Vit Muller: 00:00:00

how do you define, the balance between token usage?

Vit Muller: 00:00:04

is it worth it?

Vit Muller: 00:00:05

When is it not worth it?

Vit Muller: 00:00:06

And how do you manage it?

Ali Parandeh: 00:00:07

basically what you need to know is there i-- you need

Ali Parandeh: 00:00:10

to know when to use each model.

Ali Parandeh: 00:00:12

Each one increases in terms of reasoning capability and also in

Ali Parandeh: 00:00:14

terms of how much their token cost.

Vit Muller: 00:00:16

I've also seen use cases where you have one agent

Vit Muller: 00:00:19

that's the orchestrator, and that one decides which model, which

Vit Muller: 00:00:23

sub-agent to use based on a task.

Vit Muller: 00:00:25

So how do you find that

Ali Parandeh: 00:00:28

from my understanding, the only model that can create sub-agents is

Vit Muller: 00:00:30

AI is so powerful, like it'd be crazy not to use it for leverage.

Vit Muller: 00:00:34

But at the same time, right, like we gotta make sure that the work is quality.

Vit Muller: 00:00:37

how would you work around that?

Ali Parandeh: 00:00:39

what I would say is do not ban your staff from not using AI

Ali Parandeh: 00:00:42

that's basically how you end up with shadow AI deployments, where staff would

Ali Parandeh: 00:00:46

just use their personal ChatGPT and put your company staff data into it.

Vit Muller: 00:00:50

I know you've worked with the enterprise, but you've done some unique

Vit Muller: 00:00:53

work with the, European Aerospace Agency.

Vit Muller: 00:00:56

how did you get into, the area that you work in?

Ali Parandeh: 00:00:59

half of my career essentially has been in engineering.

Ali Parandeh: 00:01:02

The other half has been in AI.

Vit Muller: 00:01:08

Hello, everybody.

Vit Muller: 00:01:08

Welcome to another episode on the HighLevel Experience Podcast.

Vit Muller: 00:01:14

Our guest today brings a slightly different perspective to the show.

Vit Muller: 00:01:18

He's not coming from the usual HighLevel agency background, but

Vit Muller: 00:01:21

that's exactly why I think this conversation will be valuable.

Vit Muller: 00:01:25

He's a chartered engineer, AI consultant, trainer, and author who

Vit Muller: 00:01:29

works with engineering organizations on moving AI from experimentation

Vit Muller: 00:01:35

into real operational use.

Vit Muller: 00:01:38

and what I find interesting is that his role is not just about, let's plug ChatGPT

Vit Muller: 00:01:43

into a workflow and see what happens.

Vit Muller: 00:01:45

He works in environments where accuracy, governance, data control, documentation,

Vit Muller: 00:01:51

safety, and trust really matter.

Vit Muller: 00:01:53

He's led AI deployments for organizations including the European Space Agency, rail,

Vit Muller: 00:02:00

manufacturing, infrastructure, and, other technical sectors where AI can create a

Vit Muller: 00:02:05

lot of efficiency, but where getting it wrong can also create serious problems.

Vit Muller: 00:02:11

He's also the founder of Build Your AI, where he helps teams identify practical AI

Vit Muller: 00:02:17

use cases, build internal capability, and put better processes around AI adoption.

Vit Muller: 00:02:24

So today, I want to unpack what agency owners, SaaSpreneurs, and small business

Vit Muller: 00:02:30

operators can learn from that more structured engineering approach to AI.

Vit Muller: 00:02:35

How do we identify better use cases?

Vit Muller: 00:02:37

How do we stop AI from becoming just another shiny tool?

Vit Muller: 00:02:41

How do we build systems that save time, improve quality, and

Vit Muller: 00:02:47

actually pass internal checks?

Vit Muller: 00:02:49

And how do we help businesses adopt AI in a way that is useful,

Vit Muller: 00:02:55

safe, and commercially practical?

Vit Muller: 00:02:58

Please welcome to the show, Ali Parandeh.

Ali Parandeh: 00:03:07

Amazing.

Ali Parandeh: 00:03:07

Thank you so much, Vit, for the introduction.

Ali Parandeh: 00:03:10

It was, ma- excellent, amazing.

Ali Parandeh: 00:03:12

But yeah, I'm happy here to answer any questions you might have and, definitely

Ali Parandeh: 00:03:17

we can start with talking about where do you even find AI use cases?

Ali Parandeh: 00:03:21

How do you find what's a good use case?

Ali Parandeh: 00:03:23

where do you go to find them?

Ali Parandeh: 00:03:25

How do you actually sit down and brainstorm ideas?

Ali Parandeh: 00:03:27

So definitely, something we'll be interested to talk

Ali Parandeh: 00:03:30

about as well in that area.

Vit Muller: 00:03:32

Yeah, definitely.

Vit Muller: 00:03:33

Let's dive right in.

Vit Muller: 00:03:35

Use cases is important because, AI can be technical, from-- for us HighLevelers.

Vit Muller: 00:03:41

I don't know how much you know about HighLevel actually whilst I got

Ali Parandeh: 00:03:44

Feel free to give an introduction.

Ali Parandeh: 00:03:45

There might be people, there might be listeners as well who are not familiar

Vit Muller: 00:03:49

Well, there you go.

Vit Muller: 00:03:49

That's an interesting one.

Vit Muller: 00:03:50

Yeah, so what HighLevel is, it's an all-in-one sales and marketing CRM

Vit Muller: 00:03:55

founded, back in 2018 by a marketing agency that was, fulfillment,

Vit Muller: 00:03:59

campaigns, projects for clients always, required, patching up different

Vit Muller: 00:04:04

things together, Zapier and all that.

Vit Muller: 00:04:07

And with every project, it just became insane to manage all that.

Vit Muller: 00:04:10

So they set to build something internal for that use case, and I'm just

Vit Muller: 00:04:15

re-regurgitating what, Robin Alex, one of the founders, he w- he was on the show.

Vit Muller: 00:04:20

he explained the story.

Vit Muller: 00:04:21

so they built something that combined, two-way SMS marketing, CRM,

Vit Muller: 00:04:26

omni-channel inbox, couple other things that back then weren't that common.

Vit Muller: 00:04:31

I mean, there was big giants like HubSpot and Salesforce and all those,

Vit Muller: 00:04:34

but they've come up with something pretty amazing and before you know it, other

Vit Muller: 00:04:38

agencies were like, "We want to use too.

Vit Muller: 00:04:40

We want to use it too." So long story short, where we are now is HighLevel

Vit Muller: 00:04:44

is a platform that you pay a license, you can white label it, you can use

Vit Muller: 00:04:49

it for your agency, and you can create unlimited subaccounts and, each subaccount

Vit Muller: 00:04:54

being one of your clients, and you can either, not give them access to it and

Vit Muller: 00:04:57

just purely use it as a way to build campaigns, plug in Facebook lead ads

Vit Muller: 00:05:03

into it, nurture, all that good stuff.

Vit Muller: 00:05:06

Or you can actually do a SaaS model where you sell it to other

Vit Muller: 00:05:10

businesses with a s- with a markup.

Vit Muller: 00:05:13

you can even rebill on things like email, SMS, phone calls, AI, a lot of it.

Vit Muller: 00:05:19

so think about it like If you could consolidate all of the different

Vit Muller: 00:05:23

subscriptions that typical business owners have, maybe they've got email marketing

Vit Muller: 00:05:28

through MailChimp, they have, Twilio for phone and SMS, they have something else.

Vit Muller: 00:05:33

They're paying all these subscriptions separately and are using platforms

Vit Muller: 00:05:38

that are not, integrated.

Vit Muller: 00:05:40

And the only way to integrate them is use Zapier and stuff like

Vit Muller: 00:05:43

that, and that's still painful.

Vit Muller: 00:05:45

But you don't really have a centralized place.

Vit Muller: 00:05:47

So HighLevel is the solution.

Vit Muller: 00:05:48

HighLevel, I'm a big HighLevel nerd, been using it for the last six years.

Vit Muller: 00:05:52

we sell it through our own agency called Stand Out From The Pack to small local

Vit Muller: 00:05:55

business, medium, small and medium-sized businesses, mostly in Australia.

Vit Muller: 00:06:00

And and this podcast, it's a culmination of just loving the platform, being a big

Vit Muller: 00:06:05

nerd, and hanging out with other people that are using it and sharing successful

Vit Muller: 00:06:09

stories, strategies, what works.

Vit Muller: 00:06:13

so it's, pretty unique to have you here as somebody that's not a HighLeveler, yet

Vit Muller: 00:06:19

very related to what we all do because especially with AI being such a big thing

Vit Muller: 00:06:25

now, and every day just keeps innovating, keeps evolving every day by day, right?

Vit Muller: 00:06:31

I mean, Gemini, Mythos, just, all that, it's just nuts.

Vit Muller: 00:06:35

so when I was looking at your LinkedIn profile and I was looking at, your

Vit Muller: 00:06:39

expertise and where you come from, it was pretty interesting to me, because

Vit Muller: 00:06:45

what I saw was, an engineer, it's very technical type of, type of career that you

Vit Muller: 00:06:51

had based on, again, what I've observed.

Vit Muller: 00:06:54

And One repeated topic that I saw in some of your posts was regarding,

Vit Muller: 00:07:02

safety, compliance, redundancies, working in the enterprise sector where

Vit Muller: 00:07:08

these things are really important.

Vit Muller: 00:07:10

And us-- And then bringing it back in, in my head, like, how

Vit Muller: 00:07:14

does that relate to what we do?

Vit Muller: 00:07:16

We help smaller businesses, small to medium sized businesses.

Vit Muller: 00:07:20

But I think all that around compliance and, trust and all that stuff, I think

Vit Muller: 00:07:25

it's gonna be more and more important because the industry is really maturing.

Vit Muller: 00:07:30

AI is no longer just this, it just, it just got out of the box that

Vit Muller: 00:07:34

was like, four years ago, ChatGPT, everybody's like: "Wow, that's awesome."

Vit Muller: 00:07:37

But now I'm seeing this shift where it's like it's really maturing

Vit Muller: 00:07:42

and there are more requirements.

Vit Muller: 00:07:44

It's no longer talking to businesses and they're like: "What is AI?" Or,

Vit Muller: 00:07:47

"How do I even use it?" Now it's like: "Yeah, we use it or we want to use it.

Vit Muller: 00:07:51

We know what it does, but we want to make sure, we want to make sure that we're

Vit Muller: 00:07:55

safe and that it's not me- super expensive because…" So anyway, I don't want to

Vit Muller: 00:08:01

steal your thunder, but kind of like just giving a bit of a backstory to why you're

Vit Muller: 00:08:05

here to the guys who are listening and why it's-- why I think it's going to be

Vit Muller: 00:08:11

beneficial for you guys to continue to listen what we're about to dive into.

Ali Parandeh: 00:08:16

No, sounds good.

Ali Parandeh: 00:08:17

You're, you are definitely right.

Ali Parandeh: 00:08:18

It is getting to a stage where a lot of enterprises are now

Ali Parandeh: 00:08:21

starting to play with it.

Ali Parandeh: 00:08:22

Some of them have successfully started adopting it to a stage, and

Ali Parandeh: 00:08:27

there are still some of them who are still early in their journey.

Ali Parandeh: 00:08:30

Like what they're doing is maybe get some Copilot licenses, and that's their AI

Ali Parandeh: 00:08:35

adoption in their face, in their heads.

Ali Parandeh: 00:08:37

And, still the employees have to go and start requesting these licenses.

Ali Parandeh: 00:08:42

And they're not really getting into more advanced tools like, I don't know,

Ali Parandeh: 00:08:46

Hicksfield and Claude or any of those other subscriptions where small agencies

Ali Parandeh: 00:08:51

and small companies have that pace and speed when it comes to AI adoption

Ali Parandeh: 00:08:54

and start using those specific skills.

Ali Parandeh: 00:08:57

And the main driver is with big enterprise, they're way slower.

Ali Parandeh: 00:09:00

They need to want to have all their AI policies in place and make sure

Ali Parandeh: 00:09:05

that it's safe, their data is safe, it's private, it's not going to

Ali Parandeh: 00:09:09

random servers around the world.

Ali Parandeh: 00:09:11

And those things kind of slows them down.

Ali Parandeh: 00:09:15

But it means that also that they are s- they are more articulated than you think.

Ali Parandeh: 00:09:19

They have more, understanding of what AI is and where it's used.

Ali Parandeh: 00:09:24

but in some areas, what they're doing mostly with it is summarizing

Ali Parandeh: 00:09:27

emails and summarizing documents.

Ali Parandeh: 00:09:30

that's the use case that they're meddling with some of them.

Ali Parandeh: 00:09:33

Whereas others are a bit more advanced.

Ali Parandeh: 00:09:35

Others are like even building their own bespoke models on

Ali Parandeh: 00:09:37

top of their own datasets.

Ali Parandeh: 00:09:39

Like they're doing machine learning on top of this data, which is a way,

Ali Parandeh: 00:09:42

way more advanced use case when it comes to using AI rather than just

Ali Parandeh: 00:09:45

using Copilot or ChatGPT or Claude.

Ali Parandeh: 00:09:48

But what I've seen with more smaller enterprises, smaller companies, especially

Ali Parandeh: 00:09:52

the ones that are more tech-savvy, they're doing a lot more work with Claude.

Ali Parandeh: 00:09:55

Claude subscription, especially because it can code, it can do

Ali Parandeh: 00:09:58

design, it can do all of those things.

Ali Parandeh: 00:10:00

for agencies and for, smaller enterprises, Claude and ChatGPT Plus, like the team

Ali Parandeh: 00:10:05

enterprise version, are essentially their, their go-to digital brain and

Ali Parandeh: 00:10:10

AI system when it comes to all of these automations and innovations when

Ali Parandeh: 00:10:14

it comes to, adoption, AI adoption.

Ali Parandeh: 00:10:17

Whereas bigger enterprises were mostly Co-Pilot, so Copilot Enterprise and

Ali Parandeh: 00:10:21

Copilot, and some of them you would see that they would go with these enterprises

Ali Parandeh: 00:10:25

around, Anthropic Claude or ChatGPT

Vit Muller: 00:10:28

So it's gonna be really interesting, 'cause you've hinted on it.

Vit Muller: 00:10:30

Like us smaller agencies, we are a lot more nimble with this stuff.

Vit Muller: 00:10:36

We are experimenting a lot more, and oftentimes we are using

Vit Muller: 00:10:40

more cutting-edge stuff than the enterprise sector might, right?

Vit Muller: 00:10:45

So it's giving us a competitive advantage and the clients that we help the same

Ali Parandeh: 00:10:50

Exactly

Vit Muller: 00:10:52

You know, HighLevel just announced last week a native MCP with

Vit Muller: 00:10:57

Claude Code so that you can get meth- me- methods directly into HighLevel.

Vit Muller: 00:11:02

And you

Vit Muller: 00:11:03

think

Ali Parandeh: 00:11:03

I was gonna ask you about that actually.

Ali Parandeh: 00:11:05

can I connect my Claude agent to it and talk to the HighLevel directly?

Vit Muller: 00:11:08

Anything you want.

Vit Muller: 00:11:09

Well, I mean, HighLevel has a native function called

Vit Muller: 00:11:11

Ask AI, so that's built in.

Vit Muller: 00:11:14

You just talk to it.

Vit Muller: 00:11:15

But you can also connect it to your own Claude code through the

Vit Muller: 00:11:18

NCP and it does anything you want.

Vit Muller: 00:11:21

"Hey, go through the CRM and surface up the 20 contacts that are most likely,

Vit Muller: 00:11:26

to close in the next 30 days based on the history of, based on data."

Ali Parandeh: 00:11:32

that is I think where we're going with 2026, 2027 is

Ali Parandeh: 00:11:35

that people don't really like to go into UIs anymore and click around.

Ali Parandeh: 00:11:39

They wanna just talk to the AI assistant, and AI assistant tal- uses the MCP to

Ali Parandeh: 00:11:44

talk to the systems under the hood.

Ali Parandeh: 00:11:46

Especially when you're doing like weekly alignments or, monthly alignments or

Ali Parandeh: 00:11:49

doing quarterly reviews and stuff.

Ali Parandeh: 00:11:51

Instead of going into a UI and clicking around, you just open a chat and

Ali Parandeh: 00:11:55

say, "Run this skill. Run the weekly alignment skill for me, and fetch

Ali Parandeh: 00:11:59

the information for me, and let's do talk about it and analyze it."

Vit Muller: 00:12:03

Yeah.

Ali Parandeh: 00:12:04

And write back to the system

Vit Muller: 00:12:06

And more like anything's possible really.

Vit Muller: 00:12:07

Like I've-- The other day I was like looking at adoption.

Vit Muller: 00:12:12

do we improve adoption for our customers who sign up through our

Vit Muller: 00:12:16

white labels that they can adopt the HighLevel more effectively?

Vit Muller: 00:12:20

It's a big, it's a big thing for us.

Vit Muller: 00:12:22

It's a big thing that I'm seeing across the, the SaaS industry, HighLevel

Vit Muller: 00:12:25

SaaS industry, that, you get a smaller business, a new customer who are going

Vit Muller: 00:12:30

through this digital transformation, and they access the account, and then

Vit Muller: 00:12:33

suddenly there's there's so much, right?

Vit Muller: 00:12:35

It's like I said, it's all in one sales and marketing.

Vit Muller: 00:12:40

It's got all the tool sets.

Vit Muller: 00:12:41

CRM, you can build funnels, you can do voice AI, you can

Vit Muller: 00:12:44

do anything you can think of.

Vit Muller: 00:12:46

Really robust automation workflows, anything.

Vit Muller: 00:12:49

And then they get in and they get overwhelmed.

Vit Muller: 00:12:52

So adoption for us is always like, how do we, how do we make sure that

Vit Muller: 00:12:56

they have a great experience, they get wins quickly so that, so they

Vit Muller: 00:13:04

can really quickly see the return?

Vit Muller: 00:13:05

Because the risk is, whilst it's an amazing toolbox with a lot of tools and

Vit Muller: 00:13:11

it can really do anything, is that you can get analysis paralysis and you don't use

Vit Muller: 00:13:17

it for anything, and then you just look at it as a subscription cost and you cancel.

Vit Muller: 00:13:22

doesn't really happen for us, touch wood, but you know, some

Vit Muller: 00:13:26

churn still happens over time, and so adoption is really important.

Vit Muller: 00:13:30

And with this, with Ask AI, with ability to… That was what I was

Vit Muller: 00:13:35

leaning into here the other day.

Vit Muller: 00:13:36

I was, I was talking to it and I said, "Look, I want to build a

Vit Muller: 00:13:39

new course, that's purely about adoption for new users," picking,

Vit Muller: 00:13:44

five most easy turnkey features that business can start using right away.

Vit Muller: 00:13:49

One of them being reputation management, just by connecting your

Vit Muller: 00:13:52

Google Workspace, sorry, your Google Business listing and being able to

Vit Muller: 00:13:56

send out review requests and then have AI to respond to reviews for you.

Vit Muller: 00:13:59

And then if it's a five-star to automatically schedule

Vit Muller: 00:14:02

and post in your socials.

Vit Muller: 00:14:03

that's one of those like really easy ones.

Vit Muller: 00:14:07

But even then, businesses don't know about it, right?

Vit Muller: 00:14:09

So I just spoke to Ask AI.

Vit Muller: 00:14:11

It's hey, so this is one of them and, can you think of three other features

Vit Muller: 00:14:16

that are really like off the box, like off the shelf, but really work well

Vit Muller: 00:14:20

really quickly and build me a course.

Vit Muller: 00:14:23

And so in HighLevel, there is a, there's a section called Memberships, and inside

Vit Muller: 00:14:26

Memberships you can create your own dedicated customer portal that they can

Vit Muller: 00:14:30

log into, and in the portal they can access courses, they can access a private

Vit Muller: 00:14:35

community, they can access, um- billing, if you have that turned on, all that.

Vit Muller: 00:14:42

And it did it.

Vit Muller: 00:14:42

It just, because AskAI is fully connected with all the other feature sets of

Vit Muller: 00:14:46

HighLevel, it just went and did it.

Vit Muller: 00:14:49

And then actually it created lessons.

Vit Muller: 00:14:51

It created, categories of the whole course, descriptions of the lessons.

Vit Muller: 00:14:55

The only thing that was left for me to do was just there's a placeholder

Vit Muller: 00:15:00

where you can upload the videos

Ali Parandeh: 00:15:01

So because you had the MCP connector connected, the

Ali Parandeh: 00:15:05

AI assistant could use the MCP connector to, create those resources

Ali Parandeh: 00:15:09

in the tool into HighLevel.

Ali Parandeh: 00:15:12

And all you had to do is go back and forth.

Ali Parandeh: 00:15:13

So your work, your workflow as a user would be to just open a chat and say,

Ali Parandeh: 00:15:17

I'm thinking of creating this course.

Ali Parandeh: 00:15:20

Create the community space for me and add these courses in and add these

Ali Parandeh: 00:15:23

lessons." And then you just basically go back and forth in the chat, and you

Ali Parandeh: 00:15:27

go work through your course content, your lessons, all inside the chat, and

Ali Parandeh: 00:15:32

something like Claude keeps pushing the information into the platform instead

Ali Parandeh: 00:15:37

of like you having to suddenly learn the entire user interface compared to being

Ali Parandeh: 00:15:42

in a, in a similar interface, which is just your chat interface inside Claude.

Ali Parandeh: 00:15:47

And I think that's basically the trend that's gonna be, that's gonna

Ali Parandeh: 00:15:50

be upcoming inside 2027, 2026 is experience of users with software.

Ali Parandeh: 00:15:56

it's not gonna be-- You don't have to sit down and learn user interfaces anymore.

Ali Parandeh: 00:15:59

You can just connect the MCP.

Ali Parandeh: 00:16:02

The c-- The AI assistants will know how to talk to the different interfaces

Ali Parandeh: 00:16:06

of the platforms to fetch data and manipulate data and create records

Vit Muller: 00:16:12

Yeah, pretty much.

Vit Muller: 00:16:13

I, but, I think the caveat to that is the ability of AI to, to action stuff is

Vit Muller: 00:16:21

all based on a context, and is all based on how clean and organized your CRM is.

Vit Muller: 00:16:26

So for example, if you've got a pipeline full of opportunities inside HighLevel,

Vit Muller: 00:16:32

and it's messy and you haven't really been managing your pipelines, l- keeping it

Vit Muller: 00:16:35

up to date, then HighLevel doesn't know.

Vit Muller: 00:16:39

the AI wouldn't know it.

Vit Muller: 00:16:40

The AI would just, would take that for granted.

Vit Muller: 00:16:42

and then if you ask, "Go through my pipeline and, surface up three

Vit Muller: 00:16:46

biggest opportunities coming up," but if the pipeline is not

Vit Muller: 00:16:50

accurate, it's not gonna work.

Vit Muller: 00:16:51

So I think a combination… I don't know.

Vit Muller: 00:16:53

Like I was gonna say is I think the combination is gonna be having an

Vit Muller: 00:16:57

admin team or s- VIs who are keeping it up to date, who are like a sales

Vit Muller: 00:17:01

team maybe, who are really managing the CRM really well, and they're still

Vit Muller: 00:17:04

leveraging AI too, but keeping the contact records and everything, up to

Vit Muller: 00:17:08

date so that the AI agent component to it w- works with an accurate,

Ali Parandeh: 00:17:14

Yeah, I see what you mean.

Ali Parandeh: 00:17:15

I think, that there is that element of up-- maintaining

Ali Parandeh: 00:17:18

it and upkeep it definitely.

Ali Parandeh: 00:17:20

I think there is also the element of if you don't maintain it, and then

Ali Parandeh: 00:17:24

when it comes to connecting your AI assistant to it, there, there is a

Ali Parandeh: 00:17:27

context rot because of all that missing information or incorrect information

Ali Parandeh: 00:17:32

getting fed into the context of the chat and polluting it, confusing the AI.

Ali Parandeh: 00:17:37

but you can now set schedules.

Ali Parandeh: 00:17:39

There are features in tools like Claude where you can set a timer and

Ali Parandeh: 00:17:44

a scheduled conversation where you-- it runs a cleaning operation for you.

Ali Parandeh: 00:17:49

So it would audit-- It would essentially fetch the information, but with the

Ali Parandeh: 00:17:52

purpose of cleaning the information and flagging, "These records seem out of date.

Ali Parandeh: 00:17:56

Do you want me to clean them for you?" And you used to just say yes to reduce

Ali Parandeh: 00:18:00

the burden of you having to go through or even h-having a whole admin team

Ali Parandeh: 00:18:03

going through, because then AI can just quickly bulk edit or bulk delete

Ali Parandeh: 00:18:08

bunch of records, without you having to go through or an admin person having

Ali Parandeh: 00:18:13

to go through all these different records, finding them and flagging them.

Ali Parandeh: 00:18:16

Especially because when you're looking at different columns, there would be

Ali Parandeh: 00:18:19

elements in there where individual cells might not be enough for you to look at.

Ali Parandeh: 00:18:23

You need to look at the entire row and the context of the entire row to decide

Ali Parandeh: 00:18:26

whether that row needs to be deleted.

Ali Parandeh: 00:18:28

And I think that's what AI is really good at, is to look at the entire row

Ali Parandeh: 00:18:31

across lots of rows, within its context.

Ali Parandeh: 00:18:34

I think some of these models have like context window of 1 million

Ali Parandeh: 00:18:37

tokens, which is about 750,000 words.

Ali Parandeh: 00:18:40

So an encyclopedia worth of words can be fit in there.

Ali Parandeh: 00:18:43

obviously don't wanna fill it up because it increases the chances

Ali Parandeh: 00:18:46

of hallucination, but you do wanna, you can still use this up with, I

Ali Parandeh: 00:18:50

don't know, 200, 300, 400 records.

Ali Parandeh: 00:18:52

I don't think people will have way more, many records in their millions of rows.

Ali Parandeh: 00:18:55

But 300 records is nothing, compared to the context size.

Ali Parandeh: 00:18:59

So you can actually even run periodical conversations on schedule in your

Ali Parandeh: 00:19:04

Claude tool, in Claude Chat or Claude Code, to review the records for

Ali Parandeh: 00:19:09

you and clean them up time to time

Vit Muller: 00:19:10

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:19:10

I think what this has got a cron job, isn't it?

Vit Muller: 00:19:13

setting up these cron jobs

Ali Parandeh: 00:19:14

it under the hood, it does, it does cron jobs, but it is

Ali Parandeh: 00:19:17

abstracted away from you as a user.

Ali Parandeh: 00:19:20

You don't need to know coding or anything like that.

Ali Parandeh: 00:19:22

you just basically in Claude Desktop, you can run scheduled

Ali Parandeh: 00:19:25

triggers, scheduled chats basically.

Ali Parandeh: 00:19:28

Routines, we call them routines.

Ali Parandeh: 00:19:29

You can run weekly routines where on a Friday it creates a chat, fetches the

Ali Parandeh: 00:19:36

last 200 records from HighLevel using the MCP connector, and then runs an

Ali Parandeh: 00:19:42

audit for you based on a checklist.

Ali Parandeh: 00:19:43

You can create a checklist for what it needs to look for.

Ali Parandeh: 00:19:46

And then it would just basically use a human in the loop where it asks you,

Ali Parandeh: 00:19:49

"Oh, these are the records. Do you want me to delete them?" So it wouldn't

Ali Parandeh: 00:19:52

just delete them out of nothing.

Ali Parandeh: 00:19:54

It would have to get the approval from you

Vit Muller: 00:19:56

yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:19:56

it's an interesting area 'cause, I've been, I've been using Victor AI

Vit Muller: 00:20:00

for the last couple of weeks, right?

Vit Muller: 00:20:01

I've got it… You probably heard of it.

Vit Muller: 00:20:03

I've got it connected through Slack, got it connected to a couple of

Vit Muller: 00:20:06

things, and, the token usage, on that particular product is higher.

Vit Muller: 00:20:10

They've got their own markups as well.

Vit Muller: 00:20:12

but it's brilliant product.

Vit Muller: 00:20:13

But, setting up these, these cron jobs, these repeated jobs that it

Vit Muller: 00:20:17

does, is very good because it's like a proactive team member on, on, in

Vit Muller: 00:20:24

your business that you don't always have to instruct to do things.

Vit Muller: 00:20:27

it's really changing.

Vit Muller: 00:20:29

But the-- it's like how do you define, the balance between token usage?

Vit Muller: 00:20:37

is it worth it?

Vit Muller: 00:20:37

When is it not worth it?

Vit Muller: 00:20:39

And how do you manage it?

Vit Muller: 00:20:40

And I think, again, from your perspective and your experience working in the

Vit Muller: 00:20:45

enterprise sector, it's, there's bigger scale and way bigger bills.

Ali Parandeh: 00:20:50

So basically what you need to know is there i-- you need

Ali Parandeh: 00:20:53

to know when to use each model.

Ali Parandeh: 00:20:55

So for instance, I'm gonna just stick with Claude models, but for the simplicity

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:00

that we have Claude Haiku, Claude Sonnet, Claude Opus, and now Claude Fable.

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:05

Right?

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:06

Each one increases in terms of reasoning capability and also in

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:08

terms of how much their token cost.

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:10

Haiku, one million tokens in and out would cost you, I

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:13

don't know, less than a dollar.

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:14

Fable, one million tokens in and out will cost you $60, right?

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:19

So you can see how much it's gonna burn through your credits if you use them.

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:22

Don't go and use Fable to clean up your CRM.

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:26

Use something cheaper.

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:27

So use either a Sonnet or Haiku model because, these are essentially for like

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:31

low te-- low-level mechanical tasks that you just basically give to a junior to do.

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:37

think of your team as a junior, senior, principal and technical director.

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:42

You don't go and give a technical director a spreadsheet and data

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:45

entry task on your team, would you?

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:47

you're paying them hundred thousand pou- hundred thousand pounds

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:50

a year, for instance, right?

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:51

You're not gonna give them data spreadsheet entry work.

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:53

You're gonna give them more strategic level work.

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:55

go come up with a strategy to increase our sales by 20% in the next year.

Ali Parandeh: 00:21:59

Whereas for the junior, like a graduate entry or an intern, you

Ali Parandeh: 00:22:03

would give them a data entry work.

Ali Parandeh: 00:22:05

So I think it's the same thing here.

Ali Parandeh: 00:22:07

if you use-- for enterprise-grade work where we're running

Ali Parandeh: 00:22:10

billions of tokens a day.

Ali Parandeh: 00:22:12

So I've built data processing pipelines for a mortgage enterprise in the US as

Ali Parandeh: 00:22:17

part of my previous roles, where we had to process one billion tokens a day.

Ali Parandeh: 00:22:21

So that's one billion PDFs, data extraction and validation, right?

Ali Parandeh: 00:22:26

Through ChatGPT APIs.

Ali Parandeh: 00:22:28

Now that one is basically you're looking at one encyclopedia

Ali Parandeh: 00:22:31

worth of data processing.

Ali Parandeh: 00:22:34

And, for that one, you're not gonna have to use… I mean, for them,

Ali Parandeh: 00:22:38

the price didn't really matter because they had lots of money.

Ali Parandeh: 00:22:41

But, what you don't wanna do is you don't wanna run it across really

Ali Parandeh: 00:22:43

big models like Opus or, Fable.

Ali Parandeh: 00:22:46

What you wanna do is you wanna run it through smaller models and Haiku.

Ali Parandeh: 00:22:51

So always start with small one, do a small test run and see how good

Ali Parandeh: 00:22:55

it is, and then go up one level.

Ali Parandeh: 00:22:58

Don't always start from the beginning.

Ali Parandeh: 00:22:59

And I think the peop-- mistake people make is for m-most business owners,

Ali Parandeh: 00:23:02

they just basically default on Opus, and then they realize why their

Ali Parandeh: 00:23:06

credits are running out or Fable.

Ali Parandeh: 00:23:08

Like Fable, the only, one of the exercises I did when Fable came out,

Ali Parandeh: 00:23:13

I went and asked Fable, "When should I use you and when should I not use

Ali Parandeh: 00:23:16

you compared to Opus, like 4.8?" And it gave me a really good list.

Ali Parandeh: 00:23:20

Like one of the-- Like if you look at the benchmarks, like the leaderboards

Ali Parandeh: 00:23:24

of how Fable compares to Sonnet and Opus, Fable is really good at spatial

Ali Parandeh: 00:23:29

reasoning and multi-level, which is basically like understanding 3D space.

Vit Muller: 00:23:35

Yeah

Ali Parandeh: 00:23:36

So if you're gonna be working on a 3D model app or you will,

Ali Parandeh: 00:23:39

you have data that's more CAD data, or you have data that's point clouds,

Ali Parandeh: 00:23:43

LiDAR data scans, you wanna like generate tool paths for a manufacturing

Ali Parandeh: 00:23:48

machine like CNC machine, and you want it to be able to understand that, or

Ali Parandeh: 00:23:52

you're, you wanna design a completely new website that's completely like

Ali Parandeh: 00:23:56

im- amazing, interesting design.

Ali Parandeh: 00:23:58

That's when you use Fable.

Ali Parandeh: 00:24:00

Whereas Opus is for more general everyday complex coding tasks.

Ali Parandeh: 00:24:06

and also Fable is really useful if you have a lot of interconnected

Ali Parandeh: 00:24:09

documents that you need to reason over.

Ali Parandeh: 00:24:10

So super complicated logical reasoning stuff, not for, data

Ali Parandeh: 00:24:15

cleaning and 3D, that kind of tasks.

Ali Parandeh: 00:24:18

That's where Fable is good.

Ali Parandeh: 00:24:19

And like when I tried it, like I got Fable to design me, a 3D model of a

Ali Parandeh: 00:24:25

satellite dish just with code, and you could like literally scan it, view it

Ali Parandeh: 00:24:30

in 3D, a 3D model of HVAC unit, and then calculate the, create the code for

Ali Parandeh: 00:24:36

CNC machine that manufactures it, use it, using subtractive manufacturing.

Ali Parandeh: 00:24:40

That kind of stuff we can do with Fable.

Vit Muller: 00:24:42

Yeah, that's brilliant.

Vit Muller: 00:24:43

and so understanding that is critical, but that's also, if you're using it

Vit Muller: 00:24:47

day-to-day and you're, you are the one that's, changing the models.

Vit Muller: 00:24:51

I've also seen use cases where you have one agent that's the orchestrator, and

Vit Muller: 00:24:56

that one decides which model, which sub-agent to use based on a task.

Vit Muller: 00:25:01

So how do you find that

Ali Parandeh: 00:25:03

So from my understanding, the only model that

Ali Parandeh: 00:25:06

can create sub-agents is Fable.

Ali Parandeh: 00:25:08

so one workflow I tried it on is I went to the London Tech Week a few

Ali Parandeh: 00:25:12

weeks ago where I recorded about 40 sessions, like their transcripts, and

Ali Parandeh: 00:25:17

I got Fable-- I set a screenshot of my Notion database to Fable, nothing else.

Ali Parandeh: 00:25:21

And I said, "Go and fetch the, all these records.

Ali Parandeh: 00:25:24

Figure out all the records in the database that's related to this Tech Week, fetch

Ali Parandeh: 00:25:28

all the transcripts and check every claim in every transcript against sources on

Ali Parandeh: 00:25:33

the web, and then create me a infographic, a research report and a, document, like

Ali Parandeh: 00:25:40

a HTML interactive document, with all the sources like showing me like which

Ali Parandeh: 00:25:45

ones, verified, which ones unverified."

Ali Parandeh: 00:25:47

Right?

Ali Parandeh: 00:25:47

So that's the task I ran Fable on.

Ali Parandeh: 00:25:50

and this was like during a workshop I was doing with, one of the

Ali Parandeh: 00:25:52

automotive companies when I was showing them the demonstration.

Ali Parandeh: 00:25:55

What-- Basically, what happened was it took 20 minutes for Fable to finish,

Ali Parandeh: 00:25:58

but what was interesting, Fable created six sub-agents during the process,

Ali Parandeh: 00:26:03

handing off 15 transcripts to each sub-agent to go and check across the web.

Ali Parandeh: 00:26:08

So each sub-agent was doing like 2,000 different data source checks.

Ali Parandeh: 00:26:13

And like they figured out like half-- some of these claims were s- partial.

Ali Parandeh: 00:26:17

It verified about 60% of the claims, and 30% of the claims were unverified.

Ali Parandeh: 00:26:21

So for instance, if one of the claims was saying that, there was this

Ali Parandeh: 00:26:24

cybersecurity incident and the UK economy had a loss of £2 billion, it

Ali Parandeh: 00:26:29

was saying no, it was £2.1 billion.

Vit Muller: 00:26:31

Right

Ali Parandeh: 00:26:32

it did this kind of stuff that was, more sophisticated,

Ali Parandeh: 00:26:35

but they probably burned through a lot of tokens doing that.

Ali Parandeh: 00:26:37

20 minutes

Vit Muller: 00:26:38

And you didn't ask Fable to use, to create those sub a- sub

Ali Parandeh: 00:26:42

no.

Ali Parandeh: 00:26:42

all I said is just go f- go fetch the transcripts.

Ali Parandeh: 00:26:45

Make a bunch of reports and infographics, but check every claim in them

Vit Muller: 00:26:49

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:26:50

That's brilliant.

Vit Muller: 00:26:51

That's, yeah, wow.

Vit Muller: 00:26:53

I mean, Fable is so new, that's, I haven't, had a

Vit Muller: 00:26:55

chance to fully dive into it.

Vit Muller: 00:26:56

I know the US had put a restriction on it, and now they've opened it up

Vit Muller: 00:27:00

again, yeah, it's very impressive

Ali Parandeh: 00:27:01

yeah, I think I did like a, I did I think some,

Ali Parandeh: 00:27:05

when to use Cloud Fable chat.

Ali Parandeh: 00:27:07

let me bring it up.

Ali Parandeh: 00:27:08

So basically, these are the, these are when you wanna use Fable and

Ali Parandeh: 00:27:11

when you don't wanna use Fable.

Ali Parandeh: 00:27:12

So multi-day or multi-hour autonomous runs in cloud code, like if you're doing

Ali Parandeh: 00:27:16

large refactors, migrations, and building like complex features for your apps

Ali Parandeh: 00:27:20

if you're a SaaS owner, SaaS company.

Ali Parandeh: 00:27:22

Complex multi-step implementations where errors compound.

Ali Parandeh: 00:27:26

one-shotting full apps or UI-heavy prototypes, where it can self-criticize

Ali Parandeh: 00:27:30

its own outputs against design.

Ali Parandeh: 00:27:32

So one of the things I did notice what Fable does when I ask it to

Ali Parandeh: 00:27:35

create 3D models is that it would render the model once it creates

Ali Parandeh: 00:27:39

it, because it cannot actually see the models, it's just writing code.

Ali Parandeh: 00:27:42

It renders the model for itself, takes a screenshot of the model from

Ali Parandeh: 00:27:45

different angles, and looks at the screenshot because it can read images in.

Ali Parandeh: 00:27:50

See how crazy it is?

Ali Parandeh: 00:27:51

So it can look at a satellite dish from different angles to see if it

Ali Parandeh: 00:27:53

has modeled it correctly, and then if it hasn't, it goes back and fixes it

Vit Muller: 00:27:58

Wow.

Ali Parandeh: 00:27:59

Like that's the kind of stuff it can do.

Ali Parandeh: 00:28:01

Like it can self-criticize without you having to ask.

Ali Parandeh: 00:28:04

It can check its own work.

Ali Parandeh: 00:28:05

And one of the biggest problems I've seen with enterprises not trusting

Ali Parandeh: 00:28:08

AI is that the AI that they have access to oftentimes can create slop.

Ali Parandeh: 00:28:12

And especially when juniors use it, that slop can then get into the hands

Ali Parandeh: 00:28:16

of customers, which can damage a- any brand, any consultancy brand.

Ali Parandeh: 00:28:21

So if you're agency owner, imagine like sending AI slop reports to,

Ali Parandeh: 00:28:24

customers and they entirely lose their trust and credibility in the process,

Ali Parandeh: 00:28:28

which happened to the big four.

Ali Parandeh: 00:28:29

Like all the big four companies, if you look at the news like PWC, like EY, all

Ali Parandeh: 00:28:35

of these companies got into big troubles because of AI-generated reports they

Ali Parandeh: 00:28:39

sent to governments and stuff, and they had to then cut staff down, because of

Ali Parandeh: 00:28:42

the damage it provi- it, it got to them.

Ali Parandeh: 00:28:45

So

Vit Muller: 00:28:45

those big consulting firms.

Vit Muller: 00:28:47

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:28:47

so what's the workaround?

Vit Muller: 00:28:50

how do you make sure that there is quality?

Vit Muller: 00:28:51

Because you still… I mean, AI is so powerful, like it'd be

Vit Muller: 00:28:54

crazy not to use it for leverage.

Vit Muller: 00:28:56

But at the same time, right, like we gotta make sure that the work is quality.

Vit Muller: 00:29:00

how would you work around that?

Ali Parandeh: 00:29:01

So what I would say is do not ban your staff or yourself from not

Ali Parandeh: 00:29:06

using AI because that's the ultimate place to get-- that's basically how you end up

Ali Parandeh: 00:29:10

with shadow AI deployments, where staff would just use their personal ChatGPT

Ali Parandeh: 00:29:15

and put your company staff data into it.

Ali Parandeh: 00:29:17

if you just ban yourself and staff from using AI, they're just still

Ali Parandeh: 00:29:20

gonna use it, but they're not gonna use your approved AI provider.

Vit Muller: 00:29:24

It's a good point.

Vit Muller: 00:29:25

They wanna be proactive,

Ali Parandeh: 00:29:26

Yeah, so they wanna be productive.

Ali Parandeh: 00:29:27

They know it can be done in a minute.

Ali Parandeh: 00:29:29

They're not gonna be willing to sit there and do it for a week, especially

Ali Parandeh: 00:29:32

if it's like some admin work.

Ali Parandeh: 00:29:34

So the banning AI is not the solution.

Ali Parandeh: 00:29:37

And enterprises try to ban AI and not give people a good tool to use, they will

Ali Parandeh: 00:29:41

end up having to do shadow AI deployments they can't control, where staff will just

Ali Parandeh: 00:29:46

use, email the info to themselves and then put it into their ChatGPT, right?

Ali Parandeh: 00:29:51

the right way to do it is you need to implement AI policies and AI

Ali Parandeh: 00:29:54

processes in your organization.

Ali Parandeh: 00:29:56

So what I mean by that is when I was an eng-- when I was working as an engineering

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:00

firm, engineering consultancy back in the day, this was before all the ChatGPT.

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:04

We had a process called OCRA.

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:06

Have you heard of it?

Vit Muller: 00:30:08

No

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:08

No?

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:09

So it stands for originator, checker, reviewer, and authorizer or approver.

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:14

Each role had specific checklists to follow when a output was

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:19

produced by the originator, right?

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:21

So the originator had a checklist to check through, the, checker had a

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:24

checklist, the reviewer had a checklist, and the authorizer had a checklist.

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:27

And only the documents that have passed through OCRA would have-- would, could go

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:31

to the customer or would go to the client.

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:34

And this was pre-AI.

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:35

This was even like manually drafted documents that could

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:38

have human mistakes in it.

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:40

Now with AI, you could have slop going into documents.

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:43

Like a slop basically means AI content that doesn't really give you any insights.

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:49

it's not consistent with the rest of the document because it's been

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:51

prompted across different chats.

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:53

Different people have prompted AI in differently.

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:56

and the other thing AI has in terms of mistakes, it can hallucinate

Ali Parandeh: 00:30:59

facts, it can hallucinate citations.

Ali Parandeh: 00:31:02

So the big four got into trouble because their citations were hallucinated.

Ali Parandeh: 00:31:06

And it could also use hidden assumptions that are incorrect, that doesn't tell you.

Ali Parandeh: 00:31:13

So they-- it, like it would produce a document with some hidden

Ali Parandeh: 00:31:16

assumptions until you tell it, right?

Ali Parandeh: 00:31:18

two of the prompts you can tell-- try right now with your AI assistant is, ask

Ali Parandeh: 00:31:22

it, "If I eat five hundred kilo calories a day for the next ten day, ten years above

Ali Parandeh: 00:31:28

my calorie limit, how fat am I gonna get?"

Ali Parandeh: 00:31:30

And see what it tells you.

Vit Muller: 00:31:32

Well, let me try that.

Vit Muller: 00:31:33

I'm actually interested in that one.

Vit Muller: 00:31:34

Hang on.

Vit Muller: 00:31:35

500 calories daily, yeah?

Ali Parandeh: 00:31:37

500 calories daily above my calorie limit for the next 10 years

Vit Muller: 00:31:41

If I eat 500 calories daily above my calorie limit for the next 10

Vit Muller: 00:31:49

years, how much more overweight will I be?

Vit Muller: 00:31:52

All right, let me hit go on that one.

Vit Muller: 00:31:54

All right, so I think it… I'm using ChatGPT just,

Ali Parandeh: 00:31:57

it might have gotten better, but if you get anything resembling

Ali Parandeh: 00:32:00

a straight line going all the way to 400 calo- kilograms, that's how you

Ali Parandeh: 00:32:05

know the kind of mistakes it's making.

Ali Parandeh: 00:32:07

Or if the BMI it's giving you goes above a certain limit

Vit Muller: 00:32:11

It's currently just checking through the websites.

Vit Muller: 00:32:12

I've got it on a high model,

Ali Parandeh: 00:32:14

that reduces the chances of mistake.

Ali Parandeh: 00:32:16

But a-another thing you can try, like normally small models would make mistakes

Ali Parandeh: 00:32:21

on this, is I have a car I need to wash.

Ali Parandeh: 00:32:25

The car wash is 50 meters away.

Ali Parandeh: 00:32:26

Should I walk or drive?

Vit Muller: 00:32:28

Nah.

Vit Muller: 00:32:29

yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:32:29

so I've got the return on that one.

Vit Muller: 00:32:31

So it says, "Assuming your calorie limit means you're current maintenance

Vit Muller: 00:32:34

calories, then simple math answer, 500 extra calories per day by 365

Vit Muller: 00:32:40

days by 10 years is 1 million extra calorie- 1,000,800 extra calories." da.

Vit Muller: 00:32:45

"More realistic answer, you probably would not gain 236 kilos.

Vit Muller: 00:32:49

As your body gets heavier, your maintenance calories rise, so the same 500

Vit Muller: 00:32:53

calorie surplus becomes smaller relative to your new body size." yeah, I mean,

Vit Muller: 00:32:58

this is… I think this is pretty good.

Vit Muller: 00:33:01

yeah, I mean,

Ali Parandeh: 00:33:02

It is pretty good

Vit Muller: 00:33:03

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:33:03

by basically, so substance is what we want.

Vit Muller: 00:33:06

We don't want just AI slop.

Vit Muller: 00:33:07

Like even es- like in my c- use case, content for, content marketing, right?

Vit Muller: 00:33:13

Articles, socials, all that.

Vit Muller: 00:33:14

these days, if it's just vanilla, it's like it doesn't really cut

Vit Muller: 00:33:17

through anything, and it doesn't get noticed by people, and it certainly

Vit Muller: 00:33:21

doesn't get noticed, for SEO.

Vit Muller: 00:33:23

Well, that's a whole another conversation, but right?

Ali Parandeh: 00:33:26

what I've heard is AI-written content does have

Ali Parandeh: 00:33:29

efficiency, doesn't have efficacy

Vit Muller: 00:33:32

Yeah, it doesn't have the substance.

Vit Muller: 00:33:33

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:33:34

And then if

Ali Parandeh: 00:33:34

doesn't carry the

Vit Muller: 00:33:35

for substance, that's when the AI can try harder and sometimes

Vit Muller: 00:33:39

can try to please you and hallucinate just to, just for the sake of

Ali Parandeh: 00:33:43

it can mimic you to some extent.

Ali Parandeh: 00:33:45

if you set the styles correctly and you put-- give it enough context, it

Ali Parandeh: 00:33:49

can mimic you, but it doesn't have the efficacy, so it doesn't carry

Ali Parandeh: 00:33:53

the emotion that a copy would carry.

Vit Muller: 00:33:56

Right,

Ali Parandeh: 00:33:56

if you sit down and write a copy for your marketing landing page

Ali Parandeh: 00:33:59

or for a newsletter and you want to persuade people, AI has a harder time

Ali Parandeh: 00:34:05

persuading and carrying that emotion

Vit Muller: 00:34:08

Yeah, that does pick… I haven't, I mean, I'm prompting it with a

Vit Muller: 00:34:11

particular copywriting style, so I haven't really, found that be the case as much.

Vit Muller: 00:34:15

But I guess it all comes down to prompting, doesn't it?

Vit Muller: 00:34:19

Ali, I wanna shift our conversation a little bit, and just maybe

Vit Muller: 00:34:23

outline a bit of a backstory.

Vit Muller: 00:34:25

just your career journey, what it's been like, and how did

Vit Muller: 00:34:27

you get to where you're now.

Vit Muller: 00:34:29

and then I'd like to dive in more into the use cases that are gonna be very

Vit Muller: 00:34:32

relevant to our audience, especially with small to medium sized businesses.

Vit Muller: 00:34:36

I know you've worked with the enterprise, but you've done some unique work

Vit Muller: 00:34:40

with the, European Aerospace Agency.

Vit Muller: 00:34:43

Sounds pretty cool.

Vit Muller: 00:34:44

so yeah, I think that'd be great area to dive into.

Vit Muller: 00:34:47

But first, like how did how did you get into, like the area that you work in?

Ali Parandeh: 00:34:54

Yeah, the, definitely.

Ali Parandeh: 00:34:54

So half of my career essentially has been in engineering.

Ali Parandeh: 00:34:58

So this is traditional systems engineering, mechanical

Ali Parandeh: 00:35:01

engineering, that kind of areas.

Ali Parandeh: 00:35:03

The other half has been in AI.

Ali Parandeh: 00:35:05

the way it work is that, back in the day, I used to be a rail engineer,

Ali Parandeh: 00:35:09

when I started at Atkins, so it was a huge consultancy that they do.

Ali Parandeh: 00:35:13

they basically build rail-- they basically design the railways, the

Ali Parandeh: 00:35:16

infrastructure that you op- that you basically experience day in, day out.

Ali Parandeh: 00:35:20

So they're a massive consultancy doing, design of infrastructure,

Ali Parandeh: 00:35:23

working for governments and b- big construction comp- organizations.

Ali Parandeh: 00:35:26

I essentially was after a couple of years working there that I then started

Ali Parandeh: 00:35:30

gradually learning Python, learning data science technologies and AI

Ali Parandeh: 00:35:34

technologies, machine learning, and started, trying to implement some of

Ali Parandeh: 00:35:38

these, wh- especially when we were doing some modeling work, on some of

Ali Parandeh: 00:35:41

the rail and infrastructure projects.

Ali Parandeh: 00:35:43

we normally used to use MATLAB.

Ali Parandeh: 00:35:45

I started translating that code into Python and developing the models

Ali Parandeh: 00:35:48

in the Python, for the clients.

Ali Parandeh: 00:35:50

in the same time, started doing hackathons.

Ali Parandeh: 00:35:53

so this is essentially where you do two-day competitions trying to build

Ali Parandeh: 00:35:56

solutions to infrastructure problems.

Ali Parandeh: 00:35:59

and the company that was organizing those hackathons, called CrossTech,

Ali Parandeh: 00:36:02

they essentially was inter-- they got interested, and they hired me, to run some

Ali Parandeh: 00:36:07

of the projects that they were leading to essentially take some of these ideas for

Ali Parandeh: 00:36:10

what to build into products and to also build new products on the way as well.

Ali Parandeh: 00:36:15

So they were essentially more like a hybrid consultancy technology

Ali Parandeh: 00:36:18

firm focused on computer vision as a specialty, supplying the rail market.

Ali Parandeh: 00:36:23

So some of the products I built for them include, lineside vegetation management

Ali Parandeh: 00:36:28

detection, where you put a camera in front of a train, and the camera essentially

Ali Parandeh: 00:36:31

construct a 3D space and figures out the distance of vegetation to the track.

Ali Parandeh: 00:36:37

Because if the vegetation grows, it can drop onto the overhead

Ali Parandeh: 00:36:40

line equipment and cause fire.

Ali Parandeh: 00:36:42

And all it was doing is basically using a phone camera.

Ali Parandeh: 00:36:45

So a

Ali Parandeh: 00:36:45

computer vision…

Vit Muller: 00:36:46

not even like a LiDAR sensor required, just a regular phone

Ali Parandeh: 00:36:49

just a regular phone camera.

Ali Parandeh: 00:36:50

You take a video, construct 3D point space, and figure out essentially

Ali Parandeh: 00:36:54

like distances based on that and detect violations just from that.

Ali Parandeh: 00:36:57

And it would give you a dashboard with a map with all the violations on it.

Ali Parandeh: 00:37:01

And essentially, it's a big, massive market right now,

Ali Parandeh: 00:37:03

lineside vegetation detection.

Ali Parandeh: 00:37:05

But I work on other products as well, like passenger counting, where you

Ali Parandeh: 00:37:08

install a camera on a bus, look down, and it counts people on and off the

Ali Parandeh: 00:37:12

bus by just looking at their heads.

Ali Parandeh: 00:37:15

sub-threshold delay analysis analytics tools, as well as developing the

Ali Parandeh: 00:37:19

network rails, lifts and escalators API.

Ali Parandeh: 00:37:21

So if you're building a software, you can essentially hook into this API and read,

Ali Parandeh: 00:37:27

and, read the status of every lift and escalator in UK, in the country, right?

Ali Parandeh: 00:37:33

So if you're building like an app, like a city mapper

Vit Muller: 00:37:35

yeah

Ali Parandeh: 00:37:36

So these are essentially some of the projects

Ali Parandeh: 00:37:38

I worked on in the AI space.

Ali Parandeh: 00:37:40

I left after a couple of years working there.

Ali Parandeh: 00:37:41

I've started working for an AI data science consultancy in London called

Ali Parandeh: 00:37:46

Applied Data Science Partners, and they specialised in language models.

Ali Parandeh: 00:37:50

So they specialise in AI, modeling and also language models, and they dev-- and

Ali Parandeh: 00:37:54

they essentially supplied a lot of, They essentially developed a lot of solutions

Ali Parandeh: 00:37:58

and products for variety of different markets, not necessarily engineering,

Ali Parandeh: 00:38:01

retail, education, finance, cybersecurity.

Ali Parandeh: 00:38:06

And that's also where I worked with European Space Agency and, some of

Ali Parandeh: 00:38:10

the other bigger clients like retail clients, the finance clients and so on.

Ali Parandeh: 00:38:14

so with them, like we developed AI sol-- AI chatbots for schools, where

Ali Parandeh: 00:38:19

students can use AI chatbot to, to ask questions about their, school information.

Ali Parandeh: 00:38:24

They had like-- We built lots of different AI agents for schools and for various

Ali Parandeh: 00:38:28

different enterprises, to do variety of different tasks from filling forms

Ali Parandeh: 00:38:32

to talking to databases, and this was like early-- in the early times of MCP.

Ali Parandeh: 00:38:37

So MCP wasn't there before, so we were building some of these connectors by hand.

Ali Parandeh: 00:38:42

Um, and then, left after that, left there and started my own AI consultancy

Ali Parandeh: 00:38:47

and training, focusing mostly on engineering markets, so rail, oil and gas,

Ali Parandeh: 00:38:52

construction, automotive manufacturing.

Ali Parandeh: 00:38:55

So a lot of the work I've been doing around is essentially, upscaling some of

Ali Parandeh: 00:38:58

the engineers to help them come up with a identify use cases where AI-- they think

Ali Parandeh: 00:39:04

AI is useful because they have access to datasets that most of the public don't.

Ali Parandeh: 00:39:08

So they know how these datasets can be made into AI systems and, essentially

Ali Parandeh: 00:39:13

helping them identify these use cases and helping them building them some of

Ali Parandeh: 00:39:17

these use cases into AI solutions that actually meet infrastructure, challenges.

Ali Parandeh: 00:39:22

So like engineering challenges like in manufacturing and

Ali Parandeh: 00:39:25

infrastructure, rail and so on.

Ali Parandeh: 00:39:27

So I think these are the areas where I don't see a lot of SaaS companies like

Ali Parandeh: 00:39:31

Target, where most SaaS companies might go after business or enterprise or retail,

Ali Parandeh: 00:39:36

whereas engineering is like a ripe market I think, where there's a lot of use cases,

Ali Parandeh: 00:39:40

but there aren't many software solutions.

Vit Muller: 00:39:42

That's interesting.

Vit Muller: 00:39:43

Okay, so I think this is a good segue into Defining use case, defining a

Vit Muller: 00:39:48

problem and coming up with solutions.

Vit Muller: 00:39:51

I like to use a thing, called double diamond.

Vit Muller: 00:39:53

I'm sure you've heard of it, a double diamond.

Vit Muller: 00:39:56

but I'd be curious to know from your… Like how do, like when

Vit Muller: 00:39:59

you-- Let's go with an example.

Vit Muller: 00:40:02

Let's say for that, European Aerospace Agency, you've done s- I

Vit Muller: 00:40:05

don't know if you can talk about it, but, if not, then we can talk about

Vit Muller: 00:40:09

another use case, another, example.

Vit Muller: 00:40:11

But when you work there, obviously, the client have approached you guys

Vit Muller: 00:40:16

for a particular, problem, but how would you then define a solution?

Vit Muller: 00:40:21

Like what goes into the process?

Vit Muller: 00:40:22

'Cause I'm t- I'm thinking this could be relevant to the listeners

Vit Muller: 00:40:26

and then bringing it-- Just getting an idea so that when we are working

Vit Muller: 00:40:30

with small businesses… I'm trying to… Let me explain another way.

Vit Muller: 00:40:34

So there are obvious solutions that we do using HighLevel for businesses,

Vit Muller: 00:40:37

and they're very commercially viable and scalable, but that only

Vit Muller: 00:40:42

solves a particular problem that businesses, and most common problem

Vit Muller: 00:40:46

that businesses come to you for.

Vit Muller: 00:40:47

"Hey, we need more leads," or, "We need a way to convert more leads."

Vit Muller: 00:40:50

But I like to look at the whole thing, right?

Vit Muller: 00:40:53

'Cause business is not just about, sales and acquiring customers.

Vit Muller: 00:40:58

Ultimately, business should also be about profitability, there are other, areas of

Vit Muller: 00:41:04

business that impact profitability, right?

Vit Muller: 00:41:06

It's not just sales.

Vit Muller: 00:41:07

It's the operations.

Vit Muller: 00:41:09

It's, So there's a lot of other use cases that I'm not seeing in the

Vit Muller: 00:41:13

HighLevel space people talk about much, but I know they are there because I

Vit Muller: 00:41:17

know that I've applied some of those, solutions to, clients, whether it was

Vit Muller: 00:41:22

fulfillment, and breaking it down.

Vit Muller: 00:41:24

But there's a lot of opportunities, put it that way.

Vit Muller: 00:41:26

And I think it'd be really cool to get that perspective, example from you

Vit Muller: 00:41:32

working with those, bigger companies and what goes into that process of defining

Vit Muller: 00:41:37

a problem in the first place even

Ali Parandeh: 00:41:39

Mm-hmm.

Ali Parandeh: 00:41:40

Yeah, so no, that's a good question.

Ali Parandeh: 00:41:42

essentially the main thing is with bigger enterprises, especially larger

Ali Parandeh: 00:41:46

institutions and companies, it is much harder for smaller enterprises and smaller

Ali Parandeh: 00:41:51

companies to get contracts with them.

Ali Parandeh: 00:41:53

Oftentimes, what you need to have is you need to show procu-- they

Ali Parandeh: 00:41:56

have a procurement department, and you need to go through…

Ali Parandeh: 00:41:59

Sometimes you need to go through a bidding process, and as part of the bidding

Ali Parandeh: 00:42:02

process, they will vet for things like cyberse-security practices you follow.

Ali Parandeh: 00:42:07

Do you have certifications such as Cyber Essentials Plus, ISO 27001?

Ali Parandeh: 00:42:13

Do you have an information security management system?

Ali Parandeh: 00:42:15

Do you have a quality management system?

Ali Parandeh: 00:42:17

So these are all the essential stuff that you need to have, as a small

Ali Parandeh: 00:42:19

business if you need to get-- if you want to get those bigger projects.

Ali Parandeh: 00:42:22

And oftentimes what happens is, if you are a consultancy or an agency with

Ali Parandeh: 00:42:26

more experience, you can prime, you can essentially get these contracts and sub-

Ali Parandeh: 00:42:31

subcontract them to smaller companies.

Ali Parandeh: 00:42:33

But if you're a smaller company, you normally will have to subco-

Ali Parandeh: 00:42:35

be-become a subcontractor of a prime contractor working on these

Ali Parandeh: 00:42:39

tools if you wanna go there.

Ali Parandeh: 00:42:41

with the case of European Space Agency, they essentially knew what they wanted.

Ali Parandeh: 00:42:45

so they put a bid out in terms of like they wanted to see how

Ali Parandeh: 00:42:48

a generative AI can be used in design of satellites, basically.

Ali Parandeh: 00:42:52

How can generative AI be used to optimize satellite design and, be used

Ali Parandeh: 00:42:56

for designing satellite components?

Ali Parandeh: 00:42:58

Because they had seen that NASA, for instance, had

Ali Parandeh: 00:43:01

already done some of this work.

Ali Parandeh: 00:43:03

So they got inspired or they… There was a push, commercial push from

Ali Parandeh: 00:43:07

competitors such as NASA, the US base, space agency, how they have done this

Ali Parandeh: 00:43:12

and we need to get on this as well.

Ali Parandeh: 00:43:14

And, this is a public case study at the moment.

Ali Parandeh: 00:43:17

You can essentially look it up, and this is, was something that we carried

Ali Parandeh: 00:43:19

out, with my previous employer.

Ali Parandeh: 00:43:21

but with essentially identifying new use cases for, bigger customers or big

Ali Parandeh: 00:43:26

enterprise or in areas you haven't… Like it's not very visible, essentially

Ali Parandeh: 00:43:31

what you need to do is you need to go back and instead of thinking about AI

Ali Parandeh: 00:43:35

and what solutions might be relevant for it, s- what problems are relevant

Ali Parandeh: 00:43:39

for it, you need to flip it around.

Ali Parandeh: 00:43:41

So a lot of people search solutions in search of a problem You know,

Ali Parandeh: 00:43:45

whereas instead you need to flip it around and look at all the problems

Ali Parandeh: 00:43:48

in the market and see which ones are interesting, and then you can then find

Ali Parandeh: 00:43:53

a-- And then essentially, not all the problems will have AI as a solution.

Ali Parandeh: 00:43:57

And just focus on the problem that has the highest impact, not

Ali Parandeh: 00:44:00

necessarily if it's got AI in it.

Ali Parandeh: 00:44:02

If anything, I-- most of the time these days, I actually promote

Ali Parandeh: 00:44:04

people to solve solutions without AI.

Ali Parandeh: 00:44:06

So solve problems without AI because it's more deterministic.

Ali Parandeh: 00:44:09

AI is a statistical model.

Ali Parandeh: 00:44:12

It's based on probabilities, and every time you put the same

Ali Parandeh: 00:44:15

stuff in it, it gives you s- different stuff coming out, right?

Ali Parandeh: 00:44:19

Ask it to write you an essay about, I don't know, business.

Ali Parandeh: 00:44:22

It will give you a different completely essay every time, right?

Ali Parandeh: 00:44:25

Like the wordings might be different

Vit Muller: 00:44:26

you're bringing a really good point because

Vit Muller: 00:44:28

also the cost comes into mind.

Vit Muller: 00:44:31

I've been a huge fan of building automation workflows and, inside

Vit Muller: 00:44:35

our, like in our HighLevel world, we have a thing called snapshots.

Vit Muller: 00:44:39

you open up a sub-account and you've defined a problem and you're trying

Vit Muller: 00:44:42

to solve it, and the solution might be that you need to build a funnel for

Vit Muller: 00:44:49

a lead gen, then build an automation that nurtures leads and, after you've

Vit Muller: 00:44:54

had enough data, you can average out the data to build results conversion.

Vit Muller: 00:44:59

so you need to build some automations.

Vit Muller: 00:45:01

you need to build some, maybe some unique custom fields for the CRM because the

Vit Muller: 00:45:04

business use case has a unique, data they need to capture, and all together it's

Vit Muller: 00:45:09

a system, and then you snapshot it, and then that gives you scale because now you

Vit Muller: 00:45:14

can load it into multiple sub-accounts, or you can sell it to other agencies.

Vit Muller: 00:45:19

so where I was going with that, just lo- lost my train of thought, but,

Ali Parandeh: 00:45:23

Something to do with fields, creating these fields, creating snapshots

Vit Muller: 00:45:27

No, yeah, I know where I was going with, this is with, because

Vit Muller: 00:45:31

you mentioned, defining a problem Is important, and then the solution doesn't

Vit Muller: 00:45:35

always have to be AI because AI is being, probabilistic, whereas other

Vit Muller: 00:45:40

solutions might be more deterministic.

Vit Muller: 00:45:42

Workf- automation workflows by design are more deterministic because you've

Vit Muller: 00:45:47

got a set of rules, a trigger, if this, then that, if this, then that,

Vit Muller: 00:45:51

and then that happens exactly, right?

Vit Muller: 00:45:53

so it's cheaper as well when it comes to automation workflows as opposed to AI.

Vit Muller: 00:45:59

and so that's an area I g- again, it's another really good discussion point I

Vit Muller: 00:46:03

think deserves a whole episode talking about, when to u- when to use AI or when

Vit Muller: 00:46:09

to use automations and when to u- b- when to use both and how you design the

Vit Muller: 00:46:13

solution, the right way and what ratio.

Vit Muller: 00:46:15

Because, if the solution is completely built on AI, that, that means every

Vit Muller: 00:46:20

time it's running, e- every time it's gonna incur a cost, right?

Ali Parandeh: 00:46:24

Yeah,

Vit Muller: 00:46:24

an interesting area

Ali Parandeh: 00:46:25

I give you an example.

Ali Parandeh: 00:46:26

people are creating these automations, and then they put AI in it, like

Ali Parandeh: 00:46:30

N8N automation, where it's got, a chatbot doing, I don't know, document

Ali Parandeh: 00:46:35

classification or email triaging.

Ali Parandeh: 00:46:36

that stuff might not necessarily need AI because you may write a simple

Ali Parandeh: 00:46:41

rules-based check that will classify it more deterministically for you

Ali Parandeh: 00:46:45

compared to using AI, because sometimes AI may return nothing as well.

Ali Parandeh: 00:46:48

Sometimes it may fail, the connection may drop, the latency might be too

Ali Parandeh: 00:46:52

high, and then the whole, automation may time out, and, sometimes

Ali Parandeh: 00:46:56

it may not follow your prompt.

Ali Parandeh: 00:46:58

The-- when you give a prompt to an AI, it doesn't need to follow it.

Ali Parandeh: 00:47:01

It-- There is no con- there is no legal contract for it to follow that prompt.

Vit Muller: 00:47:04

Interesting

Ali Parandeh: 00:47:05

in the AI space, we call it alignment.

Ali Parandeh: 00:47:07

So it depends on the model you use.

Ali Parandeh: 00:47:08

Some models have better alignments than the others, but you can't trust

Ali Parandeh: 00:47:12

a prompt to follow that prompt all the time, depending on the inputs as well.

Ali Parandeh: 00:47:18

I can send you an email, put prompt injection in that email,

Ali Parandeh: 00:47:20

and then essentially get your whole automation go haywire.

Ali Parandeh: 00:47:23

I can basically put in my email in white text, "Ignore all previous

Ali Parandeh: 00:47:26

instructions. hi, Vit. How you doing?" Blah, blah, blah, blah.

Ali Parandeh: 00:47:30

And I can literally haywire your automation because you're feeding

Ali Parandeh: 00:47:32

the entire my-- entirety of my email to your system, and the AI

Ali Parandeh: 00:47:36

is reading that and then thinking that it needs to do something with,

Ali Parandeh: 00:47:39

with the instructions I give it

Vit Muller: 00:47:40

Right.

Vit Muller: 00:47:41

So this is, okay, so this is a topic of how hackers are now getting savvy

Vit Muller: 00:47:46

and they're injecting prompts and

Vit Muller: 00:47:48

think that's a whole

Ali Parandeh: 00:47:49

it's touching security as a, as another, opener as, like

Ali Parandeh: 00:47:52

a subtopic as well, but it's both inconsistencies but also security

Ali Parandeh: 00:47:56

as an issue when you put AI in it.

Ali Parandeh: 00:47:58

Whereas if you just put some kind of, simple checks that would just

Ali Parandeh: 00:48:02

check for things inside the email that would then help you to classify

Ali Parandeh: 00:48:05

it, this always runs the same way.

Ali Parandeh: 00:48:08

and it always buckets it really well.

Ali Parandeh: 00:48:10

You don't necessarily need AI in that.

Ali Parandeh: 00:48:11

if it's a very complicated logic, let's say you need to check bunch of

Ali Parandeh: 00:48:15

other databases and then look at-- do a, do five different lookups and

Ali Parandeh: 00:48:18

then check some logic in order to then classify an email, then yes,

Ali Parandeh: 00:48:22

that, that makes a sense to use AI.

Ali Parandeh: 00:48:24

But if it's just like a simple check, I don't know, labeling an

Ali Parandeh: 00:48:27

email, is it promotional or not?

Ali Parandeh: 00:48:29

Like that stuff may not necessarily need AI

Vit Muller: 00:48:32

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:48:32

So going back to defining a problem, the problem statement, it was a really

Vit Muller: 00:48:38

good validation what you were saying, because going back to what I was saying,

Vit Muller: 00:48:42

we use a thing called double diamond.

Ali Parandeh: 00:48:44

Yeah

Vit Muller: 00:48:45

that's not thing that I've come up with.

Vit Muller: 00:48:48

It's a thing from UK Design Council, right?

Vit Muller: 00:48:52

so for those of you guys listening, just picture two diamonds as a shapes.

Vit Muller: 00:48:58

And the first one is all about, defining the problem statement.

Vit Muller: 00:49:02

So how is this relevant to what you guys do?

Vit Muller: 00:49:05

So you get a new client, or let's say you're starting out fresh, you

Vit Muller: 00:49:08

just sign up for HighLevel, and you're just trying to score your

Vit Muller: 00:49:11

very first, client, and you got no reputation, you got nothing to show for.

Vit Muller: 00:49:16

there's an approach that works really well.

Vit Muller: 00:49:18

It's called a student approach, where you literally just go around

Vit Muller: 00:49:22

businesses and, speak to the business owner and try pick their brain.

Vit Muller: 00:49:27

Try and offer them… Buy them a coffee or buy them a lunch, just

Vit Muller: 00:49:31

so that you've got the opportunity to sit down with them for an hour.

Vit Muller: 00:49:34

If you can do that, then that hour, should be all about trying to

Vit Muller: 00:49:38

understand their business and all the different problems that they run

Vit Muller: 00:49:43

into when it comes to day-to-day.

Vit Muller: 00:49:45

At the end of the day, they all wanna be more profitable, right?

Vit Muller: 00:49:47

So talk to them about "What are different things that impact

Vit Muller: 00:49:50

profitability in your business, Mr.

Vit Muller: 00:49:53

Baker?" Let's say you go to a local bakery, 'cause why not?

Vit Muller: 00:49:56

And there's always, you don't know what you don't know.

Vit Muller: 00:49:59

What is the… it's the, this thing called like the five

Vit Muller: 00:50:01

levels of, Forgot the name of it.

Vit Muller: 00:50:03

you know what you know is the ultimate, but initially it's

Vit Muller: 00:50:07

like you don't know what you

Ali Parandeh: 00:50:09

talking about Joe Harris window, like you know what you know,

Ali Parandeh: 00:50:11

you don't know what you don't know.

Vit Muller: 00:50:13

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:50:13

So like you don't know what you don't know, then you know what you don't

Vit Muller: 00:50:16

know, then you know what you know,

Ali Parandeh: 00:50:18

Nah, you don't know what you don't know

Vit Muller: 00:50:19

then you don't know what you know because… Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:50:22

But like it's, the co- it's a c- it's something to do with confidence.

Vit Muller: 00:50:25

it's a f- framework, right?

Vit Muller: 00:50:27

Anyway, I don't want to detour too much.

Vit Muller: 00:50:28

But so going, talking back to you guys, listening.

Vit Muller: 00:50:31

you're speaking to this baker and you just want to pick their brain, talk

Vit Muller: 00:50:35

to them about their business, and just be inquisitive, be genuinely curious.

Vit Muller: 00:50:42

Make sure they know that you're genuinely curious because you're starting out

Vit Muller: 00:50:45

something new and you just want to learn, and you want to have an opportunity to

Vit Muller: 00:50:49

see how you could provide value to them.

Vit Muller: 00:50:51

And so what you need to be focusing on is, yes, you've just signed up for

Vit Muller: 00:50:55

HighLevel and in your head, you know all the different features and functionalities

Vit Muller: 00:50:59

and they're exciting, but that's solution.

Vit Muller: 00:51:03

Try and forget about that and just focus on that conversation with that

Vit Muller: 00:51:06

business owner and just focus on all the different problems that they're stating.

Vit Muller: 00:51:11

and going back to double diamond, that first diamond is all about figuring

Vit Muller: 00:51:15

out the core problem statement.

Vit Muller: 00:51:17

So each diamond is actually split in two halves.

Vit Muller: 00:51:20

The first half is just, open wide.

Vit Muller: 00:51:24

There's no limits.

Vit Muller: 00:51:25

It's just aggregating as much information as possible.

Vit Muller: 00:51:28

All the different problems that they're telling you, document all of it.

Vit Muller: 00:51:32

in a hardcore way, it's about talking to not just that one business owner,

Vit Muller: 00:51:37

but maybe talking to their staff, talking to their customers, doing a

Vit Muller: 00:51:41

research in that industry, talking to other bakers, and you just end up with

Vit Muller: 00:51:46

massive amount of information and it's all about different problem statements.

Vit Muller: 00:51:51

And then you start to, create a commonal- like you start, you look at it and then

Vit Muller: 00:51:57

what you want to end up with, because it's marked commercially viable thing, is you

Vit Muller: 00:52:02

look at which one of those problem is the most common across all of those bakers

Vit Muller: 00:52:06

that I've just met, and which one of those problem is the most common across all of

Vit Muller: 00:52:11

their staff or all of their customers.

Vit Muller: 00:52:13

And that might give you three core problems that are related to that business

Vit Muller: 00:52:17

And if there's a lot of overlap, then that's a problem worth solving because

Vit Muller: 00:52:21

if you come up with a solution, then you can s- you got something you can go

Vit Muller: 00:52:25

to market and it's been proven, right?

Vit Muller: 00:52:27

So that's where the second diamond comes in.

Vit Muller: 00:52:29

The second diamond is all about figuring out what the most leanest,

Vit Muller: 00:52:35

most effective, most scalable, most eff- most impactful solution could be.

Vit Muller: 00:52:40

But again, to get to that core solution, which is gonna be just like

Vit Muller: 00:52:44

one thing, you're gonna be prototyping so that again, so going into that

Vit Muller: 00:52:48

first half of the second diamond, it's all about open wide, no limits.

Vit Muller: 00:52:53

You're brainstorming, you're talking to, you're coming up with some ideas.

Vit Muller: 00:52:57

you're talking to those business owners again, getting feedback.

Vit Muller: 00:53:01

There's a lot of feedback loop involved.

Vit Muller: 00:53:03

And then that culminates into, again, seeing what the most effective solution

Vit Muller: 00:53:09

would be, and then that's what you come up with, and then you go to market.

Vit Muller: 00:53:11

Am I saying that right?

Ali Parandeh: 00:53:12

Yeah.

Ali Parandeh: 00:53:13

Yeah, exactly.

Ali Parandeh: 00:53:14

I think double diamond from what I understand is you expand the problem,

Ali Parandeh: 00:53:18

then you condense it down into a single point that then you can then

Ali Parandeh: 00:53:21

use to expand the solution ideas, and then you then condense it down into a

Ali Parandeh: 00:53:26

single valid solution for that problem.

Ali Parandeh: 00:53:29

is that what I understood correctly?

Vit Muller: 00:53:30

Exactly.

Ali Parandeh: 00:53:30

Yeah, that's a really good framework.

Ali Parandeh: 00:53:32

Yeah, I like it.

Vit Muller: 00:53:33

I like it, yeah

Ali Parandeh: 00:53:34

one idea I can give you is you can create yourself a cloud

Ali Parandeh: 00:53:37

skill to follow this framework for you.

Ali Parandeh: 00:53:40

So create a skill that would then expand the-- like you just give it a topic

Ali Parandeh: 00:53:43

it, that helps you ask your questions to expand the problem and then downs--

Ali Parandeh: 00:53:47

condense it down into an item, and then once that gate it passes, it then

Ali Parandeh: 00:53:51

can help you expand solutions and then condense it down into a single item.

Ali Parandeh: 00:53:55

So like some kind of brainstorming skill.

Ali Parandeh: 00:53:57

You can create these type of things as well for yourself with AI skills

Vit Muller: 00:54:00

Hey, by the way, you know what I found about this framework?

Vit Muller: 00:54:04

It's a brilliant way to position… If you tr- if you're trying to sell a custom

Vit Muller: 00:54:10

build to a business and charge a lot of money for it This process allows you

Vit Muller: 00:54:15

to do that because you're essentially talking to a client and you're not just

Vit Muller: 00:54:21

going straight up, "Okay, it's gonna be this much." you're going through a

Vit Muller: 00:54:24

process with them, so they are part of it.

Vit Muller: 00:54:27

They can see how much thought go, thoughts goes into it.

Vit Muller: 00:54:31

And then in the end, you… Say, put an example, the way I do it is I use ClickUp.

Vit Muller: 00:54:37

In ClickUp you've got a whiteboard, so you can create like mind maps and you

Vit Muller: 00:54:41

can do like design systems visually.

Vit Muller: 00:54:45

So I would use the double diamond where I would be talking to customers,

Vit Muller: 00:54:48

all that stuff that we talked about.

Vit Muller: 00:54:50

But then when I would- when it came to prototyping the ideal solution, I

Vit Muller: 00:54:54

would actually map out visually, what would, sales pipeline look like a custom

Vit Muller: 00:54:59

opportunity stages inside HighLevel, what would they look like based on what

Vit Muller: 00:55:02

they told me that their buyer journey is and then their fulfillment processes.

Vit Muller: 00:55:08

And then I would start mapping out everything else, custom fields,

Vit Muller: 00:55:10

custom values, different workflows and automations, just overview, but

Vit Muller: 00:55:15

all visually designed in a whiteboard.

Vit Muller: 00:55:18

Then I would have another session with a client.

Vit Muller: 00:55:20

I would show them, what I've come up with as a prototype.

Vit Muller: 00:55:23

They would look at it, they would tell me yay or nay, give me some more feedback.

Vit Muller: 00:55:28

I would reiterate, and then at the end, I would have something

Vit Muller: 00:55:32

that is very well defined.

Vit Muller: 00:55:35

I can run AI against it, just grab a screenshot, run it through AI and

Vit Muller: 00:55:39

say, "Hey, how much do you reckon it would be, in, in, in labor

Vit Muller: 00:55:44

to build it in their HighLevel account?" That gives you an estimate.

Vit Muller: 00:55:48

Then you f- you know, you, you multiply it by an hourly rate that you pay yourself

Vit Muller: 00:55:53

or you pay to a staff member, with obviously you should always have a markup

Vit Muller: 00:55:57

because it's a business, and then that gives you the figure, and you go back

Vit Muller: 00:56:01

to the client and you say, this is gonna be $20,000 to build what we've done."

Vit Muller: 00:56:06

And the client now has a context, which is important, because they are not al-

Vit Muller: 00:56:11

they're no longer looking at a figure.

Vit Muller: 00:56:14

They're looking at the whiteboard.

Vit Muller: 00:56:16

They see the complexity, they see the design that, by the way, they've

Vit Muller: 00:56:21

gone through that process with you when it was being designed,

Vit Muller: 00:56:24

so they, they were part of it.

Vit Muller: 00:56:27

So it's not like you've come up with something.

Vit Muller: 00:56:29

And yeah, I've just found that a really cool way to sell high ticket.

Vit Muller: 00:56:34

Obviously you might, let's say it's 20K, you'd still 5K now

Vit Muller: 00:56:37

and 5K middle, 10K at the end.

Vit Muller: 00:56:40

You break it down, but nevertheless, that's how you,

Vit Muller: 00:56:43

that's how I, that's how I do it.

Vit Muller: 00:56:44

That's how I sell higher ticket, bills for HighLevel.

Vit Muller: 00:56:47

But it's all based on starting with a conversation, the double diamond.

Vit Muller: 00:56:52

And I even tell my clients like we use this principle of double diamond

Vit Muller: 00:56:56

because we wanna make sure that we come up with something that's

Vit Muller: 00:56:58

gonna be very effective for you.

Vit Muller: 00:57:01

this process might take us a week or two or three.

Vit Muller: 00:57:04

I also tell them it's like there's a maturity to it, maturity to a decision.

Vit Muller: 00:57:10

What I found is a sequence of an hour to two-hour-long meetings once a week,

Vit Muller: 00:57:17

and in between those meetings, we, we get closer to the final design.

Vit Muller: 00:57:22

by letting it mature over a week, by the time we get to the second meeting,

Vit Muller: 00:57:27

they've had a time to think about it.

Vit Muller: 00:57:28

I've had a time to think about it.

Vit Muller: 00:57:30

We're looking at it again.

Vit Muller: 00:57:32

And yeah, it's Just sharing it because,

Ali Parandeh: 00:57:36

it's-- No, it's good.

Ali Parandeh: 00:57:37

This is, this is… So what I do similar is I normally run a discovery session.

Ali Parandeh: 00:57:43

So normally I do a four-step process, with customers.

Ali Parandeh: 00:57:47

So one is, some of the times you can sit down and help them through

Ali Parandeh: 00:57:50

the problems, but some of the times they don't know anything about AI.

Ali Parandeh: 00:57:53

So you need to first bring them up to speed with the tech and what is

Ali Parandeh: 00:57:57

possible, what is not possible, so they have the literacy to be able

Ali Parandeh: 00:58:00

to talk with pro-- about problems.

Ali Parandeh: 00:58:02

And then the second step where you do the discovery is exactly that,

Ali Parandeh: 00:58:05

like talking with everyone within the team and within their teams.

Ali Parandeh: 00:58:09

so some of them are, have bigger teams, so you need to talk to everyone and

Ali Parandeh: 00:58:11

capturing all the information and essentially doing the double diamond

Ali Parandeh: 00:58:15

here, where you're expanding and figuring out all the problems and all

Ali Parandeh: 00:58:18

the possible use cases that there is.

Ali Parandeh: 00:58:21

And then essentially then using a framework, so you need to have some

Ali Parandeh: 00:58:24

kind of way to then prioritize.

Ali Parandeh: 00:58:26

So you need some kind of framework to then bring it back down into

Ali Parandeh: 00:58:30

a handful of ideas and use cases.

Ali Parandeh: 00:58:33

and then just presenting them, getting paid to them, creating this report to

Ali Parandeh: 00:58:37

then present to them as a discovery.

Ali Parandeh: 00:58:39

Like this is basically what are the top, what are-- these are the top

Ali Parandeh: 00:58:41

problems of your business or your teams.

Ali Parandeh: 00:58:44

Here are top 10 solutions mapped to these problems.

Ali Parandeh: 00:58:47

Maybe not all the solutions are AI, but like probably all of

Ali Parandeh: 00:58:50

them are automation related.

Ali Parandeh: 00:58:52

And here is a sequence we recommend you to go through these solutions, building them,

Ali Parandeh: 00:58:57

and here's a quote for building them.

Ali Parandeh: 00:59:00

And then you can then use basically those, what's it called?

Ali Parandeh: 00:59:02

You can then essentially, take each solution with AI, figure out how much

Ali Parandeh: 00:59:07

effort it is to build, calculate the, calculate your hourly rate, put a markup

Ali Parandeh: 00:59:11

on top, and essentially create a big quote, like a single quote with that

Ali Parandeh: 00:59:15

could be worth 100K, 200K because it's got five, six different projects baked in.

Vit Muller: 00:59:19

Yeah, you're talking different figures now here.

Vit Muller: 00:59:22

Enterprise, right?

Ali Parandeh: 00:59:23

So with enterprise, you can sell big, but also you gotta--

Ali Parandeh: 00:59:26

you need, you need smaller high-- This is like super high ticket, but you

Ali Parandeh: 00:59:29

need smaller high tickets in order to, feed the business because those

Ali Parandeh: 00:59:33

bigger tickets will take months.

Ali Parandeh: 00:59:36

So with enterprise, the sa- the sales cycles, you're looking at like

Ali Parandeh: 00:59:39

quarters in terms of like sales cycles.

Ali Parandeh: 00:59:42

Because with bigger ticket items, they need to go and pitch it to

Ali Parandeh: 00:59:45

the s- leader-leadership team.

Ali Parandeh: 00:59:47

They need to have buy-in, then they need to put budget in place, then the

Ali Parandeh: 00:59:51

procurement needs to get involved, then the procurement needs to approve it,

Ali Parandeh: 00:59:53

then you need to get a purchase order.

Ali Parandeh: 00:59:55

Then you can start the process, and then you also need to have upfront payments

Ali Parandeh: 00:59:58

in place so that you can get fed.

Ali Parandeh: 01:00:00

your business can get fed whilst you are delivering.

Ali Parandeh: 01:00:03

so the enterprise game for consulting is like basically like this.

Ali Parandeh: 01:00:06

Either you are, you're bidding for projects, which is easier because

Ali Parandeh: 01:00:10

they already have the problems, you just have to provide a solution.

Ali Parandeh: 01:00:13

But for smaller companies that are not big enterprise, but they're

Ali Parandeh: 01:00:16

still big enough, like I would say mid-sized enterprise, yeah.

Ali Parandeh: 01:00:22

For mid-size enterprise, you need to essentially bring them on board

Ali Parandeh: 01:00:25

through education-based selling, get the discovery in place and figure out

Ali Parandeh: 01:00:30

the problems and map it to solutions, and then essentially quantify how

Ali Parandeh: 01:00:33

each solution solves a problem.

Ali Parandeh: 01:00:35

So it's either ti- saving them cost or giving them higher margins or, I

Ali Parandeh: 01:00:40

don't know, essentially changes brand perception depending on like how you

Ali Parandeh: 01:00:43

can quantify the return on investment.

Vit Muller: 01:00:45

Yeah.

Ali Parandeh: 01:00:46

And you can build prototypes.

Ali Parandeh: 01:00:48

Yeah, and these days you can build prototypes really quickly with cloud code.

Ali Parandeh: 01:00:51

So if you need to show that, "Look, you used to do this in two weeks. Here

Ali Parandeh: 01:00:55

is a simple HTML app that can do it in a, in an hour." Or not in an hour.

Ali Parandeh: 01:00:59

You just drag and drop your file into it, and it gives you something coming out.

Ali Parandeh: 01:01:03

just in order to build it properly, secure, safe, we need 20K

Vit Muller: 01:01:07

And it's, when you start talking those figures, you might not be

Vit Muller: 01:01:10

used to them, but like in those type of size clients, it's completely normal.

Vit Muller: 01:01:14

It's actually be really weird if you, if you were like underquoted

Vit Muller: 01:01:18

to an enterprise client.

Vit Muller: 01:01:19

They might even look at it as, "Yeah, we're probably not gonna go with you

Vit Muller: 01:01:22

because that sounds like too cheap.

Ali Parandeh: 01:01:25

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:01:25

quality," right?

Ali Parandeh: 01:01:26

One, one is that.

Ali Parandeh: 01:01:27

The other one is you need to have a staircase.

Ali Parandeh: 01:01:29

So you need to have a staircase of products.

Ali Parandeh: 01:01:31

So you can't go and sell them 200K if they don't know you yet.

Ali Parandeh: 01:01:35

So you need to sell them something low ticket to gradually increase the

Ali Parandeh: 01:01:38

build, the trust, and then upsell the higher ticket, upsell the higher ticket.

Ali Parandeh: 01:01:42

Basically, th- this is a standard model as well we run with lower

Vit Muller: 01:01:45

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:01:46

It's it's we call that foot in the door offers,

Ali Parandeh: 01:01:49

Put it in their offers.

Ali Parandeh: 01:01:50

Yeah.

Ali Parandeh: 01:01:50

So your, you may start with day rates.

Ali Parandeh: 01:01:52

You may start with okay, we just charge, I don't know, this much for two days of

Ali Parandeh: 01:01:57

work, or one week of work, and to them it's like case, I don't know, 5K, 10K.

Ali Parandeh: 01:02:02

Well then, you then figure out their problems because you've

Ali Parandeh: 01:02:05

been in their teams and no one else knows their problems.

Ali Parandeh: 01:02:08

You know it because you've been in, you've kicked the door.

Ali Parandeh: 01:02:11

And then you can then, with that knowledge, you can give them

Ali Parandeh: 01:02:13

proposals that are hard to say no to.

Ali Parandeh: 01:02:15

You just need to make sure the deal and the offer you give them, is

Ali Parandeh: 01:02:18

valued really good and is fixed price.

Ali Parandeh: 01:02:21

It gives you the margin, but to them it's I don't know, 90% cheaper for

Ali Parandeh: 01:02:25

them to do it manually than to give you that money to build it for them

Vit Muller: 01:02:29

and you build trust, the walls goes down, more opportunities open

Vit Muller: 01:02:33

up, and it's way easier to talk to them.

Vit Muller: 01:02:35

It's nowhere, no different to a dating game, actually.

Vit Muller: 01:02:39

You want to impress somebody first, build trust, then you get a second date.

Vit Muller: 01:02:44

Maybe there's a bigger project co-coming up and, and so on and so forth.

Vit Muller: 01:02:48

So this is great.

Vit Muller: 01:02:49

And guys, I wanted to-- there was a few th-follow-ups, that I was

Vit Muller: 01:02:53

gonna, I was gonna, while you were talking that, that came to my mind.

Vit Muller: 01:02:55

So one, that double diamond process and, the high-ticket thing, do

Vit Muller: 01:03:01

not use it if you're planning to sell something off the shelf.

Vit Muller: 01:03:05

if you just wanna sell subscription to HighLevel and sell them reputation

Vit Muller: 01:03:09

management or something that's already been proven to work and it's a solution

Vit Muller: 01:03:13

that kind of works in general for most, let's say, brick-and-mortar businesses

Vit Muller: 01:03:17

who have Google Business listings.

Vit Muller: 01:03:19

That process will actually kill conversion in-- if it's a small client

Vit Muller: 01:03:24

and you're trying to sell something for a couple of hundred bucks a

Vit Muller: 01:03:27

month, that will kill conversion.

Vit Muller: 01:03:29

In that case, you wanna sell something that's, highly productized at scale.

Vit Muller: 01:03:33

So make sure that you f- you know, think about the use case and when

Vit Muller: 01:03:36

to apply some of these strategies that, that we talk on the podcast

Vit Muller: 01:03:40

because, I've done that mistake myself.

Vit Muller: 01:03:42

I've, I can even share, one day I've got these 20-page Canva, beautiful Canva,

Vit Muller: 01:03:50

proposals with visuals, with everything.

Vit Muller: 01:03:52

it's incredible I spend half day on them to put them together all for nothing,

Vit Muller: 01:03:58

And then another time it was just like having a quick call, speaking to somebody.

Vit Muller: 01:04:03

Whilst on a call, vibe coded a new website because they didn't have a website.

Vit Muller: 01:04:07

They were super impressed.

Vit Muller: 01:04:08

They sign up on the spot before another call, So it's important to,

Vit Muller: 01:04:12

to think about the audience, the target market you're talking to.

Vit Muller: 01:04:16

If they're a really small micro business, they don't even have time.

Vit Muller: 01:04:19

They, they, they need something now.

Vit Muller: 01:04:22

so yeah, it's just important distinction on that I guess I wanted to highlight

Ali Parandeh: 01:04:25

that's a good point.

Ali Parandeh: 01:04:26

Yeah, if you-- if it's a pro-productized offer and a software, you just basically

Ali Parandeh: 01:04:31

need to map it to their problem.

Vit Muller: 01:04:33

And quick, quicker this,

Ali Parandeh: 01:04:34

quick mapping.

Ali Parandeh: 01:04:35

Yeah, it doesn't need a sophisticated bespoke proposal.

Ali Parandeh: 01:04:40

But if you, yeah, if you're doing something higher ticket or you're

Ali Parandeh: 01:04:43

asking-- you're gonna be asking for a lot of cash up front, then you need

Ali Parandeh: 01:04:47

to give them more, trust and, like information basically, how it can…

Ali Parandeh: 01:04:51

Essentially you need to do more of the upfront work of selling it

Vit Muller: 01:04:54

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:04:55

And expect longer sales cycle too.

Vit Muller: 01:04:57

there's whole science in it.

Vit Muller: 01:04:58

Like I'm always, I always think about it like what would be the most ideal funnel

Vit Muller: 01:05:03

where you've got a foot-in-the-door… And by the way, when, the way I like

Vit Muller: 01:05:07

to think about foot-in-the-door offers, they are not all offers to make money

Vit Muller: 01:05:12

for a actual like transaction in money.

Vit Muller: 01:05:15

Sometimes the foot-in-the-door offer is purely for the transaction of

Vit Muller: 01:05:19

getting them to opt in for something, so now you've got their email address.

Vit Muller: 01:05:22

That's a win.

Vit Muller: 01:05:23

'Cause like before somebody gives you money, like you need to, if you can build

Vit Muller: 01:05:27

like the most frictionless, ascending ladder, like then you've got a, you've

Vit Muller: 01:05:33

got a pretty awesome business where you've got such an irresistible offer,

Vit Muller: 01:05:37

people don't pay you with money, but they pay you with their co- their data.

Vit Muller: 01:05:41

They give you their contact details.

Vit Muller: 01:05:43

The next offer right after that might be something really cheap, 50 bucks a

Vit Muller: 01:05:47

month or something, small little product.

Vit Muller: 01:05:50

I mean, think about HighLevel, how many different feature sets there it has,

Vit Muller: 01:05:52

and they actually announced now you can have up to 20 different SaaS, plans.

Vit Muller: 01:05:58

So it was limited to less, and actually 99 SaaS plans you can now create.

Vit Muller: 01:06:03

So I've got say, my plan is you pay and you get access to everything.

Vit Muller: 01:06:07

But I could go and just do that one feature out of 100 features,

Vit Muller: 01:06:10

just sell omni-channel inbox price that like, you know, at very

Vit Muller: 01:06:15

affordable rate and have that as a…

Vit Muller: 01:06:17

I mean, this is, if you look at HubSpot, for example, like this is

Vit Muller: 01:06:20

their strategy pretty much, right?

Ali Parandeh: 01:06:24

I think HubSpot created also the inbound marketing strategy as well.

Ali Parandeh: 01:06:28

The entire marketing around using content.

Ali Parandeh: 01:06:32

they

Vit Muller: 01:06:32

They've got really good…

Ali Parandeh: 01:06:33

teams.

Ali Parandeh: 01:06:34

Yeah

Vit Muller: 01:06:35

I remember one of their lead magnets was originally one

Vit Muller: 01:06:37

of my tools in my toolbox, and it was for creating email signatures.

Vit Muller: 01:06:41

And it was just a free lead magnet that you have to give them an email to, to get

Vit Muller: 01:06:46

the code, but then you had a beautiful email signature that you could just use.

Vit Muller: 01:06:50

So yeah, that's a, that's my type of like favorite, type of marketing is

Vit Muller: 01:06:55

inbound, is getting people to come to me because the quality of, or the

Vit Muller: 01:07:01

value that, that's being provided through the content marketing.

Vit Muller: 01:07:05

I'm a big fan of that.

Vit Muller: 01:07:06

I'm not as much fan of outbound, but you kind of have to do both if you

Vit Muller: 01:07:11

wanna really, make it work long term.

Vit Muller: 01:07:13

But,

Ali Parandeh: 01:07:14

yeah, I'm thinking if you're st- if you're early in the journey, you

Ali Parandeh: 01:07:16

gotta do more outbound, unfortunately.

Ali Parandeh: 01:07:18

So that means you gotta go on Sales Navigator and send

Ali Parandeh: 01:07:22

emails and just do sales.

Ali Parandeh: 01:07:24

But as your pr- as your offers are becoming more mature and they become more

Ali Parandeh: 01:07:28

established and there is a demand for it, you can then start doing more inbound.

Ali Parandeh: 01:07:33

and I think going forward, the inbound PDFs are kinda starting to die down in

Ali Parandeh: 01:07:37

terms of like how, effective they are as a

Vit Muller: 01:07:41

get an ebook for your

Ali Parandeh: 01:07:42

Yeah,

Vit Muller: 01:07:42

here

Ali Parandeh: 01:07:43

ev- like people might download them, but they're like,

Ali Parandeh: 01:07:45

they're just gonna drop them into a folder and forget about them.

Ali Parandeh: 01:07:47

Whereas I think going forward, it's more about personalized, personalized lead

Ali Parandeh: 01:07:51

magnets that's gonna be really sticky.

Ali Parandeh: 01:07:53

So think about cloud skills that you can provide based on your framework.

Ali Parandeh: 01:07:58

Think about if you can build them a tool, you were saying about the

Ali Parandeh: 01:08:01

email signature hotspot created, and then you give them an email for that.

Ali Parandeh: 01:08:05

So if you can build these tools on your website based on your frameworks,

Ali Parandeh: 01:08:09

like diagnostic quizzes and checklists, that personalize based on the answers

Ali Parandeh: 01:08:14

they give, and then you blur their results until they give the email.

Ali Parandeh: 01:08:18

Or you give them like a high-level result and then the details they need to

Ali Parandeh: 01:08:21

give an email to get a detailed report.

Ali Parandeh: 01:08:23

So one of the things I've done with my website is like basically an assessment

Ali Parandeh: 01:08:26

where, for companies who wanna see like how good they are in terms of like

Ali Parandeh: 01:08:30

their, maturity in terms of AI, like whether they've got policies in place,

Ali Parandeh: 01:08:33

are they safe and things like that.

Ali Parandeh: 01:08:35

They go and answer 20 questions and they get a really like detailed report sent to

Ali Parandeh: 01:08:39

them around vision, around data readiness and around, capability of their team.

Vit Muller: 01:08:45

So there's one thing that we discussed before we jump on, to hit record

Vit Muller: 01:08:50

on this, is to provide you guys listening with a bit of a, a bit of an offer.

Vit Muller: 01:08:56

Is this what we've talked about?

Vit Muller: 01:08:58

Did you wanna

Ali Parandeh: 01:08:59

Yeah, I can show them,

Vit Muller: 01:09:00

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:09:00

Do you wanna share a screen and the assessment?

Vit Muller: 01:09:03

'Cause I think that I looked at it briefly and I think it makes a lot of sense.

Vit Muller: 01:09:07

A-a-and from my understanding, from the quick look over when I looked

Vit Muller: 01:09:10

at it, it was, it covers areas of security, trust, and all those things

Vit Muller: 01:09:15

that are going to be more important to businesses as well, right?

Vit Muller: 01:09:19

Brilliant.

Ali Parandeh: 01:09:20

Let me see if you can see my screen

Vit Muller: 01:09:24

Yes, that's it

Ali Parandeh: 01:09:25

Perfect.

Ali Parandeh: 01:09:26

basically I've got, So this is my website.

Ali Parandeh: 01:09:28

On my website, one of the actions you can take beyond booking consultation

Ali Parandeh: 01:09:33

is go and do this assessment.

Ali Parandeh: 01:09:35

basically it's for, both consultancies and enterprises who are

Ali Parandeh: 01:09:39

interested to start using more AI.

Ali Parandeh: 01:09:42

And the way I've, set up this assessment is that it goes across

Ali Parandeh: 01:09:46

four different areas and checks,

Vit Muller: 01:09:48

There's just one thing that's just, overlay, a little

Vit Muller: 01:09:51

window overlaying your website.

Vit Muller: 01:09:53

If you just move it off to the side a little bit.

Vit Muller: 01:09:55

It's just a little riverside… Yeah, that little riverside window.

Vit Muller: 01:09:59

Yeah, that thing.

Vit Muller: 01:10:01

Yeah, that thing.

Vit Muller: 01:10:01

If you just move it

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:02

Ah, okay.

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:03

I see.

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:04

Let me close it.

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:04

There you go.

Vit Muller: 01:10:06

All right,

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:06

Is it better?

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:07

Yeah.

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:08

That's perfect.

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:09

So yeah, like essentially, this is for, companies to wanna get some results

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:12

around what they think, what we need to do additionally in terms of making

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:16

sure that you're reducing your risk when it comes to implementing AI.

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:19

So if you're a CEO, head of a company, someone like, responsible for getting

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:24

more AI adopted in the company, it asks you a bunch of questions to

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:28

understand where you are in terms of your strategy vision, governance, data

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:32

controls, if you've got policies in place, how good your data is in this.

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:36

It like, do you have a good data readiness if you wanna im-implement

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:39

digital brains where AI systems are connected to various sources?

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:43

And then how, literate your, AI, your team is when it comes to AI tools.

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:48

do they understand how to use it safely?

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:50

Are they gonna be putting correct info into the right places, and so on.

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:54

So when you finish it, essentially what it gives you is like a

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:56

report that looks like this.

Ali Parandeh: 01:10:58

So it gives you like scores, based on your strategy, governance,

Ali Parandeh: 01:11:02

your data and your team.

Ali Parandeh: 01:11:04

And this is like takes, I don't know, two minutes to complete.

Ali Parandeh: 01:11:07

So it's fair, 20 questions.

Ali Parandeh: 01:11:09

and those questions are detailed enough to give you different options

Ali Parandeh: 01:11:11

in terms of which one is there.

Ali Parandeh: 01:11:14

it gives you the results without you having to put your, full details in.

Ali Parandeh: 01:11:18

But if you want the full details like that, like full, like detailed, like

Ali Parandeh: 01:11:23

elements of each key risk and key recommended action and an overall

Ali Parandeh: 01:11:26

summary for the top priority steps, you need to put your details in and then

Ali Parandeh: 01:11:30

AI will send you the report in email

Vit Muller: 01:11:31

This is brilliant.

Ali Parandeh: 01:11:33

And, you get a free bonus as well at the end.

Ali Parandeh: 01:11:35

So if you need to get… Normally if you did a good lead magnets,

Ali Parandeh: 01:11:37

put a free bonus as well.

Ali Parandeh: 01:11:38

So here you would get a report based on like sources like HBR, Harvard

Ali Parandeh: 01:11:44

Business Review, and bunch of other sources why, AI might st- AI pilots

Ali Parandeh: 01:11:48

fail and might stall in companies

Vit Muller: 01:11:50

Yeah, I liked it.

Vit Muller: 01:11:51

And what I like about the, this page that you've built is how it's

Vit Muller: 01:11:55

really focused on your target market

Ali Parandeh: 01:11:57

Yeah.

Ali Parandeh: 01:11:57

Yeah, and

Vit Muller: 01:11:58

organizations and

Ali Parandeh: 01:12:00

the beautiful thing is you can build these,

Ali Parandeh: 01:12:03

there are software out there.

Ali Parandeh: 01:12:05

They're like, there is a software called ScoreApp that you can use to

Ali Parandeh: 01:12:07

build quizzes, but you need to then pay them 30 pounds, 40 pounds a month.

Ali Parandeh: 01:12:11

This I built using Cloud code

Vit Muller: 01:12:13

So here's something you're gonna laugh.

Vit Muller: 01:12:16

I know about ScoreUp, and when I was trying to build a lead magnet, it

Vit Muller: 01:12:19

was about actually four years ago.

Vit Muller: 01:12:21

If you open up another browser tab on your website there and

Vit Muller: 01:12:25

go to standoutfromthepack.com.au

Vit Muller: 01:12:27

. Ali Parandeh: eu

Vit Muller: 01:12:27

. Vit Muller: com.au, sorry.

Vit Muller: 01:12:28

Yeah, you got it.

Vit Muller: 01:12:29

there is, up the, in the menu, get fr- get free audit

Ali Parandeh: 01:12:33

Well, I like it

Vit Muller: 01:12:34

Right there.

Vit Muller: 01:12:35

So now what I wa- what I was g- I was gonna comment on your

Vit Muller: 01:12:39

page that you were showing.

Vit Muller: 01:12:39

What I like about what your page does, it has visuals of what

Vit Muller: 01:12:44

the actual report looks like.

Vit Muller: 01:12:47

Mine does touch it, touch on that a little bit, but I think, that's--

Vit Muller: 01:12:52

it's like something that's like tangible, like this is what you get.

Vit Muller: 01:12:54

I think that's a really good one.

Vit Muller: 01:12:56

But basically what I've done there is it's a survey with 20

Vit Muller: 01:12:59

rapid fire yes/no questions,

Ali Parandeh: 01:13:02

Yeah

Vit Muller: 01:13:02

completed building inside HighLevel.

Vit Muller: 01:13:04

one question that's open-ended, most of them are yes/no, and then there's another

Vit Muller: 01:13:09

question with just a selector of different software tools that the company has used.

Vit Muller: 01:13:13

And then at the end they just fill their details, and then that's how

Vit Muller: 01:13:16

they submit and they get results.

Vit Muller: 01:13:18

they're taken to a thank you page which just says, "Cool. Your actual

Vit Muller: 01:13:21

results will be sent through in an email. but in the meantime, like book a

Vit Muller: 01:13:25

call, so we can go through, go through it with you over th- on the call."

Vit Muller: 01:13:29

Now what I've done is I've built an automation in the back end that uses AI.

Vit Muller: 01:13:34

I've basically injected into the prompt all the different, quest- answers

Vit Muller: 01:13:38

from all the different questions for AI to analyze, how they answered.

Vit Muller: 01:13:43

And this particular one gives you… You've got categories, so my one's

Vit Muller: 01:13:47

got categories too, as, lead gen, marketing, sales, and I think that's it.

Vit Muller: 01:13:51

So three categories, and you get like an overall score.

Vit Muller: 01:13:54

Each category is a combination of e-eight questions, s- and then you

Vit Muller: 01:13:58

also get like an overall score as well.

Vit Muller: 01:14:01

yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:14:02

It's just, interesting 'cause when you were talking about ScoreUp,

Vit Muller: 01:14:04

this is exactly why I built it.

Vit Muller: 01:14:06

It's like I'm a big nerd, I like the challenge.

Vit Muller: 01:14:08

It's like I could u- I could sign up for ScoreUp, but you know what?

Vit Muller: 01:14:13

let me push this thing.

Vit Muller: 01:14:14

Let me push this thing called HighLevel.

Vit Muller: 01:14:15

How much can I, how much can I do with this?

Vit Muller: 01:14:19

And, And yeah, so that's…

Ali Parandeh: 01:14:21

Yeah, this is pretty good

Vit Muller: 01:14:22

Yeah, the UI could be better.

Vit Muller: 01:14:23

I mean, there's always improvements, but, you just put your details

Vit Muller: 01:14:26

in there and then it sends you…

Vit Muller: 01:14:27

You can do that later if you wanna have a look at it actually.

Vit Muller: 01:14:29

it takes

Ali Parandeh: 01:14:30

do it properly because I just answered a bunch of randomly.

Vit Muller: 01:14:33

yeah.

Ali Parandeh: 01:14:33

wanna actually get the proper results.

Vit Muller: 01:14:35

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:14:36

But back to this one.

Vit Muller: 01:14:37

So this is great.

Vit Muller: 01:14:38

you know what?

Vit Muller: 01:14:38

When I looked at it as well, what made me think right away is

Vit Muller: 01:14:42

enterprise and mid-sized enterprise.

Vit Muller: 01:14:45

Like we don't go after those clients.

Vit Muller: 01:14:47

Most of us HighLevelers, we go after, trade businesses, home

Vit Muller: 01:14:51

services, gyms and, things like that.

Vit Muller: 01:14:54

But I'm, I am very interested in enterprise clients as well, like maybe

Vit Muller: 01:14:57

not top enterprise, but like middle.

Vit Muller: 01:15:00

and there's one thing that's really exciting that's brewing.

Vit Muller: 01:15:03

I spoke to the owners of HighLevel a couple times when I was at the

Vit Muller: 01:15:07

Level Up Summit in Dallas, and I said to them, "Hey s- there's certain

Vit Muller: 01:15:10

requirements by certain countries.

Vit Muller: 01:15:10

Like for example, when I was living in Australia, I was living in Canberra.

Vit Muller: 01:15:14

Canberra is very, um, public workers.

Vit Muller: 01:15:18

There's a lot of government organizations, there's defense, and so

Vit Muller: 01:15:21

businesses have contracts with defense.

Vit Muller: 01:15:24

I can't have them as a client because they've got certain requirements such as

Vit Muller: 01:15:28

data being stored locally, being able to, have the servers in Australia, Microsoft

Vit Muller: 01:15:34

a- another one, things like that.

Vit Muller: 01:15:36

So I spoke to them and they've told me they are working on an enterprise,

Vit Muller: 01:15:42

capabilities with HighLevel, that, that would, yeah, that would be available.

Vit Muller: 01:15:46

So having a lead magnet like what you've done, is great.

Vit Muller: 01:15:51

And guys, this is not just about copying what Ali's done.

Vit Muller: 01:15:54

Ali has a very specific market, but I just want you to think about

Vit Muller: 01:15:58

how as you're looking at this, that could also be a market and you just

Vit Muller: 01:16:02

have to, come up with your own lead magnet and relevance to that market.

Vit Muller: 01:16:07

I would certainly not go after engineering 'cause I got no, background in that.

Vit Muller: 01:16:11

And you have to have, you have to have some credibility,

Ali Parandeh: 01:16:14

So in terms of pos-positioning, the reason

Ali Parandeh: 01:16:17

I went after engineering is because it's lower competition.

Ali Parandeh: 01:16:20

that's the only strategic reason, because you need to have engineering

Ali Parandeh: 01:16:24

background to be able to understand and talk the market language.

Ali Parandeh: 01:16:28

and the, AI consultancies, there is a lot of them, and that, that was

Ali Parandeh: 01:16:32

one way I decided to position myself to not have as much competition and

Ali Parandeh: 01:16:36

stand out a bit more in the market.

Ali Parandeh: 01:16:39

And I would suggest look at your own founder background and try to

Ali Parandeh: 01:16:43

find a founder-market fit, mar-- founder-product-market fit, basically.

Ali Parandeh: 01:16:48

Like three event diagram.

Ali Parandeh: 01:16:49

Create event diagram and figure out where the middle ground

Ali Parandeh: 01:16:52

is between all of the three.

Ali Parandeh: 01:16:53

So for me, my background, heavy engineering, heavy AI, so AI

Ali Parandeh: 01:16:57

consultancy and training was one.

Ali Parandeh: 01:16:59

Then, the market was engineering.

Ali Parandeh: 01:17:01

I could go after retail, finance, there's, all the other ones that pay more and

Ali Parandeh: 01:17:06

there, there is there, but there's a lot of other consultancies in there.

Ali Parandeh: 01:17:10

And also the product, which is basically the four-step, process I created for this.

Ali Parandeh: 01:17:14

So creating some kind of IP and a standardized process where you deliver

Ali Parandeh: 01:17:18

your services or your products.

Ali Parandeh: 01:17:20

and this was like a lead magnet where, I decided to create, and this is basically

Ali Parandeh: 01:17:25

how it gives you like the results

Vit Muller: 01:17:27

I like this.

Vit Muller: 01:17:28

So you're not asking for their details.

Vit Muller: 01:17:30

This is an optional extra if they want a full report.

Vit Muller: 01:17:33

I wasn't able to crack, I wasn't able to crack that on a HighLevel

Vit Muller: 01:17:36

site on how the results will be generated on a thank you page, which

Vit Muller: 01:17:40

is why I sent it through an email.

Vit Muller: 01:17:41

But you've

Ali Parandeh: 01:17:42

So ob-ob-so obviously this is cloud code,

Ali Parandeh: 01:17:45

so you get full customization.

Ali Parandeh: 01:17:47

So one of the things this does, once I submit this, the results of the report,

Ali Parandeh: 01:17:51

like a full report is generated on my Notion website where I can, on my Notion

Ali Parandeh: 01:17:57

to be able to see what the customer has responded to and like an entire like fully

Ali Parandeh: 01:18:01

report generated, what their problems are.

Ali Parandeh: 01:18:03

They get then that there is a sequence in Brevo where they get put in.

Ali Parandeh: 01:18:08

So I have, my email funnel in Brevo, and they essentially get put in

Ali Parandeh: 01:18:12

through an email sequence in Brevo,

Vit Muller: 01:18:14

Mm-hmm.

Ali Parandeh: 01:18:14

where they get sent the report once they provide their

Ali Parandeh: 01:18:17

details, as well as that lead magnet.

Ali Parandeh: 01:18:20

And then there is a three-day, five-day, and seven-day sequence to warm them

Ali Parandeh: 01:18:24

up into, booking a consultation

Vit Muller: 01:18:26

Great.

Vit Muller: 01:18:27

Good classic lead nurture sequence.

Vit Muller: 01:18:29

So important.

Ali Parandeh: 01:18:30

It's a lead nurture sequence, yeah

Vit Muller: 01:18:31

still amazing how many businesses don't

Vit Muller: 01:18:34

have lead nurture in place.

Vit Muller: 01:18:35

So yeah, well done.

Vit Muller: 01:18:37

This is great.

Vit Muller: 01:18:37

we're gonna, we're gonna put it, for you guys so you can look at it.

Vit Muller: 01:18:40

let me just get… Yeah, sweet.

Vit Muller: 01:18:41

Awesome.

Vit Muller: 01:18:42

Thanks.

Vit Muller: 01:18:42

so guys, if you wanna just for inspiration, or if you're listening

Vit Muller: 01:18:45

and you are literally an enterprise business in an engineering industry, then

Vit Muller: 01:18:51

that's a, that's a place you need to go.

Vit Muller: 01:18:53

but in general for anybody, just head over to What was the AI readiness?

Vit Muller: 01:18:59

Was it AI

Ali Parandeh: 01:19:00

It is buildyourai.com/assessment

Vit Muller: 01:19:02

AI assess-

Vit Muller: 01:19:04

/ Ali Parandeh: assessment.

Vit Muller: 01:19:05

So buildyourai.com/assessment

Vit Muller: 01:19:06

Awesome.

Vit Muller: 01:19:08

Right.

Vit Muller: 01:19:08

So you can go to that or you can go to highlevelexperience.com/aiassessment.

Vit Muller: 01:19:15

cool with either.

Vit Muller: 01:19:16

by going to the highlevelexperience.com/aiassessment,

Vit Muller: 01:19:19

you'll be able to, have access to additional goodies that we provide to all

Vit Muller: 01:19:24

our listeners, and you can also explore some of our sponsor, sponsored offers.

Vit Muller: 01:19:29

And now, Ali, thank you so much, mate.

Vit Muller: 01:19:31

we are at the end.

Vit Muller: 01:19:32

this was insightful.

Ali Parandeh: 01:19:34

It was very good.

Ali Parandeh: 01:19:34

Thank you so much.

Ali Parandeh: 01:19:35

It was insightful for me as well.

Ali Parandeh: 01:19:36

I didn't-- I learned a lot about the double diamond technique

Vit Muller: 01:19:40

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:19:41

yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:19:41

No, that's great.

Vit Muller: 01:19:42

so yeah, we've dove into a lot of, categories.

Vit Muller: 01:19:44

I feel like towards the end, we really started to squeeze a lot of juice with

Vit Muller: 01:19:46

some practical, use cases, sharing, your, your lead magnet, your journey.

Vit Muller: 01:19:52

We talked about, the sales process, how you sell high

Vit Muller: 01:19:55

ticket, how I sell high ticket.

Vit Muller: 01:19:57

so there's some real valuable, some real applicable practical information that

Vit Muller: 01:20:02

we've covered on this podcast, guys.

Vit Muller: 01:20:04

I know that sometimes, things can get lost in translation because this is

Vit Muller: 01:20:07

a conversational style and there's, there's words between the real nuggets.

Vit Muller: 01:20:14

but that's kinda how it goes, my tip to you guys, if you want, and I've-- I

Vit Muller: 01:20:17

think I mentioned it on the last episode as well, is this podcast, we're on

Vit Muller: 01:20:21

YouTube, we're, you can listen anywhere, but if you head over to our website,

Vit Muller: 01:20:25

podcast.highlevelexperience.com, you can actually go through every single

Vit Muller: 01:20:31

episode and there is a rich, content.

Vit Muller: 01:20:34

There is ready-to-copy transcripts.

Vit Muller: 01:20:37

So you can just copy the transcripts, run it through your Claude,

Vit Muller: 01:20:41

right, ChatGPT, whatever you want.

Vit Muller: 01:20:43

And I promise you that in every single episode, there is a real

Vit Muller: 01:20:47

strategy, real applicable strategy.

Vit Muller: 01:20:50

We are, past episode 100 now.

Vit Muller: 01:20:53

We've had 190, an hour to 90-minute-long interviews each.

Vit Muller: 01:20:58

We've spent over 800 hours on this podcast at this point.

Vit Muller: 01:21:02

Every time i-interviewing somebody from either the HighLevel,

Vit Muller: 01:21:06

community, fellow agency owners, vendors, top-level affiliates.

Vit Muller: 01:21:12

there's been so many experts by this point.

Vit Muller: 01:21:14

So all I'm trying to say is if you're struggling with your

Vit Muller: 01:21:19

marketing business or your business in general, just go through it.

Vit Muller: 01:21:24

There's a search function.

Vit Muller: 01:21:25

You'll find what you're looking for, and then a lot of these are

Vit Muller: 01:21:29

very timeless, strategies as well.

Vit Muller: 01:21:31

So it's just a little tip for you guys.

Vit Muller: 01:21:34

make sure that you apply, something from every episode.

Vit Muller: 01:21:38

And just like Matt Deseno's, newsletter called Margin Makers, just making a

Vit Muller: 01:21:45

small little marginal improvements week by week makes a tremendous

Vit Muller: 01:21:49

amount of an upside, when you look at it back at the end of the year.

Vit Muller: 01:21:53

So, Ali, thank you so much again.

Vit Muller: 01:21:57

If there's any-anything, you'd like to leave the audience with, any last piece

Vit Muller: 01:22:01

of advice, now would be a good time.

Ali Parandeh: 01:22:03

No, thank you very much.

Ali Parandeh: 01:22:04

I would say, the main thing would be to keep experimenting with these tools.

Ali Parandeh: 01:22:09

one of the things I would suggest that I think we didn't cover is one of the good

Ali Parandeh: 01:22:13

exercises to do for your business is to sit down and map out all the workflows

Ali Parandeh: 01:22:19

for each department in your business.

Ali Parandeh: 01:22:21

So when you look at your organizational chart, you will bas-basically break

Ali Parandeh: 01:22:24

down your business into departments.

Ali Parandeh: 01:22:26

Each department consists of multiple workflows, and each

Ali Parandeh: 01:22:29

workflow consists of steps.

Ali Parandeh: 01:22:31

For each step, review if that step can be AI assisted or AI automated.

Ali Parandeh: 01:22:38

And this is essentially how you can map, automations to different workflows and

Ali Parandeh: 01:22:42

different steps to gradually move your business from AI adoption towards, full

Ali Parandeh: 01:22:47

AI automation and mature higher maturity.

Ali Parandeh: 01:22:50

So instead of, like doing stuff manually, you can essentially use the system

Ali Parandeh: 01:22:53

to figure out exactly which parts of your business you can automate.

Ali Parandeh: 01:22:56

And yeah, like definitely check out my assessment, buildyourai.com/assessment,

Ali Parandeh: 01:23:01

and definitely check out, Vit's, the Go High Level podcast as well.

Ali Parandeh: 01:23:04

What was the URL again, Vit?

Ali Parandeh: 01:23:06

Vit Muller: highlevelexperience.com/aiassessment

Ali Parandeh: 01:23:08

GoHighLevel experience dot, forward.

Ali Parandeh: 01:23:11

And

Vit Muller: 01:23:11

go.

Vit Muller: 01:23:11

just HighLevel.

Ali Parandeh: 01:23:12

GoHigh-- okay.

Ali Parandeh: 01:23:13

And then also, what was the, podcast's link if people need to download

Vit Muller: 01:23:18

so that's, podcast.highlevelexper-

Vit Muller: 01:23:21

it's just a subdomain, podcast.highlevelexperience.com.

Vit Muller: 01:23:25

Yep.

Vit Muller: 01:23:25

brilliant.

Vit Muller: 01:23:26

Well, that was a great tip.

Vit Muller: 01:23:27

I like that.

Vit Muller: 01:23:28

I'm gonna, I'm gonna add extra layer to it, which is, my favorite what Elon

Vit Muller: 01:23:32

Musk says in his current organizations, every day they look at something

Vit Muller: 01:23:36

they can remove to keep it really lean, because I'm a big fan of lean.

Vit Muller: 01:23:40

And recently I've… one of those things, I've looked at my onboarding sequence,

Vit Muller: 01:23:47

'cause I've been getting a lot of feedback from customers that they get overwhelmed

Vit Muller: 01:23:51

by way too many emails, in the first two days when they subscribe to us.

Vit Muller: 01:23:56

And my thought was, "Well, I wanna make sure they're really well-educated."

Vit Muller: 01:24:00

And it was actually creating, a negative experience.

Vit Muller: 01:24:03

even though I felt all well and good, you gotta take the feedback to heart, and so

Vit Muller: 01:24:08

I just removed five unnecessary emails.

Vit Muller: 01:24:10

Some of them I removed, and some of them I spread out into a later

Vit Muller: 01:24:14

date, just changed my wait steps.

Vit Muller: 01:24:16

And now the customers are not as overwhelmed.

Vit Muller: 01:24:18

So yeah, think about how you can automate the business more for better

Vit Muller: 01:24:22

profitability, but also look at the experience of your customers, or parts in

Vit Muller: 01:24:28

your business or processes that are just way too complex that maybe don't need,

Vit Muller: 01:24:33

not need to be so that you can have more lean, all for the name of leaner business.

Vit Muller: 01:24:37

Thank you so much, Ali.

Vit Muller: 01:24:38

Thank you for being on the show, mate.

Vit Muller: 01:24:40

I really appreciate

Ali Parandeh: 01:24:41

much for having me

Vit Muller: 01:24:42

sharing your journey.

Vit Muller: 01:24:43

It's been very insightful.

Vit Muller: 01:24:45

And, yeah, we're at the end, guys, so thank you so much as well, to

Vit Muller: 01:24:49

everybody that's listening, to today's episode on The HighLevel Experience.

Vit Muller: 01:24:52

If you've enjoyed today's episode, then please share it with your fellow agency

Vit Muller: 01:24:56

mates and other HighLevelers that you think would also benefit from listening.

Vit Muller: 01:24:59

For show notes, links, and extra tips to help you grow your agency

Vit Muller: 01:25:02

or your SaaS with HighLevel, please go to highlevelexperience.com.

Vit Muller: 01:25:07

Thank you, and have a great rest of your day, everybody.