it, which I

Vit Muller: 00:09:33

think is something that you've mastered.

Vit Muller: 00:09:35

do you wanna break it down a little bit?

Chris Dillon: 00:09:37

Yeah.

Chris Dillon: 00:09:38

I think the, the biggest thing for me is… there's three things.

Chris Dillon: 00:09:42

One part is gonna be your voice and video, and I'll talk about that very briefly.

Chris Dillon: 00:09:47

I think the other part is recognizing that even if you try and see it through

Chris Dillon: 00:09:51

your customer's point of view, your customers think differently to you.

Chris Dillon: 00:09:55

We all have different personality profiles, so some people wanna make

Chris Dillon: 00:09:58

decisions immediately, some people need fi- 500 questions answered.

Chris Dillon: 00:10:02

Neither is a pro or a con, it's just a different personality type.

Chris Dillon: 00:10:06

So there's no one-size-fits-all approach to this that will

Chris Dillon: 00:10:09

work perfectly for everyone.

Chris Dillon: 00:10:11

And which brings me onto the third bit, a lot of businesses try and aim for

Chris Dillon: 00:10:15

perfection, and perfection is impossible.

Chris Dillon: 00:10:17

But they aim for perfection at the expense of getting it good, which

Chris Dillon: 00:10:21

I very… I see that all the time.

Chris Dillon: 00:10:23

"I need to launch my website, but it isn't perfect, so I don't wanna put it

Chris Dillon: 00:10:27

out into the world." It's like, okay, right now it's not live, so you are

Chris Dillon: 00:10:30

guaranteeing you get no sales from it.

Chris Dillon: 00:10:33

If you put something up that isn't as good, the worst case scenario is

Chris Dillon: 00:10:36

what you're currently guaranteeing.

Chris Dillon: 00:10:38

So put something up, 'cause the worst case, you might get one, you might not.

Chris Dillon: 00:10:43

You definitely don't if it's not live.

Chris Dillon: 00:10:45

But the… I think the biggest bit is video.

Chris Dillon: 00:10:48

and the, I could talk about WhatsApp and I could talk about how those of

Chris Dillon: 00:10:52

us that use it in most countries, it is the default platform.

Chris Dillon: 00:10:56

It's something we're used to.

Chris Dillon: 00:10:57

And I talk about three things people always do, what they've always done,

Chris Dillon: 00:11:02

what feels familiar to them, or what they think everybody else is doing.

Chris Dillon: 00:11:06

And if you as a marketer or an agency are trying to get somebody to do

Chris Dillon: 00:11:08

something that doesn't fit into one of those three, you probably won't succeed.

Chris Dillon: 00:11:14

And again, WhatsApp feels familiar to us.

Chris Dillon: 00:11:16

We've always used it, like most people aren't new to WhatsApp.

Chris Dillon: 00:11:20

and we know everybody else is using it because we're communicating

Chris Dillon: 00:11:23

with everybody else through it.

Chris Dillon: 00:11:25

So it fits all of those brackets.

Chris Dillon: 00:11:28

But it's very easy when you're just relying on text-based stuff, whether

Chris Dillon: 00:11:33

that is SMS, email, even text-based WhatsApp, by the way, landing

Chris Dillon: 00:11:37

pages, flyers, posters, whatever.

Chris Dillon: 00:11:40

It's very easy to write something down that gets read in a different way.

Chris Dillon: 00:11:45

And the example that I use for this, and I'll be talking about this on

Chris Dillon: 00:11:48

stage at Level Up, and it's in most of my keynote presentations, is my

Chris Dillon: 00:11:51

favorite sentence, which is weird, so please bear with me for a second.

Chris Dillon: 00:11:55

But the sentence is: I didn't tell you to kill him And it's my favorite sentence

Chris Dillon: 00:11:59

because it has seven different words in it and six completely different meanings

Chris Dillon: 00:12:04

based on which word I put the emphasis on.

Chris Dillon: 00:12:07

'Cause if I say to you out loud, "I didn't tell you to kill him," it means

Chris Dillon: 00:12:11

something different to, "I didn't tell you to kill him." "I didn't tell you

Chris Dillon: 00:12:14

to kill him." "I didn't tell you to kill him." "I didn't tell you to kill

Chris Dillon: 00:12:18

him," and "I didn't tell you to kill him," all mean something completely

Vit Muller: 00:12:21

Yeah

Chris Dillon: 00:12:22

If I write that sentence down in my marketing, I

Chris Dillon: 00:12:25

have a one in six chance of you reading that the way that I wrote it

Vit Muller: 00:12:28

Good point

Chris Dillon: 00:12:29

that is heavily gonna be influenced by the mood

Chris Dillon: 00:12:31

that you are in when you read it.

Chris Dillon: 00:12:34

So if you've had a bad morning, if you're stressed, if you haven't had your coffee

Chris Dillon: 00:12:37

that day, if you've argued with your spouse and you read something from a

Chris Dillon: 00:12:41

company that remember you care a lot less about than you would somebody that you

Chris Dillon: 00:12:45

actually trust and love, you're gonna read that naturally in the worst way possible.

Chris Dillon: 00:12:50

I, I had somebody send me a message the other day going, "I've just had

Chris Dillon: 00:12:53

this happen. What's going on?" And I read- I misread it and I read it as a,

Chris Dillon: 00:12:57

what do you mean what's going on?" But actually they said, "I've just had this

Chris Dillon: 00:13:00

happen. What's going on?" Like they loved it was happening and I didn't…

Vit Muller: 00:13:03

As opposed to you, you thought it's like they're attacking you, like

Chris Dillon: 00:13:06

Yeah.

Chris Dillon: 00:13:07

I w- I was like, what do you mean what's going on?

Chris Dillon: 00:13:08

that's a good thing, is it?" But because it was text-based, I took it the complete

Chris Dillon: 00:13:12

opposite way of which it was intended.

Chris Dillon: 00:13:14

This is me living my own talk, by the way.

Chris Dillon: 00:13:16

Like it happens all the time.

Chris Dillon: 00:13:19

And one thing that WhatsApp allows us to do better than any other platform out

Chris Dillon: 00:13:23

there is that when somebody, let's say, comes in through an inquiry or through

Chris Dillon: 00:13:28

a website or however they come in, is my ability to send them a video instantly

Chris Dillon: 00:13:32

where they can see me, they can trust me, and I could go into things about body

Chris Dillon: 00:13:36

language and hand placement and all that kind of stuff, but they hear my voice.

Chris Dillon: 00:13:41

So when I say certain things, it's taken exactly the way

Chris Dillon: 00:13:44

that I intended it to be taken.

Chris Dillon: 00:13:46

The tonality is there.

Chris Dillon: 00:13:47

You can hear what I mean.

Chris Dillon: 00:13:48

You can… I… It builds that huge amount of trust and also it grabs your attention.

Chris Dillon: 00:13:54

And I have never met a marketer that will disagree with the following

Chris Dillon: 00:13:57

sentence, that if you can take their attention from that initial inquiry

Chris Dillon: 00:14:01

point and get them immediately watching something that is three minutes long,

Chris Dillon: 00:14:07

you're quintupling their attention that it would've been right at the

Chris Dillon: 00:14:10

start when they're most engaged.

Chris Dillon: 00:14:12

That's only ever a good thing

Vit Muller: 00:14:14

You're speeding up the cycle.

Vit Muller: 00:14:16

It's about people know, and trust you.

Vit Muller: 00:14:17

So if you put a video there, you put your tonality, you put your emotion

Vit Muller: 00:14:21

in there, they get to experience your personality through it.

Vit Muller: 00:14:24

and if it's a positive experience, then yeah, it's that, right?

Vit Muller: 00:14:28

So it's improving conversions.

Vit Muller: 00:14:30

How would you do that though?

Vit Muller: 00:14:31

Is it like, now we're getting into the technical side.

Vit Muller: 00:14:34

I tend to default into technical things 'cause I'm a bit of a nerd.

Vit Muller: 00:14:36

But, how would you do it at scale?

Vit Muller: 00:14:38

Would it be, one video that's same and it's like high made?

Vit Muller: 00:14:42

Or would you high- highly personalize it?

Vit Muller: 00:14:44

How would you-- What's the

Chris Dillon: 00:14:47

The-- now my answer to this is gonna be a best practice example

Chris Dillon: 00:14:51

and a practical practice example.

Chris Dillon: 00:14:54

So I would say to everybody, best practice is doing this manually every

Chris Dillon: 00:14:58

time a lead comes in, personalized to the person that's getting there.

Chris Dillon: 00:15:01

In practicality, that isn't normally possible.

Chris Dillon: 00:15:05

You can't have a consistent experience for everybody across the board if

Chris Dillon: 00:15:09

it relies on you being available to do that experience immediately.

Chris Dillon: 00:15:13

Alex Hormozi is massive in the marketing space, as I'm pretty sure

Chris Dillon: 00:15:17

all of the listeners will be aware of, and he recants a story about a

Chris Dillon: 00:15:21

business owner that he knows who has a s- lead to close rate of about 55%.

Chris Dillon: 00:15:28

It's a huge conversion rate from

Vit Muller: 00:15:30

That's awesome

Chris Dillon: 00:15:31

And he was asked, he basically asked, how are you doing that?"

Chris Dillon: 00:15:35

And he said, "I've, I employ one lady, and I pay her $60,000 a year, and

Chris Dillon: 00:15:39

her only job is to reach out to every lead within 60 seconds and call them.

Chris Dillon: 00:15:43

She's not tasked with anything else.

Chris Dillon: 00:15:45

That is all she does." And I remember listening to that

Chris Dillon: 00:15:48

and going, "Do you know what?

Chris Dillon: 00:15:49

I believe the stat." I have no disbelief over that stat.

Chris Dillon: 00:15:52

I completely understand if that's the process.

Chris Dillon: 00:15:53

I believe that.

Chris Dillon: 00:15:55

But it takes two massive considerations out of play.

Chris Dillon: 00:15:59

One is that you don't get enough volume of a lead that when she's on the c- phone

Chris Dillon: 00:16:03

to one lead, another one comes through.

Chris Dillon: 00:16:05

And two, that your leads come in around normal functioning hours, i.e.,

Chris Dillon: 00:16:10

not after, say, 9:00 p.m. or before 7:00 p.m.- 7:00 a.m. And I don't know about

Chris Dillon: 00:16:14

you, but I get the majority of my leads when business owners are going onto their

Chris Dillon: 00:16:18

we- onto my website or see a pa- paid ad or are scrolling through socials,

Chris Dillon: 00:16:22

and if I tried to send them something personalized or tried to call them at two

Chris Dillon: 00:16:26

o'clock in the morning, I'd get a filed.

Vit Muller: 00:16:29

Yeah..

Chris Dillon: 00:16:30

So there is the best case scenario, which would be amazing

Chris Dillon: 00:16:33

to be able to do it personally.

Chris Dillon: 00:16:35

But what's 80% as good, but 80% all the time, is having something that goes

Chris Dillon: 00:16:40

out to them that says, "Hi, Chris here.

Chris Dillon: 00:16:43

Firstly, thank you so much for filling out the form a few moments ago.

Chris Dillon: 00:16:46

This video is automated.

Chris Dillon: 00:16:47

I'm personally gonna reach out myself within the next 24 hours.

Chris Dillon: 00:16:51

In the meantime, if you wanna skip the stage where I try and call you

Chris Dillon: 00:16:53

at a time that might not suit you or you're busy, you can press the

Chris Dillon: 00:16:57

button below and book in a time and I'll call you at exactly that point.

Chris Dillon: 00:17:00

The rest of this video is gonna explain and answer a few questions

Chris Dillon: 00:17:02

everybody pretty much has at this stage.

Chris Dillon: 00:17:05

And if by the end of it you absolutely hate me, brilliant.

Chris Dillon: 00:17:07

Send me the word stop, I'll never message you again.

Chris Dillon: 00:17:09

If you think I might be able to help, the next step is having that

Chris Dillon: 00:17:12

call." And then I'll go in and answer a few FAQs, answer what my pricing

Chris Dillon: 00:17:15

looks like, all in that one first video that gets sent immediately.

Chris Dillon: 00:17:20

'Cause if it's being sent within 10 seconds, they know it's automated anyway.

Chris Dillon: 00:17:23

They're not stupid then just encourages engagement.

Chris Dillon: 00:17:26

So I think it would be better if every single time a lead come in, you just

Chris Dillon: 00:17:32

voice note to them and said, "Look, you've just come in. It's Chris here. Seen the

Chris Dillon: 00:17:35

company, you're based where I live."

Chris Dillon: 00:17:36

Like all of the personal stuff that we're taught, that's great.

Chris Dillon: 00:17:39

But practically, it becomes very difficult either when you start scaling up leads,

Chris Dillon: 00:17:45

start scaling up your own workload.

Chris Dillon: 00:17:47

if I had a lead come in now for the next however long we're

Chris Dillon: 00:17:49

recording this, I can't answer them.

Chris Dillon: 00:17:52

and as, as you mentioned at the start, I talk around the world on this,

Chris Dillon: 00:17:54

and if I go back to HighLevel Live in Manila in August, I was on stage

Chris Dillon: 00:18:01

and I have a QR code that people go through and they interact with me.

Chris Dillon: 00:18:04

They WhatsApp me while I'm on stage.

Chris Dillon: 00:18:06

991 people filled that form out within five minutes.

Chris Dillon: 00:18:10

All of them got a video from me at seven o'clock that night.

Vit Muller: 00:18:13

Brilliant.

Vit Muller: 00:18:13

Yes, I was

Chris Dillon: 00:18:14

cannot do that manually.

Chris Dillon: 00:18:17

Just

Vit Muller: 00:18:17

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:18:18

That's awesome.

Vit Muller: 00:18:18

By the way, shout out to Jay-cee.

Vit Muller: 00:18:20

I had her on a, on the prior episode.

Chris Dillon: 00:18:22

fantastic, isn't

Vit Muller: 00:18:22

yeah, she's,

Chris Dillon: 00:18:24

just a little pocket rocket, and I've very-- I do a lot

Chris Dillon: 00:18:27

of events and I see backstage and green rooms and stuff like that.

Chris Dillon: 00:18:31

Jay-cee backstage still had the same amount of energy and that for

Chris Dillon: 00:18:35

somebody who's done such a amazing work and ultimately had a lot of

Chris Dillon: 00:18:39

pressure on her hands, she's fantastic.

Chris Dillon: 00:18:40

Honestly, she's a great representation for the community

Vit Muller: 00:18:43

Absolutely.

Vit Muller: 00:18:43

Yeah, if you guys are interested, just prior episode, Jay-cee Tan, she

Vit Muller: 00:18:47

talks about her journey and what she's doing for the Philippine community.

Vit Muller: 00:18:51

She's awesome.

Vit Muller: 00:18:52

so you're talking about, practicality, so I like that 'cause, last year I went

Vit Muller: 00:18:56

to Level Up and I went there as… So the, the first time I went there it was

Vit Muller: 00:19:01

just, I'm just a HighLevel, full HighLevel agency owner and I'm just here to learn.

Vit Muller: 00:19:04

Last year I went there still that, but also at that point I already run this

Vit Muller: 00:19:08

podcast for about almost two years.

Vit Muller: 00:19:11

So I went there to do interviews as well.

Vit Muller: 00:19:13

But I wanted to capitalize on it 'cause I have some snapshots,

Vit Muller: 00:19:16

that I offer and a couple of other offers, but it's like, okay, what

Vit Muller: 00:19:19

do I wanna get out of this, right?

Vit Muller: 00:19:21

So I want, I wanna line up more awesome people for guests

Vit Muller: 00:19:24

as interview, for interviews.

Vit Muller: 00:19:26

I potentially, wanna explore if there's any sponsors that would be

Vit Muller: 00:19:31

a good fit that might be interested.

Vit Muller: 00:19:33

and then number three was just collaborations.

Vit Muller: 00:19:37

Maybe some, some projects together or maybe they're interested in snapshots.

Vit Muller: 00:19:42

So what I did, and then whenever I went around and it, I don't know, maybe

Vit Muller: 00:19:46

you've seen me, I was just walking around a lot, with my microphone.

Vit Muller: 00:19:49

whenever I sp- stopped somebody, it was like I was just

Vit Muller: 00:19:51

doing these mini interviews.

Vit Muller: 00:19:53

I would talk to them, "Hey, how are enjoying this experience?"

Vit Muller: 00:19:56

"What's your favorite moment of HighLevel so- Level Up so far?

Vit Muller: 00:19:58

And who have you seen speaking so far?" Just the mini interviews.

Vit Muller: 00:20:03

So that was like build a bit of an rapport, create content.

Vit Muller: 00:20:07

But then I had, I pulled up my, my, my QR code for my digital business card for

Vit Muller: 00:20:11

them to save my details 'cause they were like, "Oh, I'll check out your podcast."

Vit Muller: 00:20:15

So I made it easy for them.

Vit Muller: 00:20:16

But then there was a little form and I said, "Look, if you fill this

Vit Muller: 00:20:19

form, I'll send you something later." and then I automated the full thing.

Vit Muller: 00:20:24

And this came on back of my experience in the first year, which I didn't

Vit Muller: 00:20:28

have it automated, and I realized you get bombarded with all the vendors,

Vit Muller: 00:20:32

all the prospects, all the flyers, all the merch and all the cool stuff.

Vit Muller: 00:20:38

Plus, I mean, it's-- let's face it, Level Up is awesome, but it's overwhelming.

Vit Muller: 00:20:43

It's just like there's always buzz.

Vit Muller: 00:20:44

You're talking to so many people and there's so many cool opportunities, and

Vit Muller: 00:20:49

then you finish maybe at 1:00 and you go back, to your hotel room and you're

Vit Muller: 00:20:54

like buzzing and you're like, I don't even remember," like it's just so much.

Vit Muller: 00:20:58

So I always thought like that first experience was I missed out on the

Vit Muller: 00:21:02

opportunity to… 'Cause networking is important, but if you don't

Vit Muller: 00:21:05

capture those connections and you do something with it, it's like, it's

Vit Muller: 00:21:09

okay or they might remember me, but they have nothing to do with it.

Vit Muller: 00:21:12

So what I did is I just build that form and it just had, name,

Vit Muller: 00:21:15

email, and then a little radio field, checkbox, three checkboxes.

Vit Muller: 00:21:19

check, check this if you want to learn more about the podcast.

Vit Muller: 00:21:22

Check this if you are interested about my snapshots, and then check th- this if you,

Vit Muller: 00:21:26

maybe a sponsorship, whatever that was.

Vit Muller: 00:21:28

So I had for each one of those, I had a different follow-up sequence, but

Vit Muller: 00:21:32

it was like, "Hey, just real quick, thank you for filling out the form.

Vit Muller: 00:21:35

I know that you're interested in this and that.

Vit Muller: 00:21:36

I'm just sending you this right away.

Vit Muller: 00:21:38

You're probably not gonna read it 'cause you're at Level Up right now." That's how

Vit Muller: 00:21:40

I timed it. "You're at Level Up right now.

Vit Muller: 00:21:43

I won't bug you with anything.

Vit Muller: 00:21:44

You're probably not here for me for the next five days

Vit Muller: 00:21:46

'cause I know what it's like.

Vit Muller: 00:21:47

You're gonna get h- get back home from a Level Up, you're gonna

Vit Muller: 00:21:49

be catching up with everything.

Vit Muller: 00:21:51

You're not gonna be thinking about this, but in about a week

Vit Muller: 00:21:54

time, I'm gonna send you some stuff." And it worked really well.

Chris Dillon: 00:21:57

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:21:58

it,

Chris Dillon: 00:21:58

Ca- can I show you how I do that?

Chris Dillon: 00:22:00

very similar str- strategically very similar to you.

Chris Dillon: 00:22:03

so for, but I wanna show you my phone because this is the best money that

Chris Dillon: 00:22:07

I've ever spent in my entire life.

Chris Dillon: 00:22:09

That is the back of my phone

Vit Muller: 00:22:11

Nice.

Vit Muller: 00:22:12

Oh, did you get a, is it custom, custom

Chris Dillon: 00:22:14

It's a custom case that's on the back of my phone.

Chris Dillon: 00:22:17

I've got a new phone and a, a new case on order as well coming.

Chris Dillon: 00:22:20

So every time I get a new phone, I need to get a new case.

Chris Dillon: 00:22:22

But exactly the sa- 'cause I have my phone on me all the time.

Chris Dillon: 00:22:25

There's never a scenario where I don't have my phone,

Chris Dillon: 00:22:28

so I always have the QR code.

Chris Dillon: 00:22:30

And again, same as you, scan it.

Chris Dillon: 00:22:32

There are a few buttons if they wanna go just book a meeting straight in, they can.

Chris Dillon: 00:22:35

But there's a form where it demos the WhatsApp stuff that I talk about.

Chris Dillon: 00:22:39

And I'll say to people, "Look, do that.

Chris Dillon: 00:22:40

You're gonna get a video from me later on today that'll say thank

Chris Dillon: 00:22:44

you for stopping and talking to me.

Chris Dillon: 00:22:46

And if you haven't booked a meeting in with me, I'm gonna send you another

Chris Dillon: 00:22:48

video after that." I'm very clear and transparent with everybody that my job

Chris Dillon: 00:22:52

is to teach clients how to do follow-up.

Chris Dillon: 00:22:55

WhatsApp is the big shiny object.

Chris Dillon: 00:22:57

I plan out a full customer experience, and I truly believe you do a disservice

Chris Dillon: 00:23:01

to somebody that you can help if you're not following them up, as long

Chris Dillon: 00:23:03

as you're giving them the opportunity to say, "Chris, leave me alone."

Vit Muller: 00:23:06

Absolutely

Chris Dillon: 00:23:08

on that, I think this is really valuable, so I wanna include this.

Chris Dillon: 00:23:11

There are two questions that I got asked years ago, which

Chris Dillon: 00:23:14

really reframed my mindset.

Chris Dillon: 00:23:16

To anybody that is listening that's worried about bugging people or following

Chris Dillon: 00:23:20

up too much, these are the best two questions I've ever been asked for that.

Chris Dillon: 00:23:24

Question number one is, do you genuinely believe that if somebody

Chris Dillon: 00:23:28

works with you, you can have a positive impact on their business and/or life?

Chris Dillon: 00:23:32

The answer to that should be yes if you're in business.

Chris Dillon: 00:23:35

The second question is, do you think by you not reaching out,

Chris Dillon: 00:23:38

you make it easier or harder for them to get that, that benefit?

Vit Muller: 00:23:42

That's awesome.

Vit Muller: 00:23:43

I love it.

Chris Dillon: 00:23:44

There, there were t- I was asked these two questions and

Chris Dillon: 00:23:47

it massively reframed my mindset.

Chris Dillon: 00:23:49

It's on me 'cause I know that I can help to reach out, as long as you're

Chris Dillon: 00:23:52

combining it with the ability to, for them to say, "Look, it's not for

Chris Dillon: 00:23:55

me," and encourage them to do so.

Chris Dillon: 00:23:57

So I have a series and I tell people when they first get it, "Look, I'm

Chris Dillon: 00:24:00

gonna send you videos and if, because I know it's WhatsApp and I know you're

Chris Dillon: 00:24:03

gonna watch the videos, if you ignore me, I will send you another one." So

Chris Dillon: 00:24:08

very rarely do people ever get to the end of the sequence, and I will get

Chris Dillon: 00:24:12

people opting out in the middle of it.

Chris Dillon: 00:24:13

Brilliant.

Chris Dillon: 00:24:14

I want that.

Chris Dillon: 00:24:15

I wa- if I cannot help you and you don't wanna take that step, I want you out.

Chris Dillon: 00:24:18

I don't wanna bug you.

Chris Dillon: 00:24:20

But I will do a ty- a typical talk, I will get about… If I was pitching on

Chris Dillon: 00:24:24

stage, I don't do that at the high-level events, but if I was pitching on stage,

Chris Dillon: 00:24:28

I'd normally get about 10 to 15% of people while I'm on stage, because

Chris Dillon: 00:24:33

they're already interacted with me on WhatsApp, sending me the word meeting

Chris Dillon: 00:24:37

on WhatsApp, and that sends them the link and they book in for a sales call.

: 00:24:41

00 that night, which is timed very deliberately, 'cause every

: 00:24:44

conference I go to, they will either be at the after-party drinking and

: 00:24:47

then everybody's phones goes off at the same time, which is amazing for me,

Vit Muller: 00:24:51

That's awesome

Chris Dillon: 00:24:52

they're relaxing and they're heading home, whatever

Chris Dillon: 00:24:54

day I'm sort of talking on.

Chris Dillon: 00:24:56

I will sit there at 7:00 and I will watch my phone and a further 10

Chris Dillon: 00:24:59

to 15% of people will just book in

Vit Muller: 00:25:01

They're nice

Chris Dillon: 00:25:02

And I see it from that message.

Chris Dillon: 00:25:04

And I think the point that you're making is we put ourselves

Chris Dillon: 00:25:08

in so many positions, right?

Chris Dillon: 00:25:10

I really dislike the sentence right place at right time.

Chris Dillon: 00:25:14

I dislike it because on its own it implies that everything is just luck

Vit Muller: 00:25:18

yeah

Chris Dillon: 00:25:18

But actually, if you put yourself in loads of right places,

Chris Dillon: 00:25:22

the chances of you being there at the right time is a lot higher.

Chris Dillon: 00:25:25

The, the famous quote, "It's amazing how lucky you are when you work harder." And

Chris Dillon: 00:25:30

the second bit is when that right time comes along, being able to know what

Chris Dillon: 00:25:33

to do and capitalize in that situation.

Chris Dillon: 00:25:35

Again, I'm constantly ready.

Chris Dillon: 00:25:37

I've got leads from flights that I've taken where I've sat next to somebody

Chris Dillon: 00:25:42

who just starts talking and we realize that I might be able to help him.

Chris Dillon: 00:25:45

And we're on a plane and I said, scan that." I have genuinely had sales calls

Chris Dillon: 00:25:49

and booked clients and had referrals from just being out and about, being on

Chris Dillon: 00:25:54

a train going to an event, networking afterwards. At the football… I'm

Chris Dillon: 00:25:57

a huge football fan. I've had people that have seen me at the football

Chris Dillon: 00:26:01

and come over and gone, "You-- I see you post all the time about QPR.

Chris Dillon: 00:26:04

You're the guy that helps businesses with WhatsApp, aren't you?" It's like, "Yeah."

Chris Dillon: 00:26:07

I've been thinking about reaching out." "Look, I'll make it really easy for you.

Chris Dillon: 00:26:10

Scan that and then you're in my world, and then it's my job to reach out to you."

Vit Muller: 00:26:13

Brilliant.

Vit Muller: 00:26:14

He just reminded me.

Vit Muller: 00:26:15

Do you know Leon Bubenikic from Australia?

Chris Dillon: 00:26:18

maybe by face.

Chris Dillon: 00:26:19

I don't know the name

Vit Muller: 00:26:20

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:26:20

I think he's gonna be actually speaking at Level Up, so you'll meet him there.

Vit Muller: 00:26:23

he has this… So in Australia, a flight, an airline called

Vit Muller: 00:26:27

Qantas, probably, Qantas here.

Vit Muller: 00:26:29

so he's got this system how you can, work with Amex and points and do that.

Vit Muller: 00:26:33

but he actually, he told me the best, if you're after, high-ticket clients,

Vit Muller: 00:26:38

get in the business class, and he just flies there, and you got the bars, mini

Vit Muller: 00:26:41

bars, people hang out those mini bars.

Vit Muller: 00:26:44

So if you think about, your target market is already, vetted just by

Vit Muller: 00:26:48

the sheer nature of the ticket is expensive, so people who afford

Vit Muller: 00:26:52

that, generally are wealthier.

Vit Muller: 00:26:54

oftentimes they're business people, so it's, brilliant, And he just hangs

Vit Muller: 00:26:58

around there, and so he just makes connections, makes leads that way.

Chris Dillon: 00:27:02

Did you see, is it Jesse Itzler?

Chris Dillon: 00:27:04

I can never remember a lo- his

Vit Muller: 00:27:06

He was there last year.

Vit Muller: 00:27:07

Yeah, he's

Chris Dillon: 00:27:07

He was one of the s- did you see his talk last year?

Vit Muller: 00:27:10

I seen him, yeah, like super energetic, really great talk.

Vit Muller: 00:27:13

Yeah.

Chris Dillon: 00:27:14

so he talks about

Vit Muller: 00:27:15

very successful

Chris Dillon: 00:27:16

where he was… when he was starting his, I think

Chris Dillon: 00:27:19

it was private jet hire company.

Chris Dillon: 00:27:21

Can't, I can never remember, but really sort of like top end and he

Chris Dillon: 00:27:24

told this story about when he was first starting out, he understood the

Chris Dillon: 00:27:27

importance of being in front of the people that you need to be in front of.

Chris Dillon: 00:27:31

So he found out that there was a huge conference going

Chris Dillon: 00:27:33

on, pr- California, I think.

Chris Dillon: 00:27:35

I may be wrong with that.

Chris Dillon: 00:27:36

There are some details that might be fuzzy, but he found out that there was

Chris Dillon: 00:27:39

a conference on and he flew to go to this conference, turned up thinking that

Chris Dillon: 00:27:42

he could get into the conference and realized that you had to pay for a ticket.

Chris Dillon: 00:27:45

It'd been sold out for months and couldn't have afforded

Chris Dillon: 00:27:48

the ticket at the time anyway.

Chris Dillon: 00:27:49

So he sat there and he realized on day one that all of them were coming

Chris Dillon: 00:27:53

out for lunch, going over the road and going to a coffee shop, and they

Chris Dillon: 00:27:56

would get a muffin and a coffee.

Vit Muller: 00:27:58

Yes,

Chris Dillon: 00:27:59

following day he went into the shop and he bought all of

Chris Dillon: 00:28:03

the muffins and then just sat down in the shop for most of the day.

Chris Dillon: 00:28:07

And when people came out and they asked for a coffee and a muffin, they

Chris Dillon: 00:28:10

said, "We haven't got any muffins.

Chris Dillon: 00:28:11

I can do the coffee." And then as they were walking out, he said,

Chris Dillon: 00:28:14

"I've got a spare muffin if you want." He's got a massive bag full

Chris Dillon: 00:28:17

of muffins underneath his table.

Chris Dillon: 00:28:18

But, he said, "I've got a spare one."

Chris Dillon: 00:28:20

And he just had conversations.

Chris Dillon: 00:28:21

He said he got two clients off of that coffee shop who will look at

Chris Dillon: 00:28:24

it and go, "'Cause you were in the right place at the right time, weren't

Chris Dillon: 00:28:26

you?" And it was like he's done the research of finding out you're gonna

Chris Dillon: 00:28:29

be there and then studied and watched people, and then engineered himself

Chris Dillon: 00:28:33

in the right place at the right time.

Chris Dillon: 00:28:35

And then when the right time has come, he's been confident enough to get their

Chris Dillon: 00:28:39

details and get onto the next step.

Chris Dillon: 00:28:41

And it's… I don't dislike the sentence right place, right time.

Chris Dillon: 00:28:44

I dislike the fact that people use it to almost eliminate the hard

Chris Dillon: 00:28:48

work that went into being prepped and knowing to be in that place.

Vit Muller: 00:28:52

Brilliant.

Vit Muller: 00:28:52

Yeah, I remember that story.

Vit Muller: 00:28:54

He, yeah, that's what you call being, resource- being resourcefulness.

Vit Muller: 00:28:58

you don't have resources, you figure it out.

Vit Muller: 00:28:59

you make it work.

Vit Muller: 00:29:00

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:29:00

No, that's really good.

Vit Muller: 00:29:01

awesome.

Vit Muller: 00:29:02

let's talk about, for the agencies that are listening right

Vit Muller: 00:29:04

now, they're using HighLevel.

Vit Muller: 00:29:06

They know that you can integrate Hi- Whats- WhatsApp.

Vit Muller: 00:29:09

I've actually done it the other day, because, in Australia, WhatsApp is

Vit Muller: 00:29:12

not as, prominent as, as opposed to those countries that I mentioned.

Vit Muller: 00:29:16

By the way, let's mention those countries just for the guys

Vit Muller: 00:29:18

listening, 'cause-- and why that is.

Vit Muller: 00:29:19

Why do you think that is that Spain, South America is more prominent than WhatsApp?

Chris Dillon: 00:29:23

So I pretty much know why it is.

Chris Dillon: 00:29:26

I'll talk about the countries where it's not, and that'll probably make

Chris Dillon: 00:29:29

more sense as to why the other ones are.

Chris Dillon: 00:29:31

excluding Russia, China, and they've got their own alternatives.

Chris Dillon: 00:29:35

The-- Some of, two of the smallest countries in terms of

Chris Dillon: 00:29:37

usage are the US and Australia.

Chris Dillon: 00:29:39

And it's because if we go back to 2004, I think was when the iPhone released, and

Chris Dillon: 00:29:43

2006 I think was when WhatsApp started.

Chris Dillon: 00:29:46

I'm pretty sure I've got those dates correct.

Chris Dillon: 00:29:48

When iPhone came out in the States, and I think they did the same thing

Chris Dillon: 00:29:52

in Australia, they offered iPhone to iPhone messaging free of charge

Vit Muller: 00:29:57

The iMessages,

Chris Dillon: 00:29:57

So WhatsApp in most countries allowed you to free message

Chris Dillon: 00:30:03

people Australia and the US didn't have the necessity for the free messaging

Chris Dillon: 00:30:07

'cause they were getting it because of how strong Apple's launch campaign was.

Chris Dillon: 00:30:12

I mean, iPhone is basically synonymous with a mobile phone over in the s- over

Chris Dillon: 00:30:16

in the States, and it couldn't have been framed to me more perfectly than when I

Chris Dillon: 00:30:20

landed in Dallas to go to the talk last year, and the captain came over the mic

Chris Dillon: 00:30:25

and said, you can now turn your iPhones back on." It wasn't turn your cell

Chris Dillon: 00:30:29

phones or your mobile phones back on.

Chris Dillon: 00:30:30

It was, "Now you can turn your iPhones back on." So it's synonymous over there.

Chris Dillon: 00:30:34

Because of that, WhatsApp didn't have a huge surge, whereas in most other

Chris Dillon: 00:30:38

countries, almost the entirety of Latin America, vast majority of Europe,

Chris Dillon: 00:30:44

vast majority of Africa, and almost all of South Asia For us to message,

Chris Dillon: 00:30:50

it cost money to go back and forth.

Chris Dillon: 00:30:52

And also, 'cause the countries are a lot smaller, it was much more common

Chris Dillon: 00:30:56

for you to message from the UK to Spain or the UK to France or that,

Chris Dillon: 00:30:59

and that was extortionately expensive.

Chris Dillon: 00:31:01

WhatsApp provided a solution there, so it became the default very fast.

Chris Dillon: 00:31:06

Whereas in Australia and the US and a handful of tinier ones,

Chris Dillon: 00:31:11

that necessity wasn't there.

Chris Dillon: 00:31:13

And over time, as I said at the start, people do one of three things.

Chris Dillon: 00:31:16

What they've always done, what they feel familiar with, there's two of them.

Chris Dillon: 00:31:19

People have just always used it.

Chris Dillon: 00:31:21

So even now when plans have come in and you don't have the necessity for

Chris Dillon: 00:31:25

using WhatsApp for that functionality, you have no necessity to change 'cause

Chris Dillon: 00:31:28

that's your inbuilt behavior now.

Chris Dillon: 00:31:30

And then it just gets passed on with generations and people talk to each other.

Chris Dillon: 00:31:33

So what's really interesting in the States when you look at the numbers, and I'm, I

Chris Dillon: 00:31:38

don't, I haven't done the research in the U- in Australia, but I can imagine it'll

Chris Dillon: 00:31:42

be the same, that whilst overall WhatsApp usage is about 32, 33% of internet users

Chris Dillon: 00:31:49

will use WhatsApp on a regular basis.

Chris Dillon: 00:31:52

If you look at the cities that have a really high immigrant population,

Chris Dillon: 00:31:56

cities generally do anyway, that number massively goes up.

Chris Dillon: 00:32:00

So your Miami and stuff like that, that have a huge Latino community, the WhatsApp

Chris Dillon: 00:32:06

usage is up there with what it would be in South America amongst those, amongst

Chris Dillon: 00:32:11

those ethnicities, and it's growing.

Chris Dillon: 00:32:15

I mean, there's 124 million monthly active users in the US as of the

Chris Dillon: 00:32:20

start of, or the middle of last year.

Chris Dillon: 00:32:23

2021, it was only 100 million, so it's grown, it increased 25% in

Chris Dillon: 00:32:27

four years, and they are trying to push that more and more.

Chris Dillon: 00:32:31

But, this is one of the slides in my talk.

Chris Dillon: 00:32:33

Trying to change human behavior is a really difficult thing to do.

Chris Dillon: 00:32:37

So when there's a necessity like saving a s- a solid amount of money

Chris Dillon: 00:32:42

back in the early noughties when this was coming out, people will

Chris Dillon: 00:32:45

change their behavior for that.

Chris Dillon: 00:32:47

Now they've always used WhatsApp, trying to get in on that is really

Chris Dillon: 00:32:51

difficult because you might use something that's similar to WhatsApp

Chris Dillon: 00:32:55

that might be technically as good.

Chris Dillon: 00:32:58

Personally, I think WhatsApp offers probably one of the best platforms

Chris Dillon: 00:33:01

for communication in general.

Chris Dillon: 00:33:03

But even if there's something on par with it, why would you change

Chris Dillon: 00:33:06

for not a significant benefit?

Vit Muller: 00:33:08

Yeah, it doesn't make sense.

Vit Muller: 00:33:09

Yeah

Chris Dillon: 00:33:09

So it's, a lot of it is that it's ingrained at the moment.

Chris Dillon: 00:33:13

Anybody that kind of deals internationally is gonna be using WhatsApp.

Chris Dillon: 00:33:17

Any, as I said, the Latin America community, the Asian community

Chris Dillon: 00:33:22

will basically use it, bar Chinese 'cause they've got WeChat and

Chris Dillon: 00:33:25

that's fairly exclusive to, to China, and Vietnam oddly enough.

Chris Dillon: 00:33:30

So there are a few sort of outliers, but the majority of people, that's where

Chris Dillon: 00:33:33

it has come from and it just took over

Vit Muller: 00:33:35

Is there any particular industries like, 'cause you, you're

Vit Muller: 00:33:38

a fellow agency owner, you run your own agency as well, right?

Vit Muller: 00:33:41

are there any particular niches that you find this works really well?

Vit Muller: 00:33:46

I could think maybe hospitality, but I haven't done any WhatsApp,

Vit Muller: 00:33:50

so like this, I'm just asking from, somebody who doesn't really have much

Vit Muller: 00:33:54

experience with WhatsApp marketing

Chris Dillon: 00:33:56

I think I wouldn't say it's like industry specific.

Chris Dillon: 00:33:59

Hospitality is really good.

Chris Dillon: 00:34:01

I mean, most hotels that I book now, bar the ones in the States, will

Chris Dillon: 00:34:05

give me WhatsApps as part of the booking reminder and confirmation.

Chris Dillon: 00:34:10

And then the ones that have done it really well in the build up to

Chris Dillon: 00:34:13

my stay have encouraged me to book a table for dinner or book into

Chris Dillon: 00:34:15

the spa and, and all of those.

Chris Dillon: 00:34:17

Some of them are just still doing confirmations, which is okay, and

Chris Dillon: 00:34:20

it's easier, but there's so much more that you can do with it.

Chris Dillon: 00:34:24

I think for me, the-- I don't look industry specific because I'm very

Chris Dillon: 00:34:28

much a believer that you're not selling to an industry, you're

Chris Dillon: 00:34:31

still selling just to one person.

Chris Dillon: 00:34:33

I…

Chris Dillon: 00:34:33

Whenever you're, whether it's you working as an agency or whether it's you working

Chris Dillon: 00:34:36

for B2C or B2B, it's still a conversation between, another human being nine

Vit Muller: 00:34:41

Oh, yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:34:42

Like the saying, right?

Vit Muller: 00:34:43

People do business with people.

Chris Dillon: 00:34:45

Yeah.

Chris Dillon: 00:34:46

And for me, the first slide in all of my talks is conversations

Chris Dillon: 00:34:49

lead to conversions.

Chris Dillon: 00:34:51

The more conversations I can have, the more likely I am to

Chris Dillon: 00:34:53

have conversions at the end of it.

Chris Dillon: 00:34:55

And the reason WhatsApp is the tool is I found it even before doing automation, it

Chris Dillon: 00:35:00

becoming part of what I was doing, I had better conversations and more responses

Chris Dillon: 00:35:03

from WhatsApp than I would anywhere else.

Chris Dillon: 00:35:05

And listen, I could list off read rates, I could list off

Chris Dillon: 00:35:08

response rates, reply rates.

Chris Dillon: 00:35:09

You can Google those things and see how much different

Chris Dillon: 00:35:12

it is to any other platform.

Chris Dillon: 00:35:14

But in reality, it just feels different.

Chris Dillon: 00:35:16

If you use WhatsApp all the time, it's a more personal platform, so

Chris Dillon: 00:35:20

it's more customer service orientated.

Chris Dillon: 00:35:22

In terms of where I tend to focus, and the areas and let's call it the

Chris Dillon: 00:35:26

industries, for me, where I've seen it be most effective is businesses

Chris Dillon: 00:35:31

that have a considered sales process.

Chris Dillon: 00:35:34

So whether that is a service-based business, whether it is a high-ticket

Chris Dillon: 00:35:39

product, something that you're generally not gonna impulse buy

Chris Dillon: 00:35:43

that fast, where there needs to be a little bit of a process.

Chris Dillon: 00:35:48

So my, my bread and butter for any clients that I work with is inbound inquiry to get

Chris Dillon: 00:35:53

them to book a call of some description.

Chris Dillon: 00:35:55

That might be a masterclass, but get them to book an appointment.

Chris Dillon: 00:35:58

And then what happens between them booking the appointment and them turning up to

Chris Dillon: 00:36:02

increase the chances of them turning up.

Chris Dillon: 00:36:04

And then what happens after that appointment has happened if

Chris Dillon: 00:36:06

they haven't bought on the call.

Chris Dillon: 00:36:07

So I would always recommend to have a second call booked in from the first

Chris Dillon: 00:36:11

call, so you've got a sequence that does that and they're not left open-ended.

Chris Dillon: 00:36:15

and then the fourth bit that I normally work on with clients is what

Chris Dillon: 00:36:18

happens when they sign and they pay.

Chris Dillon: 00:36:20

'Cause if your experience when you came in was amazing and then they pay and

Chris Dillon: 00:36:23

then it's not great, I'm a big believer there are two first impressions with a

Chris Dillon: 00:36:26

business, one when you first interact and one when you first pay them.

Chris Dillon: 00:36:29

so like that's our bread and butter and that's where I think the biggest

Chris Dillon: 00:36:34

pain points live because marketers will talk all the time, and I've seen

Chris Dillon: 00:36:38

people in the HighLevel world doing this, not incorrectly by the way, I'm

Chris Dillon: 00:36:41

not calling anybody out, but I've seen people in the HighLevel world talk so

Chris Dillon: 00:36:45

much about how you can attract people in.

Chris Dillon: 00:36:47

It's brilliant, what happens next?

Chris Dillon: 00:36:49

' Cause if they, if you're doing all the job of attracting people in and their

Chris Dillon: 00:36:52

experience isn't great… Again, I've, I asked this on stage, I think in Manila.

Chris Dillon: 00:36:56

I said, "Look, put your hand up if you've ever ex- interacted

Chris Dillon: 00:36:59

with a business and then been left thinking, what happens next?'"

Chris Dillon: 00:37:01

Everybody's hand goes up.

Chris Dillon: 00:37:03

It's like, keep your hand up if that made you more likely to give them

Chris Dillon: 00:37:05

money." Everybody's hand goes down.

Chris Dillon: 00:37:07

getting the people in is one thing, and also remembering they're people.

Chris Dillon: 00:37:11

I, I sometimes get a little bit perturbed with some marketers where

Chris Dillon: 00:37:14

we just talk about it's a numbers game and these are the leads.

Chris Dillon: 00:37:17

It's like they're not leads, they're human beings.

Chris Dillon: 00:37:19

And if you have 100 people fill out a form, that's one thing.

Chris Dillon: 00:37:21

If you stood in front of a room of those 100 people, for

Chris Dillon: 00:37:23

a lot of people it's daunting.

Chris Dillon: 00:37:25

But because we think of them as leads and not actual human beings that

Chris Dillon: 00:37:28

have lives, that have kids, that have businesses to run, that might be in

Chris Dillon: 00:37:31

the toilet when you try and call them.

Chris Dillon: 00:37:33

we just, for some reason we've dehumanized the lead coming through.

Chris Dillon: 00:37:37

If you actually think that they're humans and go, what does the human being need

Chris Dillon: 00:37:40

in this process?" Usually you're planning your customer journey a lot better

Vit Muller: 00:37:45

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:37:45

And this is why WhatsApp works so well, because it's personalized.

Vit Muller: 00:37:49

It's a person-- People expect from WhatsApp to be a message from a mate.

Vit Muller: 00:37:53

it's a personal, more like an intimate environment.

Vit Muller: 00:37:56

So this just highlights why the messaging needs to be

Vit Muller: 00:38:01

personal- personalized as well.

Vit Muller: 00:38:04

Otherwise, you're-- If you're gonna do a mess- if you're gonna send them a message

Vit Muller: 00:38:08

and it's just too clinical, it's just too formal, it's just too non-personal,

Vit Muller: 00:38:13

it's disruptions of the na- of the regular environment that they're used to.

Vit Muller: 00:38:17

Amongst all the other chats that they have open with their friends, suddenly

Vit Muller: 00:38:20

a business pops in and it's like, "Ugh, just get out, get away. Just delete,

Vit Muller: 00:38:25

block." so you've highlighted at the start the video message we've talked about.

Vit Muller: 00:38:30

This is where the customer journey is so important.

Vit Muller: 00:38:33

It's not just reminders, but there's more to it.

Vit Muller: 00:38:36

'Cause you wanna show interest, right?

Vit Muller: 00:38:38

people like that when other people are interested in them

Vit Muller: 00:38:42

and asking good questions.

Vit Muller: 00:38:44

There is, I've-- I'm gonna ask you a question in a second.

Vit Muller: 00:38:47

I'm trying to, frame my question.

Vit Muller: 00:38:48

there is, a really good coach in Australia, Taki Moore,

Vit Muller: 00:38:51

who had this framework.

Vit Muller: 00:38:52

I don't know if it's his or he got it from somebody else, maybe from Dan Martell, I

Vit Muller: 00:38:56

can't remember, but say it's sell by chat.

Vit Muller: 00:38:59

We actually engineer the conversation, on the basis of effort.

Vit Muller: 00:39:04

So the first question should be very low effort for somebody to reply

Vit Muller: 00:39:08

if you haven't built rapport yet.

Vit Muller: 00:39:11

So it's always yes/no question.

Vit Muller: 00:39:12

And then they-- if they respond either way, that's good, so you got a response.

Vit Muller: 00:39:17

Then you go in this or that question, so a little bit more specific, which

Vit Muller: 00:39:22

kind of helps you figure out like d- are they in th- this bucket or that bucket.

Vit Muller: 00:39:26

And then the a- the, the framework there was like after every ti- every

Vit Muller: 00:39:31

time they responded, you should always acknowledge what they said

Vit Muller: 00:39:34

so that, just following your own script makes them feel like you care.

Vit Muller: 00:39:39

which, I mean, it should be genuine anyway.

Vit Muller: 00:39:41

I'm just more, more like just a framework.

Vit Muller: 00:39:43

and and then you start getting into the open-ended questions, and now you're

Vit Muller: 00:39:48

having a real deep conversations.

Vit Muller: 00:39:50

I think the trick with that, from my memory, was, you also need to monitor,

Vit Muller: 00:39:54

like you don't wanna go into a long conversations now that somebody just,

Vit Muller: 00:39:58

is just enjoying having a back and forth, 'cause you have a goal, right?

Vit Muller: 00:40:02

But there's a fine balance.

Vit Muller: 00:40:03

is that something that you do as well in a similar way, or

Chris Dillon: 00:40:07

Yeah.

Chris Dillon: 00:40:07

I wanna split it into two things.

Chris Dillon: 00:40:09

on the one hand, you're gonna have the automated stuff that goes

Chris Dillon: 00:40:11

out to people that kind of steers them in one direction or another.

Chris Dillon: 00:40:14

So I haven't talked about this, but one of the features of WhatsApp

Chris Dillon: 00:40:17

but through the API is your ability to use quick reply buttons.

Chris Dillon: 00:40:21

And those quick

Vit Muller: 00:40:22

About the little bottles, like a couple of options you mean?

Chris Dillon: 00:40:24

Yeah, so they'll press one and then they'll get

Chris Dillon: 00:40:26

steered in one way or another.

Chris Dillon: 00:40:27

I talk a lot about in nature desire paths.

Chris Dillon: 00:40:31

So most people will know what a desire path is, but not

Chris Dillon: 00:40:33

necessarily that it's called that.

Chris Dillon: 00:40:35

And it's basically if you have a big area of grass and somebody has cut

Chris Dillon: 00:40:38

the corner and enough people do it, that all of a sudden there's a path

Chris Dillon: 00:40:41

being made out of people's footsteps.

Chris Dillon: 00:40:44

It's called a desire path.

Chris Dillon: 00:40:46

And I talk about it in business a lot, where if you're trying to force somebody

Chris Dillon: 00:40:49

to go a way that is inte- generally not the natural way that they'll do it, either

Chris Dillon: 00:40:55

they'll form their own path or in business terms, they'll normally just turn around

Chris Dillon: 00:40:58

and not bother doing it 'cause they don't care enough about the destination yet.

Chris Dillon: 00:41:02

But if you plan out what that desire path's gonna look like and pay attention

Chris Dillon: 00:41:06

to the behavior, you can often make it easier and steer them in the right way.

Chris Dillon: 00:41:10

So like we won't cut a corner if it's only gonna save us two seconds.

Chris Dillon: 00:41:14

We might cut a corner if it saves us 10 when you're walking.

Chris Dillon: 00:41:18

So let me design the path so that it goes this way, but it's designed

Chris Dillon: 00:41:22

on what you're likely to do.

Chris Dillon: 00:41:23

So there, there are questions and messages that I would have in

Chris Dillon: 00:41:26

sequences like reminders for meetings.

Chris Dillon: 00:41:29

Again, a video 24 hours before somebody comes on a sales call

Chris Dillon: 00:41:32

that tells them everything that's gonna happen on that call.

Chris Dillon: 00:41:35

Incred- like my no-show rate for meetings over the last 18 months is 1.4%.

Chris Dillon: 00:41:39

Minimal.

Chris Dillon: 00:41:41

And it's, and they come into it knowing what's gonna happen on the call because

Chris Dillon: 00:41:44

the video beforehand tells them what it's

Vit Muller: 00:41:45

Let me guess.

Vit Muller: 00:41:46

It's because of those, the, the information you provide

Vit Muller: 00:41:48

beforehand, which automatically qualifies them or disqualifies

Vit Muller: 00:41:52

them, in which case they cancel.

Vit Muller: 00:41:54

But either way, it just sieves them through, so at the end, the ones who are

Vit Muller: 00:41:57

showing up, they really wanna be there

Chris Dillon: 00:41:59

Yeah.

Chris Dillon: 00:41:59

and then I think there's the second side of it where people get into conversation

Chris Dillon: 00:42:02

with you, where I think there's a point where a human being has to take over.

Chris Dillon: 00:42:06

So if you've got somebody conversing with you, have a conversation with them,

Chris Dillon: 00:42:11

especially if it's higher ticket stuff.

Chris Dillon: 00:42:13

there's a coach in the UK called Matt Elwell, E-L-W-E-L-L.

Chris Dillon: 00:42:17

Fantastic, beautiful human being.

Chris Dillon: 00:42:20

very good sales coach.

Chris Dillon: 00:42:21

And I've taken some of his things, and it's really interesting

Chris Dillon: 00:42:24

when you were saying about that, the Australian gentleman.

Chris Dillon: 00:42:26

I've put in things which almost fit into that framework.

Chris Dillon: 00:42:30

So one of the things Matt talks about is when you start a conversation

Chris Dillon: 00:42:32

having what he calls a prospecting pleasure question, something that's

Chris Dillon: 00:42:36

really easy and nice for them to ask.

Chris Dillon: 00:42:38

So instead of going, what can I help you with today?" Or, "What's going

Chris Dillon: 00:42:41

wrong in the business?" It's like, "Look, when it comes to your current

Chris Dillon: 00:42:43

sales, what's going really well?" It's something that is really easy to answer.

Vit Muller: 00:42:48

it's a, and it's positive.

Vit Muller: 00:42:50

you're not saying… the question, what's going on in your business,

Vit Muller: 00:42:52

is just way too open-ended.

Vit Muller: 00:42:54

And if

Chris Dillon: 00:42:55

so

Vit Muller: 00:42:56

it's the worst question you can hear from somebody when

Vit Muller: 00:42:57

you go to a networking event.

Vit Muller: 00:42:59

You don't even know them, and then they start with that question.

Vit Muller: 00:43:02

It's like,

Chris Dillon: 00:43:03

Yeah, you-- it's just laced with, "I wanna try and sell

Chris Dillon: 00:43:05

to you." and we're smart, like human beings are smart, they can sense that.

Chris Dillon: 00:43:09

They might not know what they're sensing, but they can sense it.

Chris Dillon: 00:43:12

So I have a series of questions when somebody's booked a call in with me,

Chris Dillon: 00:43:16

and I want them to answer the questions and do a good job of getting down to

Chris Dillon: 00:43:19

sort of the crux of things themselves.

Chris Dillon: 00:43:21

And it follows similar to what that framework is.

Chris Dillon: 00:43:23

So the first question is, when it comes to your sales and follow-up,

Chris Dillon: 00:43:26

what's going really well right now?

Chris Dillon: 00:43:28

And then they ask- answer it, whatever the answer is.

Chris Dillon: 00:43:30

It then says: Other than that, what are you as a person amazing at?

Chris Dillon: 00:43:33

What's your superpower?

Chris Dillon: 00:43:35

And what do you think you do better than anybody else?

Chris Dillon: 00:43:38

They answer that, and I said: When it comes to what your process looks like on a

Chris Dillon: 00:43:42

scale of one to 10, how would you rate it?

Chris Dillon: 00:43:44

And if they say 10, it goes, "Brilliant, 10's perfect. Frankly, why do you wanna

Chris Dillon: 00:43:48

have a call? 'Cause if it's perfect, you don't need me." If they answer

Chris Dillon: 00:43:51

anything other than a 10, it will be: Because you haven't asked- answered

Chris Dillon: 00:43:55

10, what do you think's in the gap?

Chris Dillon: 00:43:57

What do you think is the reason why that's the case?

Chris Dillon: 00:44:01

And then I'll say: What's most important to you if we do have a conversation?

Chris Dillon: 00:44:04

Customer service, increasing conversion rates or saving time?

Chris Dillon: 00:44:09

They're the three big things that people come to me for.

Chris Dillon: 00:44:12

and then it will go: Are you generating these?

Chris Dillon: 00:44:14

Yes, no.

Chris Dillon: 00:44:14

How many leads are you generating?

Chris Dillon: 00:44:15

What's the average spend?

Chris Dillon: 00:44:17

how many of those are you converting?

Chris Dillon: 00:44:19

Which will very clearly show them what money is being left on the table.

Chris Dillon: 00:44:23

So if they're generating 10 leads, closing five and they're £1,000,

Chris Dillon: 00:44:26

you've got a £5,000 problem.

Chris Dillon: 00:44:28

And then the last question, and it is, again, what you were saying is as you

Chris Dillon: 00:44:31

ask more and more questions and you have more and more of a conversation, you

Chris Dillon: 00:44:34

can get deeper and into the details.

Chris Dillon: 00:44:37

So my last question literally is: When it comes to investing and

Chris Dillon: 00:44:40

making decisions like this, how do you want me to sell to you?

Chris Dillon: 00:44:43

And I will get people come back to say, "Look, it's my decision.

Chris Dillon: 00:44:45

If I like it, I'll make a decision immediately." So then when I'm on a

Chris Dillon: 00:44:49

sales call with them, I will like, "Look, where are we at the moment?

Chris Dillon: 00:44:52

What are your thoughts?" "Look, I really like it." "Fantastic.

Chris Dillon: 00:44:54

I can give you a storming offer right now to get you to pay on the call." It's not a

Chris Dillon: 00:44:58

hard sale bit. I'm leading with what they said, and if they say, "I love to get the

Chris Dillon: 00:45:03

information, take it away, and spend some time," brilliant. The end of the call,

Chris Dillon: 00:45:06

"Look, I'm gonna raise a proposal for you.

Chris Dillon: 00:45:07

Let's get some time booked in one or two weeks.

Chris Dillon: 00:45:10

You have a look over it.

Chris Dillon: 00:45:11

If you decide you wanna go for it, we'll make that your onboarding call.

Chris Dillon: 00:45:13

If not, we'll make that call so it's basically a yes/no, and if it's a

Chris Dillon: 00:45:16

no, absolutely no problem at all."

Vit Muller: 00:45:18

Yeah, I like that.

Vit Muller: 00:45:20

what I like about the, the sequence that you've just outlined is that it starts

Vit Muller: 00:45:26

with respect and it starts with positive.

Vit Muller: 00:45:29

The moment you praise, it's almost like those first two questions that you

Vit Muller: 00:45:32

said, it's almost like it sounded like a compliment, but it was a question.

Vit Muller: 00:45:36

Do you know, what's going on well?

Vit Muller: 00:45:38

And it's it's a, it's not a, it's not a question that you'd, you would guard up.

Vit Muller: 00:45:42

You know what I mean?

Vit Muller: 00:45:43

It's it's a question that you'd be like welcoming and you'd wanna reply

Vit Muller: 00:45:46

because "Ah, cool." so I like that.

Vit Muller: 00:45:48

And then you-- like the question like how many leads, and that's-- to be

Vit Muller: 00:45:52

able to get answers on those very specific questions, at that point, you

Vit Muller: 00:45:57

really need to have some rapport built.

Vit Muller: 00:45:59

So-

Chris Dillon: 00:46:00

we have a really high show-up rate, as I mentioned, for calls.

Chris Dillon: 00:46:02

About 60% of our sales calls will answer those questions beforehand.

Chris Dillon: 00:46:06

No one has ever started them and not finished them.

Chris Dillon: 00:46:09

Nobody has ever asked the first one and not got to the end

Vit Muller: 00:46:12

And that doesn't have… So this framework could work.

Vit Muller: 00:46:16

Could it work as a qu- as a survey form?

Vit Muller: 00:46:17

You could

Chris Dillon: 00:46:18

Oh, yeah.

Chris Dillon: 00:46:19

yeah.

Chris Dillon: 00:46:19

Oh, the, the qualifying bit is so sexy, right?

Chris Dillon: 00:46:22

This is where I get a proper nerd.

Chris Dillon: 00:46:24

I, the… if I get a little bit technical for those of you, the, for

Chris Dillon: 00:46:27

those that are listening and understand the technicalities, I can fully

Chris Dillon: 00:46:30

replace forms with WhatsApp chats.

Chris Dillon: 00:46:34

And I d- I do it with onboarding, and I'll t- I'll talk about how I do it

Chris Dillon: 00:46:38

with a client for qualifying as well.

Chris Dillon: 00:46:40

We've got a client that is a dog training school, and they can only

Chris Dillon: 00:46:43

work with certain breeds of dog, or certain breeds of dogs they cannot work

Chris Dillon: 00:46:46

with, is a better way to phrase it.

Chris Dillon: 00:46:48

So when a lead comes in, one of the first things is, "Let's see if you qualify." And

Chris Dillon: 00:46:53

it says, "Is your dog one of these breeds?

Chris Dillon: 00:46:54

Yes, no."

Chris Dillon: 00:46:55

If it's yes, "Sorry, we can't help you." And the next question is, "Is

Chris Dillon: 00:47:00

your dog neutered?" 'Cause they can't have a dog on site that isn't neutered.

Chris Dillon: 00:47:03

Now, if the answer is no, neutered, spayed, I don't know what the term are.

Chris Dillon: 00:47:08

Basically so that they can't go and shag the other dogs and

Vit Muller: 00:47:12

Oh, castrated or,

Chris Dillon: 00:47:13

Yeah.

Chris Dillon: 00:47:14

so they have to be neutered for, for them to be on site.

Chris Dillon: 00:47:18

Now, if they answer the question, "No, they're not neutered," that doesn't

Chris Dillon: 00:47:22

automatically mean they're a no, 'cause a lot of the times people are inquiring

Chris Dillon: 00:47:26

and they've got brand new puppies.

Chris Dillon: 00:47:28

So they intend on getting them neutered, it's just too young for that to happen.

Chris Dillon: 00:47:32

So the next question isn't, or the next thing isn't, "Sorry, we can't help."

Chris Dillon: 00:47:35

The next thing is, "Do you intend on getting them neutered when they're

Chris Dillon: 00:47:38

of age?" And if the answer is yes, it says, "When is that gonna happen?

Chris Dillon: 00:47:41

Within three months, six months, 12 months?" And each of those add the-

Chris Dillon: 00:47:44

add them into their own workflow that chases them up two months,

Chris Dillon: 00:47:47

five months, or 11 months later.

Chris Dillon: 00:47:49

So you can do all of that, but where I get really nerdy, we have a, an

Chris Dillon: 00:47:53

onboarding, so obviously run an agency.

Chris Dillon: 00:47:55

what we want is when somebody's signed a contract and paid us

Chris Dillon: 00:47:58

money, for them to be able to get access to their account immediately.

Chris Dillon: 00:48:01

But we don't do SaaS plans 'cause they invest with us for the

Chris Dillon: 00:48:05

service, so we do the account setup.

Chris Dillon: 00:48:07

We don't send them to a SaaS page to go and set up that way.

Chris Dillon: 00:48:10

So I have… They book an onboarding call, and there's a video that goes

Chris Dillon: 00:48:14

to them that says, "Thank you for booking the onboarding." Down below,

Chris Dillon: 00:48:17

press the button that says pre-, "account information" is the button.

Chris Dillon: 00:48:21

And they press it, and then it says, "Brilliant, thank you for that.

Chris Dillon: 00:48:24

Firstly, what is the email address you want to be on the

Chris Dillon: 00:48:26

account for you as a user?

Chris Dillon: 00:48:28

What's the phone number?

Chris Dillon: 00:48:29

What's the official business name?

Chris Dillon: 00:48:30

First line of address, postcode." All of these are questions, but the

Chris Dillon: 00:48:34

workflow works… There's loads of these questions, but the workflow

Chris Dillon: 00:48:37

is just this, these three things repeated o- over, over and over again.

Chris Dillon: 00:48:42

They press the button, send them the WhatsApp question, "What is your email

Chris Dillon: 00:48:45

address?" The, a wait step that waits for them to answer that question.

Chris Dillon: 00:48:49

Then an update custom field step, which takes the body of their answer

Chris Dillon: 00:48:52

and puts it into the custom field, and then goes and asks the next question.

Chris Dillon: 00:48:56

So it's just those three actions.

Chris Dillon: 00:48:58

Ask question, wait for response, fill in res- fill in

Chris Dillon: 00:49:01

a custom field with a response.

Chris Dillon: 00:49:03

Next question

Vit Muller: 00:49:04

And let me guess, you're probably using an AI step

Vit Muller: 00:49:06

to extract that email address so

Chris Dillon: 00:49:07

Don't even need the AI step.

Chris Dillon: 00:49:09

It's just the body of the message.

Chris Dillon: 00:49:11

So the body of reply goes straight into the, field.

Chris Dillon: 00:49:15

Now, we're very good with how we frame the que-

Vit Muller: 00:49:17

because sometimes they might put an email address,

Vit Muller: 00:49:19

but they put, it's this or,

Chris Dillon: 00:49:20

Yeah, they might-- we're quite clear in that because

Chris Dillon: 00:49:22

the video at the start tells them what's gonna happen, we've never had

Chris Dillon: 00:49:26

that as an issue because we'll tell them, "Look, fill in the information

Chris Dillon: 00:49:29

as if you were filling out a form."

Vit Muller: 00:49:31

Okay,

Chris Dillon: 00:49:31

And the questions are quite clear.

Chris Dillon: 00:49:33

So like there's one where they've gotta put the country, but if it's UK,

Chris Dillon: 00:49:36

it's got to be UK, not United Kingdom.

Chris Dillon: 00:49:38

If it's the US, oddly, it's got to be United States.

Chris Dillon: 00:49:42

The USA isn't acceptable.

Vit Muller: 00:49:44

Yeah

Chris Dillon: 00:49:44

So there are a few things where we've clarified how it

Chris Dillon: 00:49:46

needs to be written in the question.

Chris Dillon: 00:49:48

But at the end of it, we then just send a webhook through to go and set

Chris Dillon: 00:49:52

up the subaccount, add the SaaS plan, but we do add them on, we do add

Chris Dillon: 00:49:57

them onto a SaaS plan to give them free credits as part of the package

Chris Dillon: 00:49:59

that they have with us, and add the primary person as the primary user.

Chris Dillon: 00:50:04

All of that happens immediately, and the client who has signed, who's got a

Chris Dillon: 00:50:08

WhatsApp that confirms it, has watched a video, pressed account setup, answered

Chris Dillon: 00:50:12

the question in WhatsApp, and then got the login details WhatsApped to them.

Chris Dillon: 00:50:17

They never leave the platform, but they have their account set up

Vit Muller: 00:50:20

Brilliant

Chris Dillon: 00:50:21

So that's like the nerdiest stuff that we can do, but you can use

Chris Dillon: 00:50:25

it to-- I mean, we've got a client that's a window cleaner that is using

Chris Dillon: 00:50:29

the WhatsApp chat to calculate what the quote's gonna be for the window cleaning.

Chris Dillon: 00:50:33

How m- is it detached or a flat?

Chris Dillon: 00:50:36

Brilliant.

Chris Dillon: 00:50:36

How often do you want the window cleaning?

Chris Dillon: 00:50:37

Four weekly, eight weekly?

Chris Dillon: 00:50:39

Do you want pressure washing?

Chris Dillon: 00:50:40

Do you want conservatory washing?

Chris Dillon: 00:50:41

How many bedrooms have you got?

Chris Dillon: 00:50:42

That kind of stuff.

Chris Dillon: 00:50:43

And each one is question, take answer, and they're multiple choice answers for

Chris Dillon: 00:50:48

this as opposed to free open answers.

Chris Dillon: 00:50:50

If four weekly, maths action, add X to quote field, and then at the end

Chris Dillon: 00:50:56

of it, send a message with a custom variable quote, quote map with a link

Vit Muller: 00:51:00

all automations.

Vit Muller: 00:51:01

This is

Chris Dillon: 00:51:01

All automation.

Chris Dillon: 00:51:02

None of it's AI.

Chris Dillon: 00:51:03

It's all automation.

Vit Muller: 00:51:04

That's interesting.

Vit Muller: 00:51:05

See, I would've thought something like CloseBot would be something

Chris Dillon: 00:51:08

do it.

Chris Dillon: 00:51:09

Yeah, don't get me wrong, like AI could do bits and pieces of this.

Chris Dillon: 00:51:12

A lot of what I was building was before AI became powerful enough to do this.

Chris Dillon: 00:51:16

And so for me, I love AI.

Chris Dillon: 00:51:19

I also think there is a point at which what I call the Netflix

Chris Dillon: 00:51:23

problem, where you give people so many options because AI is so powerful

Chris Dillon: 00:51:27

that they end up not doing anything.

Chris Dillon: 00:51:30

And if I ask somebody a question to go, "What do you want help with?" Versus

Chris Dillon: 00:51:34

saying, "Which of these three are the most important things for you to get help with?

Chris Dillon: 00:51:38

Saving time, closing more sales, or, customer service." They're gonna

Chris Dillon: 00:51:42

pick one of the three that's the most important, and it's a lot easier for

Chris Dillon: 00:51:45

them to go, actually, how am I thinking?"

Chris Dillon: 00:51:47

And for me, when somebody's coming through a process, and again, I'm

Chris Dillon: 00:51:51

very aware that they don't know what I know, they don't know the

Chris Dillon: 00:51:54

answers to the questions that I know.

Chris Dillon: 00:51:56

So me asking them a question where the answer's gonna be dictated by stuff

Chris Dillon: 00:52:00

that I might know that they don't, even if the AI's really intelligent, it's

Chris Dillon: 00:52:04

gonna be quite difficult to find that.

Chris Dillon: 00:52:05

Whereas I'd rather just steer them gently in one direction, because

Chris Dillon: 00:52:09

ultimately, every single business I speak to has a limited amount of

Chris Dillon: 00:52:14

directions that people can come into you.

Chris Dillon: 00:52:16

So instead of giving them 50,000 different choices to eventually hopefully end

Chris Dillon: 00:52:20

up here, just give them three or four.

Chris Dillon: 00:52:23

We don't mind being nudged in the right direction.

Chris Dillon: 00:52:25

We mind being forced down the wrong path.

Vit Muller: 00:52:27

and people these days are so busy.

Vit Muller: 00:52:28

it's, it's-- There are so many decisions that we have to make these days.

Vit Muller: 00:52:32

There's so many influencing factors.

Vit Muller: 00:52:34

There's so much information as well.

Vit Muller: 00:52:36

So if you present it like this, yeah, it's just of a thinking process for

Vit Muller: 00:52:43

them to… You're making it easy.

Vit Muller: 00:52:45

You're probably gonna get way more responses that way.

Vit Muller: 00:52:48

So yeah, it just makes total sense.

Vit Muller: 00:52:50

There is some technicalities, though.

Vit Muller: 00:52:51

I wanna talk about those because I don't know, how many people that are listening,

Vit Muller: 00:52:56

know WhatsApp or have integrated or have set up WhatsApp in their GHL properly.

Vit Muller: 00:53:01

I bet you there'd probably be some people listening that they haven't yet.

Vit Muller: 00:53:04

there is some specificity.

Vit Muller: 00:53:06

It's not like in a regular SMS channel.

Vit Muller: 00:53:08

There is some restrictions, right?

Vit Muller: 00:53:10

There is the 24-hour window.

Vit Muller: 00:53:12

Did you wanna break that down a little bit?

Chris Dillon: 00:53:13

Yeah, 100%.

Chris Dillon: 00:53:15

It-- you framed it perfectly as well.

Chris Dillon: 00:53:16

My talk at Level Up is called WhatsApp Isn't SMS, and how to

Chris Dillon: 00:53:20

use and harness it properly.

Chris Dillon: 00:53:22

there are two different types of messages that you can send

Chris Dillon: 00:53:24

in WhatsApp with the API.

Chris Dillon: 00:53:26

Now, each of the message types has different message types, but

Chris Dillon: 00:53:29

there are basically two categories.

Chris Dillon: 00:53:31

There are template messages and there are what we're just

Chris Dillon: 00:53:34

gonna call session messages.

Chris Dillon: 00:53:36

Template messages can be sent to anybody 24/7, 365.

Chris Dillon: 00:53:42

There's a limit on how many you can send to somebody a day, as in if I'd sent you

Chris Dillon: 00:53:45

two today and you haven't responded to any of them, I couldn't send you a third until

Chris Dillon: 00:53:49

24 hours has passed from the first one.

Vit Muller: 00:53:51

Right

Chris Dillon: 00:53:51

to keep it easy, template messages I can send to anybody automated,

Chris Dillon: 00:53:56

I can send it en masse, I can send it through any of the sequences.

Chris Dillon: 00:53:59

I couldn't, with the API, just go and type a random message and

Chris Dillon: 00:54:03

send it to you at any random time

Vit Muller: 00:54:05

Template messages, they need to be approved.

Chris Dillon: 00:54:07

They do indeed.

Chris Dillon: 00:54:08

Yeah.

Chris Dillon: 00:54:08

So when you create them in HighLevel, it automatically

Chris Dillon: 00:54:10

submits them to Meta for approval.

Chris Dillon: 00:54:12

The approval process when you're a brand new account can take

Chris Dillon: 00:54:15

up to 24 hours on a message.

Chris Dillon: 00:54:18

Once you've been doing it for a while, our approval takes 30 to 60 seconds.

Vit Muller: 00:54:22

And we're only talking about that first initial outreach

Vit Muller: 00:54:24

message that needs to be approved.

Vit Muller: 00:54:26

Once they respond, whatever you have back and forth no longer

Chris Dillon: 00:54:29

Yeah.

Chris Dillon: 00:54:29

so this is where I'll clarify the 24-hour window.

Chris Dillon: 00:54:32

So let's say, Vit, you came to me, right?

Chris Dillon: 00:54:34

And you saw my website and you filled in a thing on my website, and I

Chris Dillon: 00:54:37

automatically WhatsApp you in response.

Chris Dillon: 00:54:39

So technicalities, form

Vit Muller: 00:54:41

how… Sorry to jump in.

Vit Muller: 00:54:43

How would you know if they have WhatsApp?

Chris Dillon: 00:54:44

My target will always have WhatsApp, but you can have in

Chris Dillon: 00:54:48

the workflow there is a branch that says, "Is WhatsApp valid? Yes or no?"

Vit Muller: 00:54:52

Okay.

Vit Muller: 00:54:52

HighLevel

Chris Dillon: 00:54:52

try and send the WhatsApp and it's undelivered and

Chris Dillon: 00:54:54

it said it's not a valid WhatsApp, you can then default to SMS.

Vit Muller: 00:54:58

Brilliant.

Chris Dillon: 00:54:59

So let's assume you do have WhatsApp and I knew that at the time,

Chris Dillon: 00:55:02

or not knew that, but you have WhatsApp.

Chris Dillon: 00:55:05

So you fill in form, I send WhatsApp.

Chris Dillon: 00:55:08

Brilliant.

Chris Dillon: 00:55:08

You-- It gets received to your phone.

Chris Dillon: 00:55:09

That's a template message because our conversation is closed.

Chris Dillon: 00:55:13

If you come back to me and reply, it starts a 24-hour clock.

Chris Dillon: 00:55:19

So that opens up a conversation, and in that window I can go back

Chris Dillon: 00:55:23

and forth like normal WhatsApp.

Chris Dillon: 00:55:24

Don't have to have anything approved.

Chris Dillon: 00:55:26

I can send you messages, I can get on voice notes, I can send you a video.

Chris Dillon: 00:55:29

None of that has to go through any approval process.

Chris Dillon: 00:55:32

And by the way, your reply to me could be you pressing those quick

Chris Dillon: 00:55:35

reply buttons I was talking about.

Chris Dillon: 00:55:37

You don't have to type the reply.

Chris Dillon: 00:55:39

So when I do my talks on stage, the first thing that gets sent to you while you're

Chris Dillon: 00:55:44

watching me talk is a selfie of me that's just stupid, that has three buttons

Chris Dillon: 00:55:48

that says, "Oh my God, that scared me.

Chris Dillon: 00:55:50

Your hair is messy.

Chris Dillon: 00:55:51

What a beauty." They're the three buttons. And I'll talk on stage and

Chris Dillon: 00:55:56

I'll say, let's see who is gonna take the mick out of me today." Da, da, da.

Chris Dillon: 00:56:00

do all of that.

Chris Dillon: 00:56:01

And because I'm pointing out other people taking the mick, everybody else

Chris Dillon: 00:56:04

will go and press their own button.

Chris Dillon: 00:56:06

But I'm doing it because I want all of their conversations to be open.

Chris Dillon: 00:56:09

So every time you reply, that 24-hour clock resets.

Chris Dillon: 00:56:13

So in theory, you and me could go back and forth for an unlimited amount of

Chris Dillon: 00:56:17

time with a nev- never-ending open conversation if you send me a message

Chris Dillon: 00:56:21

or reply at least once every 24 hours.

Vit Muller: 00:56:24

And those

Chris Dillon: 00:56:25

time you reply.

Chris Dillon: 00:56:27

They used to be up until the 1st of October, and then Meta changed it.

Chris Dillon: 00:56:31

They're about two cents per session message.

Chris Dillon: 00:56:34

Me receiving it from you is free.

Chris Dillon: 00:56:36

Me sending it to you is about two cents.

Chris Dillon: 00:56:37

The session

Vit Muller: 00:56:38

And the initial template one is a bit more expensive

Chris Dillon: 00:56:41

It depends on the type of template, but yeah, generally if

Chris Dillon: 00:56:43

it's a marketing template message, as I said, there are certain

Chris Dillon: 00:56:46

categories in each of the ones.

Chris Dillon: 00:56:47

Marketing template's about seven cents, differs per country

Chris Dillon: 00:56:50

and per receiving country.

Chris Dillon: 00:56:52

and then there are utility messages which are about two to three cents.

Chris Dillon: 00:56:56

They're cheaper.

Chris Dillon: 00:56:57

So

Vit Muller: 00:56:58

by country.

Vit Muller: 00:56:58

That's interesting.

Vit Muller: 00:56:59

So that's something I wasn't aware of.

Vit Muller: 00:57:00

that's the whole premise I thought why WhatsApp would be better than,

Vit Muller: 00:57:05

like a re-- fill your number.

Vit Muller: 00:57:06

It's like different… Australia is horrendously expensive.

Vit Muller: 00:57:10

Europe, UK, lot, still expensive too, as opposed to US.

Vit Muller: 00:57:14

That's SMS messages.

Vit Muller: 00:57:15

I thought that WhatsApp wasn't… It didn't matter

Vit Muller: 00:57:18

what country it is because it's

Chris Dillon: 00:57:20

It va- it varies, but the, the vary is like there's

Chris Dillon: 00:57:24

not a huge amount of variety.

Chris Dillon: 00:57:26

You can normally Google, WhatsApp API rate card, and there's a Facebook article

Chris Dillon: 00:57:31

that has a full breakdown of everyone.

Chris Dillon: 00:57:33

Generally speaking, it'll be if there's a difference, it'll be one or two cents

Chris Dillon: 00:57:38

between like the highest and the lowest.

Chris Dillon: 00:57:40

so what we always encourage people to do on client side is your automations that

Chris Dillon: 00:57:45

are gonna follow people up where you can't guarantee that the conversation

Chris Dillon: 00:57:48

is open, they're almost always gonna be template messages in your workflows.

Chris Dillon: 00:57:53

Your reminder sequence and confirmation sequence for appointments, your form

Chris Dillon: 00:57:58

completions, your follow-ups, your expo follow-up speakers, they're

Chris Dillon: 00:58:01

pretty much always templates.

Chris Dillon: 00:58:03

But Those buttons that I keep on talking about, the quick reply buttons, you can

Chris Dillon: 00:58:08

create a workflow that is just looking for somebody pressing that one button.

Chris Dillon: 00:58:12

So instead of going and creating a branch in a workflow where there's

Chris Dillon: 00:58:15

like, "Oh, have they pressed button one, two, and three?" I don't do that.

Chris Dillon: 00:58:19

I have a separate workflow set to look out for button one, separate

Chris Dillon: 00:58:23

workflow set for button two, and there is a reason behind it.

Chris Dillon: 00:58:26

If we think my standard message where one of the buttons will be book a sales call.

Chris Dillon: 00:58:30

When somebody presses that, I don't just want them to get a response.

Chris Dillon: 00:58:35

So it'll be the workflow will be triggered on message received

Chris Dillon: 00:58:38

equals book a sales call.

Chris Dillon: 00:58:40

Technically, it's called customer replied.

Chris Dillon: 00:58:43

book a sales call.

Chris Dillon: 00:58:44

Now, whenever I create any other message, I don't need to create a whole new

Chris Dillon: 00:58:47

workflow branch in that workflow I'm gonna put the message in, because I already have

Chris Dillon: 00:58:51

a workflow when that button's pressed.

Vit Muller: 00:58:53

Mm-hmm

Chris Dillon: 00:58:53

But if you press book a sales call with me, not only does it send

Chris Dillon: 00:58:56

you back the link to go and book that call, it increases your engagement score

Chris Dillon: 00:59:00

in the system, it moves you pipeline stages, it tags you as sales interest, it

Chris Dillon: 00:59:06

notifies me via email even though I get the chats on the app, but it notifies me

Chris Dillon: 00:59:10

to say, "Call Vit, he wants a sales call."

Chris Dillon: 00:59:12

It can then add you into a full sequence if I wanted it to, where it

Chris Dillon: 00:59:16

messages you 23 hours and 30 minutes later, which is still within my window,

Vit Muller: 00:59:21

Right

Chris Dillon: 00:59:22

to say, "You haven't booked a call yet. Book a

Chris Dillon: 00:59:24

call." Do it more elegantly than that, but you get what I mean.

Chris Dillon: 00:59:28

So you can have certain buttons trigger the whole thing, and I have I have

Chris Dillon: 00:59:32

an offer running at the moment, and if anybody's ever interacting with

Chris Dillon: 00:59:35

me, or if they're at Level Up or if they're at a conference and I want them

Chris Dillon: 00:59:38

to sign up at that stage, I just go, "Look, send me this word on WhatsApp."

Chris Dillon: 00:59:42

And then just sending the word sends you the link, makes it easy for you.

Chris Dillon: 00:59:45

I've talked all the time about how easy can it be for the person on

Chris Dillon: 00:59:48

the other end to do the next step.

Chris Dillon: 00:59:51

But you sending that then move-- like does a whole raft of things

Chris Dillon: 00:59:54

in the system, 'cause you're not sending that accidentally.

Chris Dillon: 00:59:57

You're sending that because you want to take the next step, and I want the system

Chris Dillon: 01:00:00

to tell me after a conference when, as you said, I'm wiped, "Here are the 20 people

Chris Dillon: 01:00:05

you spoke to that wanna pay you money."

Vit Muller: 01:00:06

Money's in the follow-up.

Vit Muller: 01:00:08

have HighLevel.

Vit Muller: 01:00:09

We love HighLevel.

Vit Muller: 01:00:10

HighLevel is awesome, and if you guys are not building these follow-up

Vit Muller: 01:00:15

sequences, then you're missing out.

Vit Muller: 01:00:17

Especially when you think about it, traveling to Dallas,

Vit Muller: 01:00:20

let's use that as an example.

Vit Muller: 01:00:22

You have to buy flight tickets, you have to buy accommodation,

Vit Muller: 01:00:25

you have to buy a ticket.

Vit Muller: 01:00:27

all that adds up.

Vit Muller: 01:00:28

Plus US, you gotta spend some money there.

Vit Muller: 01:00:30

it's not cheap.

Vit Muller: 01:00:31

So it's a, it's an, it's a business trip.

Vit Muller: 01:00:32

You can still expense it as a business trip, but it's

Vit Muller: 01:00:35

nevertheless, it's not super cheap.

Vit Muller: 01:00:38

And you want to look at that as a, yes, you wanna go there, listen to

Vit Muller: 01:00:41

speakers, learning opportunity that's, wealth of knowledge, take notes,

Vit Muller: 01:00:45

action notes when you come back.

Vit Muller: 01:00:47

But I think a real opportunity there is also in networking, meeting people,

Vit Muller: 01:00:52

even if it's a fellow agency, you could say a competitor, but you can make

Vit Muller: 01:00:55

friends and, you wanna make sure that you foster those relationships because that

Vit Muller: 01:00:59

could build into referrals or projects, collaborations, whatever event it is.

Vit Muller: 01:01:03

I'm just giving an example of a LevelUp.

Vit Muller: 01:01:05

it's just, there is-- there's always okay, I always like to look at it like from

Vit Muller: 01:01:10

business perspectives, like this is my investment in time and money to go there.

Vit Muller: 01:01:14

what's the return on that investment?

Vit Muller: 01:01:16

Especially if it's a business-related trip, I'm going away from my family,

Vit Muller: 01:01:20

and I know that the amount of money I spent on that trip could have

Vit Muller: 01:01:23

been like a proper family holiday and I'm just going there by myself.

Vit Muller: 01:01:27

So there's a bit of that guilt playing for me as well.

Vit Muller: 01:01:30

Like I gotta bring the dough back home.

Vit Muller: 01:01:31

I gotta make it work.

Vit Muller: 01:01:33

so that's something I learned going to networking events, having the QR

Vit Muller: 01:01:37

code on the phone, having some sort of a basic follow-up, or if it's a-- if

Vit Muller: 01:01:41

you're going to a specific event that you know there is gonna be a specific

Vit Muller: 01:01:44

audience, then even better if you make the follow-up more specific to the

Vit Muller: 01:01:48

event, that's gonna always land better.

Vit Muller: 01:01:51

but yeah, y- what I'm trying to say is everything that we're talking

Vit Muller: 01:01:54

about here, Chris, is just a good confirmation that what I've been

Vit Muller: 01:01:58

doing, is something that, other people are doing and it's proven to work.

Vit Muller: 01:02:03

You added, you're adding extra, level to it with WhatsApp, which is

Vit Muller: 01:02:07

something that I'm gonna dive into.

Vit Muller: 01:02:09

so thank you for breaking that down.

Vit Muller: 01:02:11

is there anything that-- else that we haven't mentioned that would

Vit Muller: 01:02:14

be good to mention in regards to WhatsApp, doing a WhatsApp campaign?

Chris Dillon: 01:02:20

I'd say in extension to this, we are in WhatsApp's

Chris Dillon: 01:02:23

infancy in terms of people using it.

Chris Dillon: 01:02:27

So I guarantee you, if you are doing a follow-up that has videos in it, that

Chris Dillon: 01:02:32

has buttons, you are gonna stand out from your competition almost immediately

Vit Muller: 01:02:37

And they're costing more to send the message with a video

Chris Dillon: 01:02:40

normally less than SMS.

Chris Dillon: 01:02:42

So because with SMS, even in countries where there's a comparable price between

Chris Dillon: 01:02:47

SMS and email, what you've got to remember is that when you send an SMS,

Chris Dillon: 01:02:51

it's 140 characters and you don't really have rich media and content in there

Vit Muller: 01:02:57

Right.

Vit Muller: 01:02:58

Versus WhatsApp

Chris Dillon: 01:02:59

WhatsApp free, it-- there's no sort of charge for a longer WhatsApp.

Chris Dillon: 01:03:02

The character limit is over 1,000 characters.

Chris Dillon: 01:03:05

Please don't send a WhatsApp that has 1,000 characters.

Chris Dillon: 01:03:08

just too… if I ever receive a WhatsApp like that from my wife, I'm like,

Chris Dillon: 01:03:11

"What have I done wrong?" That's not an emotion I want to have when I'm sending

Chris Dillon: 01:03:14

it as a business person to someone.

Chris Dillon: 01:03:16

But I can have up to a 16 megabyte video, which will give you reasonably

Chris Dillon: 01:03:20

up to about a four-minute video without it looking terrible.

Chris Dillon: 01:03:23

You wouldn't want a

Vit Muller: 01:03:24

Hang on.

Vit Muller: 01:03:24

I thought you would just send them a link to like

Chris Dillon: 01:03:27

no.

Chris Dillon: 01:03:27

The video's in the message.

Chris Dillon: 01:03:29

Video's in the message, the image is in the message, the links are behind

Chris Dillon: 01:03:31

buttons, all of the buttons are there.

Chris Dillon: 01:03:34

Like the, the a- the way that it is formed and the way that the message looks

Chris Dillon: 01:03:39

is just a world of difference, 'cause the video is actually sent to them as

Chris Dillon: 01:03:43

if you'd sent the video to your friend.

Chris Dillon: 01:03:45

So it's not a link.

Chris Dillon: 01:03:46

They don't need, ever need to leave the platform.

Chris Dillon: 01:03:48

It's all there.

Chris Dillon: 01:03:48

If you have lead magnets, you can send it as a PDF through.

Chris Dillon: 01:03:52

So when I do my talks on stage, I will say at one point, I do this in every single

Chris Dillon: 01:03:56

talk and it looks like it's serendipity, but it's very much engineered, where

Chris Dillon: 01:04:00

there will be a slide where somebody will go and take a photo inevitably,

Chris Dillon: 01:04:04

and I'm waiting for somebody to do that.

Chris Dillon: 01:04:06

'Cause I will look and I will say, "Look, you're more than welcome to take photos.

Chris Dillon: 01:04:09

All I ask is two things.

Chris Dillon: 01:04:10

One, get me in the photo, send it to me on WhatsApp.

Chris Dillon: 01:04:13

That's my user-generated content for later.

Chris Dillon: 01:04:15

Secondly, if you want the slides, just send me the word 'slides'." And

Chris Dillon: 01:04:19

the word slide sends you back the entire PDF deck that is on that event.

Chris Dillon: 01:04:24

Whole thing.

Chris Dillon: 01:04:25

And again, I want more engagement, so when you get that message, there's a button

Chris Dillon: 01:04:29

that says, "Access secret sexy photo

Vit Muller: 01:04:31

Hey, and what I would say to that too topic even more, I would

Vit Muller: 01:04:35

say, "Hey, you realize I'm covering a topic here right now, and by you

Vit Muller: 01:04:40

taking your focus away from listening to what I'm trying to say and taking

Vit Muller: 01:04:43

notes, you're instead focusing on lifting your phone and taking a picture.

Vit Muller: 01:04:47

At that moment, you're not fully focused what I'm saying.

Vit Muller: 01:04:50

Wouldn't that mean that you're losing the opportunity to learn here?"

Chris Dillon: 01:04:53

Potentially

Vit Muller: 01:04:54

Would-- I'm just, maybe it's an angle

Chris Dillon: 01:04:56

Oh, no.

Chris Dillon: 01:04:56

Yeah, no.

Chris Dillon: 01:04:58

Like for me, the thing is I quite like the fact that they wanna take the

Chris Dillon: 01:05:00

photos, but I would… So long story short, my relationship with HighLevel

Chris Dillon: 01:05:06

kind of grew from, I met the team in June and conversations, and I wrote

Chris Dillon: 01:05:10

the course for HighLevel, so the, the official WhatsApp course in the

Chris Dillon: 01:05:13

HighLevel University, that kind of stuff.

Chris Dillon: 01:05:15

And that eventually led to me being invited to speak at Level Up last

Chris Dillon: 01:05:17

year, and then onto the stages.

Chris Dillon: 01:05:20

I've been told, and I can't say this definitively, but I know this definitely

Chris Dillon: 01:05:23

played a part, that when I did the talk at Level Up last year, I started my talk

Chris Dillon: 01:05:28

by saying, "You are gonna interact with my talk more than any other talk across this

Chris Dillon: 01:05:33

entire week." Very bold thing to say at Level Up with 60 plus speakers, especially

Chris Dillon: 01:05:38

when you're debuting at the conference.

Chris Dillon: 01:05:41

And I know a lot of the team were in the back of the room.

Chris Dillon: 01:05:43

I didn't know this at the time, but I know a lot of the team were

Chris Dillon: 01:05:45

in the back of the room who wanted to learn more about WhatsApp.

Chris Dillon: 01:05:47

So there were half a dozen or so HighLevel staff members

Chris Dillon: 01:05:50

that came in to watch the talk.

Chris Dillon: 01:05:52

And I've been told that one of them turned around to the other one and went,

Chris Dillon: 01:05:54

"That's a really big sentence." By the end of it, I had, on average, everybody

Chris Dillon: 01:05:59

in the room had replied to me six times.

Chris Dillon: 01:06:01

They'd pressed the funny hair button at the start.

Chris Dillon: 01:06:05

They sent me the word slides.

Chris Dillon: 01:06:07

As I said, in that message, there is a button that says, "Access super secret

Chris Dillon: 01:06:10

sexy photo." Everyone presses that button,

Vit Muller: 01:06:14

Of

Chris Dillon: 01:06:14

because of course you access the

Vit Muller: 01:06:16

Curiosity.

Chris Dillon: 01:06:17

which by the way, just calls you a pervert.

Chris Dillon: 01:06:19

That's all it does.

Chris Dillon: 01:06:20

You send me the word, send me the word plan, which is a, customer journey

Chris Dillon: 01:06:23

guide that I give away to everybody.

Chris Dillon: 01:06:25

they can… I don't wanna swear on the podcast, but they can tell me to F off in

Chris Dillon: 01:06:28

the chat, and it will send them a photo.

Chris Dillon: 01:06:31

And then at the end of it, they can send me the word meeting, or if I've got an

Chris Dillon: 01:06:34

offer, they send me that word, whatever.

Chris Dillon: 01:06:35

I don't do that as much at the Level Up talks.

Chris Dillon: 01:06:37

But by the end of it, I've got them engaging multiple times.

Chris Dillon: 01:06:42

And I, so I said this in the talk, and then at the end of it, the same person who

Chris Dillon: 01:06:45

said that turned around to me and went, "He was right." And a few weeks later, I

Chris Dillon: 01:06:48

got asked if I'd be interested in speaking in Manila and India, and at the time

Chris Dillon: 01:06:51

they were planning one in Mexico as well.

Chris Dillon: 01:06:53

I had started having that conversation really soon after Level Up, because that

Chris Dillon: 01:06:57

talk was the most engaging interactive talk out of the, the whole week.

Chris Dillon: 01:07:02

And I do it because I wanna kinda show off and I wanna do some things while

Chris Dillon: 01:07:06

I'm there, but also I'm there standing and saying, "You need to generate

Chris Dillon: 01:07:10

more conversations with people by getting them to engage and interact.

Chris Dillon: 01:07:13

And I've stood on stage in front of you for the last 45 minutes, and I've done

Chris Dillon: 01:07:16

exactly what I'm telling you to do.

Chris Dillon: 01:07:18

And none of you have found it difficult, and none of you have had to try and

Chris Dillon: 01:07:21

learn something new, as in to do the things that I'm asking you for.

Chris Dillon: 01:07:25

Yet all of you have done it, and none of you are doing it for your customers."

Vit Muller: 01:07:29

This is one of my most favorite forms of marketing.

Vit Muller: 01:07:31

When I see somebody who is presenting and he's promising something, but

Vit Muller: 01:07:36

he's not just, promising something that, they might experience later.

Vit Muller: 01:07:40

They're experiencing what has been… The offer is the experience at the same time.

Vit Muller: 01:07:45

It's like, it just makes it so bulletproof.

Vit Muller: 01:07:48

There's there's no objections to that after that.

Vit Muller: 01:07:50

It's yeah, okay, if I've just experienced this is awesome.

Vit Muller: 01:07:53

how do I do that for my business, basically, at that point?

Vit Muller: 01:07:56

And it works so well.

Vit Muller: 01:07:57

You could use it for, in so many different channels, but I think in person, doing a

Vit Muller: 01:08:03

little mini events in their local towns and bringing, inviting business owners in,

Vit Muller: 01:08:07

especially these days, a lot of business owners, they wanna learn about AI or they

Vit Muller: 01:08:11

lear- you know, learn about this and that.

Vit Muller: 01:08:13

You bring them in for a free event, now you've got a bit of an audience.

Vit Muller: 01:08:16

Yeah, what a great way to showcase that.

Vit Muller: 01:08:19

I love it.

Vit Muller: 01:08:20

That's brilliant.

Vit Muller: 01:08:20

Now you of course, you have a program for fellow agency owners who want to apply

Vit Muller: 01:08:25

this strategy and learn the ins and outs.

Vit Muller: 01:08:28

We've talked about it before the podcast, and we've put together a bit

Vit Muller: 01:08:31

of a, a bit of a offer for you guys.

Vit Muller: 01:08:33

But, do you wanna break it down, explain, what it entails, what's included and

Chris Dillon: 01:08:38

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:08:38

it's all about?

Chris Dillon: 01:08:39

so last year when I was at Level Up, I realized like most of my work

Chris Dillon: 01:08:43

prior to speaking on the stages at Level Up has always been aimed at the customer.

Chris Dillon: 01:08:47

I've got an agency, I bring businesses in and sort of lay out what they do and

Chris Dillon: 01:08:51

very often provide HighLevel to them.

Chris Dillon: 01:08:53

And I realized that a lot of that package would benefit agency owners,

Chris Dillon: 01:08:57

but the mar- vast majority doesn't.

Chris Dillon: 01:08:58

Agency owners don't need HighLevel for the year.

Chris Dillon: 01:09:00

They don't need certain elements of it.

Chris Dillon: 01:09:03

I got together with some agency owners in the UK about six months ago and

Chris Dillon: 01:09:07

essentially said, "Look, I know I've got stuff that I think will benefit

Chris Dillon: 01:09:10

agency owners. What do you want as an agency owner on the WhatsApp side

Chris Dillon: 01:09:15

to get the understanding of it?"

Chris Dillon: 01:09:17

And that kind of culminated into a WhatsApp intensive program that I

Chris Dillon: 01:09:20

have, which has a direct onboarding to set up the WhatsApp properly, but

Chris Dillon: 01:09:26

while we're setting it up, teaching them how to onboard other people as

Chris Dillon: 01:09:29

well, so that they can go and put that into how they manage their clients

Chris Dillon: 01:09:34

and teach and train on that side.

Chris Dillon: 01:09:36

Six private sessions with me where I sit down and a lot of it is more

Chris Dillon: 01:09:40

strategic than it is technical, 'cause they also get access to the HighLevel

Chris Dillon: 01:09:44

course and access to a video vault that I've created, which has the video that

Chris Dillon: 01:09:48

I pretended that inbound inquiry one.

Chris Dillon: 01:09:51

Basically all of the videos that I would recommend putting into a sequence for

Chris Dillon: 01:09:54

the vast majority of businesses, and that's being added to every time we're

Chris Dillon: 01:09:58

filming new ones and putting it in there.

Chris Dillon: 01:10:00

So that

Vit Muller: 01:10:01

an example so that they know what sort of video they need to record,

Chris Dillon: 01:10:04

Yeah, and I'll point out there are certain things that

Chris Dillon: 01:10:06

I'm doing in there deliberately.

Chris Dillon: 01:10:07

So I will always recommend you framing what your end fees are and how I

Chris Dillon: 01:10:12

would recommend you frame your fees.

Chris Dillon: 01:10:13

Instead of saying, "Oh, it's from £99," I would say tell them the most that they

Chris Dillon: 01:10:17

can spend, tell them the least that they can spend, tell them there's a range.

Chris Dillon: 01:10:21

So it would look something like, "Clients will invest anything up to £30,000 to

Chris Dillon: 01:10:26

work with me for the entire year, and I've got online courses that start at £12.

Chris Dillon: 01:10:30

For me to work out where you might fit in there, that's why we'll have a call,

Chris Dillon: 01:10:33

and you may not fit, so we have a call to work that out." That, that's how I would

Chris Dillon: 01:10:37

do the range, because if you do from £12, and my average spend with me is about

Chris Dillon: 01:10:41

6,500, going from 12 to 6,500 is a leap.

Chris Dillon: 01:10:46

But if I've told you 30,000 is the top, six and a half grand seems like a bargain.

Vit Muller: 01:10:51

Yeah

Chris Dillon: 01:10:51

McDonald's do it all the time, but… So there are things

Chris Dillon: 01:10:54

in that video vault where it's not just the videos, but also telling

Chris Dillon: 01:10:58

you why I'm doing this at a certain stage and why that's happening.

Chris Dillon: 01:11:01

So y- and then, for the 90 days that the intensive course runs over, I've

Chris Dillon: 01:11:06

got direct support with me and the team.

Chris Dillon: 01:11:08

So if at any point we set up a WhatsApp group, if any of my clients say, "Chris,

Chris Dillon: 01:11:12

I'm going to level up this month.

Chris Dillon: 01:11:14

What would be your one, two, and three strategy to get the most out of it

Chris Dillon: 01:11:17

from a WhatsApp side?" "Brilliant.

Chris Dillon: 01:11:19

Do this, and this.

Chris Dillon: 01:11:20

Get your phone case, do that sorted." All the stuff that we've talked now,

Chris Dillon: 01:11:24

because the technicalities are handled by the course and everything else.

Chris Dillon: 01:11:27

So yeah, that's on offer for agency owners when I'm in the States.

Chris Dillon: 01:11:32

It is, once I leave the States on the 31st of October, that offer is gonna

Chris Dillon: 01:11:36

be… it's gonna go up to its full price.

Chris Dillon: 01:11:39

But for people that are listening on, it's 50% off.

Chris Dillon: 01:11:41

So instead of it being in pounds 2,000, it is in pounds 1,000.

Chris Dillon: 01:11:47

In US dollars, that works out as about $1,200, 12, $1,300.

Vit Muller: 01:11:51

Good.

Vit Muller: 01:11:51

That's a great offer.

Vit Muller: 01:11:52

Guys, if you've been listening up to this point, we've been talking about

Vit Muller: 01:11:56

WhatsApp, why it works, how it works, how to implement it in, in, in as a framework.

Vit Muller: 01:12:03

at this point, I mean, for me, I'm sold.

Vit Muller: 01:12:06

I mean, it's a no-brainer.

Vit Muller: 01:12:07

I mean, I'm definitely gonna be implementing WhatsApp in my

Vit Muller: 01:12:09

business, especially if I want to enter those type of countries.

Vit Muller: 01:12:13

I have now relocated from Australia to Europe.

Vit Muller: 01:12:16

Europe is now my turf, so it just makes more sense.

Vit Muller: 01:12:21

so for me it makes a no-brainer, and I hope that if you guys have

Vit Muller: 01:12:23

been listening, taking notes, that, it makes total sense to you.

Vit Muller: 01:12:26

If you'd like to learn more about, what Chris is offering and apply and take

Vit Muller: 01:12:30

advantage of this offer, simply head over to highlevelexperience.com/chrisdillon.

Vit Muller: 01:12:37

And you can find out more about the offer on that same page.

Vit Muller: 01:12:40

If you scroll below the fold, you can also learn about some of our sponsors

Vit Muller: 01:12:44

of this show and what their offers are.

Vit Muller: 01:12:46

so definitely check it out.

Vit Muller: 01:12:48

You've got nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Vit Muller: 01:12:49

Chris, we are at the end of the show.

Vit Muller: 01:12:52

Thank you so much for jumping on this podcast with me and sharing

Vit Muller: 01:12:56

what's been working for you.

Vit Muller: 01:12:58

every week I interview somebody, there's always a nugget of something applicable,

Vit Muller: 01:13:03

something that people can apply.

Vit Muller: 01:13:04

I've been working on something, I haven't released it yet, but

Vit Muller: 01:13:08

I've been talking about it.

Vit Muller: 01:13:09

I've basically created an Obsidian brain of every single episode up until now.

Vit Muller: 01:13:16

it's just heavily done by AI, so every single episode, full transcript, fully,

Vit Muller: 01:13:21

analyzed and then broken down into what was the core strategy mentioned

Vit Muller: 01:13:25

on that episode, how can you apply that, who was the guest, what are

Vit Muller: 01:13:29

the peoples mentioned, what was the products mentioned, what other episodes

Vit Muller: 01:13:33

were mentioned in these episodes.

Vit Muller: 01:13:35

I don't know if you've used Obsidian, but it creates like a visual diagram of

Vit Muller: 01:13:39

all the different connections between-- it's like notes, like in your brain.

Vit Muller: 01:13:43

so I created a podcast brain of every episode that we've done and the

Vit Muller: 01:13:46

relationships between everything that's been mentioned as a way to be-- for

Vit Muller: 01:13:51

people, for listeners, to eventually be able to use it, to talk to it through

Vit Muller: 01:13:55

a chat with a bot on the back end that will have full context of it, and it can

Vit Muller: 01:13:59

surface anything that you try and learn.

Vit Muller: 01:14:01

But this brain is highly specific to High Level and on, and every guest

Vit Muller: 01:14:07

that I've had up until this point has been related heavily to High

Vit Muller: 01:14:11

Level vendor or fellow agency owner.

Vit Muller: 01:14:13

So you're gonna be added to that brain now and anybody

Vit Muller: 01:14:16

that's gonna ask about WhatsApp.

Vit Muller: 01:14:18

I gotta work out the kinks, like how do I do it?

Vit Muller: 01:14:20

I'm thinking it's probably just gonna be a simple, a chat on the website

Vit Muller: 01:14:24

that you can just talk to, "Hey, I've got an agency I'm looking at. How do I

Vit Muller: 01:14:27

generate leads?" And it might just, it might ask you some subsequent questions.

Vit Muller: 01:14:31

I don't know.

Vit Muller: 01:14:31

I'll probably do it through CloseBot, and it'll then surface up the episodes

Vit Muller: 01:14:35

that would be great to listen or if you wanna take a shortcut, it

Vit Muller: 01:14:38

might even just give you specific the, the minute of the interview

Vit Muller: 01:14:42

to go and listen and this and that.

Vit Muller: 01:14:43

So something that we're working on the back end.

Chris Dillon: 01:14:45

It's such a good idea.

Chris Dillon: 01:14:47

Such a good idea

Vit Muller: 01:14:48

Thanks.

Vit Muller: 01:14:49

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:14:49

I think it'll be, useful because, w- we've been on this podcast for two years

Vit Muller: 01:14:54

and a bit, and there are episodes, whilst they are, like, two years old, there

Vit Muller: 01:14:59

are certain stuff that is timeless.

Vit Muller: 01:15:01

Do you know what I mean?

Vit Muller: 01:15:01

it'll still be applicable, and I wanna make sure those don't get buried.

Vit Muller: 01:15:05

I wanna make sure that those get surfaced back up.

Vit Muller: 01:15:08

It's also a bit of a strategy to increase listenership more

Vit Muller: 01:15:11

on, remarket all the episodes.

Vit Muller: 01:15:13

So yeah, so that's coming.

Vit Muller: 01:15:15

and you're now part of it, so thank you again, Chris.

Vit Muller: 01:15:17

Thank you for sharing that.

Chris Dillon: 01:15:18

Thank you for inviting me, man

Vit Muller: 01:15:20

Yeah, no, you're welcome, mate.

Vit Muller: 01:15:21

I don't know.

Vit Muller: 01:15:22

Yeah, I wish I was there at the l- LevelUp, but, hopefully next year

Chris Dillon: 01:15:25

Definitely

Vit Muller: 01:15:26

Chris, if there's anything you'd like to leave, like last piece of

Vit Muller: 01:15:29

parting advice for the guys listening, now would be a good time to do it

Chris Dillon: 01:15:32

Last piece of advice I normally give is that your prospects,

Chris Dillon: 01:15:35

leads, customers are thinking about you a lot less than you think they are.

Chris Dillon: 01:15:39

So if you think you're gonna be bugging them by reaching

Chris Dillon: 01:15:41

out again, you probably won't.

Chris Dillon: 01:15:43

Nine times out of 10 when we reach out to somebody that's a good fit, they come

Chris Dillon: 01:15:47

back to us and apologize for not coming back to us the first time, and they

Vit Muller: 01:15:50

Brilliant.

Vit Muller: 01:15:50

Can you just repeat those two questions again?

Chris Dillon: 01:15:53

Two questions are: Do you genuinely believe that if

Chris Dillon: 01:15:57

somebody works with you, they will have an undeniably positive impact

Chris Dillon: 01:16:01

on their life and/or business?

Chris Dillon: 01:16:03

And if the answer is yes, do you think you not reaching out to them

Chris Dillon: 01:16:07

is making it easier or harder for them to get that positive impact?

Vit Muller: 01:16:10

Brilliant.

Vit Muller: 01:16:11

I'm gonna quote that.

Vit Muller: 01:16:12

Thank you so much, Chris.

Vit Muller: 01:16:14

Thank you so much.

Vit Muller: 01:16:14

Thank you guys as well.

Vit Muller: 01:16:15

Thank you for listening to today's episode on the HighLevel Experience.

Vit Muller: 01:16:18

If you've enjoyed today's episode, then please share it with your fellow agency

Vit Muller: 01:16:22

mates and other HighLevelers that you think would also benefit from listening.

Vit Muller: 01:16:25

For show notes, links, and extra tips to help you grow your agency

Vit Muller: 01:16:29

or your SaaS with HighLevel, please go to highlevelexperience.com.

Vit Muller: 01:16:32

Thank you, and have a great rest of your day, everybody.