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Hello everybody.

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Welcome to another episode on the High Level Experience Podcast.

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Our guest today is a visionary leader and true advocate for maximizing

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efficiency and value in SaaS platforms.

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Working with hundreds of diamond and gold SaaS agencies, he has dedicated his

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care to enhancing how agencies interact with technology to drive success.

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A firm believer in the power of high level, he contents that scaling your

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business does not require compromising the quality of your product.

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With a strategic approach, he demonstrates how to leverage high level to its fullest

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potential, entering his clients not only meet but exceed their business goals.

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Please welcome to the show, the one and only resident talker, Michael Pacitto.

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Wow.

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Thank you so much, Ben.

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It's so good to be back.

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My dude.

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Yeah.

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How long has it been, man?

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Whatever it is.

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It's too long.

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It's whatever has been, it's too long.

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But yeah, no, it feels like it's been a year or two.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, we talked about like we have to do another one in a few months

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and then, and then it didn't happen.

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Right.

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And there's something to say about that.

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I mean, I've been crazy busy.

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You've been crazy busy.

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You've been doing stuff.

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What's been

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happening in your

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a, isn't that a, like the typical adult thing?

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Like adult language is like messaging all your friends that, hey, we should

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get together sometime and then never doing, like, isn't that like the

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definition of adulthood at this point?

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totally.

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Especially when you got kids, you got family.

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It's like, that's no, that's, no, that's no time for anything.

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Like, I, I don't remember the last time I just went out to the pub with a mate.

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Like it's just, it's just not happened happened these days, which, which is, you

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know, obviously that's a reality part.

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It's a reality that I wanna do something, but I'm sure a lot of people relate and,

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um, I mean, what are the options, right?

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We just gotta automate, automate, automate, delegate, grow, streamline,

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automate my friendships.

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Automate my friendships.

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How can, how can we do that?

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No.

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No, I meant like, as a result of I've got more free time.

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Right.

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So,

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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Sorry.

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Talk about the antisocial, uh, person here, I guess saying like,

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can I automate my friendships?

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How would I do that?

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Maybe with chat, GBT.

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people are already doing that.

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That's crazy, right?

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You got, have you seen those arts, those uh, virtual girlfriends,

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these AI girlfriends, those like.

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I'm trying my best not to, trying my absolute best.

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Well, it's right.

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It goes into the, uh, the idea of, of what's actually happening with all

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these tools that we're doing, right?

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Because you have a person that's using AI to summarize a comp, a

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topic he doesn't know about, and to write a whole and to help write 'em

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a thousand pages on something that he doesn't know to give to somebody.

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He uses AI to condense it back down so that he doesn't have to read

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the thousand pages so that he can then take that and go and send it

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out as content using AI to post it.

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It's like, but where's the value being create?

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Where's the actual value?

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You know, at some

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who's actually consuming it?

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Is it just SEO algorithm search using it to tune for breakfast?

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Nobody else reading it.

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It is scary.

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I mean, this is where it's going right?

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With just so much content.

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It, it, it, it will come to time where people are just not

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consuming or not reading stuff.

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They just watching videos.

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'cause that's an easy content you can see.

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I actually heard, and something is one of my clients that I was working

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with, and I loved his philosophy.

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He had this idea that, uh, he uses high level and he has it and he

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sells it to a lot of his clients.

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But what he tells 'em is, is there's certain parts that he doesn't automate it.

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He doesn't wanna automate them.

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I think it's in the review, management.

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And he straight up said to me, he's like, you know, it would actually

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be better if I automated this.

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Like, you know, obviously this is something that doesn't actually need

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to be done by a human, but the value of the reason why I don't, I tell people to

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not automate the reviews is because I, the philosophy is I want them to spend

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time thinking about, and I want them to spend their time invested in their

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clients because there's a habit you build.

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I. Being connected with the people you're sending messages out to

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that is more valuable than the actual work that you're doing.

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And this, so when we're thinking about the automation, it gets me starts often

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thinking about not just what are we automating, what's the outcome of it,

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but what is the process of making that?

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What is the whole user journey or what's that whole experience and

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what are we actually automating out?

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Because, and there is something valuable about that, right?

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Because at some point, if you need, yes, you automate the things

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that, some things you shouldn't, you should automate and reviews,

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you know, that could be debatable.

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But, that one really struck with me and, and I've been thinking

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about that for a while now.

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That's a good point because like, you know, if you can get, if you can get

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in front of a person and have that real conversation, that's always gonna be super

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valuable, be building a report and lot of amazing opportunities happen, which

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is why I like to do podcasts, right?

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So if we talk about a business, right?

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You try and try to convert a late, oftentimes people like lates on

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the back of an app, they don't wanna talk to you right away.

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And it's like a percentage that we have to get through.

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But yeah, like there are, there are opportunities in that.

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User journey that are a lot easier and it's almost like presented to

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you on a silver platter where it's so easy to actually be able to get

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in front of 'em and talk to them.

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And I think that one might be a good one.

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Like you said, if somebody does write you a review or not even, like if somebody,

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yeah, if somebody mentions the, at the end of the job job completely, they mentioned,

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you know, like, hey, this is great.

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let just have a conversation with 'em on Zoom.

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Just talk to them, Hey, what, what did you like about it particular?

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And, and get more, you know, get that and plus you're creating a

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video testimony on the back of it.

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They even realizing it.

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Right.

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And then the end you say, Hey, by the way, those also things you mentioned.

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Would it be okay if I repurposed that?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Hey, by the way, would it be okay if I just send you a little thing that you

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could just post on Google, like what you said, you don't have to write or anything?

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Yeah, that'd be great.

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Yeah.

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Save me me time.

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Yeah.

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So now you still can get, but it's not automated, right?

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But that's okay.

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So it's not automated.

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Is that a problem?

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That's the topic of today's discussion of this particular discussion right now.

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Right?

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What do you guys think?

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We'd love to know what you guys think.

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Listening is like.

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How much is, how much is, is too much when it comes to automations.

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Uh, if you watch this on YouTube coming below.

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If you are listening on another platform coming below.

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'cause that is, I think, yeah, we, we struck a chord on something.

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I, I actually didn't even set like, it's gonna sound that I totally set

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this up, but I was just thinking about the, what we just said earlier, right?

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Automating your friends,

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Oh yeah.

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It's like you could stay in perfect communication with all your friends and

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you could probably automate a lot of the more frivolous back and forth and

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responses and all that, but it's missing.

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There's something that's gonna be missing.

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Right?

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I, I didn't even think like that was not planned, but it

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like, think about that, right?

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So Yeah.

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because like you think about you're running a business, like how do

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you keep the finger on the pulse?

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If everything is automated.

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And with the recent upgrades, like was it last week, a week ago, Sean

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announced this new thing, this new thing available that you can plug

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servers.

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MCP servers.

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I mean, where are we going with this?

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This means like you don't even have to manage the crm.

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We don't have to log in.

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It's just gonna be this Paneras books that you rely on that does stuff.

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But like zero touch points.

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Is that what we want?

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Well, I think

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what?

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it's going to,

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and, and, and also like I know where we all going with this.

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This is what we are passionate about.

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Automation is because leverage right scale, but at what point

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it becomes a detriment to like how much we automate that scale.

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At what point it's actually, to a detriment with, with

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actually profitability.

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Right.

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I think what it's gonna reveal very quickly is we're going to realize who's

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been actually creating value in high level and who's been just chasing the

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quick sale and the arbitrage of connecting people to software that people, uh,

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could just do, figure out on their own, but are too lazy or not, they just

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don't have access to that information.

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Sort of like the first people, who discovered how to use

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Google search when everyone else was in still not even online.

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Those people had a massive advantage and of.

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Literally doing Google searches and passing that off as research.

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And the only thing that they're doing is doing something that

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everyone could do, they just haven't figured out that you could do yet.

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And I think with high level, that's what we've really run into where a

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lot of people are selling a product that it, yes, it is gonna change a

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lot of people's business and there is value in being the person that found

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high level and connected them to the right product, to the right customer.

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But things like the MCP stuff, automating a lot of those basic

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functions is going to put a lot of those sorts of people out of a job.

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And the people that I think are gonna survive a more automated high level

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are people that actually understand where value's created and what

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problems actually need to be solved.

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When you could solve, when you could solve every single problem.

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And every single problem is now solvable because the AI allows

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you to get rid of the technology.

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The focus is now on.

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Well, which problems do you solve and how well do you solve it?

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And how well do you, you know, it's like how well can you actually solve those

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problems and which problems you solve?

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And people that don't know what problems to solve, I think will be very clear.

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when, uh, I think it'll be very clear between those two people.

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Yeah.

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Well, let's unpack that because we might have people who are listening

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and they might fall into that bucket.

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how would you approach that?

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I think when it comes down to still asking the right questions, that

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would be the first place, like communicating with the clients,

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asking the right questions, right.

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yeah.

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Oh, sorry.

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I think there's just a little bit of delay there.

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yeah.

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So the first thing is it goes, it's basic 1 0 1 business stuff, which is

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you need to know your target market.

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You need to have an advantage over your competition because.

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A lot of people think about what problems they wanna solve and what are they doing.

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but one of the questions, and I can't remember who said it, you have

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to ask the question of how is my competition going to respond once

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I bring this product to market?

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Right?

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So maybe your idea is new.

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Let's assume that you, you don't just have to think about, well,

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how do I launch this thing?

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You also have to think about, well, how is the competition gonna

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respond when they see it, and are they gonna be able to replicate it?

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we've seen it in the Kickstarter business, right?

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Some, you know, person in a more western country spends two years, five years

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developing this, this groundbreaking new Gidget or Wi Gizmo, and he puts

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it up on Kickstarter to get money to be able to launch it and within.

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One month of him just raising funds to go and build it.

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Some company in China sees it goes, that's a great idea.

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We could just build that right now.

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And it goes and sells the product before his Kickstarter is even finished.

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Right?

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So I think with a, so, and that's happened all the time, right?

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I haven't picked up on that, Trent.

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That's, yeah, that's, I mean, that makes sense.

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Yeah.

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yeah.

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Right.

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So think about that.

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That's a real thing that's been happening for decades, but centuries even.

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Right?

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People get an idea, they put it out in the world, but they, how

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does the competition respond?

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And the competition now has resources up the ying yang.

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There's people out here in this high level community that have, like ungodly

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ai, tech supports, tech technical skills.

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They got, they know how to build all these really cool things and.

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They so they can, they can look at what's happening.

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And now with AI, they can scale up ideas and build things really fast.

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So the value of what we're bringing now, there's gotta be more than

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just the technical otherwise.

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'cause if it's just the technical, the competition's gonna move real fast and

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it's gonna move faster than ever before.

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I look at that like I, I think I'm pretty good, like with strategy

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and unpacking what needs to be done when I'm talking to our clients and

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mapping it out visually and then coming out with some custom solution.

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What I have been feeling as of light, I have to admit, is like looking at

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like what Mario's posting, what other people are posting about, you know,

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the N eight N and this MCP server.

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And I'm like, Hey, and I'm busy as hell, so I haven't had a time to dive into that.

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I'm like, oh, that sounds like I definitely need to start getting into it,

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because that's gonna be very important.

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That's where things are shifting,

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Yes and no.

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Like, and sorry if I keep jumping in, it just, I, as I

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No, no, it's

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a bit of delay

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a dialogue,

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all the way up here in Canada, right?

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but uh, the, I think there's a yes and no because you should

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be learning spend like 10%.

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Gary V talks about this, right?

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10% of your resources should be tasting new things, right?

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You should be doing that.

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But as fast as everything is moving, I think if you've done the work and

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understand your customer and your problems that need to be solved,

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I think you are already safe, at least for the short to midterm.

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I think if you understand your client and you've done that work using the tools that

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you're using right now, unless you're a giant company, unless you're already at

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the, when you're scaling out to thousands.

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'cause if you're scaling to like.

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First hundred, you, you, your first a hundred clients, your first 200 clients.

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You can have an, the value is the, is your niche, right?

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That's, that's a relatively small amount of clients.

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That's, you know, you have focus, you're still connected with the

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client and there's value there.

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You don't have to worry about a giant clung, ert going out and selling,

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you know, it has a million clients.

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It does everything you do faster, better, and cheaper.

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Right?

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The value is that you've solved the problem.

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You've proven and, and they trust that you solve the problem and you've

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done it and you're in their ecosystem.

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AI can be spun up.

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Yeah, you can spin up businesses by tomorrow, but someone who has the

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technical skills isn't gonna be able to spin up solving the problem and as closely

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have as reliably as you already have.

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So I think people should be experimenting, but I don't think

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you should be trying to outcompete.

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By trying to learn AI faster than everyone, because you won't.

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There's always gonna be people that learn faster if you commit to

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learning about the problem better and articulating that problem.

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I think the tools, the tools become very secondary, very fast in the

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value creation 'cause people just don't care what tools you use.

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They care is it done or not.

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Yeah, definitely.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I, I gotta keep, remind himself of that as well, right?

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Because it's about, it's about.

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Focusing on the problems, what the clients want.

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And, uh, oftentimes it doesn't have to be too complicated, we just focus on,

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on, on, on the most effective solution.

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But

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fun when it is though, isn't it?

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It's fun when it is complicated though.

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because we are there, it's like, you know, we like to do this stuff.

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And it's also like, what is that?

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Is that a shiny syndrome or is that like a valid thing that

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we actually see the future?

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Like, I mean the, with this MCP thing, that's definitely

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something to keep looking at.

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or, or like watch out for, right?

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Because it could change a lot of things.

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We dunno, we don't have the, the, the, the, the magnifying laws or whatever

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we say like to see in the future.

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But, uh, just pure logic, right?

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If I just put my logical brain on, like, if, if, if in near future

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we'll be able to say, Hey, we've got a CRM, we've got this Paneras box.

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We'll build you this.

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Maybe don't call it books.

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That sounds pretty scary, but hey, we can build you a system and you

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don't even have to log into it.

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We've got ai, the conversation, AI has all the follow up.

Speaker: 00:16:39

Now, by the way, guys, if you're listening, if you didn't

Speaker: 00:16:41

know it just went outta lapse.

Speaker: 00:16:43

so you can go figure that for conversation ai, dunno how good

Speaker: 00:16:47

that is, but it's a very, as if anything, it's just gonna get better.

Speaker: 00:16:50

So, you know, if you could said to the business, Hey, we'll it's got all this,

Speaker: 00:16:54

and even it follows up for you, you just didn't have to do anything really,

Speaker: 00:16:58

it's just fulfilling the services.

Speaker: 00:17:00

I think that's gonna be, uh, very, very appealing to a lot of businesses

Speaker: 00:17:06

I, and I think being able to go on.

Speaker: 00:17:08

well, I was just gonna say, just, just, uh, just to add to that is, you know,

Speaker: 00:17:12

like the idea of people being excited about logging in and managing the CRM.

Speaker: 00:17:20

Uh, you know, I think like way back when I was, when I was getting into that, I was

Speaker: 00:17:23

like, I think I had perfect glasses on.

Speaker: 00:17:25

And that's just me.

Speaker: 00:17:26

'cause I'm OCD and I like, like the ability to like, keep everything

Speaker: 00:17:29

and follow up and keep my ducks in a row and stay organized.

Speaker: 00:17:33

I, over the years I realized that, you know, not everybody's like me and

Speaker: 00:17:38

a lot of businesses are not excited, not excited about this at all.

Speaker: 00:17:44

They just want it simple.

Speaker: 00:17:45

They just want to get, they just want the done.

Speaker: 00:17:48

They just want you to sell.

Speaker: 00:17:48

You done.

Speaker: 00:17:49

Like, this is what Bill Jean did.

Speaker: 00:17:50

When did I tell you about that?

Speaker: 00:17:52

We, we, um, you know, in Sydney, two months ago in May, south

Speaker: 00:17:57

Entrepreneur by high level Sapr event.

Speaker: 00:17:59

So I went to that and Billy Jean was in stage and he was saying like,

Speaker: 00:18:02

you know, what do you guys think?

Speaker: 00:18:04

Like the businesses want, just want done.

Speaker: 00:18:07

They want done.

Speaker: 00:18:08

They want easy, they want solution.

Speaker: 00:18:10

They don't want more work.

Speaker: 00:18:11

Don't tell them more work, sell them done.

Speaker: 00:18:14

And he is like, here, I'll prove it to you.

Speaker: 00:18:16

If we know that's what they want done, done means nothing.

Speaker: 00:18:19

They don't wanna do anything, let, let me prove it to you.

Speaker: 00:18:22

And then he showed up a funnel on screen and said, Hey, this is what we did.

Speaker: 00:18:25

A funnel that says once the portal form for $99, you will

Speaker: 00:18:31

purchase nothing worth nothing.

Speaker: 00:18:34

After you purchase, you're gonna get a confirmation receipt confirming

Speaker: 00:18:37

that you've purchased nothing.

Speaker: 00:18:38

And how many, how many guess he sold?

Speaker: 00:18:42

He sold like 5,000 units.

Speaker: 00:18:44

But that was obviously, you know, people would purchase it out of curiosity.

Speaker: 00:18:49

But he did, he did use it as proving his point, willing to to pay for something

Speaker: 00:18:57

that they don't have to do anything for.

Speaker: 00:19:00

A hundred percent right?

Speaker: 00:19:01

It goes back to understanding your client.

Speaker: 00:19:05

I so many people were missing that step.

Speaker: 00:19:09

And I think we, we really need to unlock our curiosity.

Speaker: 00:19:15

And one thing that I've been really not heartbroken, that's a little too

Speaker: 00:19:20

melodramatic, but I'll just use it 'cause I can't think of a better word,

Speaker: 00:19:24

heartbroken in lately is that everybody, when they thought of high level, I don't

Speaker: 00:19:30

know about, maybe you can agree with me.

Speaker: 00:19:31

If, if when you saw high level and you first understood what was possible,

Speaker: 00:19:37

all of the cool automations you could do this with it, there's all these

Speaker: 00:19:41

cool fe, every single feature, you have everything all in one spot.

Speaker: 00:19:44

You can link fill these things together and you could deliver

Speaker: 00:19:47

something really, really cool.

Speaker: 00:19:49

You could do something that's really meaningful that hasn't been done before.

Speaker: 00:19:53

And I often think about that 'cause that's, I had the same experience.

Speaker: 00:19:58

But there's all these people that come in with all these ideas being cool, but

Speaker: 00:20:01

what do you see actually happening is that it gets really complicated, really fast.

Speaker: 00:20:06

Everyone wants to have all these features and everyone gets told, well, all

Speaker: 00:20:12

the problems are happening is 'cause you're, you're, you're selling too many

Speaker: 00:20:15

complicated things, too many cool things.

Speaker: 00:20:17

Just do the basics, do the simple things right, like dumb down your product even.

Speaker: 00:20:22

And I, and we end up doing, not doing anything that's customized,

Speaker: 00:20:27

nothing that's really uniquely solving the customer issues.

Speaker: 00:20:31

And it's really sad because it should, that should not be the answer, the answer

Speaker: 00:20:36

of we have all this technology, the answer for how do we scale it out more?

Speaker: 00:20:40

Should not be, we should do less for our clients or we should,

Speaker: 00:20:45

you know, you know, do something that's unex that's not exciting.

Speaker: 00:20:50

We should, we shouldn't have to dumb our product down just so

Speaker: 00:20:53

that we can serve more people.

Speaker: 00:20:55

And I fundamentally.

Speaker: 00:20:58

Really, really reject that and don't like that because there is all this,

Speaker: 00:21:02

imagine it's like all this MCP stuff, all this ai, it's all these possibilities.

Speaker: 00:21:06

But in practical sense, when you get down to it, you can't do any of it.

Speaker: 00:21:10

That is, and I think the answer to that is twofold.

Speaker: 00:21:15

one of them is we have to be curious.

Speaker: 00:21:17

We have to bring, understand the clients and what are the real

Speaker: 00:21:20

problems that they're having?

Speaker: 00:21:22

What is their day like?

Speaker: 00:21:24

What is it like in the office of the accountant?

Speaker: 00:21:27

Not, you know, what people do they wanna sell to?

Speaker: 00:21:30

What's, what's happening?

Speaker: 00:21:31

Is Brenda on the phone all day?

Speaker: 00:21:33

Is, are they, is anybody not on the phone and they're out and driving around

Speaker: 00:21:38

'cause they're maybe going to different meetings or job sites or something.

Speaker: 00:21:42

I think we need to understand that day of life because when you

Speaker: 00:21:45

understand that and you understand those problems at a really deep level.

Speaker: 00:21:51

The reason why you need all these cool tools and do all this cool tech and do

Speaker: 00:21:55

these complicated builds now has value because there's, you've identified a

Speaker: 00:22:00

value that's bigger than the basics that's worth investing in doing something bigger.

Speaker: 00:22:06

So anyway, that's what's been on my, I don't know.

Speaker: 00:22:08

Have you noticed that at all?

Speaker: 00:22:09

People just kind of dumbing things down or doing the basics?

Speaker: 00:22:13

I, I mean, I, I, I, I'm not that connected with what everybody's doing day to day.

Speaker: 00:22:18

It's hard, right.

Speaker: 00:22:19

And I mean, one of the good places to do that would be like, looking

Speaker: 00:22:22

at the community, but, you know, with 110,000 members now, it's

Speaker: 00:22:25

just really hard to be there.

Speaker: 00:22:27

Um, so I haven't

Speaker: 00:22:28

Well, you don't keep, you don't watch all of them.

Speaker: 00:22:30

You don't, you don't personally know every single person in Hilo.

Speaker: 00:22:33

yeah.

Speaker: 00:22:34

Well, well, lemme finish.

Speaker: 00:22:36

I, I wanna, I do, I do wanna say this is,

Speaker: 00:22:40

I I have interviewed a lot of people over the course of this

Speaker: 00:22:43

podcast and, and I spoke to a lot of people outside of the podcast too.

Speaker: 00:22:47

And there's pros and cons to everything, you know, Rob

Speaker: 00:22:50

Bailey, he is big on simplicity.

Speaker: 00:22:52

I think there's, there's, there's some truth in keeping things simple initially.

Speaker: 00:22:56

foot in the door, I, I do believe foot in the door is good because, I mean,

Speaker: 00:23:00

what it comes down to is adoption.

Speaker: 00:23:01

Right.

Speaker: 00:23:02

But I, I get what you're saying as well, because it's like.

Speaker: 00:23:05

We look at high level of what's possible and then not, not a lot

Speaker: 00:23:08

of people are actually going down that route, like really utilizing

Speaker: 00:23:12

it for custom solutions, right?

Speaker: 00:23:14

That's, that's the argument here, and I'm with you on that.

Speaker: 00:23:17

But I think also from a, from a standpoint of we're helping small businesses, uh,

Speaker: 00:23:22

the name of the game is adoption, right?

Speaker: 00:23:24

And so what's the best way to adopt is by drip feeding slowly and just getting

Speaker: 00:23:28

them adopted to that thing, get 'em winning and then peeling the onion.

Speaker: 00:23:33

But I think a lot of people might just finish on like halfway through

Speaker: 00:23:36

and then they just get in a place.

Speaker: 00:23:37

And because now the customer's paying for subscriptions and maybe feeling

Speaker: 00:23:41

like, okay, that's probably enough, the customer's kind of happy and that that'll

Speaker: 00:23:44

do, and now we just wanna sell more.

Speaker: 00:23:46

that might be a business model that might work, right?

Speaker: 00:23:49

but then we know that there's so much more that you could do for them.

Speaker: 00:23:53

Uh, but then like.

Speaker: 00:23:54

Then it comes down to pricing, like how you price it.

Speaker: 00:23:56

'cause if you're doing it like 99 a month, it's very, very hard to justify

Speaker: 00:24:00

having, uh, I regular meetings of clients and dedicating more of your time to it.

Speaker: 00:24:04

Right.

Speaker: 00:24:05

I, and I think, uh, by the way, shout out to Rob and yes, Rob definitely

Speaker: 00:24:09

needs to keep things simple.

Speaker: 00:24:11

Rob is a simple, love you Rob.

Speaker: 00:24:14

yo, I think there is a place for a lot of keeping things simple, right?

Speaker: 00:24:18

And I'm not saying that we shouldn't do that.

Speaker: 00:24:21

I think what it is, is that when we start looking at scaling things out, like,

Speaker: 00:24:25

you know, there's a room for everyone.

Speaker: 00:24:26

There's people that need to just get the basics and keep them simple.

Speaker: 00:24:29

And I think you're starting out.

Speaker: 00:24:30

Sure.

Speaker: 00:24:31

but what ends up happening is when you start scaling things out.

Speaker: 00:24:35

You're not solving any unique problems.

Speaker: 00:24:38

What has that happening is you can't charge as much because there is so

Speaker: 00:24:42

much, like high level can be spun up and any like, you know, high level,

Speaker: 00:24:45

I know high level we could, the basics can be done by almost anybody.

Speaker: 00:24:49

And a larger company can do them faster, cheaper, and better than a smaller person.

Speaker: 00:24:54

So as you start to, if you're not bringing anything unique to the

Speaker: 00:24:58

market and you're scaling out, at some point, you know you're gonna

Speaker: 00:25:03

start getting more and more churn.

Speaker: 00:25:05

And if you're getting more and more churn and it costs more to bring on new

Speaker: 00:25:09

customers, because the only way to make more money is to get more, but that

Speaker: 00:25:12

your churn is going up at a certain point, you get into that spot where

Speaker: 00:25:18

you know, you're, you getting bigger, you actually make less money, right?

Speaker: 00:25:21

You start hitting that spot.

Speaker: 00:25:23

And the only way to then get more money is you either have to become a. Hyper

Speaker: 00:25:28

efficient so that you can scale out.

Speaker: 00:25:31

And most people choose to go simpler, right?

Speaker: 00:25:34

You pare down, you cut out.

Speaker: 00:25:36

But I think if you are, I think the other way that you can go with that, and

Speaker: 00:25:41

I think it takes a little more bravery and it takes a little bit more work.

Speaker: 00:25:46

I, the other way you can go is to just double down on really understanding

Speaker: 00:25:51

that customer, finding that unique problem and delivering a very unique

Speaker: 00:25:56

experience that no one else can.

Speaker: 00:25:58

Maybe part of your experience is that more manual way, maybe there's

Speaker: 00:26:03

adding, un automating instead of automating absolutely everything.

Speaker: 00:26:07

Maybe there's a portion of your product that is still one-on-one,

Speaker: 00:26:14

but it's trying to find, and being able to do that, to bring in some

Speaker: 00:26:17

one-on-one, some non-scalable.

Speaker: 00:26:20

Elements into your scaling company.

Speaker: 00:26:23

I think you can deliver a lot more value, which allows you to charge more,

Speaker: 00:26:27

which reduces your customer churn.

Speaker: 00:26:29

And I think you can combat that.

Speaker: 00:26:32

I, I think that's a better way to go personally.

Speaker: 00:26:34

And I don't think it's for everybody though.

Speaker: 00:26:36

It's less scalable.

Speaker: 00:26:37

Only if you've got a pricing wrong as well.

Speaker: 00:26:42

If you've got a pricing right.

Speaker: 00:26:44

And if you can, if you can sell that value to the customer so that they're

Speaker: 00:26:47

willing to pay a thousand or more a month for that type of subscription,

Speaker: 00:26:52

then it's, it's beautiful thing.

Speaker: 00:26:54

I, you know, I'm learning so much these days as well, like, you know,

Speaker: 00:26:58

it's a continuous journey, right?

Speaker: 00:27:00

Learning you should always be a student, student of life.

Speaker: 00:27:03

recently I, I was task to build a snapshot, and I think I mentioned

Speaker: 00:27:09

that that was the thing I talked about in the last episode that I'm gonna

Speaker: 00:27:14

share some news to the listeners.

Speaker: 00:27:17

I didn't share those news, so I'll, I'll, I'll give you some news guys.

Speaker: 00:27:21

So three months ago I was approached by an agency and just keep

Speaker: 00:27:26

everything unnamed, unknown, right?

Speaker: 00:27:28

So that nobody gets any problems with this.

Speaker: 00:27:31

But, on the same token, I do wanna share it because it's exciting

Speaker: 00:27:33

and I also think it's, uh.

Speaker: 00:27:37

Another revenue stream that didn't, didn't think of that I

Speaker: 00:27:39

would ever, go down that route.

Speaker: 00:27:40

But anyway, long story short, I was approached by an agency

Speaker: 00:27:43

who has been around for years.

Speaker: 00:27:45

in US they do SEO, they do arts.

Speaker: 00:27:48

and they just recently started using high level as well.

Speaker: 00:27:52

And they are in a particular industry that's very nuanced and

Speaker: 00:27:55

that's what they've been good at.

Speaker: 00:27:56

You know, generating leads, optimizing websites, building websites.

Speaker: 00:28:00

But they wanted to also add a, a new revenue stream, subscription, right, high

Speaker: 00:28:05

level, which is the smart thing to do.

Speaker: 00:28:07

'cause services only it's hard, harder to scale and, and have, you

Speaker: 00:28:11

know, have a record ring on that one.

Speaker: 00:28:13

like with mostly profit.

Speaker: 00:28:15

So that, that's where they approached me 'cause they've been looking for somebody

Speaker: 00:28:18

in the community who can build them a snapshot for that industry so that they

Speaker: 00:28:21

can have that as a new add-on product.

Speaker: 00:28:25

So they approached me, we scoped it out and we developed a snapshot for them.

Speaker: 00:28:30

And then they went to the races with it.

Speaker: 00:28:32

They went to conference, they showed it to the people in that industry

Speaker: 00:28:36

and they generated a lot of interest.

Speaker: 00:28:38

so what it was was, uh, custom voice AI that helps qualify for that

Speaker: 00:28:42

particular business type, custom API connection that can generate a

Speaker: 00:28:48

results based of an API that mentioned that person mentions over the phone.

Speaker: 00:28:52

A lot of custom stuff works outta the box now.

Speaker: 00:28:56

Brilliant.

Speaker: 00:28:57

but I. What I thought was like, okay, if we build a snapshot,

Speaker: 00:29:01

we, we do all the documentation.

Speaker: 00:29:03

Our job is done.

Speaker: 00:29:03

I've got my own agencies to work, work and focus on right over here in Australia.

Speaker: 00:29:08

Uh, stand out from the pack, right?

Speaker: 00:29:10

but then they approached me and say, Hey, look, we've got,

Speaker: 00:29:11

we've got so much interest.

Speaker: 00:29:12

We've got these big companies as well.

Speaker: 00:29:14

They're all interested.

Speaker: 00:29:15

Uh, what would it, what would it take for you to be part of a team?

Speaker: 00:29:18

Like how would you, how could we, and so, okay.

Speaker: 00:29:21

I mean, I'm not gonna say no to a good business opportunity, right?

Speaker: 00:29:24

So, there's something to say about maybe chewing too much then, then you can eat.

Speaker: 00:29:29

But too, but you know.

Speaker: 00:29:31

I'm ambitious.

Speaker: 00:29:32

You know, I'm, long story short, I agreed.

Speaker: 00:29:35

We, we put together an agreement, we got a deal that makes financial

Speaker: 00:29:38

sense, and now we've onboarded account number eight and growing.

Speaker: 00:29:45

What was interesting though is obviously I'm, I'm building my,

Speaker: 00:29:49

capability on my end, so hiring more people and getting things dialed in.

Speaker: 00:29:54

What was interesting is even though we've got Snapshot, even though we've

Speaker: 00:29:57

got the documentation about Snapshot and how you set it up, you know, you,

Speaker: 00:30:03

you really realize like how much more you need to develop in terms of SOPs and

Speaker: 00:30:07

how much more detail you need to get.

Speaker: 00:30:09

so obviously on our end we're using Clickup.

Speaker: 00:30:13

At this point to set up that snapshot to set up a subaccount, we kind of do both.

Speaker: 00:30:17

Set up a subaccount task related A to P, all that set up a snapshot

Speaker: 00:30:21

together about 70 tasks, right?

Speaker: 00:30:24

And each task, some of the tasks have checklists.

Speaker: 00:30:26

And what we've done is each task says an SOPs and all that.

Speaker: 00:30:29

So I was like, well, we've done all that as well the last couple of weeks.

Speaker: 00:30:32

And then I've got team that are following it pretty well.

Speaker: 00:30:35

And then we just have team meet weekly meeting and just

Speaker: 00:30:37

talk about whoever is stuck.

Speaker: 00:30:40

what is interesting though is that's still not enough.

Speaker: 00:30:43

Like you do that, you set up the account, you do an hour, hour and a

Speaker: 00:30:46

half on onboarding call with client, and you still realize that's not enough.

Speaker: 00:30:51

With the adoption, the adoption is such a, such a huge amount of work still that

Speaker: 00:30:57

now we're looking on the back end of it, that the second part of it's like, hey,

Speaker: 00:31:00

well we've installed it, we've showed them that it's working, it's brilliant,

Speaker: 00:31:05

all the automations to do what it needs to, voice AI does what it needs to do.

Speaker: 00:31:10

How do we speed up the learning curve for the client?

Speaker: 00:31:13

That's the big one they're still like,

Speaker: 00:31:15

what, what,

Speaker: 00:31:16

did we just talk about earlier, right?

Speaker: 00:31:18

Saying the idea of, you know, it's not enough to have the cool product.

Speaker: 00:31:22

You have to know what is the day of the life of those people and how, how does the

Speaker: 00:31:28

product that you make fit into that life?

Speaker: 00:31:32

Right?

Speaker: 00:31:33

And that's, that's what adoption is.

Speaker: 00:31:34

That adoption is, can you visualize, can you visualize the people in that busy,

Speaker: 00:31:40

you know, and nobody has time, right?

Speaker: 00:31:42

It doesn't matter, you know, we think we're all busy in the marketing world.

Speaker: 00:31:45

Nobody has time in anywhere, right?

Speaker: 00:31:47

So you have to fight for.

Speaker: 00:31:49

What does that look like?

Speaker: 00:31:50

Them getting that software and what is the day of the life of them learning

Speaker: 00:31:55

how to use your product and actually using it, and what do you have to do

Speaker: 00:31:59

to support that, that process, right?

Speaker: 00:32:02

When, when there's no habits, and the people that are using it aren't

Speaker: 00:32:06

the people that paid for it, so they don't care at all, right?

Speaker: 00:32:09

Like they, they, they're actually, they actually would prefer not

Speaker: 00:32:13

to have to learn something new.

Speaker: 00:32:14

So yeah, a hundred percent, I'm, I'm feeling that.

Speaker: 00:32:18

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:32:18

And so then there is like,

Speaker: 00:32:22

okay, so we need to do more meetings.

Speaker: 00:32:25

So I had another meeting with another clients and I'm, for me,

Speaker: 00:32:28

it's super valuable because if somebody has, is willing to be on

Speaker: 00:32:31

that call with me to bounce ideas.

Speaker: 00:32:35

The customer talking about, you know, they use like House Go Pro for example, right?

Speaker: 00:32:41

you know, like, uh.

Speaker: 00:32:43

Tradies tool, something like ServiceTitan, similar stuff, right?

Speaker: 00:32:47

So we're talking about what they do there and what we do on the GHL side and

Speaker: 00:32:52

what things they need to get synced up.

Speaker: 00:32:55

So we're learning more and we're peeling that onion further.

Speaker: 00:32:57

We're realizing that we need to actually, we actually need to

Speaker: 00:33:00

integrate that a little more with their existing, 'cause otherwise

Speaker: 00:33:04

it's just like a friction all that.

Speaker: 00:33:07

And something to say to like having a good report with clients and, and have

Speaker: 00:33:12

that, have that two way, because even though we're still ironing out some

Speaker: 00:33:17

Ks and uh, going down further down the rabbit hole of adding extra stuff for

Speaker: 00:33:21

them, we have a two-way communication.

Speaker: 00:33:24

And they are, you know, at the end of the call they were like, happy, you

Speaker: 00:33:28

know, like that we've, we've, we've got access, we've got stuff happening.

Speaker: 00:33:32

What I'm excited about is I'm learning from this.

Speaker: 00:33:35

'cause I'm still on the back of my mind.

Speaker: 00:33:36

It's, well, that's, I mean, that takes so much time.

Speaker: 00:33:39

Is that gonna be every single one of them?

Speaker: 00:33:41

Well, well it doesn't have to be right.

Speaker: 00:33:42

The next one, if they have OutCo Pro be like, ah, we've got that.

Speaker: 00:33:47

That's already, here's exactly how we approach that.

Speaker: 00:33:49

Are you happy with that one?

Speaker: 00:33:51

then just copy, copy existing, automations that were built for that.

Speaker: 00:33:56

There's an importance of friction, right?

Speaker: 00:33:58

There's an importance of having friction in your process.

Speaker: 00:34:01

So oftentimes we talk about in sales, reducing that friction because you know,

Speaker: 00:34:06

we wanna make it as fast as possible to the signup, but we also know that if

Speaker: 00:34:10

you quickly bring in a bad lead, right?

Speaker: 00:34:13

That's also bad.

Speaker: 00:34:14

So we need to input in a little bit of friction in the sales process to

Speaker: 00:34:18

qualify people, slow them down, make sure that they're getting what they need.

Speaker: 00:34:23

Well, that's the same thing after the sale, right?

Speaker: 00:34:25

That those friction points, or just even in business, right?

Speaker: 00:34:28

Those friction points in business that.

Speaker: 00:34:31

You wanna say, well, let's build, we wanna build a company that we can spin

Speaker: 00:34:34

up and there's no, everything just rolls and we don't have to worry about it.

Speaker: 00:34:38

Well, that's a utopia, right?

Speaker: 00:34:40

But that friction of, of business is having those little stopping points

Speaker: 00:34:44

where you have to talk to somebody where the, there's not a, there's not

Speaker: 00:34:49

a best practice already out there.

Speaker: 00:34:50

If you just do this, you'll make a million dollars.

Speaker: 00:34:52

Right?

Speaker: 00:34:53

There's friction in those processes that you almost have to embrace those,

Speaker: 00:34:57

those, you call it touch points, right?

Speaker: 00:34:59

Those are like learning about the client.

Speaker: 00:35:02

Those are super valuable because that can't be automated.

Speaker: 00:35:07

You can't automate some of those things because that's, that's

Speaker: 00:35:12

a knowledge that you have.

Speaker: 00:35:13

That's a connection, that's a relationship that you have

Speaker: 00:35:16

that somebody with chat, GBT.

Speaker: 00:35:19

Can't actually, they, they're not gonna be able to replicate that.

Speaker: 00:35:23

So yeah, you're, you're a hundred percent right, is getting your

Speaker: 00:35:25

hands dirty, you know, keeping your hands in the dirt, right.

Speaker: 00:35:28

While you're, while, you know, is it, um, I'm quoting Gary V again, right?

Speaker: 00:35:32

Head in the clouds with your hands in the dirt, right?

Speaker: 00:35:34

Is, uh, such a great little line, which is the more time you spend in front of

Speaker: 00:35:39

a client talking to a human being, the more you're going to actually, the more

Speaker: 00:35:43

valuable and effective you're going to be.

Speaker: 00:35:46

Or, you know, potentially anyway, right?

Speaker: 00:35:47

You could talk to someone all day long and ask the wrong questions and, but yeah.

Speaker: 00:35:51

But, uh, no, this is, that's definitely it.

Speaker: 00:35:54

And I guess the key takeaway for this, for those guys listening is that, you

Speaker: 00:35:58

know, scalable and systems and all that, they're all great things, but it's almost

Speaker: 00:36:05

like at the beginning it's not gonna be, it's almost like the other way.

Speaker: 00:36:08

Like you have to do the thing that's not scalable at all in

Speaker: 00:36:10

order to get scalable, right?

Speaker: 00:36:12

Because that's like what I'm going through now.

Speaker: 00:36:14

Even.

Speaker: 00:36:14

So we've got all this stuff, we're still going through some teething issues.

Speaker: 00:36:17

We still have to do a lot of in person and communication with clients.

Speaker: 00:36:22

That's how we learn how we can like learn tremendously.

Speaker: 00:36:25

It's a great, great opportunity, but if we were from the get go, like, Hey,

Speaker: 00:36:30

we've got this snapshot that's installed.

Speaker: 00:36:31

We'd never have to talk to a client.

Speaker: 00:36:33

Uh, let's just send 'em some new videos.

Speaker: 00:36:35

And then, you know, we, we would bit ourselves in the food because we would

Speaker: 00:36:38

never have those opportunities to discuss and figure out those nuances

Speaker: 00:36:43

that they might be mentioning from, you know, how they're experiencing it.

Speaker: 00:36:47

And one of my good mates who runs a innovation center here, like a

Speaker: 00:36:51

coworking space slash innovation, they do government grants for startups.

Speaker: 00:36:55

All that is a CEO there.

Speaker: 00:36:57

He said to me, you know, where the innovation happens, where the innovation

Speaker: 00:37:02

starts is, is with conversation.

Speaker: 00:37:04

Like you always have to start with conversation first.

Speaker: 00:37:07

Go to the market, you know, even if you're like scoping out markets, speak to people.

Speaker: 00:37:12

and you figure out those, once you have a customer, speak to them a lot.

Speaker: 00:37:15

And then.

Speaker: 00:37:17

I, I'm gonna say, I've probably said it in every podcast I've been in,

Speaker: 00:37:21

but I'm gonna keep saying it anyway.

Speaker: 00:37:23

if you have three hours of time to learn new things for your business,

Speaker: 00:37:28

you could spend that three hours.

Speaker: 00:37:30

Any which way?

Speaker: 00:37:31

Where would you spend it?

Speaker: 00:37:33

You could spend it learning about ai, the newest MCP server.

Speaker: 00:37:36

You could spend it learning about a new sales thing.

Speaker: 00:37:40

I would wager the absolute best t time that the, the best dollar for

Speaker: 00:37:45

dollar payoff that you could have in that three hours is talking to

Speaker: 00:37:49

three people in your target market that you want to, to help and have

Speaker: 00:37:55

a one hour conversation with them.

Speaker: 00:37:58

Pay offer to buy them lunch, buy 'em dinner, buy 'em a coffee and say, Hey.

Speaker: 00:38:03

I'm breaking into this industry.

Speaker: 00:38:05

I wanna learn something.

Speaker: 00:38:06

What, whatever you have to say to have that meeting and just ask them

Speaker: 00:38:10

every question about how, what is it like in a day to day of being in who

Speaker: 00:38:14

running that business that they are?

Speaker: 00:38:17

And no sales, no pitch.

Speaker: 00:38:19

Just learn about them.

Speaker: 00:38:21

I think there's, I, I think, I don't think you could, uh, ever argue that

Speaker: 00:38:26

spending three hours talking to your clients in long scale form one-on-one,

Speaker: 00:38:32

I, I don't think anyone could argue that that is not the best use of your time.

Speaker: 00:38:36

now obviously at a certain point you have to do more than talk to

Speaker: 00:38:39

people, but I'm thinking that's what creates the value, right?

Speaker: 00:38:43

Is those conversations.

Speaker: 00:38:45

What tool you use is insignificant.

Speaker: 00:38:48

So that's why simple can sometimes be the best tool.

Speaker: 00:38:51

As long as you know that you're solving a problem that's worth a mil.

Speaker: 00:38:55

If it's something, if the problem's worth a million dollars to solve,

Speaker: 00:38:58

it doesn't matter if you use the simplest tool or the most complicated.

Speaker: 00:39:01

Right.

Speaker: 00:39:02

but yeah, that's what I think about that is we, we should be talking to clusters

Speaker: 00:39:06

more than, and not talking to AI and, uh, you know, watching YouTube videos though,

Speaker: 00:39:12

there, there is a place for all of them.

Speaker: 00:39:15

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:39:15

Well also what that does is, it allows you to figure out what those problems are.

Speaker: 00:39:20

So now you're shopping for solution, but you've got clarity about the

Speaker: 00:39:24

problems because that's what you distill from those conversations.

Speaker: 00:39:27

And it's far better do that way than trying to like, learn the solutions

Speaker: 00:39:31

where you're not sure yet about what problems they're gonna help solve.

Speaker: 00:39:35

It's cool, like, as an idea, because like, I mean, I'm like that too in a way, right?

Speaker: 00:39:40

Like, I wanna be able to go to people right now, I wanna have all the expertise

Speaker: 00:39:44

about, you know, all the, all the different options, all the different

Speaker: 00:39:46

solutions, because then you're going out to them and you still have that

Speaker: 00:39:50

conversation, but you can consult them right away about the right solution.

Speaker: 00:39:54

That's brilliant.

Speaker: 00:39:56

But it's about time, right?

Speaker: 00:39:58

And so if you only had those three hours, is what we're saying is uh, if you,

Speaker: 00:40:01

if you're starting, because to learn all those solutions and have that, you

Speaker: 00:40:04

know, knowledge and be able to be that consultant, that's a lot of time spent

Speaker: 00:40:09

on research, education and all that.

Speaker: 00:40:11

So, and cashflow, cash flow is key, right?

Speaker: 00:40:14

So we're gonna get, we're gonna get faster way to get the cash so we

Speaker: 00:40:18

can have then resources to delegate and then we can maybe learn or

Speaker: 00:40:22

pay somebody else who can learn.

Speaker: 00:40:23

I think yeah, much better way.

Speaker: 00:40:26

yeah, I, I, I just think, I was just thinking of that right now, by the

Speaker: 00:40:29

way, that thing, three hours, it's like, I, I actually only think what

Speaker: 00:40:32

would be, if you have three hours before you could start a business,

Speaker: 00:40:36

you know, it's like, what's the first, what, what would be the most valuable?

Speaker: 00:40:39

You know, like three hours you could spend to improve any business.

Speaker: 00:40:43

I think it's talking to people.

Speaker: 00:40:45

I think the other thing too though is like, is we're getting a really

Speaker: 00:40:49

far away from, I, I think we're always, there's always that push,

Speaker: 00:40:52

pull of sales versus, product.

Speaker: 00:40:55

And, uh, do you know who I think his name's?

Speaker: 00:40:59

Is it Professor G?

Speaker: 00:41:01

He's, he is talk, there's a, I, I've just recently been seeing him

Speaker: 00:41:04

and he's been talking about this concept that brand is dead now.

Speaker: 00:41:08

I disagree.

Speaker: 00:41:09

Brand is dead.

Speaker: 00:41:10

But he's also talking about the largest businesses.

Speaker: 00:41:13

When he's talking about brand, he's talking about, you know, these large

Speaker: 00:41:17

corporate brands when we're talking marketing at like fully scaled companies.

Speaker: 00:41:21

But what he was saying is, is that the product is what's

Speaker: 00:41:25

gonna win every single time.

Speaker: 00:41:26

Right.

Speaker: 00:41:27

Is your product good?

Speaker: 00:41:29

because if you have the best product.

Speaker: 00:41:32

You know, a lot of the marketing gets taken care of.

Speaker: 00:41:34

Your reviews, right?

Speaker: 00:41:35

The social proof people talking about it, sharing, like if you have a great

Speaker: 00:41:39

product, everything, everything goes away.

Speaker: 00:41:42

He was even saying that brand used to be take a mediocre product, give

Speaker: 00:41:46

it a great brand, and then using cheap advertising, get it out there.

Speaker: 00:41:51

That's a very sum, very shortened version of what he's talking

Speaker: 00:41:54

about, and that doesn't fly as much anymore if your product sucks.

Speaker: 00:41:59

And how do you make your product better?

Speaker: 00:42:01

Is it adding ai?

Speaker: 00:42:03

Is it using an MCP server on GHL?

Speaker: 00:42:06

Is it building a bigger snapshot?

Speaker: 00:42:08

Is it simple building a simpler snapshot?

Speaker: 00:42:11

No.

Speaker: 00:42:11

What makes a better product is knowing what actually makes the money hit the

Speaker: 00:42:18

bank, what actually saves people time?

Speaker: 00:42:21

What actually, and so, yeah, I'm a big believer that I. We

Speaker: 00:42:26

need to focus on the customer.

Speaker: 00:42:27

Obviously it sounds cliche at this point, but we know it's not there.

Speaker: 00:42:30

It's not always happening.

Speaker: 00:42:32

And then that second is that we need to be building our systems in

Speaker: 00:42:36

a way that we can actually unlock this value and do something that's

Speaker: 00:42:41

not being done by everyone else, because the basics are there.

Speaker: 00:42:45

But at some point, we have to be able to find a unique problem.

Speaker: 00:42:50

And that unique problem will eventually need more than just the basics.

Speaker: 00:42:54

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker: 00:42:56

It comes down to the approach as well.

Speaker: 00:42:58

Big time.

Speaker: 00:42:59

Um, hey, I was just looking at what we talked about in episode 27, which

Speaker: 00:43:05

was in October 20, 24 actually.

Speaker: 00:43:07

So it wasn't that long.

Speaker: 00:43:08

I thought it was longer.

Speaker: 00:43:09

and we talked a lot about, back then, we talk a little about snapshots.

Speaker: 00:43:13

So for these guys listening, if you didn't know.

Speaker: 00:43:16

If you didn't know Michael, like he is known in the community for somebody who's

Speaker: 00:43:19

really good at documenting snapshots.

Speaker: 00:43:23

And I'm just saying it because we covered a lot of that and a lot of what we said

Speaker: 00:43:27

still stands about, you know, how, how the importance of documenting it, the

Speaker: 00:43:32

importance of you know, like not scaling problems and, and what goes into it.

Speaker: 00:43:36

So if you, if you wanna dive in more into that, definitely go to episode 27.

Speaker: 00:43:41

But Michael, has anything from what we discussed last time changed in what you

Speaker: 00:43:46

believe about snapshot documentation?

Speaker: 00:43:49

I.

Speaker: 00:43:50

What has changed most Snapchat documentation, I would say.

Speaker: 00:43:54

I, I would say str tactical, tactically y maybe?

Speaker: 00:43:59

Yes.

Speaker: 00:44:00

So there's been some changes in like the tactics of, of

Speaker: 00:44:03

the how do you implement it?

Speaker: 00:44:04

I would say though that the philosophy and what I've seen happen

Speaker: 00:44:08

and how it plays out has been just vindicated over and over and over.

Speaker: 00:44:14

Um, one of the biggest things that has changed for me, on, so not change,

Speaker: 00:44:18

but has shown that vindication was, was documenting in the way that I've

Speaker: 00:44:23

believed that we need to document.

Speaker: 00:44:25

I've advocated very, he, I used to very lightly advocate for

Speaker: 00:44:29

documenting the individual assets.

Speaker: 00:44:32

So your workflows, your tags, your custom values and fields, and.

Speaker: 00:44:37

The approach that I brought, I used to being like, Hey, it's really,

Speaker: 00:44:39

you gotta have to have that.

Speaker: 00:44:40

It's, it's pretty important, all that.

Speaker: 00:44:43

But when AI started to hit ncps, Airtable, the documentation tool I use has come out.

Speaker: 00:44:50

AI doesn't, but here's how, sorry, I was not prepared for this question.

Speaker: 00:44:57

It's a very good one.

Speaker: 00:44:58

Here's what's actually changed.

Speaker: 00:45:00

we don't need to make documentation for humans anymore.

Speaker: 00:45:05

What we need to do is, because a lot of times we create

Speaker: 00:45:08

documentation that no one ever reads.

Speaker: 00:45:10

The actual problem that we're trying to solve for is the person, the technician

Speaker: 00:45:14

at the end of the, like, we're building a snapshot right now, and we think,

Speaker: 00:45:18

okay, that it's gonna be us and a client.

Speaker: 00:45:20

It's not, it's us, the client, it's the account manager that has to.

Speaker: 00:45:25

Explain to a client how this snapshot works or this high level account works.

Speaker: 00:45:30

It's a tech support person who maybe doesn't know the snapshot very well,

Speaker: 00:45:35

that has to very quickly find solutions and find to the problems, identify

Speaker: 00:45:40

where the problem is in something that they can't possibly memorize.

Speaker: 00:45:44

They can't memorize everything.

Speaker: 00:45:46

And if you document all of the assets of your snapshot and you plug

Speaker: 00:45:53

that into an ai, and AI can read databases way better than it can

Speaker: 00:45:57

read a giant text document, right?

Speaker: 00:45:59

If you give it the raw data of how your snapshot's connected, you

Speaker: 00:46:03

don't need to make documentation for the tech support person.

Speaker: 00:46:06

'cause now the ai, the tech person is gonna go to the AI and saying,

Speaker: 00:46:11

how does the snapshot work?

Speaker: 00:46:13

Hey, the client said that.

Speaker: 00:46:15

They added this newsletter tag to the contact and it's not

Speaker: 00:46:20

sending them the newsletter.

Speaker: 00:46:22

Why is that?

Speaker: 00:46:24

Well, the AI can look at your documentation and go, well,

Speaker: 00:46:29

you don't just need that tag.

Speaker: 00:46:30

You need to have the permissions set and the custom field that gives it permissions

Speaker: 00:46:35

check to make sure that's there.

Speaker: 00:46:37

And then you also have to make sure that the workflow in the

Speaker: 00:46:40

onboarding that's supposed to be turned on in the onboarding.

Speaker: 00:46:43

Make sure that was actually turned on.

Speaker: 00:46:46

So the doc, so what's changed is, as I said, it's not how I

Speaker: 00:46:51

document hasn't really changed.

Speaker: 00:46:53

I've stayed pretty consistent, but what has changed is my vindication

Speaker: 00:46:56

of going, Hey, we need to document how things actually work.

Speaker: 00:47:00

We have to understand when we're building it, how it works, so that we can hand

Speaker: 00:47:05

it off to an AI and then the AI can.

Speaker: 00:47:07

Now, for the user, we don't want the user, we don't want our clients

Speaker: 00:47:11

to have to do a lot of work, right?

Speaker: 00:47:13

Billy Jean selling nothing.

Speaker: 00:47:14

We don't want our tech support people to have to go and read through

Speaker: 00:47:17

documentation, but we need that documentation in order to give them a

Speaker: 00:47:22

good experience supporting our products.

Speaker: 00:47:25

Because if we're not thinking about them, we can't scale.

Speaker: 00:47:29

If we're not thinking about how does our company operate and we're just thinking

Speaker: 00:47:33

about building something and hiring people and hopefully they fix all the problems,

Speaker: 00:47:37

I think that's only what's really changed my vindication of like, Hey.

Speaker: 00:47:42

This is actually how values created in high level is having

Speaker: 00:47:47

a system for documenting.

Speaker: 00:47:49

And, yeah.

Speaker: 00:47:50

So it was a bit of a rant there, but that is,

Speaker: 00:47:53

that is what's been changing.

Speaker: 00:47:54

yeah, that's great.

Speaker: 00:47:55

I. Fan of, of that because, um, I mean, as you, as you guys know,

Speaker: 00:48:00

I've, I've talked about it a lot.

Speaker: 00:48:01

I'm fan of clickup, so we do our documentation through Clickup.

Speaker: 00:48:05

but I wonder like that's a good point with tables that it probably

Speaker: 00:48:08

references better from tables than text.

Speaker: 00:48:09

I don't know.

Speaker: 00:48:10

I haven't tested it.

Speaker: 00:48:11

Well, Clickup can do a lot of that too, right?

Speaker: 00:48:13

I, it's, uh, you, whether you use Notion, I, I think the underlying

Speaker: 00:48:17

principle is have your raw data.

Speaker: 00:48:20

And even if you're using in a Google Doc, that's still fine, right?

Speaker: 00:48:23

But what we're saying is get the raw data of things and don't just be the

Speaker: 00:48:28

guy who's using AI to create a bunch of stuff, and then another person

Speaker: 00:48:32

takes an AI to go and distill it down like it at some point, you know?

Speaker: 00:48:37

We're missing something.

Speaker: 00:48:38

What we actually have to do is understand the material, get the essence of what

Speaker: 00:48:43

it is, and then give it to an ai.

Speaker: 00:48:45

And that's when it gets supercharged, right?

Speaker: 00:48:47

that's when we're creating value because we're not creating things just

Speaker: 00:48:51

because we need to document things.

Speaker: 00:48:53

We're doing it because, oh my gosh, it saves us a thousand hours in time.

Speaker: 00:48:58

It allows us to solve problems.

Speaker: 00:49:00

And now I don't, my tech team doesn't have to spend a hundred hours learning

Speaker: 00:49:05

all the nuances of my snapshot.

Speaker: 00:49:07

Now my tech team just needs to start asking the AI questions to learn, right?

Speaker: 00:49:13

They don't.

Speaker: 00:49:14

Now you that built you, maybe you're the agency owner, you are no longer the

Speaker: 00:49:18

focal point that everyone has to come to.

Speaker: 00:49:21

If you document as you go.

Speaker: 00:49:24

Then you can let your AI answer all those questions for you.

Speaker: 00:49:27

You are no longer the go-to person now because you've taken

Speaker: 00:49:30

your brain and put it out.

Speaker: 00:49:32

So, ah man, I'm getting all fired up now.

Speaker: 00:49:35

But yeah, that's uh.

Speaker: 00:49:37

It's a big one.

Speaker: 00:49:37

It's a big one.

Speaker: 00:49:38

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:49:38

I'm hundred percent with you on that.

Speaker: 00:49:40

And then the other really cool thing, and I mentioned that last time as

Speaker: 00:49:43

well, it's by documenting a snapshot.

Speaker: 00:49:46

Um.

Speaker: 00:49:48

Once you get your snapshot built properly, you know, like by documenting

Speaker: 00:49:51

it, you actually uncover a lot of holes and it's a really good way to

Speaker: 00:49:55

quality control, quality check as well.

Speaker: 00:49:57

And, and especially when you get somebody else as well, like another

Speaker: 00:50:00

pair of eyes who hasn't built it, they, and you just say, Hey, can you, uh,

Speaker: 00:50:04

go over that and just, just get your understanding of how these workflows work.

Speaker: 00:50:08

Then again, you get a new, you get a new perspective and you

Speaker: 00:50:11

might realize, okay, there are some good ideas to, to implement.

Speaker: 00:50:15

Documenting.

Speaker: 00:50:16

Everyone know is under this misconception that documenting

Speaker: 00:50:19

is about creating a document.

Speaker: 00:50:21

Documenting is not an outcome.

Speaker: 00:50:24

Documenting is a process.

Speaker: 00:50:26

It's a process of proving to yourself that you understand what you've done, right?

Speaker: 00:50:31

That's called what do we do that in school?

Speaker: 00:50:33

We call show your work.

Speaker: 00:50:35

We don't show our work because the teacher wants us to.

Speaker: 00:50:40

We we're not trying to show our work because that's what needs to be done.

Speaker: 00:50:44

We need to write all this extra stuff.

Speaker: 00:50:45

We show our work.

Speaker: 00:50:46

How did we solve the math equation so the teacher can understand that, prove that

Speaker: 00:50:51

we actually know how math works and we're

Speaker: 00:50:53

a validation.

Speaker: 00:50:54

Validation of

Speaker: 00:50:56

So by documenting.

Speaker: 00:50:59

You solve.

Speaker: 00:51:00

The problem that I've seen a thousand times is people build something that they

Speaker: 00:51:03

don't actually know if it works or not.

Speaker: 00:51:05

By documenting you make sure that you're only creating stuff, that you

Speaker: 00:51:10

actually know how it works, and that's something what, and that's speed.

Speaker: 00:51:15

People look at that as slowing down.

Speaker: 00:51:18

When you get something that you know and you're confident it works

Speaker: 00:51:22

because you haven't just built it and you hope it works, but you've

Speaker: 00:51:26

proven it and you've trust it.

Speaker: 00:51:28

The amount of speed you get in business just goes exponentially faster when

Speaker: 00:51:33

you don't ever have to second guess.

Speaker: 00:51:35

When, when you ask a team member, oh, go look at that documentation,

Speaker: 00:51:39

and that team member's like, but am I gonna waste my time because only

Speaker: 00:51:43

half of the things are documented or they're out of date, or blah,

Speaker: 00:51:46

blah, blah, eh, I'm not gonna bother.

Speaker: 00:51:48

I'm just gonna go and figure out myself.

Speaker: 00:51:50

Or I'm gonna go ask the boss and something.

Speaker: 00:51:52

The amount of speed that you get by documenting as you go is astronomical,

Speaker: 00:51:57

but it's hard to pinpoint in the moment.

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It's just one of those things that, you know, it's like the different, it's

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just one of those things of like, if you don't do it, things just happen to

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slow down and everything becomes a mess.

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Well, it didn't just become a mess.

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It happened at one point and we just didn't realize it.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, definitely.

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Right.

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the four core skills that every VA agency and high level needs to

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master to unlock digital's potential.

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What do you got to say on that?

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Well, EV everything that I've just been talking about is

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starting to resonate with you.

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what I've done is, is I've put together a free training, which is these core skills.

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It's how do you plan, build and, update a client, build or a snapshot.

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And I put it together because I have a full course on how do you

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manage GHL, how do you document?

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It's all, everything I've ever learned all in one.

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It's a monthly, uh, month, monthly membership.

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But I wanted to give people something that you could give to your VAs

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to give them those core skills.

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The basics, not how do you build a whole snapshot, but if a client, if

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you're working on a single sub account.

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What are the core things that you need to document down to make sure

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that you're not gonna go too crazy on the scope, that you have a definition

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of done, that you could build it and then hand it off to your, your boss.

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So like, you know, and you're, you're hiring a team, right?

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What does your VA need to do so that they can autonomously go and get the job

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done and solve the client issue with as little involvement from you as possible?

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How do you document so that when that VA moves on to the next thing, that's another

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VA can come and actually fix things if they break because there's a paper trail?

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And then how do you actually, how do you actually update a snapshot?

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What are those really basic, basic kind of skills?

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it's, uh, five, five, uh, lessons of about 10 minutes each.

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There's a quiz for it, and it's just kinda my gift to the community that I think.

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If everyone has these basic skills and is a very practical training, then

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we can start to do the cool stuff.

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But if we don't have a basic foundation, if we don't have those skills, you

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can't do all the cool, fun stuff.

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You can't do those complicated things because it's like trying to, trying

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to learn to, it's trying to be a break a hundred meter sprint, world record

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when you have a broken leg, right?

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We need to fix, we need to have, make sure that we have, uh, you know, some

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good legs, a good foundation, now we can start going faster and all that.

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So that's what it is.

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It's those basic skills that every agency and their team needs,

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I love it.

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Yeah, man.

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Doing a hundred meter spring with broken legs, that be pretty painful.

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Which is a,

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we're

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is the

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Right.

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same experience of actually going with bad snapshots.

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It's really painful experience.

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You're scaling problems and then you having to go back and forth.

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Back and

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if you don't have, if you don't document things, that's a broken leg, right?

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Because you've built something and, okay, well hire somebody.

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What are they gonna do?

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Learn the snapshot just by opening it up and going through your 500 assets?

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No, they're gonna ask you like, that's not possible.

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It's not gonna happen, or it's not gonna happen fast, right?

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And then three months later they go and leave.

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And now you have to do it again.

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Like, no, it doesn't work.

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So no, a hundred percent if you don't know how to doc, if you're not documenting

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as you go, if you don't, if you have a team that doesn't do that, you are losing

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thousands upon thousands of dollars.

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And right now until you get, so, take that training, it's free.

Speaker: 00:55:25

Stop wasting your time with all that stuff and, um, and start being, get rid

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of those, you know, fix your broken legs.

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Guys, if you wanna fix your broken legs, get on, uh, on the bandwagon

Speaker: 00:55:38

of how to do things properly and have a way to actually have your VA's

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to learn this process, head over to highlevelexperience.com/michealpacitto.

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and on that landing page, you can learn about the offer.

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Uh, we'll also slide in his other offer from way back, which

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was the Snapshot Manager Pro.

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It is still still rine as well.

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No, because I'm now giving the Snapshot Manager Pro for free in my

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monthly membership, which is called Agency Unbound, it's a, uh, it's a

Speaker: 00:56:05

$99 a month, membership community.

Speaker: 00:56:09

You get all my documentation tools, you get all of my SOPs, best practices.

Speaker: 00:56:14

we're constantly adding to it.

Speaker: 00:56:16

We're building templates for how do you run meetings.

Speaker: 00:56:19

there's so much value there.

Speaker: 00:56:20

and I do wanna talk a lot about that, but right now, almost 99% of people

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just need to get that free course.

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And I guarantee once you've gone through that, they'll wanna go.

Speaker: 00:56:30

But the, the Snapshot Manager is now part of my monthly, my monthly program.

Speaker: 00:56:35

Brilliant.

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So we'll, we'll put in both, uh, links on that page, guys.

Speaker: 00:56:39

So, uh, once again, it's high level experience.com/Michael Pacitto.

Speaker: 00:56:44

That's M-I-C-H-E-A-L-P-A-C-I double TO.

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So.

Speaker: 00:56:50

Michael, nuanced Michael, not regular Michael.

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It, it's spelled the right way.

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All right, so head over there and, uh, jump on that for your

Speaker: 00:57:01

offer because it's brilliant.

Speaker: 00:57:03

And, um, yeah, thank you for doing that for the community.

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Michael, I really appreciate that you've been, you know, you've been, uh, uh,

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somebody in the community provides a lot of value and both, you know, you

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and I like, we know the documentation.

Speaker: 00:57:17

It feels like there's not a lot of exciting, not a lot of people talk

Speaker: 00:57:20

about it, but trust me, guys, once you start growing, once you start

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hitting the clients, you will very quickly realize how important that

Speaker: 00:57:29

is in order to scale profitably.

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I don't know.

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I find I find money quite sexy.

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People say documentation's not a sexy topic.

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I think I like saving money.

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Maybe it's the, uh, you know, maybe it's the Italian side of me, you know,

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but, uh, you know, it's like, I like being able to buy some nice things.

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I think that's pretty sexy.

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So, and if you document, well look at that.

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You could buy nicer things.

Speaker: 00:57:49

So that's how I think about it.

Speaker: 00:57:52

Yeah, definitely, definitely.

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alright, so, did you wanna cover anything else on this episode, Michael?

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I've run outta my questions.

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I, I don't think, I think we're at the, I, dude, I would love to talk

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about this and I could talk about this for another couple hours, but

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I think really anyone who's listened this far, you're wasting your time.

Speaker: 00:58:12

If we talked anymore, you need to just get that training start.

Speaker: 00:58:16

We're talking what's the best three hours you could spend, take one of

Speaker: 00:58:19

those hours and take the training.

Speaker: 00:58:20

So.

Speaker: 00:58:21

Yeah, talk is cheap.

Speaker: 00:58:23

Action is, action is where things happen.

Speaker: 00:58:25

So, uh, I hope you guys been taking notes.

Speaker: 00:58:27

If you haven't, don't worry about it.

Speaker: 00:58:29

I go you just high level experience.

Speaker: 00:58:32

I'll find today's episode.

Speaker: 00:58:33

You know, I put all the, I'll put all the show notes, all.

Speaker: 00:58:36

and, uh, and then you can take action from there.

Speaker: 00:58:39

for, uh, so yeah.

Speaker: 00:58:40

So once again, Michael, thank you so much for being on the show today.

Speaker: 00:58:43

I appreciate you.

Speaker: 00:58:44

Uh, it's been, it's been a pleasure having you on again.

Speaker: 00:58:47

And, uh, guys, thank you guys for listening to today's episode as

Speaker: 00:58:51

well on the hell of experience.

Speaker: 00:58:53

If you've enjoyed today's episode, then please share it with your fellow agency

Speaker: 00:58:56

mates and at a high level that you think would also benefit from listening, show

Speaker: 00:59:00

notes, links and extra tips to help grow your agency or your SaaS with high level,

Speaker: 00:59:04

please go to high level experience.com.

Speaker: 00:59:07

Thank you and have a great rest of your day, everybody.