Vit Muller: 00:00:04

Hello everybody.

Vit Muller: 00:00:05

welcome to another episode on the High Level Experience Podcast.

Vit Muller: 00:00:09

before I kick off, just a small little apology.

Vit Muller: 00:00:11

I know we had a bit of break for the last two weeks.

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lot's been going on on my end.

Vit Muller: 00:00:15

Lots of exciting stuff, which I'll share.

Vit Muller: 00:00:16

I might, I might get into as well.

Vit Muller: 00:00:18

but yeah, pretty excited to be back on track.

Vit Muller: 00:00:20

I've got a whole bunch of exciting guests lineup for the next couple of weeks,

Vit Muller: 00:00:23

guys, and I wanna see this continue.

Vit Muller: 00:00:26

I don't really like these gaps, but you know, sometimes it just happens, right?

Vit Muller: 00:00:29

Life happens, so, anyway, let me introduce you to, today's guest.

Vit Muller: 00:00:32

I'm super excited.

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our guest today is a titan in the world of digital marketing and pioneering the

Vit Muller: 00:00:36

integration of AI with sales automation.

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By his forties, he had already shaped a formidable career working with global

Vit Muller: 00:00:43

brands to launch high impact campaigns and innovative marketing strategies.

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In 2018, . He took a groundbreaking leap by founding lead hero AI,

Vit Muller: 00:00:51

focusing on empowering SMEs with AI driven systems to revolutionize their

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lead generation and sales processes.

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His efforts have unlocked over 300 million in sales and saved businesses

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more than 200,000 hours, proving that technology can indeed detect the wheel

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in customer engagement and sales.

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He's an author of the bestselling book, Leads Machine and Recipient

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of the prestigious High Level.

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Gold award that we're all striving for.

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And, he's not just a thought leader, but a practical innovator

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dedicated to transforming business growth through technology.

Vit Muller: 00:01:26

Please welcome to the show a fellow high level SaaS Francis Rodino.

Francis Rodino: 00:01:37

I

Vit Muller: 00:01:37

Woo.

Francis Rodino: 00:01:38

was with, with an intro like that.

Francis Rodino: 00:01:40

I was expecting the the applause, the sound effects, the Whipple,

Francis Rodino: 00:01:45

the whistles, the pretty girls now.

Vit Muller: 00:01:49

I didn't, mate, I didn't manage.

Vit Muller: 00:01:51

I didn't manage.

Vit Muller: 00:01:51

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:01:52

but that's, that's an interesting idea.

Vit Muller: 00:01:54

You know, maybe in my,

Francis Rodino: 00:01:56

but what you can do with like just a few resources,

Vit Muller: 00:02:00

let's spice it up a hundred percent.

Vit Muller: 00:02:02

mate, you, you've helped businesses unlock like a lot of money in sales and save

Vit Muller: 00:02:07

them hip time with AI and automation.

Vit Muller: 00:02:10

But you know, before you let hero AI that you've got elite hero that

Vit Muller: 00:02:13

you've got now and you know, you know, publishing bestselling books

Vit Muller: 00:02:17

and all that, you were building global campaigns for brands like PlayStation.

Vit Muller: 00:02:21

Can you take us back to that turning point?

Vit Muller: 00:02:23

Like what inspired you?

Vit Muller: 00:02:25

What inspired this shift from big brand marketing to building scalable

Vit Muller: 00:02:29

systems for everyday businesses?

Francis Rodino: 00:02:31

well, I think I have, I've always, you know,

Francis Rodino: 00:02:36

I was in the corporate for.

Francis Rodino: 00:02:38

25 years before starting my company and helping kinda smaller businesses.

Francis Rodino: 00:02:43

Let, let, let's face it.

Francis Rodino: 00:02:44

And, and, and I guess the thing is that in the corporate world, you

Francis Rodino: 00:02:52

know, it, it's not for everyone.

Francis Rodino: 00:02:55

You know, and I've nothing against having a corporate job, but I kind of, I never

Francis Rodino: 00:03:01

felt like I was always in the right place at the right time in my corporate career.

Francis Rodino: 00:03:08

There was something always a little bit like, I was always

Francis Rodino: 00:03:10

questioning like too much.

Francis Rodino: 00:03:12

Like, why are we doing this?

Francis Rodino: 00:03:15

What's the point of this?

Francis Rodino: 00:03:17

You know?

Francis Rodino: 00:03:18

And so I didn't really, I would say I didn't really respond well

Francis Rodino: 00:03:23

to authority and politics within, a corporate environment, although I was

Francis Rodino: 00:03:28

very much a get shit done type of guy.

Francis Rodino: 00:03:31

And I kind of led teams and.

Francis Rodino: 00:03:34

People wanted me on their teams and I did, work on great campaigns and,

Francis Rodino: 00:03:39

and digital products and services.

Francis Rodino: 00:03:43

You know, we helped Nat West build its first online banking platform just@the.com

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boom, at Razorfish, at the BBC.

Francis Rodino: 00:03:51

We launched brands like Dr. Who top Gear online when Facebook was coming out and

Francis Rodino: 00:03:57

building up followings on social media.

Francis Rodino: 00:04:00

And it, you know, I'm not gonna discount that experience, but then,

Francis Rodino: 00:04:06

you know, you really get to the point where you get a little bit

Francis Rodino: 00:04:09

older and you start to question more.

Francis Rodino: 00:04:12

You know?

Francis Rodino: 00:04:12

And, and for me, the job became more about, justifying yourself within

Francis Rodino: 00:04:18

a, within a corporate structure,

Francis Rodino: 00:04:23

rather than being valued on your output or your impact.

Francis Rodino: 00:04:31

And that just didn't sit well with me anymore because as if you, if you

Francis Rodino: 00:04:37

get to, you know, in, in life in your 20 and thirties, you, you feel like

Francis Rodino: 00:04:42

you have plenty of time to learn and make mistakes and you can try things.

Francis Rodino: 00:04:49

You have the luxury of youth to try things out, and if they

Francis Rodino: 00:04:53

don't work out, you can pivot.

Francis Rodino: 00:04:55

And that's where a lot of people's careers kinda tend to have them sway

Francis Rodino: 00:04:59

around and try different things.

Francis Rodino: 00:05:01

And people don't always find themselves and find out who they are.

Francis Rodino: 00:05:06

And a lot of the time, not always, but at least with me, I always felt

Francis Rodino: 00:05:11

unfulfilled and like I wasn't reaching my full potential in terms of what

Francis Rodino: 00:05:16

I could do, what I wanted to do, to being valued, being recognized.

Francis Rodino: 00:05:23

you know, selfishly that's important too.

Francis Rodino: 00:05:26

To feel like, to feel significant.

Francis Rodino: 00:05:29

So I think it was at a point where I'd just got married.

Francis Rodino: 00:05:34

I was already, I was a, global head of digital media and a $3

Francis Rodino: 00:05:39

billion dollar corporation that many people would know about.

Francis Rodino: 00:05:45

And, you know, I, I was just sick of being a number on a spreadsheet

Francis Rodino: 00:05:50

that a private equity firm could just come along and say, all right,

Francis Rodino: 00:05:55

well what's our budget this year?

Francis Rodino: 00:05:56

Okay, we're gonna cut that or cut that, or restructure that.

Francis Rodino: 00:06:00

You go here, you go there and you just don't have any kind of say or control.

Francis Rodino: 00:06:04

And it has nothing to do with your work ethic, nothing to do with your output.

Vit Muller: 00:06:10

Is it, is it like bigger the business, less

Vit Muller: 00:06:12

personal, but less personally gets.

Francis Rodino: 00:06:14

maybe, maybe, but I think at the flip side, I used to

Francis Rodino: 00:06:18

think that that might be true, but I've also kind of worked for more boutique.

Francis Rodino: 00:06:24

Kind of businesses and agencies I work for, government funded

Francis Rodino: 00:06:28

agencies, and you know, they all have a lot of imperfections, you

Francis Rodino: 00:06:34

know, and I never really found a way to navigate that in a happy way.

Francis Rodino: 00:06:40

And so I just came to the point where I thought, you know what?

Francis Rodino: 00:06:42

I, I know that I can do, I can get shit done.

Francis Rodino: 00:06:48

And so I can either continue to play this game and grow older and

Francis Rodino: 00:06:55

retire and define my next decades by building other people's dreams.

Francis Rodino: 00:07:04

Or I can take that same energy, passion, knowhow, dedication, commitment, and

Francis Rodino: 00:07:12

I can actually build it for myself and have control over what it is.

Francis Rodino: 00:07:20

Who we work with, what our services are, the, you know, the value and just take

Francis Rodino: 00:07:25

ownership and responsibility, which I kind of felt I didn't have, you know, you're

Francis Rodino: 00:07:29

in the corporate job, I felt like it's kind of like you're, you're on a river

Francis Rodino: 00:07:32

on a, on a, on a, on an inflatable boat.

Francis Rodino: 00:07:38

Right.

Francis Rodino: 00:07:38

And it's just, you don't have any oars and it's just going and yeah, it

Francis Rodino: 00:07:42

just, if the river is nice and easy and great, you can just go for years.

Francis Rodino: 00:07:48

Yeah.

Francis Rodino: 00:07:48

But sometimes there's a waterfall and then sometimes there's a fork

Francis Rodino: 00:07:53

in the road, but you don't choose, are you going left or right?

Francis Rodino: 00:07:56

No.

Francis Rodino: 00:07:57

It will choose for you and then you can deal with whatever are

Francis Rodino: 00:08:01

the con consequences there.

Francis Rodino: 00:08:04

Restructuring.

Vit Muller: 00:08:05

Francis, can I stop you there?

Vit Muller: 00:08:07

Right.

Vit Muller: 00:08:07

There's so much that I can relate.

Vit Muller: 00:08:09

This is, and I'll bet like a lot of guys listening, it's, they feel like, yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:08:13

I mean, I would think so.

Vit Muller: 00:08:14

At least.

Vit Muller: 00:08:15

I mean, this is the entrepreneurial journey, so typical, right?

Vit Muller: 00:08:18

We work for somebody, we are more of perfectionist.

Vit Muller: 00:08:22

We see alternative ways, how things could be done better.

Vit Muller: 00:08:26

I've always not gone get hurt or you, or you might suggest, but it

Vit Muller: 00:08:29

doesn't, it, it just, you know, lands on deaf ears and it just feels like

Vit Muller: 00:08:34

this is just, what am I doing here?

Vit Muller: 00:08:36

It's just a number.

Vit Muller: 00:08:36

I'm just not being like, nobody gives a shit.

Vit Muller: 00:08:39

Right.

Vit Muller: 00:08:40

I, I mean, I'm same.

Vit Muller: 00:08:41

That's why I run my own business.

Vit Muller: 00:08:42

I've worked for businesses everywhere.

Vit Muller: 00:08:45

I always went into same thing.

Vit Muller: 00:08:46

I look at the imperfection, I look at why are we doing this like this stupid way?

Vit Muller: 00:08:51

And like, I, I, I get it.

Vit Muller: 00:08:52

Like perfection kills progress too, right?

Vit Muller: 00:08:55

So there's that.

Vit Muller: 00:08:55

But if, if you look at something and they're like, yeah, no, that's how, that's

Vit Muller: 00:08:59

how been doing it for the last 10 years.

Vit Muller: 00:09:01

Just go, go with just, you know, just follow the, the rules.

Vit Muller: 00:09:05

Like, well, you're telling me if you haven't changed anything for the last

Vit Muller: 00:09:08

10 years, then that's like, I mean that's, so that's just not satisfying

Vit Muller: 00:09:12

at all to work in a place like that.

Vit Muller: 00:09:14

Right.

Francis Rodino: 00:09:15

Yeah.

Francis Rodino: 00:09:16

And you?

Francis Rodino: 00:09:16

Yeah, a absolutely.

Francis Rodino: 00:09:17

I mean, and, and some people have great, brilliant careers in corporate,

Francis Rodino: 00:09:22

so I don't wanna be that guy that just says, oh, corporate is shit.

Francis Rodino: 00:09:26

But it really is about finding, your, this is gonna sound cheesy,

Francis Rodino: 00:09:32

but I wouldn't say passion.

Francis Rodino: 00:09:33

It's not about passion.

Francis Rodino: 00:09:35

I don't, I'm not that naive, but finding a place where you can make a

Francis Rodino: 00:09:41

contribution and that contribution is valued, appreciate and appreciated.

Francis Rodino: 00:09:49

I think that was really important for me.

Francis Rodino: 00:09:51

Like in 25 years, I never got a promotion to, to earn more money,

Francis Rodino: 00:09:57

I had to leave and get another job.

Francis Rodino: 00:10:01

No one gave me a pat on the back.

Francis Rodino: 00:10:04

It was just expected that you do the thing.

Francis Rodino: 00:10:07

And that to me, you know, it's very, again, very selfishly,

Francis Rodino: 00:10:12

it's like, what the hell?

Francis Rodino: 00:10:14

You know, okay, 20, you're twenties, thirties, you're working, you're learning.

Francis Rodino: 00:10:19

But at the, at the point, there is a point where you start to develop

Francis Rodino: 00:10:24

a massive amount of knowledge.

Francis Rodino: 00:10:27

You know, when I turned 40, I had 20 years of building launching

Francis Rodino: 00:10:33

brands and PPC campaigns and content strategies and brand identities and

Francis Rodino: 00:10:40

digital teams and product development.

Francis Rodino: 00:10:44

And it kind of like, yes, it just goes on and on and on.

Francis Rodino: 00:10:48

Maybe there's a bit more money in your bank account, but at the

Francis Rodino: 00:10:52

same time, your expenses go up.

Francis Rodino: 00:10:55

Because if you play that game, you know, your, your, your lifestyle

Francis Rodino: 00:11:00

and you have kids and your car and a mortgage, and actually you,

Francis Rodino: 00:11:05

you know, you earn more money.

Francis Rodino: 00:11:06

You're in double the money, but you have double the expenses.

Francis Rodino: 00:11:09

And at the end of the day, you know, you go on holiday once or twice a year

Francis Rodino: 00:11:14

and you just play that and you have to turn up into an turn up at an office on

Francis Rodino: 00:11:18

Monday to Friday and justify that you're going to the dentist on, on Thursday

Francis Rodino: 00:11:26

because you need to have a toothache.

Francis Rodino: 00:11:28

And it was like, what the hell?

Francis Rodino: 00:11:30

And you know, the, the, the, the amazing thing about today

Francis Rodino: 00:11:37

is the tools that we have at entrepreneurs.

Francis Rodino: 00:11:41

This is the difference.

Francis Rodino: 00:11:44

This is the difference because 10 years ago, 20 years ago, it wasn't as accessible

Francis Rodino: 00:11:55

and also, especially because you may, a lot of people might not want to build

Francis Rodino: 00:12:01

a performance-based business with a fancy office and lots of people in HR

Francis Rodino: 00:12:08

and headcount and all of that thing.

Francis Rodino: 00:12:10

This, you know, especially in the marketing world, which was kind of

Francis Rodino: 00:12:14

like, I think the dream for a while, like 10, 20 years ago, it was like,

Francis Rodino: 00:12:19

oh, let's build our cool funky agency.

Francis Rodino: 00:12:22

Right?

Francis Rodino: 00:12:23

Whereas, whereas today a one person with the tools available can act

Francis Rodino: 00:12:31

as 30 people in different ways.

Francis Rodino: 00:12:34

Now more than ever.

Francis Rodino: 00:12:35

With the AI agents that we can now start to deploy.

Francis Rodino: 00:12:39

For our business.

Francis Rodino: 00:12:40

So it's very exciting for people.

Francis Rodino: 00:12:43

You know, we, we, we, I felt, you know, I felt like I looked around at

Francis Rodino: 00:12:50

me at the, at the, I looked around at the world and I thought, hold on.

Francis Rodino: 00:12:54

These tools, this softwares, I can build a business, I can be a

Francis Rodino: 00:13:00

consultant, I can do something that will take care of my family and give

Francis Rodino: 00:13:09

me more control and, significance, I guess, contribution in order to make

Francis Rodino: 00:13:16

a greater contribution by myself.

Francis Rodino: 00:13:20

And the only problem that you have at that point is the mindset.

Francis Rodino: 00:13:26

The mindset shift to go, I can do this.

Francis Rodino: 00:13:32

I won't fail.

Francis Rodino: 00:13:33

Like the belief in yourself because why, what you, you know, the next question

Francis Rodino: 00:13:39

might be, oh, why doesn't everyone do it?

Francis Rodino: 00:13:41

Then If you can earn more money, make a greater impact, be your

Francis Rodino: 00:13:45

own boss, have more time freedom, why doesn't everyone do that?

Francis Rodino: 00:13:51

Why?

Francis Rodino: 00:13:53

And I, I speak to, I speak to friends of mine who are still in

Francis Rodino: 00:13:58

corporate and as they get older, they get fired from their jobs and

Francis Rodino: 00:14:01

they're not looking for their jobs.

Francis Rodino: 00:14:03

And then they say, oh, you know, there's ageism.

Francis Rodino: 00:14:06

There's ageism, and then there's, there's a male discrimination as well be, and

Francis Rodino: 00:14:11

there's racial discrimination because HR have to have quotas around who they hire

Francis Rodino: 00:14:18

and ethnicities and, oh, we need to have this amount of diversity in the business.

Francis Rodino: 00:14:23

And, you know, and people get pushed.

Francis Rodino: 00:14:25

Really great, experienced people get pushed out of the marketplace.

Francis Rodino: 00:14:31

Yet they don't.

Francis Rodino: 00:14:32

They just continue to suffer and look for jobs on LinkedIn.

Vit Muller: 00:14:36

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:14:37

I mean, that's a whole nother, I mean, yeah, that's a whole

Vit Muller: 00:14:40

nother can of worm, right?

Vit Muller: 00:14:41

It should be.

Vit Muller: 00:14:42

I mean, recognition and remuneration and positions and

Vit Muller: 00:14:46

hiring all should be best in merit.

Vit Muller: 00:14:49

I mean, I, yeah, I mean, I, I, I, I wanna stay outta politics 'cause

Vit Muller: 00:14:53

I, I, I respect everyone's opinion.

Vit Muller: 00:14:55

I don't wanna be too polarizing on this subject 'cause yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:14:58

But you know what I mean, like, it should be based on merit and your,

Vit Muller: 00:15:00

like, actual skills and not just bloody quarters and crap like that.

Francis Rodino: 00:15:05

Yeah, I mean, you.

Vit Muller: 00:15:06

I every ev

Francis Rodino: 00:15:08

Everyone should have a chance.

Francis Rodino: 00:15:10

And that's, that's the thing in everyone, meaning everyone, meaning older people,

Francis Rodino: 00:15:15

white people, black people, gay people, I mean, everyone should have a chance

Francis Rodino: 00:15:20

and you hire the best person, right?

Francis Rodino: 00:15:22

but it's kind of not like that.

Francis Rodino: 00:15:24

It kind of goes either way in one, one way all the way or the other way, all the way.

Francis Rodino: 00:15:30

And there's someone that always loses out.

Francis Rodino: 00:15:33

But I guess maybe you didn't expect to talk about this kind of stuff.

Francis Rodino: 00:15:37

But I, I kind of think it's relevant because it's, you know, we are talking

Francis Rodino: 00:15:43

about tools that empower people to actually do things differently.

Francis Rodino: 00:15:52

And why don't, why doesn't everyone do it?

Francis Rodino: 00:15:54

You know?

Francis Rodino: 00:15:55

It's, it's only, it's, I didn't know how to start a business.

Francis Rodino: 00:15:59

I didn't, I didn't know how to sell.

Francis Rodino: 00:16:02

I didn't have high level at the time.

Francis Rodino: 00:16:05

I didn't, know what I was gonna do.

Francis Rodino: 00:16:09

I just thought, I'll, I can do something.

Francis Rodino: 00:16:12

I'm capable of more.

Francis Rodino: 00:16:14

I can help people.

Francis Rodino: 00:16:15

And I had to go on that journey where you just go, I will figure

Francis Rodino: 00:16:21

it out, or I will spend every last penny of all of my savings doing it,

Francis Rodino: 00:16:27

and, I'll burn all of the bridges and never look for a job again.

Francis Rodino: 00:16:30

And by the way, some, in the first couple of years, I, it was so painful that I

Francis Rodino: 00:16:39

did go onto LinkedIn and job boards and think, I can't do this entrepreneurship.

Francis Rodino: 00:16:44

Like, it's not how, how long?

Vit Muller: 00:16:48

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:16:48

And it's good that you say that because you know, I don't want

Vit Muller: 00:16:51

anybody to think that, you know?

Vit Muller: 00:16:53

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:16:53

Like, we're all human beings.

Vit Muller: 00:16:55

Right.

Vit Muller: 00:16:55

You guys listening, I'm sure you've gone through those moments.

Vit Muller: 00:16:57

I've gone through those moments and I still get through those

Vit Muller: 00:16:59

moments every now and then.

Vit Muller: 00:17:00

Right.

Vit Muller: 00:17:00

It's just the nature of it, journey of entrepreneurs, the entrepreneur

Vit Muller: 00:17:05

journey full of up and downs.

Vit Muller: 00:17:06

Right.

Vit Muller: 00:17:07

But, at the end of the day, it's, you look at, you know, you average it out and

Vit Muller: 00:17:10

as long as it's going up, that's great.

Vit Muller: 00:17:13

Might just take a longer, but yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:17:15

I'm all with you on that.

Vit Muller: 00:17:16

It's a tough one, but

Francis Rodino: 00:17:18

It is resilient, but I think, you know, if, if anybody's

Francis Rodino: 00:17:21

listening and can relate to some of these stories of challenges and pain,

Francis Rodino: 00:17:29

it's not, I think especially when you're starting out, the challenge is

Francis Rodino: 00:17:34

not like getting the money and building your business as quick as possible.

Francis Rodino: 00:17:40

It's basically just staying in the game and not quitting and the resilience and

Francis Rodino: 00:17:47

it's, it's kind of like when Rocky Balboa.

Francis Rodino: 00:17:52

Rocky five says something like, it's not, it's not about how hard you

Francis Rodino: 00:17:56

hit, it's about how many times you can get his hit and still get up.

Francis Rodino: 00:18:02

And I really feel that quote makes a lot of sense to me because even today

Francis Rodino: 00:18:08

I get punched in the face, but I take it much better than I did earlier on.

Francis Rodino: 00:18:14

And earlier on you get punched in the face a lot because what are you just,

Francis Rodino: 00:18:19

it's no, no rejection constantly.

Francis Rodino: 00:18:22

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Vit Muller: 00:18:24

Yeah.

Francis Rodino: 00:18:25

And if you leave and go, you're out.

Francis Rodino: 00:18:29

But if you continue down that path, you are learning from every punch.

Francis Rodino: 00:18:35

Some of the, some of the biggest business punches in my entrepreneur life have

Francis Rodino: 00:18:42

actually helped me develop new products.

Francis Rodino: 00:18:45

Which I'm monetizing right now.

Francis Rodino: 00:18:48

You know, it's like, fuck that guy.

Francis Rodino: 00:18:50

He, oh, he fucked me up.

Francis Rodino: 00:18:51

Okay, fine.

Francis Rodino: 00:18:52

Right.

Francis Rodino: 00:18:52

We're gonna develop a product and we're gonna show him, and it's gonna do this

Francis Rodino: 00:18:56

and this and this, and then, you know, we have an info product, which we're

Francis Rodino: 00:19:00

monetizing via ads and it would never have happened if you don't get those slaps.

Vit Muller: 00:19:06

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:19:06

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:19:06

It's actually Both is good.

Vit Muller: 00:19:08

Both is good.

Vit Muller: 00:19:08

You are either learning or you're growing.

Vit Muller: 00:19:11

That's no bad,

Francis Rodino: 00:19:12

there you go.

Francis Rodino: 00:19:13

So, I'm not sure this, do you need to beep out any cursing?

Vit Muller: 00:19:18

I, I, no, it's, you know, I, this is my show.

Vit Muller: 00:19:21

I'm totally unapologetic the way, whatever I say, I, I, you know, this is a

Francis Rodino: 00:19:25

isn't over 18.

Francis Rodino: 00:19:27

Over 18.

Francis Rodino: 00:19:27

Podcast.

Vit Muller: 00:19:29

no, it's all good, mate.

Vit Muller: 00:19:30

It's all good.

Vit Muller: 00:19:31

And, I was gonna segue, you know, you were saying, you know, get,

Vit Muller: 00:19:34

getting punched in the face and you learn from these experiences.

Vit Muller: 00:19:37

I don't know, my, my brain works weird ways, weird ways, but I've

Vit Muller: 00:19:40

got these, like, I got that segue.

Vit Muller: 00:19:41

It's not really a segue, but I was gonna say, like, I. One of the best experiences

Vit Muller: 00:19:46

that I've found was, when I was back in Czech Republic last year, I caught up with

Vit Muller: 00:19:50

a couple of my mates, went to Berlin and we just did like a, a train training camp.

Vit Muller: 00:19:54

I, I'm not a martial artist or anything, but mate, mate of mine,

Vit Muller: 00:19:57

he, he does, teach people kraft maga.

Vit Muller: 00:19:58

He's like, come up to Berlin, there's a few other, my mates or

Vit Muller: 00:20:02

from Scotland, you know them as well and we're just gonna beat the shit

Vit Muller: 00:20:05

out of each other for four days.

Vit Muller: 00:20:06

How does that sound like?

Vit Muller: 00:20:07

That sounds brilliant.

Vit Muller: 00:20:08

And I gotta say, there's something pretty special about like, training eight hours

Vit Muller: 00:20:12

a day, you know, practicing some martial arts that gives you skill, but also at the

Vit Muller: 00:20:18

end of that training for the last hour, just putting a gloves on and just, just

Vit Muller: 00:20:23

sparring, just like in a friendly way.

Vit Muller: 00:20:26

No, no, you know, no anger or like that, but like just beating the

Vit Muller: 00:20:30

shit out, like therapeutic as hell.

Vit Muller: 00:20:33

Probably not for everybody, but it

Francis Rodino: 00:20:35

got some,

Vit Muller: 00:20:36

like.

Francis Rodino: 00:20:37

got some aggression out of you, and then you're like.

Vit Muller: 00:20:40

Big time.

Vit Muller: 00:20:41

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:20:41

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:20:41

You let some steam out at the end.

Vit Muller: 00:20:43

We hug it out.

Vit Muller: 00:20:43

Go for bees, go for steak.

Vit Muller: 00:20:45

This is brilliant.

Vit Muller: 00:20:46

Yeah, I can, I can't recommend it enough.

Vit Muller: 00:20:47

Like, yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:20:49

Anyway, let's talk about, let's talk about the obvious.

Vit Muller: 00:20:53

What I think a lot of people might want to hear.

Vit Muller: 00:20:55

We got some new sapr or wanna be sapr high level as he in, in listening as well.

Vit Muller: 00:21:00

And you know, I wanna make sure that we provide some,

Vit Muller: 00:21:03

some practicality here as well.

Vit Muller: 00:21:05

because whilst sharing personal journeys and wisdom, I love it.

Vit Muller: 00:21:08

I wanna make sure we stay about high level as well, for those guys listening.

Vit Muller: 00:21:12

So we, would you mind, I mean, you know, SaaSpreneur event just happened in London.

Vit Muller: 00:21:16

I don't know if you're still gold, gold plate or you, you've gone up or what's

Vit Muller: 00:21:19

gold, but can you tell us about where you are for the people that don't know

Vit Muller: 00:21:24

you and I, I had a bit of an intro, but if you wanna unpack that a little

Vit Muller: 00:21:27

bit and how did you get to where you're now with, you know, being gold and.

Francis Rodino: 00:21:30

Yeah.

Francis Rodino: 00:21:31

so I, we, we built lead hero.

Francis Rodino: 00:21:36

Lead hero.

Francis Rodino: 00:21:37

AI is, my SaaS agency, but you know the word SaaS, I have.

Francis Rodino: 00:21:44

Kind of like, it's not clear to me what that really means

Francis Rodino: 00:21:49

in the context of high level,

Vit Muller: 00:21:53

Mm-hmm.

Francis Rodino: 00:21:54

because high level is used in so many different ways by

Francis Rodino: 00:21:59

different businesses and this whole idea of self-serve software as a service,

Francis Rodino: 00:22:07

you know, it, it, it's,

Vit Muller: 00:22:09

because on your website it's like done for you set up,

Francis Rodino: 00:22:12

yeah, I think that's really what what we came to evolve.

Francis Rodino: 00:22:17

You know, the evolution of working with high level has been that if we, if we

Francis Rodino: 00:22:25

don't set up and customize and service, we have more churn than it's worth, right?

Francis Rodino: 00:22:35

So.

Vit Muller: 00:22:36

you know, you know the numbers from the volume that you've done.

Vit Muller: 00:22:38

It's not just like on a, yeah.

Francis Rodino: 00:22:39

Yeah, exactly.

Francis Rodino: 00:22:40

Well, the, the thing is that we, we came to a certain volume, right?

Francis Rodino: 00:22:45

But I'm not, I'm, I'm less interested now in go getting to like 500 or a

Francis Rodino: 00:22:53

thousand SaaS clients because I just realized like the work involved to

Francis Rodino: 00:23:02

keep them on and keep the results coming in are very time consuming

Francis Rodino: 00:23:11

for us and, and, and costly, right?

Francis Rodino: 00:23:14

And, and we are kind of in a different world now where high level is becoming

Francis Rodino: 00:23:22

more well known amongst many businesses.

Francis Rodino: 00:23:26

So you can't pretend it's your software anymore.

Francis Rodino: 00:23:28

Whereas in the beginning, seven years ago, that was the key.

Francis Rodino: 00:23:33

To saas, it was like, oh, I have my own software.

Francis Rodino: 00:23:37

Come on board and you can do all, you can do all of this.

Francis Rodino: 00:23:41

And look, I hold my hand up.

Francis Rodino: 00:23:43

I did it.

Francis Rodino: 00:23:45

We got clients that way.

Francis Rodino: 00:23:48

My competitors did it.

Francis Rodino: 00:23:49

A lot of people jumped on board and copied what we were, exactly what we were doing.

Francis Rodino: 00:23:56

But as high level became more well known as a brand, people would just

Francis Rodino: 00:24:02

leave us and go direct to high level.

Francis Rodino: 00:24:04

Like if you can do, if you're savvy enough to use it as a SaaS by yourself,

Francis Rodino: 00:24:12

meaning set everything you up yourself.

Francis Rodino: 00:24:15

Create workflows yourself, set up and configure, email deliverable, all of

Francis Rodino: 00:24:20

that if you actually can do it yourself.

Francis Rodino: 00:24:24

You don't need a SaaS provider like us.

Francis Rodino: 00:24:29

To just offer you high level,

Vit Muller: 00:24:31

Yep.

Vit Muller: 00:24:31

I a hundred percent agree with you.

Francis Rodino: 00:24:33

you know what I mean.

Francis Rodino: 00:24:34

And so that really wasn't the problem back in the day when we started because

Francis Rodino: 00:24:40

they didn't know what was the alternative, like high level was this, they didn't

Francis Rodino: 00:24:44

know there was something underneath.

Francis Rodino: 00:24:47

Right?

Francis Rodino: 00:24:47

And that was high level.

Francis Rodino: 00:24:48

And then you could just pay $97 a month and go direct and get it.

Francis Rodino: 00:24:53

And they have onboarding and they have support and you can

Francis Rodino: 00:24:57

jump on Zoom calls with them.

Francis Rodino: 00:24:58

It's like, why on earth if, if you are technically savvy, why on

Francis Rodino: 00:25:03

earth would you go with any other kind of agency and get stuck on

Francis Rodino: 00:25:07

high level with, with them, right?

Vit Muller: 00:25:10

So, yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:25:11

So let's go into that, because now we're scaring a lot of people off now.

Vit Muller: 00:25:15

Like, what?

Vit Muller: 00:25:15

So I shouldn't do high level?

Vit Muller: 00:25:16

No, let's, let's unpack it because it's, it's, it's what they could do,

Vit Muller: 00:25:20

but the reality is different, right?

Vit Muller: 00:25:22

We know it with small businesses is

Francis Rodino: 00:25:24

Absolutely.

Francis Rodino: 00:25:25

So I, I, I, I am, I'm one of those guys.

Francis Rodino: 00:25:28

I'm talking about what the opportunity is now because it's the, it's a

Francis Rodino: 00:25:33

little bit different to what, how we developed our first a hundred clients.

Francis Rodino: 00:25:39

And I talked about this in my, in my talk, my talk at Saas

Francis Rodino: 00:25:44

preneur was all about this.

Francis Rodino: 00:25:45

And, you know, we had, we had joint ventures, we did

Francis Rodino: 00:25:49

partnerships, we did webinars.

Francis Rodino: 00:25:51

We, we had, we niched down into trades in the uk.

Francis Rodino: 00:25:55

and we developed also some online products to help businesses with their marketing.

Francis Rodino: 00:26:01

And then we would put them on our high level.

Francis Rodino: 00:26:04

But I'll tell you that it was very customized white glove all, everyone,

Francis Rodino: 00:26:11

all those hundred where it, it was not just, oh, here's high level.

Francis Rodino: 00:26:16

No, no, it was.

Francis Rodino: 00:26:17

We'll integrate your website forms, we'll set you up with custom tracking numbers.

Francis Rodino: 00:26:22

So we would do a lot of work on the front end and sometimes we would charge

Francis Rodino: 00:26:26

setup fees and sometimes we wouldn't.

Francis Rodino: 00:26:30

And we never really had, we never really had a rule around that.

Francis Rodino: 00:26:34

'cause I, you know, we would, it's very difficult to, it's very difficult to

Francis Rodino: 00:26:38

just put it in stone or not for us.

Francis Rodino: 00:26:42

And, and in our market in the uk.

Francis Rodino: 00:26:44

So ours was, we realized we needed to set up our clients properly.

Francis Rodino: 00:26:51

we would charge maybe a couple of grand and for larger clients up to 10 K, 10 15 k

Francis Rodino: 00:26:58

you know, depending easily on complexity.

Francis Rodino: 00:27:02

But that's not SaaS.

Francis Rodino: 00:27:05

It becomes a SaaS once there.

Francis Rodino: 00:27:11

They've been onboarded and built, built out and trained.

Francis Rodino: 00:27:15

So it sounds like it's more like systems, self-serve systems, which we do now.

Francis Rodino: 00:27:23

And that's why I think the point of differentiation is about how

Francis Rodino: 00:27:29

we build your system and consult and do the smart thinking.

Vit Muller: 00:27:32

Mm-hmm.

Francis Rodino: 00:27:33

if you have the knowledge that I and my team have to build your

Francis Rodino: 00:27:38

system, you absolutely don't need us.

Francis Rodino: 00:27:41

But 99% of people don't.

Francis Rodino: 00:27:43

And so we are very specific about like we're looking for businesses that have

Francis Rodino: 00:27:48

that knowledge gap, technical gap where we can come in as consultants and say,

Francis Rodino: 00:27:54

all right, well this is where you are.

Francis Rodino: 00:27:56

We can use high level and we use our high level as a tool.

Francis Rodino: 00:28:01

And we'll build out what you need and then you can log into it and

Francis Rodino: 00:28:05

use it on a day-to-day basis.

Francis Rodino: 00:28:07

And then that's self-serve.

Francis Rodino: 00:28:09

But we, we don't just kind of sell, you can't just go online and

Francis Rodino: 00:28:13

pay some money and just get on.

Francis Rodino: 00:28:16

That's the, that's the thing.

Francis Rodino: 00:28:17

So we are a little bit different in that respect.

Francis Rodino: 00:28:20

And I like talking about that because I think that in the US you have a

Francis Rodino: 00:28:27

lot of people that just talk about scaling high level and how easy it is.

Francis Rodino: 00:28:31

And maybe that's what they've experienced in the market.

Francis Rodino: 00:28:36

But actually it took us many years and a lot of work to get a Sapr award.

Francis Rodino: 00:28:44

it's been an, it's been nice to have that as an achievement, but at the same

Francis Rodino: 00:28:50

time, you know, we are very much about.

Francis Rodino: 00:28:54

Strategy systems, thoughtfulness.

Francis Rodino: 00:28:58

and now that we have that kind of client base, we don't really seek

Francis Rodino: 00:29:04

that a hundred dollars a month.

Francis Rodino: 00:29:07

Kind of just sell high level and just use it.

Francis Rodino: 00:29:10

No, none of our clients use it.

Francis Rodino: 00:29:12

That's the thing.

Francis Rodino: 00:29:13

None of our clients, they're so busy business owners doing their business,

Francis Rodino: 00:29:18

growing their business, doing something else that they're not, don't have capacity

Francis Rodino: 00:29:23

to go in and set up the conversational ai.

Francis Rodino: 00:29:27

So it does, does that.

Francis Rodino: 00:29:30

You need to engage in that.

Francis Rodino: 00:29:31

That done for you, I think is a really important part.

Francis Rodino: 00:29:34

Knowing and knowing how to do it right.

Vit Muller: 00:29:37

yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:29:37

No, there's so much that I relate to because I've got my business model at

Vit Muller: 00:29:40

my agency, stand out from the park, very, very similar systems, onboard

Vit Muller: 00:29:44

systems, and, and obviously big leverage on, on snapshots because that's

Vit Muller: 00:29:50

where you make it more profitable.

Vit Muller: 00:29:52

but yeah, I'm a hundred percent feeling on that.

Vit Muller: 00:29:53

I did, recently started to get into a bit of a custom stuff again, which was

Vit Muller: 00:29:57

interesting, lucrative, but not scalable, you know, the two step system that Troy in

Vit Muller: 00:30:02

suggests from the agency, Mavericks, you

Francis Rodino: 00:30:05

No.

Francis Rodino: 00:30:06

What's that?

Francis Rodino: 00:30:06

No.

Francis Rodino: 00:30:07

Tell me what that

Vit Muller: 00:30:08

it works.

Vit Muller: 00:30:09

It's, it's brilliant.

Vit Muller: 00:30:10

I use it, right?

Vit Muller: 00:30:10

So you've got a small business that might have like 10 employees in, plus, you know,

Vit Muller: 00:30:14

they've got like a decent turnover and you know, they're busy doing their thing.

Vit Muller: 00:30:17

Like I'm talking to a plumber right now and he's branching in

Vit Muller: 00:30:20

into electrician's work and, and a, you know, HVAC and all those.

Vit Muller: 00:30:25

He wants to, you know, he wants to, you know, grow his empire, right?

Vit Muller: 00:30:29

And so we just scoped it out, you know, and obviously he's

Vit Muller: 00:30:32

using his job management, system.

Vit Muller: 00:30:34

I think he's using service mate, but he doesn't really have the scalable

Vit Muller: 00:30:38

thing for sales, for Legion, for sales.

Vit Muller: 00:30:40

So that's what I know I can provide.

Vit Muller: 00:30:42

And so the process is you struck a conversation with somebody like that.

Vit Muller: 00:30:46

Obviously build a bit of report BNI or whatever you need to do.

Vit Muller: 00:30:50

But once you get, once you get bit, bit of a trust in the market and you get

Vit Muller: 00:30:53

that opportunity to talk to a client like that, especially the business

Vit Muller: 00:30:55

owner, I get on Zoom, I used to do it in person, but now a rule is always Zoom

Vit Muller: 00:30:59

'cause I need to gather all that intel.

Vit Muller: 00:31:01

So it's like a nine 90 minutes call, discovery call.

Vit Muller: 00:31:05

And if I see, okay, this is definitely a viable thing, they

Vit Muller: 00:31:08

definitely are interested, then I would sell them a strategy package.

Vit Muller: 00:31:13

Which might be depending on business size of the business and

Vit Muller: 00:31:16

depending how I already in my head know how complex it's gonna be.

Vit Muller: 00:31:18

But typically minimum would be a thousand at the bare minimum, but really wanna be

Vit Muller: 00:31:23

like 5K or even like 10 K. And what that is, is a series of additional subsequent

Vit Muller: 00:31:30

discovery sessions where we go into more detail about the current processes,

Vit Muller: 00:31:34

doing more research in the industry, research about their area, research

Vit Muller: 00:31:38

about their business, how they run it.

Vit Muller: 00:31:40

And then, so I use this thing called double diamond, which is

Vit Muller: 00:31:43

a human centered design thinking.

Vit Muller: 00:31:44

So you got two diamonds and the first one is, figuring out

Vit Muller: 00:31:47

the core problem statement.

Vit Muller: 00:31:48

And then the other one is figuring out the core solution.

Vit Muller: 00:31:51

And each diamond is like, diver, divergent convergent thinking.

Vit Muller: 00:31:55

So the first half of the diamond is like open white, there's no limits.

Vit Muller: 00:31:58

And that's those discovery calls trying to list down all the different problems that

Vit Muller: 00:32:03

the client is facing, all the different bottlenecks, then distill it down.

Vit Muller: 00:32:08

Into the second half.

Vit Muller: 00:32:09

Is this the, is that convergent?

Vit Muller: 00:32:10

Convergent is narrowing That is it, yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:32:11

So then you go into the convergent, they, they're distilling, get onto those

Vit Muller: 00:32:14

core problems that you know are gonna be making the most impact for the business.

Vit Muller: 00:32:20

And then you go into prototyping the solution.

Vit Muller: 00:32:21

Now solution is obviously something that's gonna be built inside higher level.

Vit Muller: 00:32:25

So then I use mind mapping tool, like, Clickup has a whiteboard thing.

Vit Muller: 00:32:29

I love it.

Vit Muller: 00:32:29

And I just visually map it all out.

Vit Muller: 00:32:32

So the first half I actually map it out as well, which is like the current state.

Vit Muller: 00:32:36

And then the second half is actually map it out, visual representation

Vit Muller: 00:32:39

of the assets in high level.

Vit Muller: 00:32:42

So what exact pipeline, what exact stages, what custom fields are need to develop.

Vit Muller: 00:32:46

There'll be like qualifying because there's could be particular questions

Vit Muller: 00:32:50

that that should be put into firm forms and surveys for that particular business.

Vit Muller: 00:32:55

Everything's gonna make sense and you map it all out.

Vit Muller: 00:32:57

Then you have meeting some feedback loops if the client.

Vit Muller: 00:33:02

And things start to make a little of sense for them because now they can see

Vit Muller: 00:33:05

the vi, see it visually like, here is traffic goes here, this automation, that

Vit Muller: 00:33:10

automation, this funnel, that funnel this, and here's ai, and then all that.

Vit Muller: 00:33:14

And then you explain it visually over maybe two sessions.

Vit Muller: 00:33:19

And then once you see a client, oh, this is brilliant.

Vit Muller: 00:33:21

Yeah, I, I need this at this point, they've already paid you

Vit Muller: 00:33:24

for the development of this.

Vit Muller: 00:33:26

So then you say, look, you paid us for this.

Vit Muller: 00:33:29

Now we're gonna pitch you how much is gonna be the actual fulfillment.

Vit Muller: 00:33:32

Now we need to actually go and develop

Francis Rodino: 00:33:34

Mm-hmm.

Vit Muller: 00:33:35

That might be 20 K, that might be 30 k, whatever.

Vit Muller: 00:33:37

So the way we do it is, yeah, we do it like this.

Vit Muller: 00:33:40

And generally the client goes ahead because now they've, they've seen it.

Vit Muller: 00:33:43

It's not like they don't no longer just see the figure.

Vit Muller: 00:33:46

We don't tell them the figure until the mapping's done.

Vit Muller: 00:33:48

And the way we sell them the strategy package, we say, look, we'll do this.

Vit Muller: 00:33:52

Here, and I'll show them an example.

Vit Muller: 00:33:53

Here's an example we, we did for somebody else.

Vit Muller: 00:33:55

And then when they see that whiteboard all mapped out, they're like, first of

Vit Muller: 00:33:59

all, that's like showing credibility.

Vit Muller: 00:34:00

And like straightaway, you like position yourself as an expert so they can see

Vit Muller: 00:34:03

that you're not just smoking mirrors.

Francis Rodino: 00:34:05

Hmm.

Vit Muller: 00:34:06

And then you say, look, at the end of that, you're gonna have something

Vit Muller: 00:34:09

that is like a, a kind of like a blueprint and you can take it to anybody else and

Vit Muller: 00:34:15

quote, get quotes, whatever you wanna do.

Vit Muller: 00:34:16

But if you go with us, then whatever you paid for it, we're gonna

Vit Muller: 00:34:20

credit you towards the fulfillment.

Vit Muller: 00:34:21

So if it's 30 K and you pay 5K, 20 5K is what you pay.

Vit Muller: 00:34:25

Obviously you can break it down.

Vit Muller: 00:34:26

So you say, okay, well it's not gonna be upfront, right?

Vit Muller: 00:34:28

There's gonna be a roadmap.

Vit Muller: 00:34:29

We're gonna have to develop it.

Vit Muller: 00:34:31

It might take us three months, but we're gonna do it in phases, but you're gonna

Vit Muller: 00:34:34

get access to the system right away.

Vit Muller: 00:34:36

And then we're gonna do phases.

Vit Muller: 00:34:37

So everything, every milestone, you're gonna see even more profitability.

Vit Muller: 00:34:41

But yeah, it works really well, but only for like a bigger business.

Vit Muller: 00:34:44

The only caveat with that, is there's always gonna be custom stuff.

Vit Muller: 00:34:48

So you can always try to go like as much as productize and build stuff on the back

Vit Muller: 00:34:53

of like core snapshots, like a foundation, and then you need to customize those.

Vit Muller: 00:34:57

That's always gonna be a little bit faster.

Vit Muller: 00:34:59

But yeah, I mean, interesting approach, but it's worked, it worked, worked

Vit Muller: 00:35:04

so much to a point where you can actually do it even for like in the

Vit Muller: 00:35:06

sky, if you guys are listening, right?

Vit Muller: 00:35:09

You might be at a point where you've been at high level for, for a while

Vit Muller: 00:35:12

and you're like, you know what?

Vit Muller: 00:35:13

I don't really want to grow my own base.

Vit Muller: 00:35:15

I literally have high level and I'm, I'm really good at what I

Vit Muller: 00:35:17

can, I'm can build all cool shit.

Vit Muller: 00:35:19

You, you can do is position yourself as somebody who's really good at it.

Vit Muller: 00:35:23

Approach other agencies and actually build them a really good

Vit Muller: 00:35:26

snapshot for a particular industry.

Vit Muller: 00:35:29

And then before you know it, you can actually become a fulfillment partner,

Vit Muller: 00:35:32

which is what happened to me recently was approached, build a Snapshot was,

Vit Muller: 00:35:37

was a big ticket, development because it was very nuanced and super technical.

Vit Muller: 00:35:42

and, you know, they loved it so much and then they pitched it at

Vit Muller: 00:35:45

a conference, that market that it was built for, everybody wanted it.

Vit Muller: 00:35:49

So then they were like, what do we do?

Vit Muller: 00:35:51

Like what do we do now?

Vit Muller: 00:35:52

Like just, you know, you've got it now, fulfill on it.

Vit Muller: 00:35:55

But then they realized that they were service-based agency this whole

Vit Muller: 00:35:58

time, SEO Arts performance, right?

Vit Muller: 00:36:01

So they didn't have that arm built out or fulfillment, team.

Vit Muller: 00:36:05

So then, you know, we struck up a deal and now I'm there for fulfillment partner and

Vit Muller: 00:36:09

now I'm growing my team and doing that.

Francis Rodino: 00:36:12

That's

Vit Muller: 00:36:12

So there's so many opportunities.

Vit Muller: 00:36:15

How, how you can, like, how you can skin the cat, but like, this is good one

Vit Muller: 00:36:19

because I don't have to deal with sales.

Vit Muller: 00:36:21

Nothing.

Vit Muller: 00:36:21

They just, new client we need to fulfill.

Vit Muller: 00:36:24

Okay.

Vit Muller: 00:36:24

You just gotta get the numbers right.

Vit Muller: 00:36:26

Make sure that is a good margin.

Vit Muller: 00:36:28

It's brilliant.

Francis Rodino: 00:36:30

Sounds awesome.

Vit Muller: 00:36:32

Yeah, but I don't look, I don't wanna make it about me.

Vit Muller: 00:36:35

I, I, I want to get you to talk a bit more about how you guys, you

Vit Muller: 00:36:39

know, how you guys do what you do.

Vit Muller: 00:36:40

If there's anything particular that you feel like might be worth

Vit Muller: 00:36:43

sharing to some of those guys that might be at the beginning of their

Vit Muller: 00:36:46

journey and be like a pro tip.

Vit Muller: 00:36:48

What you reckon

Francis Rodino: 00:36:49

Yeah.

Francis Rodino: 00:36:50

let me get, let me get something to show you.

Francis Rodino: 00:36:54

So I'll share something that I presented at the SaaS.

Vit Muller: 00:36:59

So guys, if you're listening on a podcast, just an audio version,

Vit Muller: 00:37:03

if you wanna watch this, head over to, youtube.com/HighLevel Experience Podcas.

Vit Muller: 00:37:09

or if you just head over to harvard experience.com, you'll

Vit Muller: 00:37:11

find the link to YouTube.

Vit Muller: 00:37:12

You can get to it and watch it there.

Francis Rodino: 00:37:14

Awesome.

Francis Rodino: 00:37:16

Awesome.

Francis Rodino: 00:37:17

So how do we do what we do?

Francis Rodino: 00:37:20

It's kind of relevant.

Francis Rodino: 00:37:21

This'll make sense to you.

Francis Rodino: 00:37:25

but I'm gonna give you a whirlwind,

Francis Rodino: 00:37:29

whirlwind, overview of my method.

Francis Rodino: 00:37:34

Where is it?

Francis Rodino: 00:37:35

Here?

Francis Rodino: 00:37:37

Okay.

Francis Rodino: 00:37:39

You see my screen there?

Vit Muller: 00:37:41

Yes.

Vit Muller: 00:37:41

Let me just, I'm just gonna move you to my bigger screen.

Vit Muller: 00:37:44

I can see this.

Vit Muller: 00:37:45

Yep.

Vit Muller: 00:37:46

Brilliant.

Vit Muller: 00:37:46

Oh, excellent.

Vit Muller: 00:37:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:37:49

This is very, this is, have you done any work with, Taki Moore by any chance?

Francis Rodino: 00:37:53

no I haven't.

Vit Muller: 00:37:56

no.

Vit Muller: 00:37:56

That's okay.

Vit Muller: 00:37:56

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:37:57

It's just, something that resonated

Francis Rodino: 00:37:58

Yeah.

Francis Rodino: 00:37:59

Well, this kind of looks, like a Venn diagram.

Francis Rodino: 00:38:01

It's a glorified Venn diagram essentially, and we put

Francis Rodino: 00:38:05

essentially our process into this.

Francis Rodino: 00:38:07

So, you know, at, at the end of the day, the businesses that they work with,

Francis Rodino: 00:38:14

they aspire to a, a happy, thriving business, life and future, right?

Francis Rodino: 00:38:24

That's kind of what people want.

Francis Rodino: 00:38:27

Ultimately.

Francis Rodino: 00:38:28

Not so much the drill in, in the drill bit, but that outcome.

Francis Rodino: 00:38:34

And in order to do that, we help them with three core outcomes, is

Francis Rodino: 00:38:38

putting in place greater control.

Francis Rodino: 00:38:41

A mechanism for predictable sales and helping their business

Francis Rodino: 00:38:47

stand out, stand out visibility.

Francis Rodino: 00:38:51

And

Vit Muller: 00:38:52

Brilliant.

Francis Rodino: 00:38:53

we create a roadmap for them because the businesses that

Francis Rodino: 00:38:57

we work with usually, like the, the, the businesses, the, the, the question

Francis Rodino: 00:39:03

I hear so often is, what do I do?

Francis Rodino: 00:39:09

What do I do next?

Francis Rodino: 00:39:13

What?

Francis Rodino: 00:39:14

Show me.

Francis Rodino: 00:39:15

Right?

Francis Rodino: 00:39:16

Show me a pathway.

Francis Rodino: 00:39:18

Because even a lot of small businesses that may not be investing or spending

Francis Rodino: 00:39:24

their money in the right way, it's because they don't have confidence and clarity.

Francis Rodino: 00:39:29

If they did, they would spend, but we need to show them first because if

Francis Rodino: 00:39:34

they don't see it, they don't do just like you, just like you said with your.

Francis Rodino: 00:39:39

With your strategy session,

Vit Muller: 00:39:42

Yep.

Francis Rodino: 00:39:43

you use that product to build authority, but also, you know,

Francis Rodino: 00:39:48

for, it's got a lot of good reasons.

Francis Rodino: 00:39:50

Get your foot in the door, get paid for it authority, but it also gives

Francis Rodino: 00:39:56

them clarity and confidence as well.

Francis Rodino: 00:40:00

And in that roadmap phase, well actually, sorry.

Francis Rodino: 00:40:04

before I get into the, the how's of the roadmap, the engine lever

Francis Rodino: 00:40:09

is the second thing that we pull on engine, helping them have the systems

Francis Rodino: 00:40:13

go from antiquated to automated.

Francis Rodino: 00:40:16

And then driving that, that race car of a business forward, helping them go from

Francis Rodino: 00:40:23

invisible to irresistible, I call that the red method roadmap engine and drive.

Francis Rodino: 00:40:29

And within each lever, there's three core accelerators.

Francis Rodino: 00:40:35

We, you know, that we press to get that business moving in the right direction.

Francis Rodino: 00:40:40

One is market, market intimacy.

Francis Rodino: 00:40:43

Understanding deeply who you're speaking to, their hopes, fears, dreams, desires,

Francis Rodino: 00:40:49

frustrations, extracting the language so much more than the demographics, but

Francis Rodino: 00:40:56

psychographics as well, and feelings, and importantly, gauging where they

Francis Rodino: 00:41:04

sit on a spectrum of awareness.

Vit Muller: 00:41:09

Yes.

Francis Rodino: 00:41:10

You know, so good luck.

Vit Muller: 00:41:12

a fundamental stuff.

Vit Muller: 00:41:13

I was gonna ask you, obviously you working with those corporates

Vit Muller: 00:41:16

back in the day, that's, you know, that's obviously all lot of great in

Vit Muller: 00:41:20

information as well that you learned there, experiences that you got there.

Vit Muller: 00:41:23

what are some of the things that it's not, not a lot of agencies commonly know about,

Vit Muller: 00:41:29

or, or think about when it, when it ge when it comes to figuring out your market?

Francis Rodino: 00:41:36

Well, they don't have the tools,

Vit Muller: 00:41:39

Mm-hmm.

Francis Rodino: 00:41:40

you know, I mean, I think good agencies and good

Francis Rodino: 00:41:42

consultants do this stuff, and I think doing it is the most important part

Vit Muller: 00:41:51

It is because everything trickles down for a minute,

Francis Rodino: 00:41:53

Definitely, definitely.

Francis Rodino: 00:41:56

And where this is where businesses fall down 99% of the time, is that they

Francis Rodino: 00:42:01

just go into ads and splash some money here and they build a website there.

Francis Rodino: 00:42:06

and you know, they don't really, they don't know what they don't know.

Francis Rodino: 00:42:11

So they don't do this stuff, but unfortunately a lot of the time they work

Francis Rodino: 00:42:16

with agencies that also don't do this

Vit Muller: 00:42:19

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:42:20

They just sell them ads, manage ads, and then here we go.

Vit Muller: 00:42:23

And then you can generate leads, but then they don't convert because it's,

Francis Rodino: 00:42:27

Yeah, exactly.

Francis Rodino: 00:42:27

Oh, wait, on that, on that point, I didn't wanna spend time on this, but one of

Francis Rodino: 00:42:32

the things that I talk about in my book is how leads is only 10% of the issue.

Vit Muller: 00:42:40

yeah.

Francis Rodino: 00:42:41

And that's what businesses want on the superficial

Francis Rodino: 00:42:44

level, is they need, they want leads and they don't understand anything else.

Francis Rodino: 00:42:49

So I won't kind of get into that, but that's where we are is,

Vit Muller: 00:42:55

definitely.

Francis Rodino: 00:42:57

kind of having a deeper conversation to get, to get,

Francis Rodino: 00:43:02

as you said, the solid foundations.

Francis Rodino: 00:43:04

Because if you are advertising.

Francis Rodino: 00:43:07

Especially startups and you know, businesses that have

Francis Rodino: 00:43:11

never advertised before.

Francis Rodino: 00:43:12

A lot of the time they are not necessarily speaking to the

Francis Rodino: 00:43:18

right people at the right time.

Francis Rodino: 00:43:21

And so, you know, if you are gonna have a hard time marketing, if you

Vit Muller: 00:43:28

Yeah, yeah,

Francis Rodino: 00:43:28

selling something to people who are problem unaware,

Vit Muller: 00:43:33

yeah, yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:43:33

You, you're going for it like decision and that's like the 1%, and you haven't

Vit Muller: 00:43:36

really, really set up the foundation that like a, you know, like the three step

Vit Muller: 00:43:40

advertising that you meant to do, like the awareness into, you know, all that.

Vit Muller: 00:43:43

Yeah, exactly.

Vit Muller: 00:43:44

Like lot of small businesses are like money conscious and they just

Vit Muller: 00:43:47

go straight for the offer, straight for the kill, and then like wondering

Vit Muller: 00:43:51

how come they're draining money away.

Vit Muller: 00:43:52

Right.

Francis Rodino: 00:43:53

correct.

Francis Rodino: 00:43:54

Yeah.

Francis Rodino: 00:43:55

So market message, you know, using that data to craft your

Francis Rodino: 00:43:59

core message and offers, your value proposition, your one liner.

Francis Rodino: 00:44:05

Your unique mechanism, and we have toolkits in a process to, to run through.

Francis Rodino: 00:44:14

And then your customer journey map.

Francis Rodino: 00:44:17

essentially mapping out all of the stages, what you're gonna say in every stage.

Francis Rodino: 00:44:24

You know how you're gonna turn those people from people that don't

Francis Rodino: 00:44:27

know you exist, to people that know you exist, and then consider

Francis Rodino: 00:44:31

you then take action and buy.

Francis Rodino: 00:44:33

and sometimes, like, you know, this, this is relevant for any

Francis Rodino: 00:44:37

business, even a plumber, right?

Francis Rodino: 00:44:41

And mo, but, but the thing is that in an emergency situation, that map, that

Francis Rodino: 00:44:47

customer journey can be very, very quick.

Francis Rodino: 00:44:51

You need something, you buy it done.

Francis Rodino: 00:44:54

Customer journey, you have a problem, you find a solution.

Francis Rodino: 00:44:58

However.

Francis Rodino: 00:44:59

Just because it's quick, doesn't mean they don't go through those stages.

Francis Rodino: 00:45:04

They just go through those stages very quickly because they're in

Francis Rodino: 00:45:07

a greater state of need, right?

Francis Rodino: 00:45:10

You still have to show reviews.

Francis Rodino: 00:45:13

You still have to show authority that you're reputable.

Francis Rodino: 00:45:16

You still have to capture data and follow up and invite people to call.

Francis Rodino: 00:45:22

You know, there's, it's always happening, and whether you have a short or long

Francis Rodino: 00:45:29

sales cycle, it's always relevant.

Francis Rodino: 00:45:31

And so I think it's a mistake for any business to say, oh, I don't

Francis Rodino: 00:45:36

need this because people either need my service or they don't.

Francis Rodino: 00:45:39

They just call me and we sell.

Francis Rodino: 00:45:40

Well, okay, if you wanna just, you know, sell to the 3% of the market, fine.

Francis Rodino: 00:45:48

But what we do is we build systems Moving on from there.

Francis Rodino: 00:45:55

Your engine, which is designed to capture, cultivate, convert, leads

Francis Rodino: 00:46:00

into sales, you know, everywhere from how they interact with your brand, how

Francis Rodino: 00:46:07

you capture the data, what data you capture, in what mechanism, lead magnet,

Francis Rodino: 00:46:12

store, scorecard, phone call, report.

Francis Rodino: 00:46:16

there's a thinking process, you know, that can be, employed to make these

Francis Rodino: 00:46:22

work better, nurture those leads and convert them, and then ultimately

Francis Rodino: 00:46:28

drive that forward, reach more people through paid or organic methods.

Francis Rodino: 00:46:34

In this case, in the book, I talk a lot about paid ads and the different ways you

Francis Rodino: 00:46:39

can use paid ads to reach more people.

Francis Rodino: 00:46:42

Resell to those people through upsells, down sells, cross sells, and

Francis Rodino: 00:46:48

increasing purchase frequency as well.

Francis Rodino: 00:46:52

And, then refining the system through optimization and knowing the numbers,

Francis Rodino: 00:46:57

which very few businesses actually do, is like, how do you improve,

Francis Rodino: 00:47:02

how do you track the data and look at what's not working and make

Francis Rodino: 00:47:07

those incremental tweaks to do it.

Francis Rodino: 00:47:11

So this is the red method I outline.

Francis Rodino: 00:47:13

this is essentially the core content of my book Leads

Francis Rodino: 00:47:19

Machine and this is what we use.

Francis Rodino: 00:47:23

And, you know, when I sell, for example, you know, we have different names for like

Francis Rodino: 00:47:30

different niches and things like that, but you know, you can sell, each one of these

Francis Rodino: 00:47:38

areas can be a product in its own right?

Vit Muller: 00:47:42

oh.

Vit Muller: 00:47:42

Every single one of those blue ones even as well.

Francis Rodino: 00:47:44

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:47:45

Yeah, definitely.

Francis Rodino: 00:47:47

So,

Vit Muller: 00:47:48

it.

Vit Muller: 00:47:48

It's brilliant.

Vit Muller: 00:47:49

This is, again, this is, this is what gives people clarity and confidence

Vit Muller: 00:47:53

when they can see it visually.

Vit Muller: 00:47:54

You, you mapped it out.

Vit Muller: 00:47:55

And what I like about this model is that it's niche agnostic because

Vit Muller: 00:47:59

this is relevant for every single

Francis Rodino: 00:48:01

mm-hmm.

Vit Muller: 00:48:03

You've done, you've done your homework on this.

Vit Muller: 00:48:05

If you guys are listening to the podcast, you really gotta check it out.

Vit Muller: 00:48:08

You gotta see the visual.

Vit Muller: 00:48:09

So I, I highly recommend you check out, the YouTube version,

Vit Muller: 00:48:13

the video version, for this.

Francis Rodino: 00:48:15

Mm-hmm.

Vit Muller: 00:48:15

So that's the red method, and you, you unpack it in your book,

Vit Muller: 00:48:19

the Leads Machine, and it's available on like Amazon and everywhere.

Francis Rodino: 00:48:23

Yep.

Francis Rodino: 00:48:24

Absolutely.

Francis Rodino: 00:48:25

on leads machine book.com, it comes with a whole bunch of bonuses as well, as

Francis Rodino: 00:48:33

well as the book in a custom GPT format.

Francis Rodino: 00:48:37

So we create, we basically upload the book into to chat GPT, but also prompted

Francis Rodino: 00:48:44

it so that it's kinda ready for anybody to use and like, you know, design, sales,

Francis Rodino: 00:48:51

copy funnels, landing pages without you having to think of a good prompting.

Francis Rodino: 00:48:56

It's kind of just accurate.

Francis Rodino: 00:48:57

And so that's kind of a, a little bump on that.

Vit Muller: 00:49:02

No, I love it.

Vit Muller: 00:49:02

Well, I've got a bunch of questions that we're gonna segue into, but

Vit Muller: 00:49:05

since we are onto some resources and stuff, let me just pitch a little

Vit Muller: 00:49:09

offer for you to, the guys listening.

Vit Muller: 00:49:12

so guys, if you're listening right now, before we move to the next part

Vit Muller: 00:49:16

of this episode, I wanted to highlight something powerful that Francis is making

Vit Muller: 00:49:20

available just for you guys listening.

Vit Muller: 00:49:22

If you're a serious part, converting more lights, scaling your agency, and putting

Vit Muller: 00:49:26

your CRM to work as 24 7 sales machine, then you definitely to check this out.

Vit Muller: 00:49:30

Head over to highlevelexperience.com/francisrodino.

Vit Muller: 00:49:35

There you'll get access to his bestselling book Leads Machine, where he breaks

Vit Muller: 00:49:40

down the R.E.D. Method, his proven nine step framework to build consistent,

Vit Muller: 00:49:44

scalable lead gen. But that's not all.

Vit Muller: 00:49:46

He's also thrown an exclusive bonuses and ready to deploy Ghl Snapshot designed

Vit Muller: 00:49:51

to implement his strategies instantly inside your own high level account.

Vit Muller: 00:49:55

This is a rare chance to shortcut your path to predictable revenue

Vit Muller: 00:49:58

and AI powered automation.

Vit Muller: 00:49:59

So don't miss it.

Vit Muller: 00:50:01

Once again, that link is highlevelexperience.com/francisrodino.

Vit Muller: 00:50:05

Check it out and start building your own leads machine today.

Vit Muller: 00:50:08

And that's the pitch.

Vit Muller: 00:50:10

so couple of rapid fire questions.

Vit Muller: 00:50:13

In your experience, how has the integration of AI in marketing

Vit Muller: 00:50:16

changed the landscape for SMEs?

Vit Muller: 00:50:18

Can you share like a, it's a two step question.

Vit Muller: 00:50:21

Can you share a success story where AI made a significant impact

Vit Muller: 00:50:25

on one of your clients' growth?

Francis Rodino: 00:50:27

Yeah.

Francis Rodino: 00:50:27

well, I think already, you know, people are still a little bit

Francis Rodino: 00:50:32

apprehensive of using voice.

Francis Rodino: 00:50:34

AI in, in businesses, but when it, when it's done right with the

Francis Rodino: 00:50:39

right type of business and it gets the job done, it can be fantastic.

Francis Rodino: 00:50:44

And we, we just, we had a client, plumbing and heating businesses and their problem

Francis Rodino: 00:50:48

was they just wanted to have after hours and weekends, 24 7 responsiveness.

Francis Rodino: 00:50:55

And they just didn't have that before.

Francis Rodino: 00:50:58

So we built out their voice.

Francis Rodino: 00:50:59

AI, we used high level to do that, and it's very efficient.

Francis Rodino: 00:51:04

It, it works.

Francis Rodino: 00:51:05

you can, with the right prompting and integration with workflows, you

Francis Rodino: 00:51:10

can do some pretty, clever stuff.

Francis Rodino: 00:51:12

And so I think more and more people are, start starting to see ho hold on.

Francis Rodino: 00:51:17

This works very well.

Francis Rodino: 00:51:19

and you know, it's been, it's been a learning curve.

Francis Rodino: 00:51:23

Getting it to work right in certain businesses.

Francis Rodino: 00:51:27

But I think, you know, people are getting a little bit more accustomed

Francis Rodino: 00:51:30

to speaking with, AI voice, especially in niches like home services where

Francis Rodino: 00:51:36

you just want to book, you just want something you want to be listened to

Francis Rodino: 00:51:40

and booked and to know you're sorted.

Francis Rodino: 00:51:43

And so that kind of works really well.

Vit Muller: 00:51:46

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:51:46

Yeah, no, definitely.

Vit Muller: 00:51:47

It's brilliant.

Vit Muller: 00:51:48

And high level just released the version two last week or two weeks

Vit Muller: 00:51:50

ago, which definitely has, as a, has been a noticeable improvement.

Vit Muller: 00:51:55

if you noticed.

Francis Rodino: 00:51:56

in what, no, I haven't actually.

Francis Rodino: 00:51:58

So what, what has been some of the improvements of the V2?

Vit Muller: 00:52:02

so V2, faster response, less lagging, and a little more human-like

Vit Muller: 00:52:08

conversation still depends on which voice, you know, it's all, it always

Vit Muller: 00:52:12

comes down to which voice you pick.

Vit Muller: 00:52:14

Some of the voices are a little more robotic sounding.

Vit Muller: 00:52:16

and that might be an intent.

Vit Muller: 00:52:18

You might have a use case that needs to be like that.

Vit Muller: 00:52:20

But yeah, I mean, definitely a big difference between one and two, where

Vit Muller: 00:52:24

it's, it's doing less, less glitching, less looping and things like that.

Vit Muller: 00:52:28

So if you guys haven't checked it out, that is available now.

Vit Muller: 00:52:32

You just have to get over, head over to your agency level of,

Vit Muller: 00:52:35

of high level, go to lapse.

Vit Muller: 00:52:37

So agency level lapse, and then you control the subaccount because

Vit Muller: 00:52:41

that's the new thing, right?

Vit Muller: 00:52:42

So you could go in a subaccount lapse and turn it on there and you can pick

Vit Muller: 00:52:45

which accounts you wanna allow it, and then you gotta go into the account.

Vit Muller: 00:52:48

And if you already got a subaccount that you build voice AI in.

Vit Muller: 00:52:51

Then it's like a button to upgrade.

Vit Muller: 00:52:53

It's like a one click.

Vit Muller: 00:52:54

There's no going back on that one.

Vit Muller: 00:52:56

Just be careful what you do.

Vit Muller: 00:52:57

Make sure you create duplicate of that one.

Vit Muller: 00:53:00

And then one thing with that, one, you need, you do need to tweak

Vit Muller: 00:53:03

your, prompting a little bit.

Vit Muller: 00:53:04

Just test your prompts.

Vit Muller: 00:53:05

But prompts do work slightly different in V2.

Vit Muller: 00:53:08

but the upside is you're gonna have better sounding, better performing

Vit Muller: 00:53:11

voice AI agent, that's for sure.

Vit Muller: 00:53:14

So, yeah, I've been doing a lot of voice AI recently.

Vit Muller: 00:53:16

I mean, you're talking about those nuances.

Vit Muller: 00:53:18

It's, you know, it's, it's workflows, but it's also plugin like, external web hooks.

Vit Muller: 00:53:23

You can get really like creative if this stuff, recently we've been

Vit Muller: 00:53:27

doing some custom project for foreign industry where, you know, when you

Vit Muller: 00:53:31

speak to AI over the phone, it asks you for a zip code in order to tap into

Vit Muller: 00:53:36

an external database to tell you, a quality about certain, certain asset or

Vit Muller: 00:53:41

something, you know, back on the call.

Vit Muller: 00:53:43

And then.

Vit Muller: 00:53:44

Take action.

Vit Muller: 00:53:45

So it's really, really impressive what can be done.

Vit Muller: 00:53:47

it's no limits really.

Francis Rodino: 00:53:49

No limits.

Vit Muller: 00:53:49

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:53:50

so yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:53:50

Very, very, very good.

Vit Muller: 00:53:51

lemme see if there's one more question just on this.

Vit Muller: 00:53:54

so you've been featured on Forbes and Entrepreneur Magazine.

Vit Muller: 00:53:58

How has media recognition your business?

Francis Rodino: 00:54:02

Well, I mean, it's always good for SEO and

Francis Rodino: 00:54:05

authority and differentiation.

Francis Rodino: 00:54:07

I think, personal brand is important.

Francis Rodino: 00:54:10

We are very, you know, everybody's different.

Francis Rodino: 00:54:13

Everybody brings something unique, but not everyone know.

Francis Rodino: 00:54:16

The public doesn't always know that, right?

Francis Rodino: 00:54:19

So, it's been helpful to, to, you know, the, the exposure has been good.

Francis Rodino: 00:54:25

You know, same thing with the book.

Francis Rodino: 00:54:27

It's really just an exercise of, of putting unique IP out there, in the world.

Francis Rodino: 00:54:33

Because like in the age of AI and tech, and I think, you know,

Francis Rodino: 00:54:37

the bar to entry is very low.

Francis Rodino: 00:54:40

To get into this whole world, just watch some YouTube videos.

Francis Rodino: 00:54:45

Right?

Francis Rodino: 00:54:45

But at the same time, your experience and the IP that you've developed

Francis Rodino: 00:54:50

over a course of time, that's what's really valuable, you know?

Francis Rodino: 00:54:55

So being able to communicate that and put that online in a book on podcasts

Francis Rodino: 00:55:00

like yours as well, so people have the opportunity to see how you think.

Francis Rodino: 00:55:05

That's really important.

Vit Muller: 00:55:07

Yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:55:08

And it's another touch point, and it does, does job for you.

Vit Muller: 00:55:10

What it's, I mean, you hear it all the time and I a hundred percent trust it.

Vit Muller: 00:55:15

I believe it, you know, where, where's the best, best time you spend

Vit Muller: 00:55:18

is on building assets like this?

Vit Muller: 00:55:20

'cause you build an asset and it becomes evergreen.

Vit Muller: 00:55:22

It becomes your business card.

Vit Muller: 00:55:23

It becomes a new touch point that you can then also repurpose, right?

Vit Muller: 00:55:28

You got a book now, you turn it into an audio book, now you repurpose it into

Vit Muller: 00:55:32

like bite-sized chunks and then you got your social media sorted and, and

Vit Muller: 00:55:35

it becomes like a flywheel and cross promotes each other and, it's brilliant.

Vit Muller: 00:55:39

Yeah, that's one thing.

Vit Muller: 00:55:40

I, I mean, I don't have it on my, actually, strangely, I don't have

Vit Muller: 00:55:43

it on my to-do list, but the idea of having a book sounds pretty good.

Francis Rodino: 00:55:48

I didn't use AI to write it either.

Vit Muller: 00:55:51

I mean, I don't think you would need it with,

Vit Muller: 00:55:53

if you wealth of experience.

Vit Muller: 00:55:55

yeah.

Vit Muller: 00:55:55

I mean, what was your approach?

Vit Muller: 00:55:56

You just a lot of coffee and typing it out

Francis Rodino: 00:55:58

A lot of

Vit Muller: 00:55:59

taking.

Vit Muller: 00:56:00

Yeah,

Francis Rodino: 00:56:00

Yeah.

Francis Rodino: 00:56:01

it, it took, it took years.

Francis Rodino: 00:56:02

There was a lot of stop and start.

Francis Rodino: 00:56:05

but, you know, I just, you know, once a week would kind of develop the content.

Francis Rodino: 00:56:10

I, and I think, not to rush it is a strategy in itself just to not.

Francis Rodino: 00:56:18

Everybody wants everything right now.

Francis Rodino: 00:56:21

Of course, I want my wildest dreams right now, but in reality, I think it's

Francis Rodino: 00:56:27

just little things over time that you keep on doing that compound, you know?

Francis Rodino: 00:56:34

So,

Vit Muller: 00:56:35

And I thought also think even for yourself,

Vit Muller: 00:56:37

you then value it a lot more.

Vit Muller: 00:56:39

Because like, I mean, like you said, if you, if you spun, I mean we know

Vit Muller: 00:56:42

it, you get spun up a book in a day if you want it, just jump on chat GPT.

Vit Muller: 00:56:46

But would you value that work?

Vit Muller: 00:56:47

Would you feel like, you know, confident going out to a store and

Vit Muller: 00:56:53

like promoting it and all that?

Vit Muller: 00:56:54

I dunno, I, I would feel a bit of a throat if I did that for sure.

Vit Muller: 00:56:59

so anyway, mate, really good to have you on the show.

Vit Muller: 00:57:03

I've got these last couple of questions, then we'll wrap it up.

Vit Muller: 00:57:06

These are high level related, just rapid fire, quick questions.

Vit Muller: 00:57:10

First one, what about high level originally grabbed your attention?

Vit Muller: 00:57:14

Was it something specific or problem you were trying to solve?

Francis Rodino: 00:57:17

Yeah, I think it was, the, the really specific thing

Francis Rodino: 00:57:20

was just being able to have multiple sub-accounts and copy and paste the work

Francis Rodino: 00:57:29

that you've done in one into another.

Francis Rodino: 00:57:33

That was really game changing, concept at the time because we all know that building

Francis Rodino: 00:57:41

something for one client is a lot of work and a lot of cost, but all of a sudden if

Francis Rodino: 00:57:48

you can take that replicated with a touch of a button and not use other tools, wow.

Francis Rodino: 00:57:57

That was really, I think, the thing.

Francis Rodino: 00:58:00

That made high level, you know, a tool for agencies.

Francis Rodino: 00:58:05

it was a winner winning, winning USP for that particular problem.

Francis Rodino: 00:58:11

And I, I think it's an interesting question because

Francis Rodino: 00:58:14

did we know I, as marketers, did we even know we had a problem?

Francis Rodino: 00:58:22

It's an interesting one.

Francis Rodino: 00:58:23

Like remember because before, before using high level people were using

Francis Rodino: 00:58:28

Zapier and ActiveCampaign in Calendly and Twilio, I think like that, yeah.

Francis Rodino: 00:58:36

And at the time, I'm not sure we even knew that that was a problem.

Francis Rodino: 00:58:42

We just kind of thought that that's just how you do it.

Vit Muller: 00:58:46

I think this is one of those we didn't know any better, you know?

Francis Rodino: 00:58:49

We didn't know any better.

Francis Rodino: 00:58:50

Like, like was someone actually thinking, oh, I'm gonna build.

Francis Rodino: 00:58:55

An all in one platform and solve that problem, obviously.

Francis Rodino: 00:58:59

Yes.

Francis Rodino: 00:59:00

Because look what happened.

Francis Rodino: 00:59:02

But it's so interesting to think, you know, it's, it, it's fascinating

Francis Rodino: 00:59:07

to me where sometimes, you know, we don't see our problems.

Francis Rodino: 00:59:13

We just think our problems are status quo and normal, and then someone,

Francis Rodino: 00:59:18

something else comes along and goes, hold on, I've just fixed that.

Francis Rodino: 00:59:22

And it's like, okay, now I can't live without you.

Vit Muller: 00:59:26

Yeah.

Francis Rodino: 00:59:27

Amazing.

Vit Muller: 00:59:28

I, I have RSS feed directly plugged into my Slack to get updates

Vit Muller: 00:59:32

about all the updates that, you know, high level releases and there's almost

Vit Muller: 00:59:35

daily things, but curious if there's particular feature that you are like

Vit Muller: 00:59:40

really looking forward to and why.

Francis Rodino: 00:59:44

You know, there's so many features already.

Vit Muller: 00:59:47

Mm-hmm.

Francis Rodino: 00:59:48

Obviously they're going to build more as the technology

Francis Rodino: 00:59:51

changes, so I can't really say, I'm looking forward to one specific feature.

Francis Rodino: 00:59:58

You know, they're already building AI, so there's going

Francis Rodino: 01:00:01

probably gonna be more of that.

Francis Rodino: 01:00:03

it'll be interesting to see, I have heard through the, grapevine that the

Francis Rodino: 01:00:09

whole way you design funnels is going to be com completely re-architected

Francis Rodino: 01:00:16

to be chat-based, chat-based, you know, so people would just be like,

Francis Rodino: 01:00:20

design me a funnel for a barber shop of this color and here's all the

Francis Rodino: 01:00:27

information and this is what I want.

Francis Rodino: 01:00:29

And it just goes pr like lovable.

Francis Rodino: 01:00:31

Or, you know, we are the form design, you know, so we're kind of getting it into

Francis Rodino: 01:00:36

that place where the creation of these tools will potentially be chat based.

Francis Rodino: 01:00:43

And I've, I've heard, this is not like official news, but I've heard

Francis Rodino: 01:00:46

that that's gonna, that's on the cards for things like the funnels.

Francis Rodino: 01:00:50

So that will be interesting as things get easier and easier.

Francis Rodino: 01:00:54

But what, what's, what's interesting again about these innovations is

Francis Rodino: 01:01:01

how with every innovation that bar two entry becomes lower and lower

Francis Rodino: 01:01:05

and lower and lower and lower.

Francis Rodino: 01:01:06

And now, like, you know, people that never would've been in marketing are now

Francis Rodino: 01:01:13

in marketing because it's so easy to do.

Vit Muller: 01:01:16

Yep.

Francis Rodino: 01:01:16

And that's why I did, you know, that's why I focused on,

Francis Rodino: 01:01:20

methods like the Red Method because just because you can build a funnel with chat.

Francis Rodino: 01:01:27

Doesn't mean you're gonna grow a business, it just means you'll

Francis Rodino: 01:01:30

have a nice looking funnel.

Francis Rodino: 01:01:32

Right.

Francis Rodino: 01:01:32

So this is, I think, like the opportunity for businesses.

Francis Rodino: 01:01:37

It's not actually build me a funnel, a landing page, a form use high level.

Francis Rodino: 01:01:43

No, it's actually the strategy, the save.

Vit Muller: 01:01:46

Holistic.

Vit Muller: 01:01:47

Holistic approach.

Francis Rodino: 01:01:48

Exactly.

Francis Rodino: 01:01:49

It's like you are the Yoda, you are the smart, sophisticated,

Francis Rodino: 01:01:54

holistic strategy person.

Francis Rodino: 01:01:56

That's kind of, that's what I enjoy and that's what I

Francis Rodino: 01:01:59

think businesses really need.

Francis Rodino: 01:02:01

And if you can use high level as your tool, as your lightsaber

Francis Rodino: 01:02:06

to get shit done, fantastic.

Vit Muller: 01:02:10

yeah, yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:02:11

Holistic approach.

Vit Muller: 01:02:12

What works?

Vit Muller: 01:02:12

The same thing.

Vit Muller: 01:02:13

I used to be personal trainer, you know, I hear some of these advices, you know,

Vit Muller: 01:02:15

like you wanna lose weight, just diet.

Vit Muller: 01:02:18

And then like, well, that's okay.

Vit Muller: 01:02:19

So if I just diet, I'm gonna lose weight.

Vit Muller: 01:02:21

I'm gonna lose all muscle too.

Vit Muller: 01:02:22

Right?

Vit Muller: 01:02:22

That's not holistic.

Vit Muller: 01:02:23

So, yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:02:25

next question.

Vit Muller: 01:02:26

we have this segment called, the beef.

Vit Muller: 01:02:28

And this is basically discussing like a constructive feedback and on high

Vit Muller: 01:02:32

level to help improve the platform and give you, or any of the listeners an

Vit Muller: 01:02:37

opportunity to get some upvotes on a thing that you've put on the ideas board.

Vit Muller: 01:02:42

Is there any, any like a challenge or frustration that you faced with high

Vit Muller: 01:02:45

level particular feature recently that you'd like to talk about?

Francis Rodino: 01:02:50

Well, you know, I think it's just kind of improving

Francis Rodino: 01:02:52

its uptime and, scalability, which is really important.

Francis Rodino: 01:02:56

I know, you know, we have a lot of complaints about not being able to

Francis Rodino: 01:03:01

log in, certain users can't see this or that, not, and then, you know,

Francis Rodino: 01:03:06

bugs that appear and then disappear.

Francis Rodino: 01:03:08

It's constant.

Francis Rodino: 01:03:09

This is nothing new.

Francis Rodino: 01:03:11

Right.

Francis Rodino: 01:03:11

And it's kind of like.

Francis Rodino: 01:03:13

We know this because we know that high level, you get a lot

Francis Rodino: 01:03:17

more out of using high level and it's worth dealing with the bugs.

Vit Muller: 01:03:23

Yeah.

Francis Rodino: 01:03:24

But at the same time, you know, taking a step back

Francis Rodino: 01:03:28

and fixing that, you know, the, the foundations of the core product I

Francis Rodino: 01:03:34

think are really, really important.

Francis Rodino: 01:03:36

And I know they're doing it.

Francis Rodino: 01:03:38

They're doing it, but it's not done.

Francis Rodino: 01:03:40

You know, it's a work in progress.

Francis Rodino: 01:03:42

Never really been fixed 100%, like other solutions that just work consistently.

Francis Rodino: 01:03:49

So I know that they're conscious of a conscious of that, and we need

Francis Rodino: 01:03:55

to explain that to our clients.

Francis Rodino: 01:03:57

You know, when we get notifications from our clients that this isn't

Francis Rodino: 01:04:01

working or that isn't working, I.

Francis Rodino: 01:04:04

We know that they get a lot more out of it.

Francis Rodino: 01:04:07

You know, it's, there's a big gap between the times that it

Francis Rodino: 01:04:11

doesn't work or doesn't solve the job and, the value that they get.

Francis Rodino: 01:04:15

However, at the same time, we need to be more, robust and make sure

Francis Rodino: 01:04:21

that, you know, they, they don't have these costly downtime issues.

Vit Muller: 01:04:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:04:29

And I mean, yeah, like you said, they've got a team, they're working on it, but

Vit Muller: 01:04:32

also it's very democratic, unless you go to town halls, which is a bit of a

Vit Muller: 01:04:35

shortcut, but, it is mostly based on the up votes, through the community.

Vit Muller: 01:04:39

So that's what they focus on, is based on where the, and I think this is

Vit Muller: 01:04:43

just the nature of software, right?

Vit Muller: 01:04:44

Is where's the biggest bottleneck, where's the biggest pain point?

Vit Muller: 01:04:47

Where is people are.

Vit Muller: 01:04:48

So it's which one has got the most up force that will, that, I mean,

Vit Muller: 01:04:51

I, I, I can't imagine any other way.

Vit Muller: 01:04:53

How would you manage it?

Vit Muller: 01:04:54

I can't, like, that's why I would never want to have that many developers.

Vit Muller: 01:04:58

I mean, that's a, yeah.

Vit Muller: 01:04:59

Kudos to them for, for doing that, taking over that headache for us.

Vit Muller: 01:05:03

so yeah, High Level is awesome.

Vit Muller: 01:05:05

High Level is awesome.

Vit Muller: 01:05:06

But it's a software, like any software, it's technology.

Vit Muller: 01:05:08

So, you know, it's, that's, that's just your name of the game.

Vit Muller: 01:05:11

but if, if you guys have a particular feature that you.

Vit Muller: 01:05:15

You've posted on the ideas board and maybe it's not getting enough traction

Vit Muller: 01:05:20

and you know, there's many reasons why.

Vit Muller: 01:05:21

Sometimes it's just things get buried and oftentimes there are feature

Vit Muller: 01:05:25

suggestions or improvement suggestions in the ideas board they actually

Vit Muller: 01:05:29

do that actually have really valid, like they are actually solid idea.

Vit Muller: 01:05:33

That should have a lot more up votes.

Vit Muller: 01:05:34

But you know, it's just one of those link, one of those, it's one of those where

Vit Muller: 01:05:40

we didn't even know we had a problem.

Vit Muller: 01:05:41

But then you look at it, it's like, oh yeah, that's actually a really good one.

Vit Muller: 01:05:44

So anyway, so you can't promote it through the Facebook group

Vit Muller: 01:05:47

'cause they'll take a post down.

Vit Muller: 01:05:48

That's just how that works.

Vit Muller: 01:05:50

The only way is you kinda hoping that it gets discovered.

Vit Muller: 01:05:53

Here's me, I'm gonna give you an opportunity to get it discovered.

Vit Muller: 01:05:56

All you need to do is head over to high level experience.com/thebeef,

Vit Muller: 01:06:01

and you can submit your beef.

Vit Muller: 01:06:02

You can just fill up a form, audio link to the ideas, book the post.

Vit Muller: 01:06:06

if you record it on a voice, like a little voice file, even better, because

Vit Muller: 01:06:10

I can insert you into the episode.

Vit Muller: 01:06:13

You get a little shout out and more people will learn about your idea and, you know,

Vit Muller: 01:06:17

if it makes sense to everybody, it'll get more up votes and then we all win.

Vit Muller: 01:06:20

So that's the opportunity number one.

Vit Muller: 01:06:22

Opportunity number two is, three for three segments.

Vit Muller: 01:06:25

So this is, so you've already shared one success story there, Francis,

Vit Muller: 01:06:28

so I'm not gonna go back to that.

Vit Muller: 01:06:29

but for you guys listening, if you are established agency or if

Vit Muller: 01:06:33

you even just started, but you've had some really good wins, you

Vit Muller: 01:06:36

know, there's not nothing better.

Vit Muller: 01:06:37

Like just getting a bit of a validation of your efforts.

Vit Muller: 01:06:39

Bit of a. Recognition for yourself.

Vit Muller: 01:06:42

There's nothing wrong with that.

Vit Muller: 01:06:43

But also what you're gonna do is you're gonna motivate somebody

Vit Muller: 01:06:46

else to show them what's possible.

Vit Muller: 01:06:48

So it's basically 60 seconds short message, just your name, name of

Vit Muller: 01:06:55

your agency, and name of your client.

Vit Muller: 01:06:57

You don't have to go, like, obviously, you know, you can made up the name

Vit Muller: 01:07:00

of the client, doesn't matter.

Vit Muller: 01:07:01

But what, what impact you've been able to create for their business

Vit Muller: 01:07:07

or for, for, for their lifestyle as a result of helping their business.

Vit Muller: 01:07:11

Something inspiring.

Vit Muller: 01:07:12

You know, there's all these amazing stories that are not being said

Vit Muller: 01:07:15

that, that, that deserve to be, you know, to be known about.

Vit Muller: 01:07:19

So, if you guys have a story like that, I would much appreciate if you

Vit Muller: 01:07:22

head over to Highlevelexperience.com.

Vit Muller: 01:07:24

and there's a button there on the main page, Highlevelexperience.com.

Vit Muller: 01:07:28

Share your story and the actual URL is actually simple.

Vit Muller: 01:07:31

So it's highlevelexperience.com/yourstory, and you get to submit it through the

Vit Muller: 01:07:36

form again, little audio or video, and I'll plug you into the episode.

Vit Muller: 01:07:40

You get a little shout out for your agency as well, and you never

Vit Muller: 01:07:44

know what might come out of it.

Vit Muller: 01:07:45

There's a lot of other high levels listening and, you know, if, if you've

Vit Muller: 01:07:49

never been to like events, go to events by the way, you know, you go to a Level

Vit Muller: 01:07:53

Up summit, you go to SA preneurs and you'll be, you'll be, surprised how

Vit Muller: 01:07:57

many, big agencies are looking for talent because onboarding and fulfillment

Vit Muller: 01:08:03

is one of the harder things to scale.

Vit Muller: 01:08:05

You can do it better, you can do it more scalable with good snapshots, but

Vit Muller: 01:08:08

there's still a lot of them who may have started high level and actually

Vit Muller: 01:08:12

have a lot of sub-accounts on the back of being like an influencer.

Vit Muller: 01:08:15

But they actually don't have the foundation set up the, the, the backend.

Vit Muller: 01:08:19

So they need.

Vit Muller: 01:08:20

So, you know, share your story.

Vit Muller: 01:08:22

You never know.

Vit Muller: 01:08:23

Somebody might listen and they'll, they'll approach you, you know, more

Vit Muller: 01:08:25

about creating opportunities, guys.

Vit Muller: 01:08:27

So this is one of those opportunities.

Vit Muller: 01:08:29

Francis, your offer as well, just to highlight that again, just to give

Vit Muller: 01:08:33

you the shout out guys, head over to highlevelexperience.com/francisrodino

Vit Muller: 01:08:38

to, to get access to all the cool, resources that Francis is offering.

Vit Muller: 01:08:42

Francis, it's been a pleasure having you on the, on the podcast mate.

Vit Muller: 01:08:45

I appreciate you.

Vit Muller: 01:08:46

if, if there's one final piece of advice that you'd like to share to the listeners

Vit Muller: 01:08:50

right now, now would be a good time.

Francis Rodino: 01:08:52

Stay in the game.

Francis Rodino: 01:08:54

You only fail when you give up.

Francis Rodino: 01:08:57

Keep on going, keep on learning.

Vit Muller: 01:09:00

You're either learning or growing.

Vit Muller: 01:09:01

Yep.

Vit Muller: 01:09:02

Yeah, that's great.

Vit Muller: 01:09:03

Brilliant.

Vit Muller: 01:09:03

I love it.

Vit Muller: 01:09:03

Nice and simple.

Vit Muller: 01:09:04

Very effective.

Vit Muller: 01:09:06

Francis, thank you so much again guys.

Vit Muller: 01:09:09

Thank you for listening to today's episode on the high level experience.

Vit Muller: 01:09:12

I know I had a bit of a gut, but I'm back and I'm excited and I'm gonna share some

Vit Muller: 01:09:16

news later on in some of the episodes, so make sure you keep tuned, tuned in.

Vit Muller: 01:09:20

If you've enjoyed today's episode, then please share it with other fellow agency

Vit Muller: 01:09:24

mates and other high levels that you think would also benefit from listening.

Vit Muller: 01:09:27

For show notes, links and extra tips to help you grow your agency

Vit Muller: 01:09:29

or your SaaS with higher level, please go to highlevelexperience.com.

Vit Muller: 01:09:34

Thank you and have a great rest of your day everybody.